"Freeze distillation"

[admin]

It's coming up to that time of the year again where I want to make a strong winter stout. I did one last year, 8.5% abv and then "freeze distilled" it (i.e. concentrated it by freezing and removing ice) and the maths showed it was in the 15% region. But the end result wasn't great as I felt than in removing the ice I was removing other stuff (the ice wasn't 100% clear) which might have been tasty.

Has anyone else produced a really nice beer by "freeze distillation"?

Concentration by freezing is something that's relatively undiscussed in this country, because there is the incorrect perception that it's somehow illegal.

[Stitch]

Only tried it once to make a hop extract but the left over ice was very green and I felt something was left behind but as I was only interested in the vodka that I used to remove extract I was not too concerned.

I was wondering though about freeze distillation does that not give you some of the higher alcohols that lead to bad hang-overs? I thought that was the purpose of the normal distillation (say with a pot still)?

[Rossa]

I tried it an Eisbock. Didn't end up with a great end product though.

[Blackbrew]

Only tried it once to make a hop extract but the left over ice was very green and I felt something was left behind but as I was only interested in the vodka that I used to remove extract I was not too concerned.

I was wondering though about freeze distillation does that not give you some of the higher alcohols that lead to bad hang-overs? I thought that was the purpose of the normal distillation (say with a pot still)?

similar question came up on BasicBrewingRadio episode around concentration of methanol in freeze distillation, they asked a scientist and after a long complex answer it was deemed as not really an issue.

[Blackbrew]

I have made apple jack and ginger jack both blew my head off! only kept the first running (maybe 100ml from 500ml bottle) the flavour and alc was defiantly concentrated. The second runnings were more watery but still had flavour, but i preferred the undiluted kick from the initial liquid.

Never attempted this with a beer..yet...

[Spud395]

With normal distillation it's common practice to discard the tops and tails, getting rid of the methanol.
There is no way to do this with freeze distillation.
Saying that with a 15% beer that shouldnt be much of a problem.
Sink the Bismark and the likes should contain a fair shot of methanol, if you were to knock back a few pints of it 

[Shanna]

Does the "Sink the bismark" actually contain Methanol? Methanol is poisonous and as little as 10ml can cause blindness and 100ml death. It breaks down in to formaldehyde (think yellow lab rats as this is used to preserve them).

With normal distillation it's common practice to discard the tops and tails, getting rid of the methanol.
There is no way to do this with freeze distillation.
Saying that with a 15% beer that shouldnt be much of a problem.
Sink the Bismark and the likes should contain a fair shot of methanol, if you were to knock back a few pints of it 

[Eoin]

The same as 30 pints of 5% beer might also be unhealthy.

Phew, lucky I always stop at 29, just to be safe.

[Blackbrew]

Guys have been thinking more about this of late, was wondering how do you know the ABV of the beer post freeze distillation? Would a hydro still give an indication or is it refractometer or something else?

[Blackbrew]

Would this put the starter beer for Sink the Bismark @ around 5%ABV with 4 freeze steps...5%-10%-20%-40%

Could a standard chest freezer work on a 20% ABV beer or is that going to be the limit for homebrewers?

[Blackbrew]

Wiki says

"Most household freezers maintain temperatures from -10 to 0 °F (-23 to -18 °C),"

Might be a runner.. now to figure out the hopping levels..

[UpsidedownA (Andrew)]

Guys have been thinking more about this of late, was wondering how do you know the ABV of the beer post freeze distillation? Would a hydro still give an indication or is it refractometer or something else?

Could you work it out like this:
A 500ml bottle of 5% ABV would contain 25ml of pure alcohol. So water content is 475ml. If freezing removes half the water and none of the alcohol, the resultant product has 25ml alcohol and 237.5 ml water, so 9.5%.

[Blackbrew]

Well it's ready!

15 litres down to 3! In 3 concentration steps. It's a very interesting beer slighty sweet and not as hoppy as i thought it would be. Very thick mouthfeel and hot as it goes down the throat but not so much on the tongue, very complex deep flavors. Am going to bring a bottle to the next Rebel meet in Cork.

[Blackbrew]

Not really started around 7 so maybe around 35% could be less though not that harsh to my taste just hot on the throat and makes the ears glow a bit so maybe 20ish....

[LordEoin]

I triple jacked a stout and thought that the flavors were just oo much to be enjoyable.
Check THIS VIDEO out for a tour of the brewdog freezers.