Propane or Electric ?

[Greg2013]

So how many boils and what time do you get out of a full yellow cylinder?

[newToBrew]

hey Deadman - so your weighing up the pros and cons of which route to take.. I've been here and this is my 2 cents worth

Cyinder Gas

Tube ? (some one) did a cost analysis before on another site  measuring the costs of cylinder gas Vs electric V's mains gas before – dunno where the post is but as noted earlier  - mains gas – electric – cylinder gas

If you go down the route of the cylinder – you need some kind of burner attached to it
I looked at them before and if I remember right they were pricey enough


they may have had safety  cut offs – can't remember really – its been a while

here is a link to an example  (factor in postage yourself)

http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Large_Square_Gas_Boiling_Ring.html

I know I shouldn't.. But this has been discussed by members here over on beoir in the past issues from people having poor performance to discussing the best one available, to changing jets for propane ones to suit butane gas 

If you got a burner with no safety cut off  - your really restricting yourself to brewing outdoors in my opinion and lets face it – this is the oul boggy sod

Also when brewing you are tied to watching it more closely than if it was electric ( has the flame gone out ??)

When I brew outdoors – I've gone off and painted fences !! indoors – I've cooked meals !! 

There is also the cost involved – at around 30 – 35 quid a cylinder – your looking at laying out 70 quid ( would need a spare as discussed )

Then whatever the burner costs

So.. that's the cylinder side of it from what I can see


Electric

Kegs V's Buckets

I eventually decided to do what Dylan did in the 70's – I went electric..

My next crossroads was a Keg or bucket, I started down the Keg route – sourced some, cut open the top, used a (few) holesaw(s)

This cost me some homebrew for Kegs – a few quid for the Discs ( have angle grinder) and a few quid for the  hole saws ( I didn't go slow enough and wore out 2 I think )
Lets say @ 20 quid
That and the time it took to cut out the top and run to the local diy store after I had worn out the first discs ! and the time it took to run back and get more hole saws !!!

Elements : 2 options
Buy 2 Argos Ketles for @ 7 quid each
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9016710/Trail/searchtext%3EKETTLE.htm

take em apart OR go to a local electrical store and buy some for around 15 quid each

I went down the argos route – but didn't like the exposed parts – I was concerned with boil overs – liquid and leccy !! – but others here use them quiet successfully – I will chance most things but not electricity – so I bought 2 elements in Wallaces here in Waterford
Cost @ 30 quid in total

Next Leads –

use p.c. leads if you can get them – they get quiet warm and there are arguments out there for and against – not going into that
Or
Buy them – Wallaces are a tenner a go
Or hold onto the leads from the Argos Kettles and buy  the kettle connections – Wallaces - @ a fiver each

Buckets

I tried inserting my 2 elements in the kettle but could not stop the leaks, I made silicone washers – but because of the curve on the keg and the short thread on the element on the outside wall of the keg I could not get a tight enough grip on it – I did consider changing out the plastic washers on the elements for steel – brass whatever – but elected not to as  the threds on the elements were also plastic so I figured If I over tightened I would just break the threads and ruin the element  - I have sen pics of people her who have successfully put the Argos elements in the Kegs

So.. I opted for a 33 litre FV – got it free with a wine Kit I was making for people one Christmas
Anyway – once I got that I had my boil kettle made in @ 20 minutes – used a felt marker to trace around the element on the bucket and a Stanley blade to cut out the holes – some silicone washers from  a baking tray  and I was off !!
The bucket gets quiet soft when in use so its not a good idea to move it
I have used it for over a year now and it s fine

Also I do not have a dedicated brew space – so when not in use all my equipment is in storage – and it is easier to lug about a plastic bucket than a Keg ( even if it is empty )
Also I share my equipment with a buddy so it does spend some time in transit too

Sorry about the "Dear Diary "  response
I did spend quiet some time asking the same questions as you (of the same guys )

I got sound advice – but each persons equipment decisions comes down to a few things
1. money
2. time
3. space
4. Building Capabilities
Hope this helps !!!

[Garry]

I eventually decided to do what Dylan did in the 70's – I went electric..

That's before my time, but I laughed when I got it

Excellent post newToBrew [smiley=beer.gif] You might need to change your name though? You don't sound that new to brew? 

[Greg2013]

Cheers New for that. Some interesting points. It would be interesting to see a cost analysis of electricity versus propane for a 30 litre boil per hour. That more than anything would interest me. There are advantages to both. With some common sense one is no more dangerous IMHO than the other.

The bid advantage for me with the propane/ butane is portability. The disadvantage is potentially running out mid boil. I decided to look into this as a future prospect for all grain. Kind of a case of, if I were to  get my hands on a couple of kegs what would the best route be sort of thing.

Tbh I am finding it hard to get specific cost information from any source though your post certainly gave food for thought. Setup cost is not what I am after as I can calculate that now,its what would it cost on a boil to boil basis.

[Greg2013]

While using the leccy is easier and initially cheaper for us here in the ails sod, in the long run is it more efficient than gas and is it cheaper,all for a 30 litre boil which I am using as my benchmark volume.

[Greg2013]

Using your figures tube gas is 2.5 times the cost of electricity for the same boil volume, interesting. Is that from room temperature up to boil?

[Will_D]

One thing no-one has mentioned when you first go to the gas supplier you pay double: €35 for the bottle and €35 for the fill.

So if you want 2 bottles thats €140!!

[Greg2013]

Yes and thanks but that's setup costs which you are correct are expensive for gas. Really its the day to day costs I am after.

Ok according to the ESB to heat a 120 litre immersion once per day for the 61 day bill cycle costs 12.86 euro per bill. Thats 120 x 60( approx) that's 7200 litres of water from room temp to near boil for 13 euro

[newToBrew]

I eventually decided to do what Dylan did in the 70's – I went electric..

That's before my time, but I laughed when I got it

Excellent post newToBrew [smiley=beer.gif] You might need to change your name though? You don't sound that new to brew? 

ah like the tag says - there's always something new to do !!!!

that's just my experience & opinion of the whole boil kettle - I still have loads to learn - I'm sure there are others who's experiences and opinions are  are different  and better informed

[newToBrew]

hey deadman - these are the elements I used

think they are slightly cheaper in town  but from the pic you prob get a better idea of what I meant by parts not being exposed and the plastic nut and all that