Starsan vs Chemipro Oxi

[coralaigh]

I was wondering what everyones opinion is on Starsan vs Chemipro Oxi for sanitizing brew equipment? I used Chemipro the first time around and felt there was an off taste from the beer.

[John_C]

Chemipro oxi is marketed as a 'no rinse' sanitiser but it definitely needs to be rinsed. It's excellent for cleaning hard to reach places (inside tubing etc...) but Lidl oxi clean is just as good.

[Shanna]

Chemipro oxi is marketed as a 'no rinse' sanitiser but it definitely needs to be rinsed. It's excellent for cleaning hard to reach places (inside tubing etc...) but Lidl oxi clean is just as good.

As far as I know both oxygen based cleaners although the chemipro oxy is a good bit dearer. Have used both and the active oxygen in chemipro oxi is brilliant for cleaning babies bottles and drinking cups (top tip)

Word to the wise don't let your skin come in contact for either for any prolonged period as it will dissolve the fat from the skin cells and your knuckles will resemble and old mans (a wrinkled bloody mess).

Shanna

[molc]

I was using chemipro as my no rince sanatiser for bottling for quite a while and had no ill effects, bat it takes months before I get decent head retention on my brews. Think that's just a process issue though.

Now using starsan with VWP or Lidl oxi for the cleaner, as my bucket of starsan in RO water lasts ages so it's cheap as chips.

[imark]

I had a batch I had to dump back in the days when I believed the no rinse sanitiser line on oxy. That was a couple of years ago.
Still use oxy, lidl, or vwp for cleaning but everything gets starsan rinse since then and never had a problem with that method of sanitising.

[Greg2013]

I hate to be the fly in the ointment again but neither Chempro (afaik)or Lidl W5 are sanitizers,they are briliant oxygen based cleaners but that is a they are is cleaners,i use the Lidl stuff myself. Starsan is a sanitizer but is not a cleaner.If you use chempro or Lidl oxy you still should use an actual sanitizer.

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/chemipro-oxi-no-rinse-cleaner-sterilizer-1-kg-1628-p.asp

Despite the misleading title if you read the text you will see that Chempro is indeed a "cleaner" not a "sanitizer". To sanitize something you have to actually kill bacteria etc.,neither Lidl oxy or Chempro do this,Starsan does.

[molc]

Chemipro is sold as a no Prince sanatizer which is one big issue here I think. I think brewferm even recommend you use it for that purpose.

[Greg2013]

Chemipro is sold as a no Prince sanatizer which is one big issue here I think. I think brewferm even recommend you use it for that purpose.

It might be sold as that but it is not true,it is not a sanitizer.

[coralaigh]

I sorta suspected as much. I think I might postpone tomorrows brew day, unfortunately, until I buy some starsan. Pain in the ass but I guess not as big a pain as off tasting beer! A big thanks for all the responses.

[imark]

You can use the bleach/vinegar  mix to achieve sanitisation too if you want to brew tomorrow. Everyone has bleach and vinegar to hand.

[Shanna]

You can use the bleach/vinegar  mix to achieve sanitisation too if you want to brew tomorrow. Everyone has bleach and vinegar to hand.

Remember to never mix them directly as it will produce chlorine gas (the stuff from the trenches of World War 1). See
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,6145.msg78002.html#msg78002 &
http://chemistry.about.com/od/toxicchemicals/a/Mixing-Bleach-And-Vinegar.htm

Shanna

[Greg2013]

You can use the bleach/vinegar  mix to achieve sanitisation too if you want to brew tomorrow. Everyone has bleach and vinegar to hand.

Remember to never mix them directly as it will produce chlorine gas (the stuff from the trenches of World War 1). See
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,6145.msg78002.html#msg78002 &
http://chemistry.about.com/od/toxicchemicals/a/Mixing-Bleach-And-Vinegar.htm

Shanna

+1 on what Shanna said be careful but if you are perfectly fine sanitizer,its what i use for bulk sanitizing and i just have the starsan in a spray bottle for quick touch ups

[Covey]

I hate to be the fly in the ointment again but neither Chempro (afaik)or Lidl W5 are sanitizers,they are briliant oxygen based cleaners but that is a they are is cleaners,i use the Lidl stuff myself. Starsan is a sanitizer but is not a cleaner.If you use chempro or Lidl oxy you still should use an actual sanitizer.

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/chemipro-oxi-no-rinse-cleaner-sterilizer-1-kg-1628-p.asp

Despite the misleading title if you read the text you will see that Chempro is indeed a "cleaner" not a "sanitizer". To sanitize something you have to actually kill bacteria etc.,neither Lidl oxy or Chempro do this,Starsan does.

Here we go again on the topic. W5 is made of mainly sodium percarbonate. The quote is taken from JP how to brew.

Percarbonates
Sodium percarbonate is sodium carbonate (i.e. Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda) reacted with hydrogen peroxide and it is a very effective cleaner for all types of brewing equipment. It rinses easily. Several products (e.g. Straight-A, Powder Brewery Wash, B-Brite, and One-Step) are approved by the FDA as cleaners in food-manufacturing facilities. One-Step is labeled as a light cleaner and final rinse agent, and produces hydrogen peroxide in solution. Hydrogen peroxide will effectively sanitize surfaces and containers that are already clean. As with all sanitizers, the effectiveness of hydrogen peroxide as a sanitizing agent is comprimised by organic soil. Use these cleaners according to the manufacturer's instructions, but generally use one tablespoon per gallon (4 ml per liter) and rinse after cleaning.

In my opinion, percarbonate-based cleaners are the best choice for equipment cleaning, and Straight-A from Logic Inc., and Powder Brewery Wash (PBW) from Five Star Chemicals, Inc. are the best of them. These products combine sodium metasilicate with the percarbonate in a stable form which increases its effectivity and prevents the corrosion of metals like copper and aluminum that strong alkaline solutions can cause.

Now it does both. Depending on how soiled the equipment is use it once to de-soil and once more to sanitize. Then rinse (i rinse with cold water then hot).The only non rinse solution is vaporised H202. If you have something dripping in starsan in contact with beer of course it will contaminate it, but to what discernible level. The next time the people doing the off flavors as part of the judging they could spike some beer with it.

[Greg2013]

I hate to be the fly in the ointment again but neither Chempro (afaik)or Lidl W5 are sanitizers,they are briliant oxygen based cleaners but that is a they are is cleaners,i use the Lidl stuff myself. Starsan is a sanitizer but is not a cleaner.If you use chempro or Lidl oxy you still should use an actual sanitizer.

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/chemipro-oxi-no-rinse-cleaner-sterilizer-1-kg-1628-p.asp

Despite the misleading title if you read the text you will see that Chempro is indeed a "cleaner" not a "sanitizer". To sanitize something you have to actually kill bacteria etc.,neither Lidl oxy or Chempro do this,Starsan does.

Here we go again on the topic. W5 is made of mainly sodium percarbonate. The quote is taken from JP how to brew.

Percarbonates
Sodium percarbonate is sodium carbonate (i.e. Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda) reacted with hydrogen peroxide and it is a very effective cleaner for all types of brewing equipment. It rinses easily. Several products (e.g. Straight-A, Powder Brewery Wash, B-Brite, and One-Step) are approved by the FDA as cleaners in food-manufacturing facilities. One-Step is labeled as a light cleaner and final rinse agent, and produces hydrogen peroxide in solution. Hydrogen peroxide will effectively sanitize surfaces and containers that are already clean. As with all sanitizers, the effectiveness of hydrogen peroxide as a sanitizing agent is comprimised by organic soil. Use these cleaners according to the manufacturer's instructions, but generally use one tablespoon per gallon (4 ml per liter) and rinse after cleaning.

In my opinion, percarbonate-based cleaners are the best choice for equipment cleaning, and Straight-A from Logic Inc., and Powder Brewery Wash (PBW) from Five Star Chemicals, Inc. are the best of them. These products combine sodium metasilicate with the percarbonate in a stable form which increases its effectivity and prevents the corrosion of metals like copper and aluminum that strong alkaline solutions can cause.

Now it does both. Depending on how soiled the equipment is use it once to de-soil and once more to sanitize. Then rinse (i rinse with cold water then hot).The only non rinse solution is vaporised H202. If you have something dripping in starsan in contact with beer of course it will contaminate it, but to what discernible level. The next time the people doing the off flavors as part of the judging they could spike some beer with it.

Sodium percarbonate is not available in high enough concentration in any of the products mentioned in order to provide enough pure hydrogen peroxide to effectively sanitize anything,it simply isn't. That quote tells me nothing and frankly is misleading,there are no scientific facts or data to back that up,such as telling me how much sodium percarbonate and of what purity and what contact time would be required to effectively sanitize,sanitize/disinfect/clean three completely different things.

Sorry Hoss but you are going to have to do better than a very general and broad sweeping quote with no data backup from a brewing book,show me a peer reviewed scientific paper or article or such with the required data.

There is a big reason(but not the only one) that sodium percarbonate afaik is not used in the pro brewing industry or food related industry as a sanitizer,that is it doesn't sanitize. 

[Covey]

I hate to be the fly in the ointment again but neither Chempro (afaik)or Lidl W5 are sanitizers,they are briliant oxygen based cleaners but that is a they are is cleaners,i use the Lidl stuff myself. Starsan is a sanitizer but is not a cleaner.If you use chempro or Lidl oxy you still should use an actual sanitizer.

http://www.homebrewwest.ie/chemipro-oxi-no-rinse-cleaner-sterilizer-1-kg-1628-p.asp

Despite the misleading title if you read the text you will see that Chempro is indeed a "cleaner" not a "sanitizer". To sanitize something you have to actually kill bacteria etc.,neither Lidl oxy or Chempro do this,Starsan does.

Here we go again on the topic. W5 is made of mainly sodium percarbonate. The quote is taken from JP how to brew.

Percarbonates
Sodium percarbonate is sodium carbonate (i.e. Arm and Hammer Super Washing Soda) reacted with hydrogen peroxide and it is a very effective cleaner for all types of brewing equipment. It rinses easily. Several products (e.g. Straight-A, Powder Brewery Wash, B-Brite, and One-Step) are approved by the FDA as cleaners in food-manufacturing facilities. One-Step is labeled as a light cleaner and final rinse agent, and produces hydrogen peroxide in solution. Hydrogen peroxide will effectively sanitize surfaces and containers that are already clean. As with all sanitizers, the effectiveness of hydrogen peroxide as a sanitizing agent is comprimised by organic soil. Use these cleaners according to the manufacturer's instructions, but generally use one tablespoon per gallon (4 ml per liter) and rinse after cleaning.

In my opinion, percarbonate-based cleaners are the best choice for equipment cleaning, and Straight-A from Logic Inc., and Powder Brewery Wash (PBW) from Five Star Chemicals, Inc. are the best of them. These products combine sodium metasilicate with the percarbonate in a stable form which increases its effectivity and prevents the corrosion of metals like copper and aluminum that strong alkaline solutions can cause.

Now it does both. Depending on how soiled the equipment is use it once to de-soil and once more to sanitize. Then rinse (i rinse with cold water then hot).The only non rinse solution is vaporised H202. If you have something dripping in starsan in contact with beer of course it will contaminate it, but to what discernible level. The next time the people doing the off flavors as part of the judging they could spike some beer with it.

Sodium percarbonate is not available in high enough concentration in any of the products mentioned in order to provide enough pure hydrogen peroxide to effectively sanitize anything,it simply isn't. That quote tells me nothing and frankly is misleading,there are no scientific facts or data to back that up,such as telling me how much sodium percarbonate and of what purity and what contact time would be required to effectively sanitize,sanitize/disinfect/clean three completely different things.

Sorry Hoss but you are going to have to do better than a very general and broad sweeping quote with no data backup from a brewing book,show me a peer reviewed scientific paper or article or such with the required data.

There is a big reason(but not the only one) that sodium percarbonate afaik is not used in the pro brewing industry or food related industry as a sanitizer,that is it doesn't sanitize. 

W5 is a very good Cleaner/sanitizer cleaner for home brewing. it's a fact loads of people on here and else where use it for that purpose.If its data your after then look to the 1000's of infection free batches that have been brewed on equipment sanitized using W5. If your looking for a scientific paper on it i cant help you, but then again no one...... can they (wtf is a hoss?)