Oxygen Tanks and Regulators

[Dr Jacoby]

I'm looking into putting together an oxygen aeration system based on the kit sold by Williams Brewing in the States. They don't ship to Ireland and I reckon it can be done cheaper. 

Here's what I had in mind. First, buy a stainless steel racking cane like this one and a stainless steel air stone like this one and connect them with some tubing. This is a little tricky since the air stone takes 6mm tubing and the racking cane is 10mm in diameter, but I contacted John in Hop & Grape and he sent me a pick of an improvised set up where two short pieces of tube are connected to form an air tight seal.

After that all that is needed is some tubing to connect the other end of the racking cane to a regulator connected to an oxygen cylinder. Disposable cylinders are easy to get in the States but I haven't had much luck sourcing cheap ones here. The best I could do was this disposable one from Scientific & Chemical Supplies. I spoke with one of their salespeople and he told me it would cost €82. We worked out that if the cylinder was used for 60 second blasts for each brew, it would last at least 60 - 70 brews. The problem is you'd have to buy a regulator, and the ones quoted in their catalogue are around €50.

So I thought I'd see if any one you know of a cheaper source for oxygen cylinders and regulators. I did stumble across this one in the UK, which can be used with this regulator, but it doesn't work out as cheap over the long term.

I'd prefer to get this stuff in Ireland if possible but I'll certainly consider other options.

I should say that I'm really only looking into this as a way to improve my set-up. If it turns out to be too expensive or too much hassle I'm happy to stick with the usual techniques for aerating wort prior to fermentation. It doesn't hurt to day dream   

[Padraic]

Oxygen is used in hospitals, I know people get oxygen tanks to bring home with them so someone must supply these tanks, it would be interesting to find out if it was possible to get a supplier.

Would you not need an aerating stone?

Stainless steel from hop and grape: http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/public/detailv1.asp?itemcode=AER20221540

Will a racking tube suffice?

[Dr Jacoby]

Oxygen is used in hospitals, I know people get oxygen tanks to bring home with them so someone must supply these tanks, it would be interesting to find out if it was possible to get a supplier.

Would you not need an aerating stone?

Stainless steel from hop and grape: http://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/public/detailv1.asp?itemcode=AER20221540

Will a racking tube suffice?

The main oxygen suppliers in Ireland are BOC and Air Products (as far as I can tell) but they seem very expensive. I think it might be cheaper to get welder's gas, which is fine to use since pure oxygen is sterile.

I linked to a stainless steal air stone in the post above. It's an essential component for forming oxygen bubbles small enough to oxygenate the wort efficiently.

[Dr Jacoby]

I know someone in a scuba diving club and they get O2 from the local hospital. I'm not sure if they pay for it either , but I'll ask.

Cool. Sounds good.

[Will_D]

BOC Gas Supplies

Postby Will_D » 19 Oct 2012 23:50
I was over at BOC in Ballymun (next to Musgraves C&C) sorting out a welding gas contract.

What a change in corporate attitude ( at least in Ballymun )

The depot is run by Owen, who can even out talk me!! Very friendly and WILL NOT TURN away business.

This was always a major critisism of BOC towards private brewers/welders even if you would be willing to pay THEY didn't want your business.

The forms even have a tick box for "Private Individual"
as well as Sole trader, Ltd Co., Mega corporation etc.

All you need to open an account is proof of ID (Passport or Driving License) and your bank account details as you WILL sign a direct debit mandate.

Now for the costs of a bottle of gas ( a bit bigger than a 6 Kg CO2 cyclinder:

Rental is €76 per year ( inc vat ) and a fill of 25/75 Stout gass is €34 ( inc vat )

Once you open the account you can then add any other gases ( excluding the medical selection !!! ).

So if you want CO2, Lager gass ( 50/50) or food grade Oxygen then its just the rental and the fills.

I was told my Argon cylinder ( slightly smaller than the Pubmix cylinders ) contains 2,400 litres of gas at STP. Assuming I was using pubmix in same bottle size then WITHOUT carbonation ( so no disolution loss ) it would dispense 2,400 litres of beer.

HTH

Will

[Tucan]

If they were willing to accept a brew club as the account holder then the members could refill trough the club.that would spread the rental cost and give access to refils for members.

[Padraic]

And will they spread that rental cost, i took that to mean one canister..

[Will_D]

Rental is €76 per year ( inc vat )

That's the off-putting bit.

Is there also "account maintenance" of something like €5 a month?

Not as far as I know. When the account paperwork arrives then I will update you.

Will

[Will_D]

If they were willing to accept a brew club as the account holder then the members could refill trough the club.that would spread the rental cost and give access to refils for members.

No way. The account ( in my case ) is for one cylinder rental per year for welding gas. If and when I want say oxy/acetylen cylinders then it s 2 more rentals per year. If I then want some oxygen then its another rental.

Once you have set up the account and direct debit then adding rentals is no problem.

For refills you either just pay on the day or it goes onto your account ( no probs for BOC as the have a DD mandate )

Just to pedantically clear: They will NOT fill cylinders that they have NOT rented to you. Even if they are in date, BOC cylinders that you "somehow" aquired. They will just take them off you. Non BOC or out of date BOC with no account then again no way!

Hope this clears things up

Will

[Will_D]

If they were willing to accept a brew club as the account holder then the members could refill trough the club.that would spread the rental cost and give access to refils for members.

That's a good idea, but will they refill tanks they haven't supplied?

To answer this specifically:

A brew club could register, rent say 6 bottles of gas, say 2 of each:  CO2, Lager Mix(50/50), Stout mix (25/75).

These cold then be shared/lent around the membership. When a bottle emptied then it would be refilled but only the rented/contracted 6 bottles could be used.

Will

[Partridge9]

If you had some way to 'divvy' out the big bottle into four non BOC bottles then you would be in business - but its got accident wrote all over it.

Its 30€ in Doyle and Doyle right ? So if your not using more than two refills a year it seems like a lot of effort.

On the up side - you will have a very shiny new BOC gas cyclinder - but downside is the cost and hassle.

If we got a deal of something like 10 kegs for 50 each and ran it though the HBC account - it might work - could link it up with membership as well.

Great work on the research Will - its nice to see different options.