COLD break driving me demented! [edited title]

[beardybrewer]

I've been extract brewing for 8 years but in the last year something has changed causing an overzealous hot-break I can't figure out: change in DME brand, grains, hops, whirlfloc vs. irish moss?

Today I brewed my Armarillo-heavy IPA: http://lounge111.net/Brew/ViewLog.aspx?ID=74

Had a huge amount of hot-break material.  There was a gummy wad of it in the tap I removed when I cleaned up.  It's not hops, I'm not sure what it is, just gummy bound up proteins?  Lots of it ends up in the fermenter and I'm leaving the last 1-2 litres behind because it's filled with so much material.  This seems hugely wasteful.



Is this egg-drop soup looking stuff the hot-break?  Should I just ignore it?  How can I lessen it?  I've tried new micro mesh hop bags and whole leaf hops but this makes no difference.  Should I rinse my speciality grains thoroughly?  There is often a lot of powder I can shake from the muslin bag.  Any other ideas?  Could the whirlfloc tablets be too effective?  When I stir it to draw it off the sides it doesn't work, just instantly breaks apart and becomes inseparable from the liquid.

How can I avoid this?  Or what should I do?  This has been frustrating me for a long while and I could really do with some help / advice.

[Tom]

Could be you were not getting enough hot break before? Did you change elements, or add another?

[irish_goat]

How long do you leave it in the kettle before transferring to the fermenter? When I started I used to rush to get it to the fermenter as quickly as possible and would get a lot of gunk transferred over. Now I leave it a good half an hour and find it settles down a good bit and you get a lot less wastage.

[Leann ull]

How much whirlfloc are you using, for 25 litres it should be 40-50% of 1 tablet, Homebrewers, myself included up to a couple of years back, have a bad habit of chucking in a full one.

[Simon_]

Is more hot break / cold break not better than less? Won't it just result in a clearer beer?
What's wrong with a full tab per 25L?

[Leann ull]

Excess protofloc causes clumping like brains stripping out all proteins, it can also impact on head retention, its beer style and quality of grain dependant but even tho its a pita to cut in half added with 10 mins to go in the boil that should be your starting point.
Guys on Jims where you posted will give you the same answer
Try a half in you next brew, go on I dare ya!

[Frequent Sequence]

That looks a lot like  cold break to me. Have you changed your chilling lately?
Or perhaps you aren't achieving a full rolling boil. If you don't boil thoroughly and form the hot break the proteins will form much more cold break. 

Hot break looks like little flecks about the size of your little finger nail.
cold break looks like egg drop soup with much larger clumps.

[beardybrewer]

Thanks for so many replies so fast, I have come here sooner.

It's entirely possible I'm using the wrong term and that it is cold break.  My chiller is the same and winter/summer it's been the same so i wouldn't think water temp is a factor.  Really what's changed in the last year is me moving from a UK supplier H&G to HBC for DME, hops, and grains.  I use the HBC extract kits (the brown ale kit with 3kg wheat makes a great combo) which include a full whirlfloc tablet per kit I thought.  So I was just copying that, before I was using irish moss.  So I might try irish moss again and see if I don't have such a strong result.  For a while there I thought it was pellet hops which I've dumped.  Also my caramel malts and such, there can be a lot of powder there... should I try to minimize that or even rinse it before soaking?

What is the best practice?  Feck it in the cold break?  Keep it out?  Try to lessen it? 

[Frequent Sequence]

As ciderhead said just use half a tab. The powder in your specialty grains is just flour no need to rinse.

Are achieving a full rolling boil?

It also may be because wheat has more protein than barley. both hot and cold break are primarily made up from proteins.

it's best to siphon off the clear wort from above the cold break as it can lead to early faster spoiling.
but achieving a good hot break will denature the proteins so the cold break wont form this what you should aim for.
correct dose of finings and vigorous boil are the key to this.

[beardybrewer]

Thanks for the info.  Yes, the water is getting a good rolling boil for 60 minutes as per my recipe link.  Thanks for confirming my assumption that the cold break is something best to avoid entering the fermenter.  Also for confirming not to worry about the flour/dust in the speciality grains.  I've been relying on filling my BetterBottle right up and using a blow off to get rid of as much krausen as possible but obviously it is no good to be forced to do this for every recipe.  For the record I'm using a copper chiller which typically works quite well bringing the water from a boil to mid-20s in less than an hour (much faster in winter).  I'm really interested to see what returning to irish moss or indeed no finnings will have on the problem the next brew.

[Leann ull]

Your chill is taking an hour have you low pressure or something or 8mm copper chiller
Most are in the 20-30 min territory
try stir a little whirlpool just to get some flow going?

[beardybrewer]

Is that really so slow?  As I said it's well faster in winter when the water is like ice.  I don't run it with too much pressure, water charges don't ya know!  This is what I have although it was many years ago so it may be slightly different now: https://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/immersion-wort-chiller.html

Often I'm cleaning and doing other stuff so don't worry if I don't get to the yeast for an hour.  Would you recommend a rethink on that?

[johnrm]

Hey Beardy Weirdy, I've seen the exact same post on 2 other forums, must be a common problem!

Are we talking about he white stuff on the paddle?
I notice it seems to be on the handle too.

[beardybrewer]

No, that's just the muslin bag with the aroma hops.  I didn't realize how active it was here.  Great to see such a strong homebrew community in Ireland.  A lots happened in the last 10 years!

[johnrm]

Feck it looks like a Poached Egg!
Cut your whirlfloc by half in your next batch, see if you are going in the right direction.