National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Cider, Perry, Wine & Mead => Topic started by: Will_D on October 16, 2013, 04:50:31 PM

Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on October 16, 2013, 04:50:31 PM
As we are getting closer to the mega-juice delivery here are my notes and thoughts on making cider.

There are options at nearly every stage. I will list the options and highlight my preferred choice. I am not saying it’s the correct option but it’s what I do!

CIDER 101

As soon as you get the juice you need to check the gravity and pH (if possible)

Last year’s juice stats:

Gravity(hydrometer) = 1.051
Gravity(Refractometer) = 1048
pH @ 13C 3.80


As far as the gravity is concerned you can assume that the cider will ferment out to approx. 1.000

So the above would yield typically 6% abv

Option 1:
Add extra sugar to boost the gravity and colour(if using dark sugar)
Do not add any sugar.

I chose not add sugar

Now the pH reading is all about Option 2 and 3

Option 2:
Add Campden tabs depending on the pH
   Recommended doses are:
         > 3.7: 3 tabs per gallon
   3.4 .. 3.6: 2 tabs per gallon
   3.1 .. 3.3: 1 tab per gallon

I chose to add 2 tablets per gallon Don’t worry all the SO2 will be fermented out!

You can then leave the juice for a day or so with no risk of natural yeasts starting up!
Also if you can’t start fermenting make sure the juice is kept cold

Why add the CTs?  One reason is just to boost the acidity and secondly to suppress the natural yeasts ( well both in fact)

Now we come to Option 3:
What yeast to use?

If you don’t add the CTs then you can use the natural yeasts present
If you don’t add the CTs then you can also add commercial yeast so you have a mix of strains

Commercial yeast you can use:
Youngs/Magnum Cider yeasts
Wine making yeasts like a chardonnay or a champagne yeast
Nottingham Ale yeast (recommended recently)

Or one I am testing at the moment: WLP-830 German lager (fermenting happily at 10C)

Last year I used the Chardonnay. This has the advantage that it usually comes with nutrient.

The brings us to the next option:

Option 4:
What additions if any?

You can add Yeast Nutrient to boost yeast growth

Pectic Enzyme (aka. Pectolase) in case there is any pectin present but this is less likey as there is no pulp (I think thats where the Pectin is)

Some blends may be a bit low on Malic acid so you can add some of that but it may be better to wait until blending in the spring

We already mentioned sugar

Fermentation

Initial ferment will be warm ( about 20C ) to get the yeast going. Then will go cooler ( about 16C ) until most of the initial fermentation has subsided then it will be outside for the winter at whatever temps we get.

Last February I had a look and proceeded with the next stages.

By now the cider should be clear, bright, flat as a flat fool and probably as dry as a very dry thing.

How to get if from here to drinkability involves more options Blending, Sweetning and Carbonation

Blending Ciders:

You may have different batches of cider from this year or even previous years, if so you can experiment with blending the juices

Sweetning the juice:

You can use the artificial sweetners – the downside is that they add no body and some of them can be detected on the palate

Use more natural unfermentables like lactose or malto-dextrin – these add sweetness and body

If use either or both of these then you can bottle condition as you would a beer

Adding sugars:

You can sweeten the cider by adding white sugar, brown sugar, fresh apple juice or reduced concentrated juice or fruit wines or extracts but then you MUST PASTEURISE the cider!

Pasteurising:

This is actually very easy:

Heat your cider in a pot/burco or whatever to 70C, hold at 70C for 15 mins and then you have pasteurised the cider. ( Note you can also do this to the original juice if you want to store it for drinking or sweetening or making cider in the spring)

As the cider is warming up I do the blending of the sugars and juices to the raw cider. The bit of warmth brings out the flavours nicely

Cool it with a copper coil if you have one.

The cider can then be bottled as still sweet(to taste) cider

If you want carbed pasteurised cider then read on:

Fill a corny keg, chill to about 2C and force carb it.

You can also fill bottles from it with a counter pressure filler.

Here’s to the cider season

NJoy


Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on October 16, 2013, 06:52:22 PM
This will be my first time brewing with this juice, what would be the best yeast for me to use and how much for 25 litres of apple juice? I have 50 litres coming so i want to do one drum more or less standard,not taking any chances. The other drum i am thinking of splitting into smaller quantities for a bit of dabbling? Any suggestions on this please ? BTW thanks for the post above, might be a good sticky ?  ;D
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on October 16, 2013, 07:17:20 PM
Got that Tube thanks ;D
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on October 16, 2013, 07:34:11 PM
Any suggestions on this please?

Beef it up with honey to make a cyser.

Add some mild spices.

I'll be keeping this pretty straight up myself for the purposes of checking out the juice quality.
I've only used supermarket juice up to now apart from a failed attempt using cookers.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on October 16, 2013, 07:34:41 PM
I have a 6l press but it's seized.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bogwoppit on October 17, 2013, 10:24:16 PM
You could also stop after option 2 and let it do it's own thing.
Beer brewers tend to have a fear of the natural yeasts, scared of ruining the batch.
My friends and I have always just used the natural yeasts and I don't recall ever having a batch go bad. If you talk to the cider makers in the UK they consider it sacrilege to add a commercial yeast. Most good winemakers in France use the natural yeast on the grapes in their commercial operations without any big problems.

Don't be afraid to go au naturel!

Bw

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on October 17, 2013, 11:00:16 PM
Quite agree BW - just presenting the options so new cider makers have a spectrum of info!

In the interests of research split a batch: 1 au natrel 1 commercial??
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on October 24, 2013, 09:30:17 PM
So what are the options for fermentation of the juice.
1 . Natural

Or

2. Campden tablet and wine/cider yeast

Pros and cons of both. What do both. What do people think.
Natural and authentic Vs controled.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on October 24, 2013, 11:19:38 PM
Really the jury is out on this.

At Cider Ireland some of the makers use the natural yeasys others don't!

The Campden Tabs are not JUST to inhibit the wild yeasts.

The addition is to alter the initial pH and inhibit the bacteria/fungii that are all over apples in particular the windfalls that may have been there for days!

Cider is a very "natural" product. For "natural" read "Elf 'n Efin" Safety standards do not apply  :)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: RichC on October 25, 2013, 05:34:12 AM
Excellent post Will!! Love the simplicity of it. I still have >20litres of the stuff that Ciderhead got us last year. I only added 1 or 2 campden tabs to the whole 25litres, I then added some champagne yeast. It's very dry(which I don't particularly mind) and it's cloudy. I also think the acidity is off. I want to bottle and carbonate by bottle priming. Can I adjust acidity now? Is there a target ph or should I just add malic acid and taste? Can I do anything to clear it?
Thanks!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on October 25, 2013, 04:31:46 PM
From Lars:

I want to bottle and carbonate by bottle priming. Can I adjust acidity now?
Yes see no reason why not!

As you are bottle carbing you may chose to use an artifical sweetner or lactose to up the sweetness to your taste

Is there a target ph or should I just add malic acid and taste?
I would just do it to taste. The acidity is needed to balance sweettness and alcohol.

Can I do anything to clear it?
You could try the usual wine finings either a single or the 2 or 3 stage as used in most wine kits
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on October 27, 2013, 12:23:48 PM
A handy episode of brewing TV about cider making.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tDP1ubIci8
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Jacob on October 30, 2013, 03:34:25 PM
For how long do you have to wait with yeast pitching after campden tablets were added?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: alealex on October 30, 2013, 03:36:41 PM
Thanks for that Will!
Enough info for first page article.
I'm all excited as I'm going to loose my cider virginity soon  ;)
Thinking of splitting 25litre into smaller batches to try different things including GRAF
Anybody tried this imaginary drink before?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bzfeale80 on October 30, 2013, 05:09:27 PM
For how long do you have to wait with yeast pitching after campden tablets were added?

In general you wait 24 hrs after adding campden tablets and/or pectolase before pitching yeast
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Jacob on October 30, 2013, 05:18:15 PM
For how long do you have to wait with yeast pitching after campden tablets were added?

In general you wait 24 hrs after adding campden tablets and/or pectolase before pitching yeast
Thanks !
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on October 30, 2013, 10:33:45 PM
For how long do you have to wait with yeast pitching after campden tablets were added?
'Bout 24 hours or so
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on November 05, 2013, 07:48:23 PM
Doing a bit of research and found this handy page.

http://www.sicilianosmkt.com/v/market/resources/Make-your-own-cider-instructions.pdf

 
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 05, 2013, 07:57:15 PM
For how long do you have to wait with yeast pitching after campden tablets were added?
'Bout 24 hours or so

Do you stand it under airlock before pitching, or do you cap it?

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Blueshed on November 05, 2013, 09:07:00 PM
a few questions

hope to collect the AJ in the next 48hrs, how long can I leave the juice or should I make the cider asap.

only have plastic FVs, are these ok. read somewhere that glass was better for cider.

how long will the AJ be in the FVs before I can bottle.

is it ok to prime the btls with AJ or use sugar, or cider only in the btl.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 06, 2013, 01:34:13 AM
JFI

The Apple Farm boys and girls ferment juice themselves(no for commercial sale)with no yeast added just natural yeasts on apple skins
They reported some failures over the years.
 
You can use beer to ferment your cider but its best to have a 50:50 juice dme mix with some yeast nutrient.
In this months Zymurgy (AHA periodical) a report list WLP 002 and 028 as two yeast particularly suited to cider fermentation and are 2 I am trying this year.
http://www.whitelabs.com/cider
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 06, 2013, 02:11:22 AM
I wish to extend a huge thank you to CH without whose tireless efforts on behalf of others group buys on this scale would be a lot more difficult, take a bow CH.

Ok now i will be getting my 50 litres of juice tomorrow but things have changed to where i may not be able to get to do anything with them until the weekend. is it worth the risk trying to do one of the 25lt drums as a natural ferment in a 33lt bucket FV ? If not i plan on dosing both with 10 campden tablets each and leaving until the weekend under a bubbler in two bucket Fv's.

The yeasts i have to hand atm are all dry yeasts, s04, us05, Vintners Harvest SN9 wine yeast.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 06, 2013, 02:30:26 AM
What you still doing awake?
Camden tomorrow will be fine for 24-48 hrs
Do you want a cider yeast?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Jacob on November 06, 2013, 10:52:23 AM
Thanks for the juice John! Bottled few litres y-day before put campden tablets in. Tasted lovely.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on November 06, 2013, 11:26:48 AM
A big thanks to John for this.

I am splitting up my juice as follows:

20 L will be pasturised to use later on.

40 L will be pitched with a Chardonnay Yeast and Nutrient

40 L will be pitched with WLP-830 (German Lager)

Both will be fermented outside - due to space and other restrictions

Will follow progress of the fermentation. At some point in the future (expect 6 to 8 weeks) I will rack off the yeast and leave again for maturing.

So good luck to all who set sail on the "good ship cider maker" for the first time and also to some veterans of the craft.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: MisterBurns on November 06, 2013, 01:22:01 PM
In general you wait 24 hrs after adding campden tablets and/or pectolase before pitching yeast

So do you add the Pectolase at the same time as the Campden Tablets?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: imark on November 06, 2013, 02:23:52 PM
Thanks to CH, Dempsey , IsMise and ColinC for the chain of distribution that delivered my juice last night. Much appreciated lads!

Maybe I imagined it but did I previously read that you could ferment in the containers? If so whats the procedure? Are you drilling the cap or just loosening it up a bit?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: shiny on November 06, 2013, 02:59:01 PM
In general you wait 24 hrs after adding campden tablets and/or pectolase before pitching yeast

So do you add the Pectolase at the same time as the Campden Tablets?

In the video nigel_C added he does it like this:

Campden Tablets____(12 hours)_______Pectalose_____(12 hours)________Pitch yeast
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 07, 2013, 03:08:41 PM
I just got my juice now, I have to say the blend is delicious straight off the bat. Looking forward to this :-) I'm already thinking I'll order twice this next year.

TT
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on November 07, 2013, 08:27:56 PM
+ 1 to it being damn tasty. I kept a little bit back for our little fellas and it went in double quick time!

I was also wondering if any one has read "Real Cidermaking on a Small Scale"?

I'm starting to wish I hadn't. >:( It tells me I shouldn't need campden tablets, or cultured yeast and it's pretty adamant about two things that didn't really compute:

1 - you must top your fermentation vessel right up to the top to avoid infection by airborne bugs (I'm hoping campden tablets void this)

2 - you can't store it cold until it's fermented because it will go sour because fermentation will be slower than the bugs (maybe they are talking about aceto here but I'd have thought lacto was more cold averse than yeast and brett too slow, and again I'm hoping campden tablets will void this).

Any thoughts any one?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 07, 2013, 08:43:24 PM
If you kill no wild stuff with campden it's probably better to leave no headspace. When was the book published? Sounds like 70's to me.  My 6 year old was annoyed that it was all being turned to cider.

TT
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on November 07, 2013, 09:07:38 PM
1999, but yeah there's a lot of other stuff in it that seems very old school. Lots of comments like "if you're a purist you won't approve of X" (X being something every homebrewer in their right mind does every time they brew).

We also got a lot of questions about why is daddy turning the apple juice into cider...
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 07, 2013, 09:35:31 PM
The Reinheitsgebot purists on the German forum took exception to me suggesting that we all use some form of chemical cleaner..... Hot water they say.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on November 08, 2013, 12:48:01 AM
Really? I wonder if lacto, brett and all their little buddies are more "Reinheitsgebot" than a wee bit of bleach and vinegar. :D
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 08, 2013, 08:15:01 AM
Germans are quite eco compared to us, in fact they invented it. They suggested boiling water was sufficient. 

Bloody autocorrect.

TT
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JimmyM on November 08, 2013, 10:22:19 AM
Howya lads... Id imagine this thread is very busy, thanks for the pointers will and thanks for the apple juice hault to ciderhead and shanna for minding mine...

However, this couldnt have come at a worse time for me - i was going away the night it arrived and i just got back late last nioght.
I couldnt find my camden tablets the night it arrived so it has been sitting in my fridge since Tuesday.
And now i'm away again tonight so i wont get to tend to it til tomorrow.

So - summary my apple juice will have spent tue-sat in the fridge.
I have camden tablets (somewhere)
I have yeast.

What should i do next?
I believe my options are
1. Camdenify it and add yeast a day later.
2. Take it out of the fridge and just bang an airlock and blow off, and let nature take its course.
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 08, 2013, 11:54:09 AM
1. Campden in hot water or apple juice asap
2. 24 hours yeast
3. Get your shit together! :) call me if you need any of the above.
You have also been reported to RSPCAJ

You can just leave it do it's own thing but you run the risk of having cider vinegar on your salad for the next 5 years
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JimmyM on November 08, 2013, 12:09:59 PM
1. Campden in hot water or apple juice asap
2. 24 hours yeast
3. Get your shit together! :) call me if you need any of the above.
You have also been reported to RSPCAJ

You can just leave it do it's own thing but you run the risk of having cider vinegar on your salad for the next 5 years

Yeah i know im highly unorganised.

When you say campden in hot water or apple juice.

What you mean? disolve the tablets in hot water or hot apple juice?? and add it?
Sorry for being a gobshite :P
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 08, 2013, 02:41:50 PM
In warm water or apple juice you know it will be dispersed, crushed campden just tends to sink to the bottom :(
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 08, 2013, 03:11:54 PM
And we're off. One pitched with pectolase, one without. I'm thinking of one as a Scrumpy of sorts and the clear one should be pasteurised, backsweetened force carbed and then bottled sweet and sparkling. This will then determine how I proceed on future brews.

TT
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: David on November 08, 2013, 03:22:09 PM
I have added crushed Campden tablets going to naturally ferment. Just wondering when to add yeast nutrient.

Thanks to every who was involved from purchase, to transport and the local depots.


 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 08, 2013, 03:27:53 PM
After campden but before yeast, don't use too much though, it will leave an ammonia taste behind, follow the instructions.

http://www.hvhomebrewers.com/recipes/brew/CiderMaking.pdf
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 08, 2013, 05:19:01 PM
I've not added nutrient, is it necessary? Will it not end up too dry with nutrient?

I never add it to my Lidl ciders.

TT
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on November 08, 2013, 06:45:39 PM
Hi there

Added crushed Camden tablets on Tuesday night and then on a Wednesday night I added a pack of youngs cider yeast but have not seen sign any sign of fermentation yet.  Should I be worried?

Shanna
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 08, 2013, 06:50:35 PM
@ Shanna what temp start fermentation, what temp is it at now? did you shake or stir to get o2 into it?
After 72 hours start worrying

One on far right is Youngs Cider Yeast and was sprinkled on to juice this afternoon and looks flat as a fart
All have had Campden, 02 injected and Yeast Nutrient
Middle 2 beer yeasts from starters.
The English ale looks like it has already kicked off

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/09/jujynu3e.jpg)

@Eoin taken from
http://www.cider.org.uk/part3.htm

The next addition is that of vitamins and yeast nutrient. These may be bought as such or may be added as thiamine and ammonium sulphate (or phosphate) respectively. The dosage rate is up to 0.2 milligrams per litre of thiamine and up to 300 milligrams per litre of ammonium salt. This is what was meant by 'amino nitrogen' in Table 1 of the previous article, and it is needed by the yeast to make protein and amino acids for its own growth. (This is not unlike human and animal nutrition - the yeast's carbohydrate or energy source is of course the apple sugar which is not in short supply!) Apple juices are generally very low in yeast nutrients (unlike beer worts or grape musts) and so your fermentation rate will probably be much improved if you add these. The fermentation is also much less likely to 'stick' or to grind to a halt before completion. The cider can therefore be racked and bottled sooner, reducing the chances of spoilage in store. On the other hand, it is undeniable that some of the finest ciders are fermented very slowly without the addition of nutrients, but the risks of failure are correspondingly greater. You pays your money and you takes your choice! Traditional cider-makers used to hang a leg of mutton or a side of beef in the fermenting vat to boost the nutrient levels. The meat broke down slowly in the acid juice, releasing soluble amino nitrogen which the yeast could use for growth. The supposed requirement of a few dead rats in every vat is a more colourful manifestation of the same idea!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on November 08, 2013, 10:03:02 PM
Sprinkled the yeast in but did not stir it in. If I don't see any movement by tomorrow will crack it open and try another pack of yeast and give it a good stir.

Shanna
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 08, 2013, 10:59:31 PM
Sprinkled the yeast in but did not stir it in. If I don't see any movement by tomorrow will crack it open and try another pack of yeast and give it a good stir.

Shanna

My advice, always rehydrate dried yeast. Your mileage may vary.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 08, 2013, 11:00:08 PM
Hmmm I might add nutrient tomorrow then.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 09, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
Cider yeasts are the only dry yeasts I use currently but I have to disagree in requirement for rehydrating.

Firstly I am a lazy brewer and I want to avoid steps where I can, rehydrating is another opportunity for potential introduction of infection in your bowl, water used or spoon.

Dried yeasts come with an excess for standard gravity beers and although there is a theory that you lose 50% in dry pitching there has been no research in support of this.

Danstar and Fermentis also suggest both methods on their respective FAQ,

I did use 2 packets of US05 for the SCD barrel RIS
And why not it's cheap as chips!

I think the reason I have never had an issue is as I sprinkle on top of large amounts of foam from aeration allowing the yeast to rehydrate before it comes in full contact with the wort.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Dodge on November 09, 2013, 12:31:05 AM
Anybody can follow what others do or what's the easiest. But there will always be a difference between making average beer/cider and excellent beer/cider.
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 09, 2013, 12:51:48 AM
You been at the fortune cookies again?

I always thought the forum was to share our experiences good and bad to help others?

Put your knob away and tell us how we can all whoop your ass in next years comp :)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 09, 2013, 07:24:02 AM
I decanted off 5 litres of this the other night when CH dropped it off( many thanks again btw), i say 5 but we got 4 in the demijohn. Anyway ots bubbling away great and smells good too. surprised it took off so fast au natural. The other 45 litres got dosed with campden ready for pitching this weekend, just remembered i may not have enough yeast nutrient. What can i substitute?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 09, 2013, 11:05:41 AM
I decanted off 5 litres of this the other night when CH dropped it off( many thanks again btw), i say 5 but we got 4 in the demijohn. Anyway ots bubbling away great and smells good too. surprised it took off so fast au natural. The other 45 litres got dosed with campden ready for pitching this weekend, just remembered i may not have enough yeast nutrient. What can i substitute?


With beer, you can throw a spoonful of old yeast into the boil. I'd suggest boiling some old yeast in some water and adding it.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 09, 2013, 11:18:09 AM
The yeast is very slow to get going on these. The a pectolase has already started clearing the one where it was added but no krausen yet... maybe it's slow against all that campden? Anyone else seeing a slow start? I added nutrient later last night too.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 09, 2013, 12:09:13 PM
Where did you get the nutrient Eoin? I don't think I have any but have to go to Tesco Maynooth shortly for petrol, so will check if they have anyway.

I have it ages Shane. If you're stuck you're welcome to some.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 09, 2013, 12:20:22 PM
I decanted off 5 litres of this the other night when CH dropped it off( many thanks again btw), i say 5 but we got 4 in the demijohn. Anyway ots bubbling away great and smells good too. surprised it took off so fast au natural. The other 45 litres got dosed with campden ready for pitching this weekend, just remembered i may not have enough yeast nutrient. What can i substitute?


With beer, you can throw a spoonful of old yeast into the boil. I'd suggest boiling some old yeast in some water and adding it.

TT

Eoin you meanold as in out of date unused yeast and boil that ? I have no trub ready ATM, damn meant to order some last time from HBC but bloody forgot.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 09, 2013, 12:21:59 PM
I decanted off 5 litres of this the other night when CH dropped it off( many thanks again btw), i say 5 but we got 4 in the demijohn. Anyway ots bubbling away great and smells good too. surprised it took off so fast au natural. The other 45 litres got dosed with campden ready for pitching this weekend, just remembered i may not have enough yeast nutrient. What can i substitute?


With beer, you can throw a spoonful of old yeast into the boil. I'd suggest boiling some old yeast in some water and adding it.

TT

Eoin you meanold as in out of date unused yeast and boil that ? I have no trub ready ATM, damn meant to order some last time from HBC but bloody forgot.

Use any yeast, it's just a good way to use old yeast. I normally throw a spoon in the boil. Servomyces from white labs is empty yeast hulls.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: MisterBurns on November 09, 2013, 12:24:09 PM
The yeast is very slow to get going on these. The a pectolase has already started clearing the one where it was added but no krausen yet... maybe it's slow against all that campden? Anyone else seeing a slow start? I added nutrient later last night too.

TT

Hey Eoin your not on your own I'm also having a slow start ...
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: imark on November 09, 2013, 12:35:42 PM
1999, but yeah there's a lot of other stuff in it that seems very old school. Lots of comments like "if you're a purist you won't approve of X" (X being something every homebrewer in their right mind does every time they brew).

We also got a lot of questions about why is daddy turning the apple juice into cider...


@ Shanna what temp start fermentation, what temp is it at now? did you shake or stir to get o2 into it?
After 72 hours start worrying

One on far right is Youngs Cider Yeast and was sprinkled on to juice this afternoon and looks flat as a fart
All have had Campden, 02 injected and Yeast Nutrient
Middle 2 beer yeasts from starters.
The English ale looks like it has already kicked off

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/09/jujynu3e.jpg)

@Eoin taken from
http://www.cider.org.uk/part3.htm

The next addition is that of vitamins and yeast nutrient. These may be bought as such or may be added as thiamine and ammonium sulphate (or phosphate) respectively. The dosage rate is up to 0.2 milligrams per litre of thiamine and up to 300 milligrams per litre of ammonium salt. This is what was meant by 'amino nitrogen' in Table 1 of the previous article, and it is needed by the yeast to make protein and amino acids for its own growth. (This is not unlike human and animal nutrition - the yeast's carbohydrate or energy source is of course the apple sugar which is not in short supply!) Apple juices are generally very low in yeast nutrients (unlike beer worts or grape musts) and so your fermentation rate will probably be much improved if you add these. The fermentation is also much less likely to 'stick' or to grind to a halt before completion. The cider can therefore be racked and bottled sooner, reducing the chances of spoilage in store. On the other hand, it is undeniable that some of the finest ciders are fermented very slowly without the addition of nutrients, but the risks of failure are correspondingly greater. You pays your money and you takes your choice! Traditional cider-makers used to hang a leg of mutton or a side of beef in the fermenting vat to boost the nutrient levels. The meat broke down slowly in the acid juice, releasing soluble amino nitrogen which the yeast could use for growth. The supposed requirement of a few dead rats in every vat is a more colourful manifestation of the same idea!


I decanted off 5 litres of this the other night when CH dropped it off( many thanks again btw), i say 5 but we got 4 in the demijohn. Anyway ots bubbling away great and smells good too. surprised it took off so fast au natural. The other 45 litres got dosed with campden ready for pitching this weekend, just remembered i may not have enough yeast nutrient. What can i substitute?


With beer, you can throw a spoonful of old yeast into the boil. I'd suggest boiling some old yeast in some water and adding it.

TT

Eoin you meanold as in out of date unused yeast and boil that ? I have no trub ready ATM, damn meant to order some last time from HBC but bloody forgot.

Use any yeast, it's just a good way to use old yeast. I normally throw a spoon in the boil. Servomyces from white labs is empty yeast hulls.

TT


The yeast is very slow to get going on these. The a pectolase has already started clearing the one where it was added but no krausen yet... maybe it's slow against all that campden? Anyone else seeing a slow start? I added nutrient later last night too.

TT

Hey Eoin your not on your own I'm also having a slow start ...
Me 3!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 09, 2013, 01:02:28 PM
Rockets they ain't

24hrs on From most to least bubbling
English
Youngs Cider Yeast
Edinburgh
Champagne 118
 
18 Degrees
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 09, 2013, 01:08:45 PM
Rockets they ain't

24hrs on From most to least bubbling
English
Youngs Cider Yeast
Edinburgh
Champagne 118
 
18 Degrees

Thought you were going to use White Labs yeast CH ?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: David on November 09, 2013, 02:38:41 PM
Put campden tablets in Tuesday.
Yeast nutrient in yesterday.
Natural fermentation starting to build up today.
While it is still slow you can hear the bubbler becoming more active every few hours.
Ooh the excitement.




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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 09, 2013, 04:03:22 PM

I'm stunned at how fast the pectolase has started to work, seen clearly on the right. I hope the yeast kicks in soon.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 09, 2013, 04:46:16 PM
@greg got some more juice elsewhere for that!


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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Danny(00833827) on November 09, 2013, 10:43:09 PM
i had no activity so i pitched again - used safale us-05 -
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 09, 2013, 10:48:37 PM
i had no activity so i pitched again - used safale us-05 -

Did it take off on the second pitch, or was that the first pitch catching up?

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 09, 2013, 11:10:47 PM
Patience Eoin, patience!

Anyone any suggestions for what to do with the empty containers? Seems like a waste to dump them..........

You could use them for long term wine conditioning ? Not sure what plastic they are so don't know.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 09, 2013, 11:29:54 PM
HDPE so no
Excellent chemical resistance tho


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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 09, 2013, 11:31:57 PM

i had no activity so i pitched again - used safale us-05 -

If your yeast was in date this wasn't necessary, apple juice takes ages to get going


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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 09, 2013, 11:45:54 PM
How long is the hdpe good for? I'm gonna try a three month ferment, I presume that's feasible? I only have one 5 gallon glass carboy and I intend to use it for a country wine shortly.

TT
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Danny(00833827) on November 09, 2013, 11:54:26 PM
not sure was it the cider yeast I had pitched (was harvested from a previous cider) or the lower temps in the garage - but I moved it inside and pitched again to be sure

Hope by the morning she will get going
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 09, 2013, 11:55:02 PM
not sure was it the cider yeast I had pitched (was harvested from a previous cider) or the lower temps in the garage - but I moved it inside and pitched again to be sure

Hope by the morning she will get going

I'd say you were getting twitchy.....

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 09, 2013, 11:56:53 PM
I think it's a lot to do with the campden rates.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 10, 2013, 08:52:37 AM
Still no activity, this is a slooooooow start. I put a temp strip on one of the containers last night. Evening temp was 21, this morning was 17, so temps should be ok. Hoping that this starts soon.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Jacob on November 10, 2013, 09:11:28 AM
Piched Notty on Thursday evening, still no signs of activity. Should I be afraid or keep waiting?
Second one on WLP started already ... Temp is around 18C
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 10, 2013, 09:14:19 AM
Piched Notty on Thursday evening, still no signs of activity. Should I be afraid or keep waiting?
Second one on WLP started already ... Temp is around 18C

I've used Youngs cider, I've never had a lag like this before.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 10, 2013, 09:32:21 AM
Is yeast nutruent absolutely necessary with these? My au natural gallon one of these is fizzing like the clappers ;D
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Damo on November 10, 2013, 10:10:44 AM
Eoin, Did you aerate enough?

I can see your fermenting in the original drum.  I would imagine Gregs took off because of the aeration when transferring into his Dj.

I added 16 crushed cambden's on tues night, 24hrs later I pitched youngs cider yeast with 20grams of nutrient.

36hrs later (friday evening), I had activity in 1 fermenter and 4hrs later they were all going well!

Damian

edit: sorry I meant Friday eve.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 10, 2013, 10:21:25 AM
Aeration might be my issue. I might add a touch of olive oil.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 10, 2013, 10:32:20 AM
Ok I'm thinking my seals are bad. I just opened to add a tiny bit of olive oil and there is activity.... Albeit slow, but I still added some olive oil to make up for the lack of aeration. I dipped a wooden skewer in the oil, knocked off excess then stirred that in.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 11, 2013, 01:16:49 AM
Day 3, all 4 bubbling like the bejesus now and stinking the place out :D
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 11, 2013, 01:20:32 AM
I moved mine into the fermenting fridge at 19c, I'll drop it to 15 once the bitter is done.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on November 11, 2013, 04:49:09 PM
Stinks alright. 
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: pob on November 11, 2013, 05:40:35 PM
Went into shed to check cider in brewing fridge, jaysus, dreadful smell of farts in there. Then I opened the fridge door, .... I'll get my coat
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 11, 2013, 07:05:51 PM
Mad healthy fermentation going on, Mrs CH isn't impressed tho and I have to admit it's catching me in the back of my throat:)


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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 11, 2013, 07:43:02 PM
Mad healthy fermentation going on, Mrs CH isn't impressed tho and I have to admit it's catching me in the back of my throat:)


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Is one packet of dry yeast per 25 litres enough ?
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 11, 2013, 07:54:59 PM
Yes!
Was it aerated?


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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 11, 2013, 07:57:01 PM
Yes!
Was it aerated?


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It will be am only doing it now  :'(
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 11, 2013, 08:21:22 PM
Rather than aerating dip a clean toothpick or wooden skewer in some olive oil and stir that in not a big drop, just a dip.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: shiny on November 11, 2013, 08:51:06 PM
Also it did a lap of Ireland in the delivery truck, got a good shake then too!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Tom on November 11, 2013, 08:56:11 PM
No bad aroma from the au naturalers I presume?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 11, 2013, 09:01:10 PM
I got jittery at the slow start and tried it. It can't harm anything.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 12, 2013, 10:08:49 AM
Wow, the house smells of cider this morning. Let's hope the fart smell holds off or I'll be in trouble.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Rossa on November 12, 2013, 11:25:32 AM
Sulphur. Fecking awful.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Garry on November 12, 2013, 11:28:36 AM
I think we should add the smell issue to next years Cider 101. Maybe a note saying "ferment outside in the shed/garage if possible, unless you like the smell of fart."

My garage stinks with the last few days. I can't imagine what would happen if I was doing it inside. All the Yankee candles in the house wouldn't mask the smell!!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: johnrm on November 12, 2013, 01:31:49 PM
My missus called and mentioned a stench in the house today.
"It will be worth it!" I told her.

Need to buy flowers now, dammit.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on November 12, 2013, 01:43:02 PM
After three days of inactivity I cracked open the fermenter and gave it a 10 minute stir. I also added a 2nd pack of youngs cider yeast and moved it to a warmer room. Finally on Sunday night the fermentation started and now its going great guns. No bad smell yet of farts or other.

Shanna
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 12, 2013, 02:23:13 PM
I'd not describe the smell in the house as bad, just pervasive..... It's actually quite a nice smell of fermenting apples.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: irish_goat on November 12, 2013, 06:13:54 PM
California Ale yeast gives off an awful fart/rotten egg smell in the starter. Nearly chucked it until I read online that it was normal.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 12, 2013, 07:27:07 PM
Once you does this stuff with campden at 10-15 tabs per drum how long will it keep until you have to pitch the yeast ?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 12, 2013, 08:03:17 PM
Not sure I like the sound of that question
You are creating an environment where you are suppressing natural in favour of your own, for god sake dose! I even gave you the packets!!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 12, 2013, 08:24:00 PM
Not sure I like the sound of that question
You are creating an environment where you are suppressing natural in favour of your own, for god sake dose! I even gave you the packets!!

Just pitched into both FV's, used EC-1118 in the 25 ltr batch and SN-9 in the 20 ltr batch. Sorry CH but i wanted to keep the young's for something else and i wanted to try that SN9 again after the great rwesults i got last time. Added pectolase to both about 4 tsp in each.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 12, 2013, 08:31:46 PM
I would have got you another one! :D
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 12, 2013, 08:39:25 PM
I would have got you another one! :D

Many thanks CH, i have been wanting to try it on a cider anyway so all good.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: johnrm on November 12, 2013, 10:29:18 PM
Sulphur/Eggs is what I've got going on.
I keep telling herself to put the dog out...
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Flathead on November 17, 2013, 11:02:29 AM
Hi Will

I have a gallon of cider on at present. We had some surplus Lidl cloudy apple juice so I got enough for 4 litres, added some raisins, cranberries and cold tea plus enough sweetened water to make up the gallon and its bubbling away in a demijohn at present. OG was 1050. I used a Coopers beer yeast I had left over from a beer kit.  I'd like to bottle it and use it at Christmas. Is that too ambitious ?  If its too sharp, I was going to add lactose and a half spoonful of dextrose for carbonation at the bottling stage. Any advice welcome please.

Also, I read about pasteurising in the bottle by dunking bottles into 75C water for 10 minutes but I don't think that's necessary if I'm going to offer my product for consumption on Christmas Day.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 18, 2013, 12:53:17 AM
FH start a new thread in Cider section with your question?


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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 18, 2013, 01:00:13 AM


(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/09/jujynu3e.jpg)



Day 11 in the BIg Brother House

Still happily bubbling away, very obvious colour difference now.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/18/a5e4ydu7.jpg)




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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on November 18, 2013, 01:17:39 AM
Is that still primary CH ?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 18, 2013, 01:24:46 AM
Yep, can you see all the sh1t on the bottom, another week or 2 then into secondary, and 4-6 weeks in secondary before 6-8 months in teritary
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JimmyM on November 19, 2013, 02:32:56 PM
1. Campden in hot water or apple juice asap
2. 24 hours yeast
3. Get your shit together! :) call me if you need any of the above.
You have also been reported to RSPCAJ

You can just leave it do it's own thing but you run the risk of having cider vinegar on your salad for the next 5 years

Yeah i know im highly unorganised.

When you say campden in hot water or apple juice.

What you mean? disolve the tablets in hot water or hot apple juice?? and add it?
Sorry for being a gobshite :P

Iknow im gonna get in trouble here... BUT
Imagine i had a mate who still hasnt done anything with his apple juice i.e. - its still sitting in the fridge in the same state it was delivered in.
What can he do at this stage?
Take it out stick an airlock in and hope for the best - is that an option? Or should he sink it?
Or does anyone wanna adopt it?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Damo on November 19, 2013, 02:37:11 PM
Hold on there Jimmy!

Tell this mate of yours to stick an airlock on it.

I'd adopt it for him if he doesn't want to take a chance!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 19, 2013, 02:46:17 PM
I'd tell your mate to taste it, is it fizzy? Is it rank?

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 19, 2013, 02:56:07 PM
Hold on there Jimmy!
Tell this mate of yours to stick an airlock on it.

just give me the €30 the next time and I'll give to 20L of cider in 6 months ::)

 +1, Is this the same mate with the STD or is that somebody else
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JimmyM on November 19, 2013, 10:59:07 PM
Tastes gorgeous actually!!
I was parching after coming in from football - Had a good few mouthfulls I was gonna keep drinking it but i had notions of it giving me the 2 bob bits

So will i just drill a hole in the lid and bang an airlock in?
I cant find my campden tablets .... but i have cider yeast - will i put the yeast in when it gets up to room temp? or will i just leave it.
How long willit be good for in the container it came in? (ive no demis - i have cornies- but not to hand and tonight is the only time ill have a few minutes to tend to this)
Last question - is there a chance of this thing going mental - do i need a blow off tube?

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: johnrm on November 19, 2013, 11:13:23 PM
+1, Is this the same mate with the STD or is that somebody else
Don't you mean STC?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Damo on November 19, 2013, 11:14:51 PM
Ha!
Jimmy breaks d'mould

You can do all or any of those suggestions.

The natural yeast will have started work already, even in the fridge..

It's up to you,  If you campden it it will knock back whats happened so far (good or bad).
au-natural cider can be great, juice wants to be cider!

Do you have a spare clean fermentor? you could sulphite it, transfer and add yeast+ nutrient (optional).

It wont go nuts, 2-3" of head space will be fine if you leave it as is.

good luck


sorry, forgot to say: 3-4wks in plastic, then into glass or stainless(corney)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JimmyM on November 19, 2013, 11:23:08 PM
grand job damo thats a great answer - cos it requires me doing as little as possible - drilling cap - sanitising it and the airlock and forgetting about it for 3 weeks. Cheers
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Damo on November 19, 2013, 11:29:54 PM
Hang on, don't take my word for it.

I'm only spoofin! ;D

Wait till CH or Will D gets a hold of ya! ::)

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on November 19, 2013, 11:36:35 PM
Is it normal for cider not to have a krausen?

I've two gallon containers with just the juice in them and while there's lots of yeast in the bottom and their fizzing / bubbling away the gunk on top was very thin and disappeared very quickly.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Damo on November 19, 2013, 11:43:50 PM
I wouldn't worry

Yeast on the bottom, fizzing away. Its fine.

Time will tell, natural fermentation can be a bit of a lottery!

I'm kinda sorry I didn't leave 1 of mine to do it's own thing.  Maybe next year.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 19, 2013, 11:49:34 PM
I see our substitute engineer answered your question

+1 on everthing Damo said

There is a commercial brewer that ferments his trial adjuncts in those drums and just lets off every couple of days or so

No blow offs ever required for cider.
My cider yeast is still plopping by beers have almost finished
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JimmyM on November 20, 2013, 10:41:24 AM
 

There is a commercial brewer that ferments his trial adjuncts in those drums and just lets off every couple of days or so

Thats what i decided to do - even less work.
Its out of the fridge now and im not even going to drill for an airlock. I'll leave the lid slightly loose and open it every couple of days transfer to cornies in a few weeks.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 20, 2013, 10:54:58 AM

There is a commercial brewer that ferments his trial adjuncts in those drums and just lets off every couple of days or so

Thats what i decided to do - even less work.
Its out of the fridge now and im not even going to drill for an airlock. I'll leave the lid slightly loose and open it every couple of days transfer to cornies in a few weeks.

Weeks?
Try 3 months.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JimmyM on November 20, 2013, 12:02:01 PM

There is a commercial brewer that ferments his trial adjuncts in those drums and just lets off every couple of days or so

Thats what i decided to do - even less work.
Its out of the fridge now and im not even going to drill for an airlock. I'll leave the lid slightly loose and open it every couple of days transfer to cornies in a few weeks.

Weeks?
Try 3 months.
Alright wordsworth!
When i say transferring to cornies - i dont mean to serve... Its just to get it out of the plastic. Ive no demis
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 20, 2013, 12:19:38 PM

There is a commercial brewer that ferments his trial adjuncts in those drums and just lets off every couple of days or so

Thats what i decided to do - even less work.
Its out of the fridge now and im not even going to drill for an airlock. I'll leave the lid slightly loose and open it every couple of days transfer to cornies in a few weeks.

Weeks?
Try 3 months.
Alright wordsworth!
When i say transferring to cornies - i dont mean to serve... Its just to get it out of the plastic. Ive no demis

Sorry for brevity, I'm on mobile.

Fair enough, you're not transferring for serving.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JimmyM on November 20, 2013, 12:32:35 PM
 no probs i appreciate the guidance
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Dunkel on November 20, 2013, 12:47:06 PM
Presuming the cider will have finished fermenting in another week or so (mine was at 1001 yesterday), could I just bottle and leave for six months? I've no glass/corney storage either.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 20, 2013, 12:48:55 PM
I'm leaving mine in the original containers. I don't think anything significant can happen in ten weeks in plastic

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Danny(00833827) on November 20, 2013, 03:56:39 PM
mine will mostly be 15L in a plastic vessel but will also fill two DJ's - so i plan on comparing the two and so testing the glass vs plastic theory
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 20, 2013, 04:00:18 PM
mine will mostly be 15L in a plastic vessel but will also fill two DJ's - so i plan on comparing the two and so testing the glass vs plastic theory

Plastic is oxygen permeable for long term storage. I don't consider this long term, not compared to wine in any case.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 20, 2013, 04:00:25 PM
Double post.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Danny(00833827) on November 20, 2013, 04:07:26 PM
true, but wonder if there is something to be said even about short term storage in plastic - like coke from a plastic bottle vs a can, lots of people claim a difference  - milk from one of those plastic two liter's is never the same as from a carton or bottle.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 20, 2013, 04:13:54 PM
true, but wonder if there is something to be said even about short term storage in plastic - like coke from a plastic bottle vs a can, lots of people claim a difference  - milk from one of those plastic two liter's is never the same as from a carton or bottle.

To really test that you'd need your Apple juice delivered in glass....

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on November 20, 2013, 08:51:24 PM
Presuming the cider will have finished fermenting in another week or so (mine was at 1001 yesterday), could I just bottle and leave for six months? I've no glass/corney storage either.

Was wondering about this as well.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Dunkel on November 20, 2013, 09:04:47 PM
So why can't I prime with say 5 grams/litre of dextrose or sucrose, and backsweeten with say 1.5 g/l of Splenda (these would be my normal levels with turbo cider) and bottle?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 20, 2013, 09:08:07 PM
So why can't I prime with say 5 grams/litre of dextrose or sucrose, and backsweeten with say 1.5 g/l of Splenda (these would be my normal levels with turbo cider) and bottle?


You can, no one said you can't, if you can stomach sweetener then fire away, I can't take them myself.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 20, 2013, 09:26:52 PM
Try some stevia for backsweetening

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Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 23, 2013, 03:06:55 AM


Day 15

Beer yeasts are both 1.004 or 6.3%
Cider yeast is 1.001 or 6.75%, it looks like cider is pretty much finished and may drop a point or 2 over next 6 months.
Not sure how much further beer will go if any.
Although it's very early on,
beer yeast have less tannin much smoother profile, especially 002 and it's stands out by a country mile as being much easier on the palette.


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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on November 23, 2013, 11:48:52 AM
Reply #147 on: Today at 03:06:55 am
Will be re-naming you SleepyHead. 03:06 FFS!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on November 23, 2013, 11:54:29 AM
I was was just back from clubbin.
Besides somebody has to do nightshift now that LE is back on days;)


Bored off my tits at Sat morning hockey
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: MisterBurns on November 28, 2013, 11:51:53 AM
Ok so I have a Hydrometer question

Both batches showed a reading of in and around 1.004, when checked again a couple of days later both showing same however I got distracted after taking second reading and came back 30 mins later - hydrometer is reading 1.032. Checked second batch again and same thing starts at 1.004 holds for a few minutes then decides to pop up to around 1.032 …….. So is the real reading 1.004 or 1.03 – both batches were slow to start for first couple of days (Cider Yeast and WLP002) and then took off like rockets bubbling away constantly for 10/12 days then dying down so I can’t figure that they’d only be down to 1.032??
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on November 28, 2013, 12:45:26 PM
Spin the hydrometer, gas bubbles might be collecting on the hydrometer and buoying it up and giving a false reading.

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Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JD on November 28, 2013, 02:05:27 PM
Almost certainly it's down to the gas bubbles. The fermenting must is full of dissolved CO2 that will nucleate onto the hydrometer surface if left sitting in the sample for any length of time. You need to get rid of any bubbles to get a valid reading. Spinning is one way if there's only a few bubbles about. If there is a lot of bubbles it may require degassing the sample by agitation before taking a reading.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bogwoppit on December 02, 2013, 09:58:57 AM
Natural fermentation started at the weekend, yay!!

Only another 9 months to wait til bottling now  :)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on December 02, 2013, 09:55:02 PM
Just checked my cider this evening and the gravity read 1.001. Did not taste bad but did not really taste of anything nice at this stage.  One thing I did notice was some small amounts of white material floating in suspension in the liquid. Was wondering if this is a sign of infection or just the remnants of apple pulp?

Shanna
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on December 02, 2013, 10:01:58 PM
I had biggish white flakes on top of one batch over the weekend and the cider didn't taste any the better for it so I zapped it with 2 campden tablet (to a gallon).

The cidermaking book I have (which might be a bit dated) says that white flakes are likely a Candida infection.

Mind one of my other batches has tiny white specks just above the cider line and it seems ok.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on December 03, 2013, 10:12:54 PM
Hygiene girls!

Still in primary, all coming out tomorrow

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/04/ede2uper.jpg)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on December 03, 2013, 10:18:39 PM
Hygiene girls!

 ::)
Whatever. I forgot to mention it was one of two 1 gallon batches I did without adding any cultured yeast.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on December 03, 2013, 10:31:03 PM
We have said from the start you can naturally ferment with nothing added, but it's potentially a big risk, a bit like sleeping around, you may get lucky, you may get an infection
@ Shanna pics please for embarrassing ciders, where Dr Will and Dr Ch will have a prod at?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on December 03, 2013, 10:36:59 PM
I saw that - and that's why I split 3 ways. 1 with Notty (ok), 1 natural that seems ok (yay!) and 1 natural that I'm not so sure about. >:(

It's all good though. I knew what the risks were!

My Christmas pudding recipe calls for 100 mls of cider so it was great to be able to use me own!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on December 03, 2013, 10:45:59 PM
It may still be ok
If it gets a hold rack from underneath you may still be able to save some of it
Don't throw out remainder either as you sir have Cider Vinegar which is really really nice on salad
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on December 03, 2013, 11:11:46 PM
The flakey one looks ok now, and the demijohns are on the way. It looked a bit like the first one on this page here - except nowhere near as bad.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/post-your-infection-71400/index12.html

Big fan of everything about cider vinegar - except the price. >:D
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on December 03, 2013, 11:29:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqvENVPhWuQ

Crikey!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on December 04, 2013, 06:51:46 PM
We have said from the start you can naturally ferment with nothing added, but it's potentially a big risk, a bit like sleeping around, you may get lucky, you may get an infection
@ Shanna pics please for embarrassing ciders, where Dr Will and Dr Ch will have a prod at?

Can't comment about sleeping around but I put the cider in on top of a previously cleaned plastic fermenter. This involves soaking in mix of hot water and chlorine based cleaner wvp for approx 30 minutes.  Fermenter was rinsed with clean water and then given a 2 minutes rinse with starSan. The cider was mixed in with 16 Camden tablets.  I added 1 pack of cider yeast 24 hours after initial transfer to fermenter. I had no activity for three days and had addeda 2nd pack of yeast and also stirred it with previously cleaned plastic spoon for 10 minutes.  Going to transfer it to a stainless steel keg at the weekend and will grab a picture then. Does not smell or taste off per se but not really nice v either.

Shanns
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on December 04, 2013, 07:07:14 PM
Just transferred back to the original drum they cider came in.
Very clear already but a fair amount of farts in it.
I'm planning on just leaving the drum in my folks greenhouse till about march. My question is should I fit an air lock or will the sulfur just dissipate all sealed up. 
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on December 04, 2013, 07:59:29 PM
Cheers tube.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on December 04, 2013, 08:03:47 PM
Fit an airlock to allow it to off-gas at the least. Decanting risks oxidation.

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on December 04, 2013, 08:28:19 PM
Minimise transfers and try and put them in a container with no headspace or flushed with co2
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on December 04, 2013, 09:05:55 PM
Cheers John. Squeezed as much air our but didn't flush with co2. A job for tomorrow.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on December 04, 2013, 09:26:02 PM
Planning to transfer my 25 litres of cider in to a 50 litre stainless steel keg that I have removed the spear from. I still have the original collar for the keg that I can just about fit a bubbler in to. I plan to inject some Co2 in to the keg relying on the fact that Co2 is heavier than air to help flush the headspace of air. Anybody see any problem with this?

Shanna
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on December 07, 2013, 01:45:49 PM
Getting ready to transfer my cider into secondary for cold crashing. Can we use the original containers the apple juice came in for long term secondary storage of the cider? Not sure what plastic they are made of, also have the normal 33lt fermenting buckets or a couple of 19lt water bottles. Which one of these would be best ?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on December 07, 2013, 02:47:02 PM
Don't know what type of plastic the original apple juice drums are made of as there are no markings on them i can see. The water bottles are marked with a 7 inisde a triangle which the "Plastic Professor" tells me is food grade but NOT for storage of beer or cider or wine any longer than 4 weeks maximum. The FV buckets are ok for long term storage but i was hoping not to be tying them up that long. I want to condition until the new year, around six months time i am thinking. I will hopefully have my chest freezer and stc 1000 sorted soon and the cider is going in there then for crash chilling and storage.

I don't currently have glass carboys as i am waiting to see if the GB goes ahead, if it does the cider will be going into those.
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on December 07, 2013, 02:59:27 PM
Ok just to repeat myself and others :) you need to store in glass or stainless filled to the top or with a co2 blanket.
The drums are made from HDPE the buckets PP(random or Homopolymer) these all have lousy oxygen permeation properties and none of these are good for greater than 3-4 months.
2l Pet coke bottles would be better or If your cider has sufficiently cleared and you have no carboy or stainless into glass bottles  .
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on December 07, 2013, 03:12:11 PM
Ok just to repeat myself and others :) you need to store in glass or stainless filled to the top or with a co2 blanket.
The drums are made from HDPE the buckets PP(random or Homopolymer) these all have lousy oxygen permeation properties and none of these are good for greater than 3-4 months.
2l Pet coke bottles would be better or If your cider has sufficiently cleared and you have no carboy or stainless into glass bottles  .

 :P :P :P I heard ya the first time, i have no stainless and no glass as yet. All i have are the water bottles and the FV buckets. My cider has not sufficiently cleared so i will need to cold store it for a few months first. I don't want to put it in bottles yet for this reason, i want it a lot clearer than what it is right now before i back sweeten and bottle for conditioning.

I heard ya on the glass CH but as you know i was waiting on 2 x 25lt glass carboys off the group buy. Since this has been pushed out probably until the new year would i be better to just get two of the carboys from homebrew.ie ? They are the only ones with them currently in stock and they will deliver.
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on December 15, 2013, 10:29:33 PM

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/04/ede2uper.jpg)


(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/16/japejaju.jpg)

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/16/edesu8a7.jpg)

Work kids and other messing about didn't allow me to keg these before today, even though they were sitting in my shed chilling, all taste great apart from the champagne yeast far right which tbh they all need at least another 2 or 3 months minimum, amazing rounded flavour from 2 middle beer yeasts and cider yeast just tastes thin by comparison!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: johnrm on December 20, 2013, 04:50:04 PM
Heres the Funk I had going on...
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: johnrm on December 20, 2013, 05:06:58 PM
In the pics above the skin is almost a wax, the round bits are like air bubbles, I'm guessing they are pockets of CO2 from the must.
I think this may be similar to mr_happys 'flakes' as this does break up if you move the fermenter.

20l batch, probably under-Campdened and under pitched this batch - Used Notty which had an accident.
Smell is slightly sulphur, but not off putting.

I syphoned off to a bottling bucket leaving trub and Funk behind.
I put 300ml into a 500ml Coke Bottle, added 100ml Apple juice and have force carbonated it.
A quick taste test and it seems acceptable.

I have the same white skin on a much smaller locally sourced batch in which I used Lager Yeast.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JD on December 20, 2013, 08:21:45 PM
This looks like the early stages of a film yeast (you say it breaks up if you move the fermenter. If it sank as a single unit it would suggest acetobacter infection). See http://www.cider.org.uk/part5.htm (http://www.cider.org.uk/part5.htm) for remedial action.
/JD
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Greg2013 on December 20, 2013, 09:04:25 PM
Some 45 litres of cider into my two new carboys which arrive today courtesy of Geterbrewed, smells fantastic. ;D
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on December 20, 2013, 09:31:44 PM
Yep, I'd say that's a film yeast. Is it in a carboy yet?

I had a second (of 3) batch go down with this. It seems, on account of no hops or boil, any oxygen near cider = infection. The old school book I have recommends storing in a carboy and topping up right up with water. I went with the "modern" approach of flushing the carboy with CO2and carefully racking my 3 - 4gls of cider from between the film and the trub onto 4 crushed campden tablets. Hopefully the sulphur will kill the thrush and the C02 will mean there's no oxygen.

I'd no idea how wussy apple juice was with infections compared to a hopped, boiled beer. Next year - lots of C02 and glass all the way.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on December 20, 2013, 09:33:02 PM
Bacterial infection.

It will taste fine now, but over time it will deteriorate. You might be able to pasteurise it out of it.

When you say over time it'll deteriorate, is that even if you stick it in glass, nuke it with campden tablets and drown it with  CO2?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on December 20, 2013, 11:01:38 PM
Cool, I thought I'd ask as I don't really know what I'm doing either!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on December 20, 2013, 11:11:21 PM
Heres the Funk I had going on...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHZswzk0424
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bogwoppit on January 02, 2014, 12:01:18 PM
It's taken a little while but the second of my 2 carboys started to ferment at full speed a few days ago.

I was contemplating mixing some of the juice between the 2 carboys as the first one started a few weeks ago and is still going strong.

Both had the same treatment of campden tablets so there is obviously some difference in yeasts populating the 2, it will be interesting to see if there is a difference in flavour.

They are due to be racked this week to take of the yellow crud that forms on the top. After that they won't be touched until August.

Bw
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on January 05, 2014, 01:20:54 PM
A bit of an update:

Fermenting outdoors with no temperature controll!

Racked off my two batches yesterday:

Chardonay Yeast and Nutrients: 1.007 Not bone dry, drinkable already, no sulphur

WLP-830 Lager yeast and Nutrient: 1.005 A little drier than above, drinkable already, no sulphur

There was a slight colour difference between them. Will wait a bit longer before taking a photo.

Filled up two 30 L fermenters to the top and combined the rest to settle in a 20 l fermenter.

They are still outside and will stay there another 6 weeks or so.

BTW: The pure juice sample I had took AGES to start - about 3 week of December!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bogwoppit on January 10, 2014, 12:23:27 PM
Just another update on the natural fermentation to show that it does work.

It's being stored in the wooden shed in the garden so is at around 7 degrees at the moment.

A very healthy amount of gas being produced!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Garry on January 14, 2014, 10:02:08 PM
Just checked the gravity of my cider, it's down to 1.004. But I forgot to record the original gravity! I'm sure someone posted it here but I can't find it  >:(
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on January 14, 2014, 10:18:53 PM
Think it was 1052?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on January 14, 2014, 11:13:00 PM
Will posted 1051, in the first post.
It will go more that 1004 if you let it ;D
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on January 17, 2014, 12:15:05 AM
Ok, I've learnt a lot from this cider making business and I think the stuff I've made is more or less drinkable (including the spontaneously fermented stuff) but I've 2 questions:

1 - how is the French cider in M&S 2%? Seriously is this the famous keeving or just industrial tricks?

2 - how is it the Longueville House cider up in Mallow is amber coloured whereas my one is pilsner pale, and how do the get it little bit sweet, whereas mine seems as dry as it can be?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on January 17, 2014, 12:22:38 AM
Ok, I've learnt a lot from this cider making business and I think the stuff I've made is more or less drinkable (including the spontaneously fermented stuff) but I've 2 questions:

1 - how is the French cider in M&S 2%? Seriously is this the famous keeving or just industrial tricks?

2 - how is it the Longueville House cider up in Mallow is amber coloured whereas my one is pilsner pale, and how do the get it little bit sweet, whereas mine seems as dry as it can be?

1 water is cheapest method
2 apple variety and back sweetened
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on January 17, 2014, 12:28:13 AM
Ok, I've learnt a lot from this cider making business and I think the stuff I've made is more or less drinkable (including the spontaneously fermented stuff) but I've 2 questions:

1 - how is the French cider in M&S 2%? Seriously is this the famous keeving or just industrial tricks?

2 - how is it the Longueville House cider up in Mallow is amber coloured whereas my one is pilsner pale, and how do the get it little bit sweet, whereas mine seems as dry as it can be?

1 water and pasteurised apple juice is cheapest method
2 apple variety and back sweetened
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on January 17, 2014, 12:35:46 AM
I'd read variety makes a huge difference alright.

We used:
Quote

50% Dabinette ( a well know cider apple godd flavour and good for Tannin )
25% Bramley ( fav. cooker - good for acidity )
25% Cevaal ( also known as Red Windsor or Alkmene - good desert apple like a cox's pippin - sweet honeyed notes good  perfume )

and they used Dabinette and Michelin.

You don't think the yeast has anything to do with it, or that they are racking early or anything like that?

The M&S stuff is quite nice in a sort of, not quite apple juice, not quite cider way. It's quite sweet and has a bit of body but has a sort of cider (as in rotten apples rather than sharp) taste off it. So I could basically making something like that by blending cider, pasteurised apple juice and water and force carbonating?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on January 23, 2014, 07:49:05 PM
Just a heads up to all of us cider makers:

We have a little competioin coming up  ::) please register interest on this thread:

http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,5477.0.html

We have cats for ciders/perrys/meads/and even apple wine

We welcome ciders from the group buys, Turbos, Kits, or whatever.

We also welcome meads/perrys/piders/etc/etc
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: MisterBurns on February 09, 2014, 02:07:24 AM
So I've decided it's bottling time ..... pros/cons of PET bottles with expectation that I'm aiming for mid summer for drinking. I have some glass bottles but majority of my empties are PET. Should I buy some more flip tops ...... ??
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bogwoppit on February 20, 2014, 12:17:16 PM
So I've decided it's bottling time ..... pros/cons of PET bottles with expectation that I'm aiming for mid summer for drinking. I have some glass bottles but majority of my empties are PET. Should I buy some more flip tops ...... ??

Sorry for the late reply, I've only just seen this now. If you're storing them for that long I'd be putting them in glass. You could just go to the local and ask them to save some bottles for you instead of purchasing flip tops.

I racked my cider for the frst time over the weekend, both are under natural fermentation.

The juice is split into two carboys, one is at 1.004 and the other is at 1.010. I don't plan on bottling any myself until about June or July.

Bw
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on March 02, 2014, 03:02:30 PM
Was wondering why cider had to be  pasteurised before adding sugar to taste.  Assumption is that the cider yeast converts all sugar to Co2& alcohol. Is there any way to prime like with beer for bittle conditioning?

Shanna
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Blueshed on March 12, 2014, 04:26:53 PM
going to bottle some of my cider tonight from the group buy. have a burco boiler and plan on 70* for 15mins and prime with 50ml of AJ for every 500ml of cider.

anything else i need to do ?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: LordEoin on March 12, 2014, 04:30:11 PM
why is everyone keen to pasteurise before priming? won't that just kill all the yeast and prevent carbonation? resulting in flat sweet cider.
I've only ever pasteurised after carbonation to stop carbonation and getting too dry
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Blueshed on March 12, 2014, 04:41:01 PM
why is everyone keen to pasteurise before priming? won't that just kill all the yeast and prevent carbonation? resulting in flat sweet cider.
I've only ever pasteurised after carbonation to stop carbonation and getting too dry

Because Will D said so  :D
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on March 12, 2014, 04:41:31 PM
Blue can you post exactly what you are doing as I read this as pasteurising the whole lot?!!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on March 12, 2014, 04:42:11 PM
What does he know   ;) :P :P
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Blueshed on March 12, 2014, 05:06:24 PM
i have put 12L of cider into my burco at 70* and added 1.2L of AJ to this. will keep it at 70* for 15mins then let cool before i bottle.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on March 12, 2014, 05:52:51 PM
Noo, ok lets walk through this.

You have maybe a small amount of yeast in suspension in the main part of your juice at the moment

Pasteurising everything you are killing everything.

Option 1
If you want more apple flavour you can pasteurise your smaller part B addition and put it in but to carbonate you need a sugar to feed your yeast to allow more fermentation and put c02 in the bottle.

Option 2
Just put fresh juice in the bottle with your fermented juice and yeast will gobble sugars in that, produce co2 but cider will finish dry as all the sugars are gone.
 
Option 3 for sweet or semi sweet
Is option 1 and or 2 by adding non fermenting artificial sweeteners such as splenda or similar to the bottle.

Whats you preferred flavour profile?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Ciderhead on March 12, 2014, 05:55:39 PM
GrandMaster Will, (who btw brought one of mine back from the dead) any additional thoughts?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: LordEoin on March 12, 2014, 06:14:03 PM
Huzzah! i wasnt wrong  ;D
there's an option 4, but i'm not going to endanger folks with shards of glass and hot water/cider flying through the air...
heating up carbed liquids in glass bottles is not a good idea unless you're sure of what you're doing.
just stick with the splenda.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on March 12, 2014, 07:09:58 PM
CH is absolutely correct. The OP at the start of this explains how to get sweet (to taste) sparkling cider.

Option 4 (from LE): I did not mention this as its a bit dangerous for us to pasteurise carbed bottles. If done ouside with the bottles fully submerged in the water bath could be done but why risk it!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on March 13, 2014, 02:28:47 PM
For anyone kegging the batch, a very simple option could be the just back sweeten with AJ and keep the keg in the fridge. If the kegger is set to say 7-8 the yeast is not going to be active enough to consume the sugars from the AJ. Even very slowly I'm sure most people would consume the contents of a keg before a temperature stunned yeasty could consume the remaining sugar.
Just another option ive been thinking about.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: LordEoin on March 13, 2014, 02:55:05 PM
if you're kegging it, you can just pasteurise the lot, backsweeten and force carb.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on March 13, 2014, 03:32:28 PM
Can you pasteurise in the keg? Eg sit keg in boiler and hold at 75 ish for 20 mins?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: LordEoin on March 13, 2014, 03:54:12 PM
i dont see why not, could also use stabilizer to kill the  yeast.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on March 13, 2014, 04:04:20 PM
Excellent Smithers. Just get my batch. It's been sitting in my folks greenhouse all winter. Time for a sample me thinks :)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bogwoppit on March 24, 2014, 10:40:29 AM
I racked off both my carboys this weekend, both have finished fermenting, one at 1.000 and the other at 1.004.

Had a taste of both and they are quite acidic, definitely won't be touching these again until the late summer in the hope that I get a good malolactic fermentation. If I see no activity when the weather gets warmer then I might get hold of a malolactic culture to give it a boost.

Bw
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Dunkel on March 24, 2014, 12:50:10 PM
The juice I received from Davy Pritchard has started to form a nasty-looking white film on the surface. I intend to rack from under this film, pasteurise the whole lot and then add some yeast back in.

i have put 12L of cider into my burco at 70* and added 1.2L of AJ to this. will keep it at 70* for 15mins then let cool before i bottle.

Is this hot enough for killing off all nasties? Of course, it will probably change the flavour.

Would a mixture of Campden tablets and Potassium Sorbate do a better job of stabilising the cider?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Dunkel on March 24, 2014, 01:06:48 PM
BTW, here's a picture.

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t78/kswalsh1/82b13fe8-b2fe-4a2f-bd9d-ec6c8bc2181f_zpsbf775ff7.jpg)

Film is broken up a little due to raising the cider this morning in preparation for racking. I have seen this before, many many years ago, but can't remember what it's called.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Dunkel on March 24, 2014, 05:06:44 PM
Having checked against images on the ol' googleweb, I think it's the start of a lactobacillus infection. The cider has fermented down to 1003; maybe a little more to go. The cider itself smells and tastes fine at this stage. Instead of pasteurising, I've decided on the following steps;

Today - cold crash (i.e. leave the fermenter out for the night in the freezing cold outside)
Tuesday - rack, add beer finings, and again cold crash
Wednesday - rack, add Campden tablets
Friday - Rack to bottling bucket with backsweetening, yeast and priming sugar; bottle.

I reckon the worst that will happen will be a sour cider - could be a new style!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on March 24, 2014, 05:30:02 PM
If it is a lactobacillus infection will it consume consume any of the back sweetening sugars that the yeast will not. I'm not sure myself just might be something for you to look into.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on March 24, 2014, 05:35:48 PM
Not a cider expert, but I know from German sour beers that lacto loves apple juice. Generally, it doesn't like low pH - like in fermented beverages quite as much.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Dunkel on March 24, 2014, 05:48:58 PM
If it is a lactobacillus infection will it consume consume any of the back sweetening sugars that the yeast will not. I'm not sure myself just might be something for you to look into.

Even something like Splenda?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Eoin on March 24, 2014, 05:56:29 PM
If it is a lactobacillus infection will it consume consume any of the back sweetening sugars that the yeast will not. I'm not sure myself just might be something for you to look into.

Even something like Splenda?


That's an artificial sweetener and contains no sugar right?

Sent from my HTC One

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on March 24, 2014, 06:47:29 PM
Where's Will when you need him.  ;D
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Dunkel on March 24, 2014, 06:59:17 PM
Splenda is a mix of maltodextrin and "sweetener (sucralose 1%)". So I think that means just 1% is the sweetening bit. So nope, not fermentable by yeast.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on March 24, 2014, 07:09:02 PM
Yeast no but lacto?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on March 24, 2014, 07:11:44 PM
Are you sure it's not wild yeast? Film yeast infections seem to be extremely common with cider, and don't look too different from the lacto pictures on google images.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Dunkel on March 24, 2014, 09:16:18 PM
I really don't know  :(
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: johnrm on March 25, 2014, 12:10:58 AM
I had that film on my cider.
I tried syphoning off but it came back.
I just shoved it out to the shed and forgot about it.
Must look again soon.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on March 25, 2014, 09:26:52 AM
I siphoned into demijohns flushed with CO2 and hit with some more campden tablets.

It came back again so I bottled.

It came back again so I floated it off the effected bottles with cooled boiled water.

Haven't seen anything for a while now.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: johnrm on March 25, 2014, 06:49:16 PM
I floated it off the effected bottles with cooled boiled water.
That sounds interesting.
How did you do that then?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: mr hoppy on March 25, 2014, 07:05:27 PM
Easy, I poured water into the open mouth of the (flip top) bottle until the liquid on which the film sat came out of the bottle. Then I closed it again.

The bottles weren't carbonted at the time. If they were, the CO2 would have protected against oxygen loving baddies.

I think someone recommended doing it earlier in the thread?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: GrahamR on April 15, 2014, 10:33:07 PM
question on this, 1ltr on cloudy costs €1.20 atm. Would it be possible to buy say 12 ltrs of juice, mix with maybe 300g of demerara sugar and then top up with water to 20 ltrs which i imagine would give roughly the same abv. would save myself €8 a batch
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on April 15, 2014, 10:40:13 PM
question on this, 1ltr on cloudy costs €1.20 atm. Would it be possible to buy say 12 ltrs of juice, mix with maybe 300g of demerara sugar and then top up with water to 20 ltrs which i imagine would give roughly the same abv. would save myself €8 a batch
Yes the above statemnets would be true.

Howver you would have a thin, alcoholic, appleish drink that was not a true cider!

Unfortunately cider is expensive compared to beer. Its like wine, you need juice, more juice and nowt but the juice to make the nectar of Hereford!*

So don't scrimp on the juice!

*Why Hereford and not Summerset? Coz I grew up in next county to H (Monmouthshire) and my uncle Harry worked at Bulmers in Hereford
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: GrahamR on April 15, 2014, 11:04:58 PM
Thanks Will, thought that might be the case alright regarding taste. Just pick up a few cartons at a time so. Anyone tried a blend with Aldi Frozen Fruits, maybe 4 ltrs of juice to a half pound of fruit
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on April 15, 2014, 11:12:48 PM
Thanks Will, thought that might be the case alright regarding taste. Just pick up a few cartons at a time so. Anyone tried a blend with Aldi Frozen Fruits, maybe 4 ltrs of juice to a half pound of fruit
Funny you should mention this as I am just emptying the freezer of last years Berrys and Rhubarb.

So for 23 L of Berry cider:

5Kg of frozen fruits ( Blackberry, Rasberry, Blueberry, Blackcurrant, Forest fruits from supermarket or whatever)
12 odd liters of AJ (fresh, real cider juice pasteurised or Lidl)
2 kgs sugar

Dissolve sugar in boiling water, pour over frozen fruits, make up to about 10L, allow to cool

Add pectice enzyme.
Leave 24 hrs and add the yeast of choice and nutrients.
Ferment on pulp for 3 days.
Strain and press the fruit.

Add the AJ

Ferment and wait! :)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Hingo on April 16, 2014, 01:22:20 PM
Hey Folks,

I'm planning on making cider from apples in September - there's an orchard down in my grandparent's place in Kilkenny bout half acre with most of it covered in full grown apple trees (about 15 - 20 trees).

Any tips for making it from apples? I've been looking at apple presses too - is there anything to be said for making your own apple press? It'll be my first cider to brew (been beer only otherwise) so other than what's been mentioned any further tips re: turning apples into juice would be welcome.


It'll be a bit of a project, and I know there'll be a fair bit of work for the same result one would get from juice but if it's nice, I might make it a yearly thing. also might try make a naturally fermented batch and another with champagne yeast (campden tablets n all that)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: LordEoin on April 16, 2014, 01:34:32 PM
I'd start with a scratter (applesmasher), if you get that right you'll be laughing :)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on April 16, 2014, 01:56:42 PM
Hi Hingo,

You've just remineded me its time I wrote CIDER-102 "From bare soil to juice"

So before I write it starting with the bare soil bit and as your granny's trees are fully mature here's a couple of mini chapters:

Choice of Apples:
    Cider is best made from a blend of apples. The bulk are usually cider apples (noted for acidity and tannins) blended with Bramleys (or other acidic cooking apples) and some desert apples (noted for sweetness and perfumes. Granny & Grandad probably won't have cider varietys so its all about blending desert and sweet apples. Try say 25% Bramley to 75% desert.

Harvesting:
   Ideally wait for the apples to fall off by themselves as then they are ripe. You can speed up a bit by shaking the tree/branches. Spread sheets/tarpaulins under the tree to ease picking up! If you hand pick then the apples will not be fully ripe (Note to perry makers: You pick the pears before they are fully rip!).
   Yiels: You should easily get about 50 kgs per tree! (Typically 3 or 4 kg of apples will yield 1 litre of juice)

Tumping:
   Most ciderr makers then store the apples for 1 2 or more weeks to allow the apples to soften  - this ups the extraction facility

The big day:
   Now comes the day of pressing:

  Wash the apples in clean water. Some people add campden (sodium metabisulphite) tablets. I save them for later. See below!

   Now the apples are inspected - the odd bruise and scab is not a problem but codling moth is. If the trees are old and neglected then they may harbour codling moth grubs. As the big apples have to be quartered to go through the scratter you will see if there are unwanted guests in the core.

   I throw the quartered apples into sulphited water as it helps to stop them going brown

Scratting:

   The apples now have to reduced to a coarse pulp. The device that does this is called a scratter. They can be bought or home made. Some people just put them through a cheap clean garden shredder. As you have so many apples then a scratter is definely needed.

Pressing:

   Again for this you are going to need a press. Size does matter!
   There are screw presses to buy or make
   There are hydraulic presses to make (use a lorry jack for example)

   You add the pulp (called pomace) into a press bag and press away.

Now you need to read post 1 in this thread as towhat to do next.

Re: equipment:
As this is your first time and the press and scratter are expensive (€300 to 400€ to buy) or time consuming to make when the time comes get in touch with someone who has the kit and lives near you and then the pair of you harvest the apples, procces them and then split the juice.

I live in Malahide, (North Dublin) where are you based?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Hingo on April 16, 2014, 03:17:18 PM
I'm based in Rathfarnham, but as the trees are down in Kilkenny I'll probably to the leg work in my folks house (they live down there too) and leave the FVs down there.

If what you say about 40 - 50 kg of apples per tree - there's gonna be some haul, don't hold me to any promises but if harvest day is decent - I don't think I'll use them all, there may some spare. Like I said don't hold me to that yet but I'll keep you all posted. I'm only looking to make 20-40 litres (depending on how many FV's I want to give up) and me Ma is looking to make some apple juice too that she used to make back in the day (for this I've got her to split the cost of a press with me)

Not sure what variety they are, it's definitely a mix but the trees are well over 50 years old & the grandparents aren't around to ask. All I know is that I've eaten them back in the hay day and lived to tell the tale :P (   ::) Ohh and they're red- ish..) 

I had planned in getting a small - medium sized press (MyBeer&Wine have discount on atm - 12 litre press for €105 / 18 litre €170) and basically just do a few rounds of  until I reach the target volume. - other than the extra labour is there any issue doing this? (IE prone to infection/inconsistent apple juice if there's such thing)

As for scratting - I was just going to get a food processor to do that bit - quarter the apples, fill up the food processor, lug it into the press & repeat.  - again other than the labour is this feasible? I've seen a few plans for a home made scratter online and I do have a few months to kill waiting on the apples.   

I could go down one weekend, harvest the apples, leave them a few weeks as you say, (Or go for it there and then depending on what's concluded about tumping) back down again for the juicing, hang around a few days and rack them a  secondary and leave them for x amount of time.

Typically , How long does it take to ferment?

also other than apples & yeast /sweetner etc is there any variables I should consider for controlling how it tastes? IE if I was to ferment at a lower temp, different juicing techniques etc - or is that all ultimately decided by the apple? I only ask as when brewing beer, mashing temps can affect how dry the beer tastes, fermenting temps, etc..  (I know cider/beer is like comparing apples to oranges barley)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JimmyM on April 17, 2014, 09:44:30 AM
Lads - Forgive me for not reading through the 17 pages here - my answer probably lies there somewhere... but...

Ive been particularly neglectful of my ciderhead groupbuy cider. I simply left it in the container until last night.
Kegged it and - its actually alright!!! i.e. No manky off flavours or after taste.

Anyway - can anyone tell me what the OG was and also assuming its fully fermented, I didnt take a measurement - and dont intend on digging out my hydrometer, what was the OG FG for someone who did something similar to me(i.e. nothing)?

Very lazy post I know...
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on April 17, 2014, 10:10:01 AM
OG was 1.052 and pH was 3.7
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JimmyM on April 17, 2014, 10:46:00 AM
Cheers Will - did you leave any au naturale? What was the FG? - (I amended my post above to what I meant to say)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: JimmyM on April 17, 2014, 11:15:34 AM
Good shtuff - thanks for that.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on April 17, 2014, 11:21:15 AM
At present mine is at 1.003 and is untouched!

According to beersmith thats 6.4% ABV
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Blueshed on April 17, 2014, 06:33:14 PM
i bottled mine a few weeks ago and the FG was 995/996
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bogwoppit on April 18, 2014, 09:32:01 AM
Cheers Will - did you leave any au naturale? What was the FG? - (I amended my post above to what I meant to say)

I feremnted mine au naturale, one finished at 1.000 the other at 1.004.

Bw
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on May 15, 2014, 11:33:37 PM
Drinking my first pint of cider from the apple juice group buy last year and i am pleased to say the cider is drinkable. I pasteurised mine and mixed in off the shelf apple juice to sweeten it.

Shanna
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: GrahamR on June 02, 2014, 10:04:30 PM
Was drinking the lindemans apple at the weekend and it kept reminding me of sour apple drop sweets.

Has anyone ever tried getting a bag of apple sours and crushing them to a powder for a secondary fermentation.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bogwoppit on June 04, 2014, 11:26:29 AM
I'd ordered some malo lactic culture for the group buy cider and it arrived last week.
This evening I tasted the cider and whilst it is still sharp I don't think its from excessive acid.
What I think I'm tasting is tannins and as far as I understand this should precipitate out over time.
So there's a malo lactic culture going if anyone wants it.

The 2 batches have quite a different flavor even though they had the same process, that's what happens with wild yeasts I suppose.

Bw
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on June 17, 2014, 07:15:39 PM
Used a counter pressure bottle filler to fill a crate full of 1 litre bottles and unfortunately the bottles have gone kerboom. Got home today to find garage floor covered in cider and broken glass everywhere. 8 litres gone up in a flash.Only plus side is that nobody was injured. Major downer as the cider was actually drinkable.

Another brewing lesson learned. I suspect the pressure rose with the warm weather and the bottles could not take the pressure.

Shanna
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Hingo on June 17, 2014, 10:36:27 PM

Used a counter pressure bottle filler to fill a crate full of 1 litre bottles and unfortunately the bottles have gone kerboom. Got home today to find garage floor covered in cider and broken glass everywhere. 8 litres gone up in a flash.Only plus side is that nobody was injured. Major downer as the cider was actually drinkable.

Another brewing lesson learned. I suspect the pressure rose with the warm weather and the bottles could not take the pressure.

Shanna
Woah!! And you pasturised it too, over carbed? I mean I know its warm out but wouldn't have thought the heat would be that malicious
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on June 17, 2014, 11:58:20 PM

Used a counter pressure bottle filler to fill a crate full of 1 litre bottles and unfortunately the bottles have gone kerboom. Got home today to find garage floor covered in cider and broken glass everywhere. 8 litres gone up in a flash.Only plus side is that nobody was injured. Major downer as the cider was actually drinkable.

Another brewing lesson learned. I suspect the pressure rose with the warm weather and the bottles could not take the pressure.

Shanna
Woah!! And you pasturised it too, over carbed? I mean I know its warm out but wouldn't have thought the heat would be that malicious
I used old Bulmers bottles reasealed with Coopers caps. while picking through the debris I noticed that several of the caps were distorted. My shed also has a galvanize roof and is South facing. Perfect storm and I probably overdue the carb when filling them. :(

Shanna
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on June 18, 2014, 11:38:00 AM
I doubt it was the CP and sunshine.

When you CP as soon as you vent the botlle the excess pressure is relieved. Its just the gas disolved in the cider that will remain.

What was your pasteurisation profile? How did you pasteurise in botle or bulk?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on June 18, 2014, 03:51:18 PM
I doubt it was the CP and sunshine.

When you CP as soon as you vent the botlle the excess pressure is relieved. Its just the gas disolved in the cider that will remain.

What was your pasteurisation profile? How did you pasteurise in botle or bulk?
Hi Will

I pasteurised on the stove top to 72 C for 15 minutes and measured with the mercury thermometer. Pretty sure it was done Ok. I used a copper coil to cool it to 20C in about 20.minutes and kegged and carbed. It was first outing using the home made cp bottle filler and I am pretty sure I overdid the Co2. I talked my technique of using it with Dempsey and I made some elementary errors.I can't sure I vented all bottles correctly. I had no problems or signs of problems till the warm weather. I suspect one or two failing at same time took out some of the others.

Shanna
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on June 19, 2014, 05:14:04 PM
Just a bit of an update.
With my batch of cider i took a demi full before kegging and let it sit on 10g of sherry oak chips for the last 2 months. Just bottled it now and an WELL impressed. I thought I would have to back sweeten it first but its pulled enough sweetness from the chips not to need it.


Its really nice and worth a go.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on August 15, 2014, 10:03:07 PM
BUMP!

As aples are starting to swell and GBs are being discussed, its time for the new cider makers to read post #1 of this thread!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: googoomuck on August 21, 2014, 04:21:55 PM
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/21/253e719ca77410c6a39f6a2aa0cff0a0.jpg)
Came across this stuff (Nougasec) in a catalogue. From skimming through the posts in the thread I thought this stuff might be handy. I'll give them a buzz and see if I can get a break down on the ingredients.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Hingo on August 21, 2014, 04:54:17 PM

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/21/253e719ca77410c6a39f6a2aa0cff0a0.jpg)
Came across this stuff (Nougasec) in a catalogue. From skimming through the posts in the thread I thought this stuff might be handy. I'll give them a buzz and see if I can get a break down on the ingredients.
(http://i.imgur.com/4dcxCen.gif)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: googoomuck on August 21, 2014, 07:26:54 PM
Haha just skimming through the posts and some people used lactose and maltodextrin to sweeten and to add body to the cider.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on August 27, 2014, 09:55:05 PM
In reply to another post its update time:

Already I have been offered apples for cider!

So someone offers you 5/10/20 kgs of windfalls - not the best quality and certainly not enough for a batch. So what to do?

Find a freezer is the answer!

If you are making cider from donated apples ( the CHEAPEST way to make cider is with FREE apples) then its a great idea to freeze the apples first.

Not only does this allow you to build up the "stash" over time - like raspberries for fruit wines that you pick over 3 or 4 weeks (longer in the case of my autumn rassers)

BUT the bigest bonus is that when the fruit thaws out the cell walls are ruptured so they are much easier to process:

As the windfalls and other ripe apples that friends give you arrive:

Wash, quarter and freeze. When thawed they will scratt/pulp/press so much easier.

If your press could be stronger then another trick is to ferment on the pulp for a week or so:

Scratt the apples, if very dry (ie were under ripe to start with) add a few litres of Lidl Aj and sprinkle or pitch with chosen yeast.

After a week press the bolix out of it and carry on the ferment!

And if you want to impress someone like the local PP: Its called "Carbonic Maceration" [work out yer own puns]

PS: This sort of comment will prolly get the PP foaming at the mouth
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Hingo on September 30, 2014, 01:52:47 PM
I had a busy couple of weekends anyway there, picking apples there a few weeks ago, let them sit for about 12 days to get the starches into sugars (mainly because I was out of the country to be honest) and pressing them all weekend just gone. Very labour intensive, mainly as I was hand cutting and pulping them in a food processor. Had about 5 or 6 different types of apples, not too big now as the trees have been neglected over the years but managed to get a decent 30 litres from about 6/7 boxes of apples - coddling moth was around a lot this year  (http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/30/e21c38b617748812ec3adc5f7304de97.jpg)
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/30/1518efd5251f412d352b02a7a8bee0e1.jpg)
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/30/9f2fa74c5f1324e33136ad9834b03e12.jpg)

Overall I think it'll be a decent batch, going to go with Champagne yeast for this one, I'll worry about back sweetening again later. Used about 10 campden tabs to kill off anything in the  juice and will prob pitch tomorrow once I get the yeast in

Lessons for next year
-Prune the apple trees
-treat for coddling moth
-Get a scratter/mill
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on October 01, 2014, 11:48:53 AM
Great photos Dave Looking good
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on October 05, 2014, 07:36:55 PM
Pasteurising and kegging cider:

Just a heads up about pasteurising and keging cider:

In the Nationals one of my ciders was a gusher! Hmm I thought: Why is this?

Any way totally forgot about it as it did score quite well despite it’s over exuberance at carbonation!

Fast foreward 6 months and its time to prepare for the  season cider. Need to process 60 litres of cider.

As usual: Pasteurise/ sweeten with AJ/Sugar etc (NOTE: All are fermentable) and keg. Carbonate and drink or CP bottle fill as required.

NOW, Here is the problem:

Beer makers take a conditioned beer and Cornie it. As long as there is no bad stuff in the Cornie then all is ok. If there is a bit of the previous beer yeast lurking then there will be no problem!
After all, there are no fermentables left

This DOES NOT WORK for sweetened pasteurised cider! One or two of the healthy little fekkers will referment your lovely Past-your-Eyes juice.

Most commercial makers pack P-y-E cider into new bags/bottles

How to totally sanitise a Cornie: No idea yet but watch this space

HTH  Will
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on October 06, 2014, 08:35:34 AM
Can you pop cider into a keg and naturally carb like with a beer? This would mean using an artificial sweetener I'd assume so that it doesn't just referment to dry...
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on October 06, 2014, 10:20:00 AM
Can you pop cider into a keg and naturally carb like with a beer? This would mean using an artificial sweetener I'd assume so that it doesn't just deferment to dry...
Yes indeed you can. You just have to use a non-fermentable sweetner when bottle or keg conditioning!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Hingo on October 06, 2014, 10:26:45 AM
I would recommend this thread be pinned, it's a very comprehensive guide and you could perhaps edit your op to include pasturising and kegging.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on October 06, 2014, 10:31:57 AM
I would recommend this thread be pinned, it's a very comprehensive guide and you could perhaps edit your op to include pasturising and kegging.
Hi Dave,
Yes the thought has crossed my mind. Just need the time to do it!

Consider it added to my "To Do" list

At least it doesn't inolve leaving the house as in: "Where ARE you going NOW?"
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: bigvalen on October 07, 2014, 06:29:59 PM

A friend pointed me to this http://www.gweep.net/~abate/Ferm/index.html - guy doing experiments with different yeasts etc.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on October 08, 2014, 10:10:33 AM
So, getting prepped for the group buy and trying to come up with a recipe. I want to get a medium dry cider, which has a nice apple taste and not too tart. What you think:

20L Apple Juice
EDIT: 600-900G Maple Syrup for a smokey flavour, added in secondary
Champagne Yeast or Notty (TBD)
EDIT: Yeast nutrient

* Pop in some campden to get the PH down and kill the natural yeasties, then pop in the yeast 24 hours later.
* Ferment for 3 weeks @ 16C
* Transfer to corny (to get out of plastic) and condition for 4 months
* Then, to sweeten, 300G Maltodexterin, transfer to clean keg and force carb. Not pasturing, as I want the yeast to stay active in case there is anything in the keg.

With the rest of the juice, I'll probably just do a natural ferment for a compare and contrast.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on October 08, 2014, 10:19:18 AM
Sounds like a great idea.

Will the Maple syrup holds its flavour or will fermntation outgasing leach the smoke?

Maybe better to add it end of primary when you rack into the Cornies.

I ferment my GB juice outdoors (due to lack of space) and so it ferments low and slow over the winter. I get it started indoors at 18C or so and as soon as its started out they go!

BTW to avoid the H2S: add some yeast nutrient!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on October 08, 2014, 10:38:59 AM
Ah cool. Ok I'll add the Maple to the secondary in that case, as that will have a nice slow ferment over the 4 months and give it something to do :) Thanks for the tip on the nutrient.

A slighlty stupid question, but if it's fermenting that much in secondary, will the keg be happy with the pressure buildup? I know they're rated quite high but I've never fermented without an airlock. I guess if I burp it the first 3-4 weeks, all will be fine anyway.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bubbles on October 08, 2014, 10:58:01 AM
A slighlty stupid question, but if it's fermenting that much in secondary, will the keg be happy with the pressure buildup

I don't think that's a stupid question at all, or maybe I'm just stupid too... :)

I've often wondered this. It's called a pressure release valve, does it have the ability to vent pressure on its own, if the pressure gets too high?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on October 08, 2014, 11:01:28 AM
A slighlty stupid question, but if it's fermenting that much in secondary, will the keg be happy with the pressure buildup

I don't think that's a stupid question at all, or maybe I'm just stupid too... :)

I've often wondered this. It's called a pressure release valve, does it have the ability to vent pressure on its own, if the pressure gets too high?
Mechanically, it's a spring that holds the valve closed, so I'm guessing it's rated to give before the keg does. I don't feel brave enough to be the one to test that though ;)
The other option if it was really needed would be to install an airlock instead of the release value, but I don't want too if I don't need it.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on October 08, 2014, 01:52:43 PM
A slighlty stupid question, but if it's fermenting that much in secondary, will the keg be happy with the pressure buildup

I don't think that's a stupid question at all, or maybe I'm just stupid too... :)

I've often wondered this. It's called a pressure release valve, does it have the ability to vent pressure on its own, if the pressure gets too high?
Mechanically, it's a spring that holds the valve closed, so I'm guessing it's rated to give before the keg does. I don't feel brave enough to be the one to test that though ;)
The other option if it was really needed would be to install an airlock instead of the release value, but I don't want too if I don't need it.
According to this it allows the keg automatically vent the excess pressure or else allows a person manually release the pressure.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0245/4467/files/Cornelius_Kegging_Systems.pdf

Shanna
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on October 08, 2014, 05:50:19 PM
That's a great Pdf. Saving.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: RichC on October 11, 2014, 08:03:52 AM
Has anyone here pasteurised bottle conditioned/carbed cider as per HBT? I see Wills first post recommends pasteurising and then force carbing if you want bottled carbed cider. My only worry is the safety aspect of it. Any experience with this anyone?
Sorry if its been covered but I havent read the complete thread!

Thanks

Richard
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bubbles on October 07, 2015, 11:17:59 AM
Great thread, thanks to Will, good to resurrect it.

I'm thinking of going "au natural" (no, not like that..) this year with the apple juice. That is, letting the natural yeasts on the skins do the work of fermenting my cider. Did anyone do this last year and what were the results like?

I like the idea of a bit of barnyard funk. I like my cider dry as bone, and bit rough. :)

Last year I did one drum with Youngs cider yeast and the other with English ale yeast. Both turned out well, but I preferred the Enlgish ale version. Surprising amount of body in the finished cider, even though it was bottle-conditioned and fermented to dryness.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: nigel_c on October 07, 2015, 11:35:38 AM
I let it do its own thing last year. More accurately I forgot to do anything and didn't get to it in time.
let it do its thing for a few months and racked to keg early this year.
Tapped the keg lastnight for its first pour. Very dry but not puckeringly sour. Still a nice apple taste but I may add some reduced AJ and keep it in the fridge.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bubbles on October 07, 2015, 11:48:10 AM
Anything "funky" about it? Anything that might tell you it was fermented with commercial yeast?

I was very happy with last years juice, but I do think it was lacking a bit in apple flavour. So I'd like to use whatever yeast is going to retain the maximum amount of that apple flavour.

Btw, the health food shops do a concentrated apple juice product that's very good quality, if you don't want to reduce it yourself. I made an applewine with it a couple of years ago. I tried searching for the brand name, but I can't find it..
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on October 07, 2015, 12:07:01 PM
Thinking of using wlp002 this year. Also, need to figure out some way to store the extra 5L that I don't keg, as all the bottles I made turned into small explosive devices as they kept fermenting away.

Also, has anyone done a demi with fruit with any of the cider? How much fruit do you use and how long do you leave the cider sitting on it? Have raspberries from the garden that I want to mess with...
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bubbles on October 07, 2015, 12:11:16 PM
Thinking of using wlp002 this year. Also, need to figure out some way to store the extra 5L that I don't keg, as all the bottles I made turned into small explosive devices as they kept fermenting away.

Odd. How long did you give it in primary?

Also, has anyone done a demi with fruit with any of the cider? How much fruit do you use and how long do you leave the cider sitting on it? Have raspberries from the garden that I want to mess with...

I've done a 5 litre turbo cider with supermarket frozen mixed berries. About 500g per demi-john would be a good start. Lot of acidity in them though, so you might want to compensate with some extra sweetening.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on October 07, 2015, 01:01:27 PM
all the bottles I made turned into small explosive devices as they kept fermenting away.

Odd. How long did you give it in primary?
About 4-6 weeks. I think it might have been the lees, as there was a lot settled in the bottom while the cider was clearing. The keg got transferred off these after  a few months and fared much better.

How long did you keep your 500G fruit in contact? I was thinking giving it 4 weeks.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bubbles on October 07, 2015, 01:38:13 PM
I fermented with the berries in primary for about about 3 weeks, I think. It was just a turbo cider. I added pectolase and artificial sweetener, but obviously not enough sweetener as it was very acidic. Lovely berry flavour off it though. I think I also racked it to secondary for a few days to help it clear.
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on October 07, 2015, 05:45:43 PM
Over the years I used champagne, Edinburgh, wlp cider,  05, 002 and 2 others I can't even remember after reading an aha article and guess what, the best tasting cider I produce is done with the youngs or Gervin !!
Interesting thing I discovered 12 months ago is the longer you leave the cider the more pronounced the apple flavour is, it's almost like it goes through a, green,green,drinkable but harsh, more drinkable, no Apple, good enough for the wife, really getting good balanced, wrestling from the wife, locking the shed door stages, problem is that takes between 12 and 18 months :(

Edit found it
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/cider

028 was the best for me of all beer yeasts, there is a very specific process in making the starter where you need 50:50 dme:AJ
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on October 07, 2015, 09:53:44 PM
The best way to store left over/"won't fit in the fermenter juice" is to pour into plastic bottles and freeze them.

Regards Yeasts: Yes indeed a lot of beer yeasts can be used, I like a lager yeast as I ferment outdoors throught the winter. Cider fermentation is NOT like beer. Long and slow is the best!

Last years juice was fermenting on delivery, the previous year's juice tookover  6 weeks before any spontaneous fermentation.

Sulphur Smells: As you will only smell this indoors then you are too warm! Add some simple yeast nutrient and kick it out off the house.

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: BrewDorg on October 15, 2015, 03:47:56 PM
Bought a pack of Safale US-04 for my first turbo cider. Anyone have any experience with it? Hoping to have my first cider finished out for Christmas.
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on October 15, 2015, 05:04:29 PM
Not on this thread which is an informative thread how to convert your own picked finest quality apples or how to ferment the best juice Irish producers have to offer, try another one about Turbo Juice ;)
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php?topic=8051.msg134081#msg134081
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bubbles on October 24, 2015, 03:58:47 PM
I'm currently drinking some of last year's cider which I fermented with WLP002. I'd highly recommend it as a yeast choice. Lovely body and just enough residual sweetness.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: delzep on November 17, 2015, 12:36:25 AM
Would leaving the juice in a fridge at low temps after adding campden tabs give a day or twos grace before adding yeast?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on November 17, 2015, 10:23:48 AM
Yes. The Campdens are added to set the pH of the juice such that the wild yeasts and particularly bacteria are suppressed. The comercial strains of beers/wine/cider yeast will work at these pH levels.

Low temperatures also affect the above micro organisms so its a double bonus if you fridge as well.

Looks like the outside weather is going to help as well

Recomendations are:

Below pH 3.0 - no need juice is acid enough
3.1 - 3.3  1 tab per gallon
3.4 - 3.6  2 tabs per gallon
3.7 - 3.8  3 tabs per gallon
Over 3.8   Need to add Mallic acid - Higly unlikey in a commercial cider juice blend like we have!

And don't worry the SO2 won't be in the finished cider as it bound onto other things.

One other note for people in small houses with sensitive noses: Your partner will often detect Hydrogen Sulphide aromas from the fermenting juices and be not impressed.
Most of us find that adding wine yeast nutrients will help to reduce the smells.

However Cider is best fermented cool ( low and slow ) so once you get the initial fermentation, outside is the best place - either in a shed or just outside in the shade, with the airlocks covered.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on November 17, 2015, 10:41:14 AM
This has been asked time and time again, but I'm unclear on the answer. Is it ok to do primary in the bucket it comes in or should we transfer over to fermenters due to the plastic it comes in? Transferred last year, but I need to move it out of the fermentation quickly this year and the fermenter is a pain to carry downstairs.

Also, I seem to remember primary is much longer for cider, as the lee's give nutrient, so we wait until January before transferring to secondary/kegs?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on November 17, 2015, 11:14:37 AM
This has been asked time and time again, but I'm unclear on the answer. Is it ok to do primary in the bucket it comes in or should we transfer over to fermenters due to the plastic it comes in?
A lot of people do exactly that.

Some prefer to get it into glass or stainless asap. Its a personnal thing but leaving it as is shouldn't be a problem. As you say fermentation is long and slow. The only reason to rack early is if you press your own juice and there are lots of bits in it. Our juice I'm sure is filtered so no bits!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: itsclinto on November 17, 2015, 12:29:25 PM
I'm after adding campden tablets to the cider i received yesterday and i was thinking before i pitch to take a couple of litres for batch priming later.  I've read that a hydrometer reading of say 1.044, is roughly 4.4% sugar, so i can then use this to calculate my priming amount.  For example, 1 litre is 44 grams of sugar/fermentables therefore for a carbonation of 2.25 for 15 litres, i'd need 1.75 litres (77 grams of sugar).  The question is, has anybody done this before?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on November 17, 2015, 12:53:05 PM
That would mean you need the part you've kept back to keep for a few months while the cider is slowly fermenting. The problem is that it will go off in the meantime - the reason we ferment in the first place :)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Simon_ on November 17, 2015, 01:02:51 PM
You can freeze the portion you plan to hold back?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: itsclinto on November 17, 2015, 04:16:11 PM
That would mean you need the part you've kept back to keep for a few months while the cider is slowly fermenting. The problem is that it will go off in the meantime - the reason we ferment in the first place :)

Thats what i was thinking.  Would the juice be ok if i pasteurized it before putting aside?

You can freeze the portion you plan to hold back?

Do i have to do anything to make the juice safe before i freeze it or is it ok as it is?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bubbles on November 17, 2015, 07:43:29 PM
Why not just prime with sugar? Seems like more effort than it's worth. The flavour contributions from priming with juice will be negligible. And your carbonation level is harder to predict.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: itsclinto on November 17, 2015, 07:47:44 PM
Why not just prime with sugar? Seems like more effort than it's worth. The flavour contributions from priming with juice will be negligible. And your carbonation level is harder to predict.

Thought it was a good idea but as you said, it might be an awful lot more trouble than it's worth
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bubbles on November 17, 2015, 07:51:20 PM
I think so. Might even be a slight infection risk with freezing, then thawing the juice. How about priming some your cider with honey? Not sure if the flavour would come through with that either though.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: itsclinto on November 17, 2015, 08:22:18 PM
I think so. Might even be a slight infection risk with freezing, then thawing the juice. How about priming some your cider with honey? Not sure if the flavour would come through with that either though.

Ye I'll leave it. I'll probably think of something else closer to bottling date to drag up the thread again.  Thanks again lads
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on November 17, 2015, 11:52:43 PM
Frozen juice will keep for a long long time. HOWEVER, when thawed out not all bacteria and wild yeasts are guarenteed to be dead. So if you use this to sweeten a finished pasteurised cider you may have troubles.

Pasteurised and then frozen juice would be the way to go to avoid aforementioned problem.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: jawalemon on November 19, 2015, 05:32:20 PM
How many camp den tablets did people add to the 25 litres?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on November 19, 2015, 05:41:50 PM
11
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: ronnieb on November 19, 2015, 07:12:58 PM
7, I like to live on the dangerous side of life..
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Shanna on November 19, 2015, 07:26:49 PM
6 gallons @ 2 tabs for ph of 3.6 gives 12 tabs

Shanna
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: jawalemon on November 19, 2015, 07:58:35 PM
I went for 11 but I think I added 12 by mistake.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on November 19, 2015, 08:23:57 PM
I want for 11 but I think I added 12 by mistake.
Whats one tab between friends?

Relax, it is cider so it will be great in about 6 months!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: jawalemon on November 19, 2015, 08:36:49 PM

I want for 11 but I think I added 12 by mistake.
Whats one tab between friends?

Relax, it is cider so it will be great in about 6 months!

Grand, I'll give it a couple of days and pitch the yeast.

The cider I made last year still has a sulphur smell. Have you any advice  how to avoid that this year?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: delzep on November 19, 2015, 10:01:38 PM
Is aerating the bejaysus out of the juice before pitching yeast recommended?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on November 19, 2015, 10:20:04 PM
Not required and will probably lead to oxidation
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: krockett on November 19, 2015, 10:45:13 PM
I've never had a krausen like this - started to have a blow off through the container neck and had to transfer into a fermenter. Looks like I'm lucky the lid stayed on.

This is S-04

(http://s13.postimg.org/3z82zlskn/IMG_4686.jpg)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on November 20, 2015, 10:44:51 AM
The cider I made last year still has a sulphur smell. Have you any advice  how to avoid that this year?
Add some Young wine yeast nutrient say about 20 gms to 5 gallons
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on November 20, 2015, 01:50:43 PM
Folks ideal temp for fermenting cider is 15-18  for standard yeasts, it can ferment at 5 but below 10 you risk fermentation stall above 20 and you can expect funky pear flavours 
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: krockett on November 20, 2015, 03:40:35 PM
My Missus wants me to throw it out cos of the smell. How long will it last?


Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on November 20, 2015, 04:05:09 PM
what temp is it at?
a week, trick is to open windows in the morning before she gets up just to get worst away

Or hit the beans hard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB7rKMcNnak
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bubbles on November 20, 2015, 04:40:32 PM
you can expect funky pear flavours

Just call it pear cider..? Job done.. ;)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: krockett on November 21, 2015, 06:10:11 PM
Lads I've read through this whole thread a couple of times and I'm not clear.. am I ok bottling and priming whatever I cant keg in a few weeks? Or will this keep slowly fermenting a bit further through till the summer so I'll get bottle bombs as described by a few people here?

Also: anyone who has done this before: were you happy with it fermented through as-is (so its dry) or are you sweetening?

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Bubbles on November 21, 2015, 07:04:39 PM
You're fine to bottle in a few weeks. However, the experienced cider makers here say to leave it on the lees for several months for several months, and I would not argue with their experience.

However, I got a decent result last year from doing exactly as you've described. I bottled and kegged after about a month. The bottles were a bit sulphury, but the kegged version was great.

If it has fermented down to 1.000 or thereabouts, the chances of bottle bombs are negligible.

I'm not sweetening my cider. I like it dry and slightly acidic. Last years had a lovely body and a hint of sweetness, though I will concede that this style of cider is not for everyone. All down to personal taste.
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: pob on November 21, 2015, 07:07:25 PM
'In a few weeks', don't rush it at all. It's not so much fermenting as conditioning.

You can drink it when it's young/fermented but it really takes months (9-12) to shine.

Patience is the biggest ingredient in cider (& beer).

No experience/ know nothing about back sweetening (I like it dry), others on here with wealth of knowledge & experience on how to.

Edit: beaten by Bubbles
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: krockett on November 21, 2015, 07:09:45 PM
Thanks lads - just the answers I was looking for.

Think I'm going to transfer to Cornys on Christmas eve and use 4 liters to soak the Christmas ham in. I'll put whatever's left into a 5 liter water bottle to condition w/ a layer of Co2 before bottling in April/ May.
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: pob on November 21, 2015, 07:13:14 PM
I only transfer off the yeast in late Jan to sit in demijohns (or cornies this year) until July/Aug before carbing/drinking at that stage.

I've even noticed a change (improvement) on last year's batch in the last few weeks, really smoothing out, v nice indeed.

Tasted a bottle of my 2013 harvest a week ago, fantastic apple flavour has developed as it aged. Only 1-2 bottles left of that now.

Next year buy 2 lots, drink one early & leave 2nd for as long as you can.
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: pob on November 21, 2015, 07:17:14 PM
Don't use a plastic water bottle, not meant for long term storage for beer/cider.

(I'm only passing on what JediCiderMaster CH has taught me(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/21/ea5b2011cfd3916f34b9e4cd0dd6e31f.jpg))
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on November 21, 2015, 07:43:48 PM
Is it ok in a plastic fermenter on the lees until late January? Airlock doesn't work on mine as well. Don't want to risk oxidising...
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: pob on November 21, 2015, 07:54:30 PM
I've left them in the original containers until then. Then transferred off trub into demijohns. They were in shed so low temps after 3-4 weeks fermentation.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Kevin O'Roundwood on November 21, 2015, 08:00:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tDP1ubIci8

They discuss a fair bit about back sweetening towards the end of this...
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: krockett on November 21, 2015, 08:27:24 PM


Don't use a plastic water bottle, not meant for long term storage for beer/cider.


I dont have any Carboys (and I'd buy another Corny before one of these - they're the same price!). I'll be using 2 Cornys already cos I bought 50 litres - the bottle was just to get some of the sulfur Bubbles refers to off before I put into glass (i.e. bottle). CH mentioned that a coke bottle would be preferable to the plastic the cider came from for storage - says its less permeable.
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on November 22, 2015, 02:19:06 PM
Bulk conditioning is better for cider as well as beer
Corneys are ideal and I have 10 with varying vintages under c02 blankets
Carboys or Demi johns with an occasional squirt of C02 or some even use olive oil, bit messy that though
The drums are good for 2-3 months then even tightly shut O2 will start to migrate through the wall
Cheapest option is obviously bottles. PET bottles are OK for about 6 months but I'd prime them just to be certain all the co2 was being consumed.
Burst pressure on plastic 2l bottles way exceeds that of glass and is less likely to kill you ;)
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: itsclinto on November 23, 2015, 03:53:48 PM
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r483/itsclinto/20151123_1333411_zps0ltkjwlr.jpg) (http://s1168.photobucket.com/user/itsclinto/media/20151123_1333411_zps0ltkjwlr.jpg.html)

Siphoned of a litre from each drum after pitching 7 campden tabs per drum.  Left the juice in the fridge and thought i'd drink it but it's fermenting even in the fridge  ???
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: delzep on November 27, 2015, 12:51:16 AM
Should the GB juice be allowed to ferment out fully at around 18c before cold storage in the shed for a few months?

Also,what was the og of the juice?
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on November 27, 2015, 11:27:02 AM
Should the GB juice be allowed to ferment out fully at around 18c before cold storage in the shed for a few months?
Also,what was the og of the juice?
Its up to you - long and slow is the advice from the cider makers. Most commercial ciders are fermented in open sheds with no heating!

OG: 1.049
pH:  3.6
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on December 11, 2015, 04:00:57 PM
Just measured 2016 juice it's down at 1.002 whereas the one I let do its own thing is at .999, both still fermenting tastes very clean, still a little cloudy, think this is going to be a good one, phew!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on December 11, 2015, 11:14:57 PM
Just measured 2016 juice it's down at 1.002 ....
Its True then, You ARE a timelord!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Simon_ on December 12, 2015, 11:06:10 AM
Well he's probably not going to drink it until 2016
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on December 12, 2015, 12:16:42 PM
Bad fiscal year habit I have, 2015 crop, 2016 cider
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: krockett on December 21, 2015, 11:34:46 AM
Mine is 1.002 aswell (used S04 with mine). I take it this is as low as they're going to go?

I wasn't able to find my hop straining bag so there are bits of lees in my keg. Do I need to re-rack and filter this?

Thanks,
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on January 05, 2016, 06:28:59 PM
1.002 here as well, with the American Wheat yeast. Just has a touch of residual sweetness, though it's still very very green. Great apple flavour coming through as well. If it stays there, I'm going to be very happy.

As always, a pic paints a 1000 words:
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on January 05, 2016, 06:31:48 PM
Mine is 1.002 aswell (used S04 with mine). I take it this is as low as they're going to go?

I wasn't able to find my hop straining bag so there are bits of lees in my keg. Do I need to re-rack and filter this?

Thanks,

If it's only a little, they'll settle to the bottom and cause no issue. Probably more of a risk of oxidisation if you transfer etc...
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on January 05, 2016, 06:37:17 PM
Looks lovely Molc
All ye feckers and yer fancy yeasts.
Davy From Tempted was able to pick up my Edinburgh ale yeast 2 years ago
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: krockett on January 08, 2016, 06:47:54 PM
Anyone got theirs outside? Am debating whether to bring my cornys in: temps hit 3 degrees here this morning - enough for cars to be frozen over.
Title: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on January 08, 2016, 07:02:27 PM
alcohol in it you are safe enough don't forget it's 19l so it would need to be below zero for a couple of days for her to go, just make sure it's in the shed
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: molc on January 08, 2016, 07:15:18 PM
Looks lovely Molc
All ye feckers and yer fancy yeasts.
Davy From Tempted was able to pick up my Edinburgh ale yeast 2 years ago
Plenty of years for me to figure it all out. Can taste it next year and tell me what you think. I split over 2 kegs so I'll have a clean sample for comparisons and maybe some blending...
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Will_D on January 08, 2016, 10:41:47 PM
Anyone got theirs outside? Am debating whether to bring my cornys in: temps hit 3 degrees here this morning - enough for cars to be frozen over.
Mine always live outside (after the initial fermentation).

Its just like Spartan warrior babys!
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: ronnieb on January 10, 2016, 04:19:36 PM
I let mine ferment in the drum it came in as I had no time to even think about putting it elsewhere...now fermentation is pretty much done I need to move it elsewhere.

I have a spare pressure barrel, I assume this may work as a storage location? Alternatively I could just put it into a carboy and shove a bung in and leave it..

I did notice though a slight worrying sheen on the surface.  Link to a picture with the flash on...

http://imgur.com/N90welP

Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on January 10, 2016, 04:31:20 PM
carboy or demi putting are better, the absolute max in it without touching the bung
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: ronnieb on January 10, 2016, 04:34:00 PM
Thanks CH.  I have attached a pic to my original post.

I think the quicker I move it the better..
Title: Re: CIDER 101
Post by: Leann ull on January 10, 2016, 04:39:43 PM
not sure what that is, leave it behind in any case when you rack