Super-genius or dumb idea?

[Parky]

Cool, I'd certainly be interested in hearing how it goes with the LME. Only tip I can give you is to watch that boiling wort like a hawk 

[SlugTrap]

No concerns around not sanitizing the DME in the boil?

That would be my worry...

[Parky]

No concerns around not sanitizing the DME in the boil?

Sure, that's a fair point, and the sanitisation of the fermentables was certainly something that had crossed my mind. This brew day was very much a 'proof of concept', and finding a way to improve the process will be something I'll be working on next time around for sure.

My thinking is to borrow a technique some folks use when kit brewing, and use the boiling hop wort (or additional boiling water) to effectively pasteurise the DME (or LME) and other fermentables in the FV. There are numerous videos online showing this approach, but I think the one from Craigtube here (watch from 08.40 mins onwards) is a good example of what I'll be aiming at.

[SlugTrap]

No concerns around not sanitizing the DME in the boil?

Sure, that's a fair point, and the sanitisation of the fermentables was certainly something that had crossed my mind. This brew day was very much a 'proof of concept', and finding a way to improve the process will be something I'll be working on next time around for sure.

My thinking is to borrow a technique some folks use when kit brewing, and use the boiling hop wort (or additional boiling water) to effectively pasteurise the DME (or LME) and other fermentables in the FV. There are numerous videos online showing this approach, but I think the one from Craigtube here (watch from 08.40 mins onwards) is a good example of what I'll be aiming at.

Hey, if it works, it works. Interested to try it myself now.

[Dunkel]

So tried this tonight. My take on Parky's recipe:-

1.5 kg pouch LME
400 g flaked wheat
400 g wheat malt

15 g Saaz hops @ 60 min (14 IBU)

Mangrove Jack M20 Bavarian Wheat yeast

OK, trying to make this difficult for myself with a large speciality grain bill. Because of this, split into two muslin bags.
Put 1.5 l  water into a 2.5 l saucepan, and 1 l into a 1.5 l saucepan. Both pots brought up to 71 C; grain bags added. Steeped for 30 mins, dunking every 10 mins. Then removed grain bags to colander over another pot.
Poured contents of smaller saucepan into larger - total 1.0 l. Brought to boil.
Added hop pellets loose, nearly boiled over. Turned down to simmer and covered with saucepan lid.
Added drainings from colander (300 ml) and 500 ml boiling water. While boiling, sanitized fermenter.
5 mins to go, sanitized 2 l jug and flour sifter. Added 5 l tap water (@ 15 C) to fermenter. Sanitized scissors and LME pouch (I use the Craft Range LME, as I think it's the best). Poured LME into fermenter and mixed - tough going - maybe the pouch should be warmed first, but this will affect (probably only slightly) the final pitching temperature.
After 60 mins boil, strained hop tea into jug, then poured into emptied LME pouch to get all the gloopy goodness out. Into FV, for a total of 8 l. Topped up to 11.5 l. OG 1048 at 22 C. Did not rehydrate yeast - trying to keep it simple.
Result - 11.5 l wort using just equipment found in the kitchen. Started at 6.40 pm, finished (including clean up) at 8.52 pm. For this beer, a 45 minute boil would probably do, knocking 15 minutes off.
With a simpler speciality grain bill e.g. an IPA, just the 2.5 l saucepan should work.

      Now hopefully the resulting beer will taste decent .... 

[Parky]

Fantastic!!!, great work Dunkel 


It's wonderful to see that a beer can be brewed at home with basic brewing gear and a few pieces of kitchenware. And at around two hours duration it means brewers can be flexible, and don't have to wait until the weekend to scratch that brewing itch.


Like you say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and I'm looking forward to tasting the finished product 

[Parky]

I bottled the hefeweissen last night after 18 days in primary (see earlier posting for recipe and method). The FG came out at 1.012, so not too far off the mark. Batch primed with table sugar to give a carbonation level of approx. 3 vols, which is fairly typical for this style.


The Safbrew T-58 yeast used can be a bit hit and miss in terms of flavour in my experience, but I was actually surprised at how good this tasted straight out of the FV. The plan had been to add some citrus peel to the brew, but on the basis of the first tasting I decided to leave it to do it's own thing.


Early days yet, but here are some tasting notes -


Appearance: Hazy straw colour with tight foam head when agitated.
Aroma: Hop dominant, slightly earthy and herbal, but subtle banana in the background.
Taste: Too early to tell, but the hops dominate with a nice banana flavour on the finish.
Mouthfeel: Medium body and slightly creamy
Overall: Surprised at how nice the initial tasting was, may have gone a bit OTT on the flavour/aroma hops, but we'll see how they mellow over time, and that nice banana finish is a welcome counterbalance to the hopping.


Note on bittering: One goal in this trial was to achieve an appropriate level of bittering using a smaller boil volume. I've no way to objectively measure level of bitterness, but can say that the bittering felt 'about right' for the initial malt/sweetness of the brew.

[Dunkel]

Keep us posted, Parky! My brew stalled at 1020; so repitched with yeast nutrient and Mangrove Jack Workhorse yeast yesterday evening. Seems to have done something, as slowly bubbling this morning.

[molc]

1020 really is a magic number for stalling isn't it. Had one or two stop there as well.

[Parky]

[Update: 10 August 2015]



First taste testing, almost two weeks after bottling. The brew carbed up nicely and that hop domination has blended more fully, giving a more balanced flavour. This turned out to be a very nice beer indeed, with a warm banana and caramel flavour - think Banoffee Pie in a glass 

Some tasting notes to compare with the last taste test -

Appearance: Hazy caramel brown colour with loose foam head, dissipating quickly, but leaving some lacing on the glass.
Aroma: Warm caramel and banana flavour, with slight spicy fragrence on the end.
Taste: Similar to aroma, there is a warmth there of banana and sweet caramel followed by a slight spicy tartness, balancing the sweetness and giving a refreshing finish.
Mouthfeel: Medium body, creamy initially, but with a lighter, refreshing finish. Good carbonation throughout, which helped to cut through some of that creamy sweetness.
Overall: Pleased with how this turned out, a very drinkable beer, with a good mix of sweetness and tartness. I tasted this chilled and at room temp. and by far prefer this beer at room temp as it really brings out the warmth of the caramel and banana.

Note on bittering: There was indeed some bittering there, and certainly was appropriate for the style and well balanced with the overall taste and feel of the beer.

The million dollar question of course is - Would I brew it again? - Damn right!!!, one of the nicest beers I've brewed in months, great flavour from such a simple brewing technique (thanks Dunkel!), and so easy to put together. My next attempt at using this technique here, is a bit more complicated, but if it's half as good as this beer I'll be pleased.

[Parky]

[Update: 24 August 2015]

In addition to the above Hefeweissen, and the Old English Ale here, I had intended to test this brewing technique for a hoppy pale ale, to see if it would be suited to producing big hop flavours and aromas. But after tasting the Old English Ale it's become apparent that although it lends itself to a no-fuss brew day using basic kit, this 'small boil' technique has it's limitations.

Having tasted the English Ale, the principal limitation seems to be around producing enough bitterness to offset the malt sweetness of many styles. Not even a 60 minute boil of a relatively high alpha hop (10.7%) in a low gravity wort (1.010) seemed enough to produce the desired effect.

The flavour and aroma of the hops in the English Ale were somewhat muted, and really didn't come through at all on the initial tasting. I can only assume that the very small boil volume (1.5 L of wort) wasn't enough to extract the required flavour.

The Hefeweissen previously brewed was very good indeed with regards to flavour and aroma, but just didn't have a great amount of bittering - then again it didn't really need to. So, while I'm not sure I'll be using this exact technique again it did manage to produce a very good beer, and one I'm still enjoying.

So, what's the verdict?
Well, I gave this brewing method a fair go, as it seemed it could be an ideal way for brewers to make the transition from kits to extract without investing in a huge amount of kit. Unfortunately, it became apparent that the method (in it's present form) wasn't able to produce some of the elements we love in a beer - flavour, aroma, and an appropriate bittering level. In saying that however, it was a fun experiment, and I learned a lot that I'll be using in future brews.

So, in summing up, my one piece of advice to anyone wanting to try out extract brewing - buy a bigger pot!!! 

[JayMc]

Great thread, definitely going to try this for my next extract brew.

[djanto]

a great thread guys, well done. it took me back in time about 30 years when i used to borrow my mums largest pot which was probably around 8L and take it to the shed where we had the gas cooker (in case of esb cuts lol) where i operated a similar technique to brew my concoctions, Easons on O'Connell st was a good source in those days as well as mail order from the UK. no internet in those days for sourcing exotic hops etc but we were students so money was tight and home brewing got us suitably inebriated lol