National Homebrew Club Ireland

Would any one be interested in a Beer Judge course?

I'd love for us to have about 10 judges from our own ranks who are well versed in BJCP, preferrably qualified judges.

So who would be interested and how best could we run this course?

"how best could we run this course?"

How are they typically run?
i.e. Is it intensive, over a period or distance?
Ballpark costs?
I would be interested, but may be tied with logistics.

I think I'd like to get the qualification, though I'd be keen to enter a few more competitions before becoming a judge. Will running them be a once off, or will the option be there to run them occasionally?

QuoteHow are they typically run?

Not sure if there are any courses preparing you for that even in states or uk. There is a bunch of pdf's and word docs on bjcp.org site that you can use. That would be a starting point...

I'd like to learn more!

Just like John, all would depend on logistics/ costs.

Sounds good though

I'd be very interested

Love one, sign me up id price is affordable / comparable to that else where 2 r 300 dollars i think.
Ive done the MBAA beer stewards course, can be done online.
this could be a great start/ stepping stone to build up to a judge course.

Keep me informed of any options that would remove the requirement to travel to uk or elsewhere to sit course / exams.

Ill donate my studio / training centre in Kildare for the course if it helps keep costs down.

We can produce (write) our own course and have it acreddited by outside body. I think theres enough skills around the club to teach the course well (scores of 45 in B&C) world class style cloners, surely we can learn to taste / judge beer within our group. Next step outside / independant acredditation.............
There are plenty of acreddited colleges that would independantly moderate written exam papers from other institutions, this would  alow us to not have to travel for written exams and save significant costs associated with commuting abroad to sit the required practical exams.

The practical end of things is different, we would need to see how we can pass tasting exams.

Other suggestion is to learn ourselves and travel as a group ( say a minibus) to the UK to sit exams in an existing school.

worth checking all the options available

http://www.mbaa.com/education/beersteward/about/Pages/beermaster.aspx

have a look around this site, this course coming up will be online soon.
The associate beer stewards course is the theory bit and this proposed course on the link includes sensory skills, will be interesting to see how it works.

http://www.mbaa.com/store/Pages/tasting.aspx

and heres their professional books to teach u how to taste without a practical course.

Theres a few ideas on the site as to how we might approach a training course.
Im sure their courses could be purchased at discount or base our own course on theirs..

Ill bring all my course paperwork with me thursday but have a look at the site in the meantime

I was going to start this thread in a day or two but as its started : lets all slow down!

1. The first stage is to download the style guide and various other documents. Read Read Read

2. After a period of time you enrol in the program and take an online exam. Cost is $10. There are 200 true/false or 1 answer multichoice or multi answer/multi choice questions. You have 90 mins to answer!

This is what Padraic has just done.

You are now a "student" judge and can offer to judge in comps, and you will get Judge credits that will be turned into Judge Points after the next stage is passed:

Within a year you must attend a practical tasting exam. Here you will taste three beers and fill out the score sheets. These sheets will be assesed for accuracy, communication back to the entrant etc etc.

If you score more than 80% you can then proceed:

Your judge rank is upped and you now get credits for comps judged. You have to get 10 comps under your belt before the next step:

3. The written exam: You attend and exam centre and have to answer 5 essay style questions and a few multi chice questions in 90 mins.

If you pass you are then a Judge ( of the lowest order )

Now what does this all cost?

Enrollment and the online test is €10

The next cost is getting yourself to an exam centre!

BUT HERES THE BEST BIT:

Talking with Ali, The BJCP has a €50k budget to help train the judges in other countries!

So, As we have just held a megga comp under BJCP rules ( Ali will send feed back to BJCP central ) in time we contact BJCP to request sponsorship of the pratical tasting exam to be held in Ireland and later the written exam!

However be aware that the standards of the BJCP are about as high as a 2:1 or even first degree course!

BTW: You can take the online exam once a day until you pass - just costs 10 bucks and you have to re-register

How about starting a list?

1. Padraic ( Has a head start  ;) )
2. Johnrm
3. Tom
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23
6. brenmurph
7. Will_D

Grand, put me down for a place!

I hope we have to do loads of taste testing to practise for the exams!

BJCP Suggest the following course outline:

QuoteE. BJCP Exam Study Course
Created by Scott Bickham in 1995 for those preparing for the BJCP Legacy Examination. The syllabus is still completely applicable to the three tier BJCP Exam Structure implemented in 2012.
The ten session course outlined below is a modification of ones that have been effective in preparing judges for the BJCP exam. One or two members of the study group are usually assigned to the task of collecting commercial and homebrewed examples of a given style. They should also prepare and distribute handouts that outline the background and characteristics of each style, as well as a technical topic relevant to the exam. All but one of the beers are then served blindly and discussed, with positive and negative attributes identified. After the tasting session, a technical topic concerning ingredients, the brewing process, or beer flavors is reviewed. Finally, the study group takes a mini-exam that consists of two essay questions taken from the BJCP question pool and judges the remaining beer using the BJCP beer scoresheet. The exam questions should be correlated with the style and technical information that was presented in the class, and there should be forty minute time limit that is well-matched to the three hours required for the actual exam. The total time for each class should be approximately three to four hours, depending on the number of commercial examples and depth of the presentations and discussions.
It should also be easy to persuade local beer experts to participate in the review sessions (bribery with free beer is very effective), but the work can also be divided among those studying for the exam. The commercial examples below are based on beers which were available in the Mid-Atlantic in the late 1990s, but a similar collection can be assembled in other geographic areas. The number of beers served in each class should be limited to 8-10, depending on the alcoholic strength and sample size, to prevent palate fatigue and promote responsible drinking. It is also recommended that a flat fee be charged for the class, payable in advance or at the first study session. The Brewers United for Real Potables homebrew club set this fee at $50 for its most recent study course, and while this did not quite cover the actual expenses, the club gladly covered the remainder due to the intangible benefits of having an educated membership. This amount may seem a bit steep from the perspective of the participants, but keep in mind that they are tasting as many as one hundred commercial examples and picking up invaluable information about beers styles and the brewing process.

Class 1. Light Lagers: American Light (Budweiser, Coors, Michelob) and Pre-prohibition Pilsner, Bohemian and German Pilsners (Pilsner Urquell, Bitburger, DeGroen's), Dortmunder Export (Stoudt's Gold), Munich Helles (Augustiner Edelstoff Helles).
Technical topic: Malt, including the malting process, types, adjuncts, kilning and the styles with which different malts are associated.

Class 2. Amber and Dark Lagers: Vienna (Dos Equis, Negra Modelo), Oktoberfest/Märzen (Spaten, Paulaner), Munich Dunkel (Spaten), Schwarzbier (Köstrizer), Bock (Paulaner), Helles/Maibock (Ayinger, Fordham), Doppelbock (Paulaner Salvator, Ayinger Celebrator), Eisbock (Kulmbacher Reichelbraü).
Technical topic: Water, including minerals, pH, hardness, adjustment, and the effect on the development of world beer styles.

Class 3. Bitters and Pale Ales: Ordinary (Boddington's Draught), Special (Young's Ramrod, Fuller's London Pride), ESB (Fuller's), English and American Pale Ales (Bass, Whitbread, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Tupper's Hop Pocket), English and American IPA (Young's Special London Ale, Anchor Liberty, Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale), California Common (Anchor Steam).
Technical topic: Mashing, including types used for different beer styles, mash schedules and enzymes.

Class 4. Brown, Scottish and Strong Scotch Ales: Light and Dark Mild (Grant's Celtic Ale), English and American Brown (Newcastle, Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale, Brooklyn Brown Ale, Pete's Wicked Ale), Scottish Light, Heavy and Export (McEwen's Export, Belhaven, MacAndrew's), Scotch (McEwen's, Traquair House).
Technical topic: Hops, including varieties, IBUs, hopping schedule and the association with different beer styles.

Class 5. Stout and Porter: Dry Stout (Guinness Draught, Murphy's), Sweet Stout (Watney's, Mackeson's), Oatmeal Stout (Anderson Valley Barney Flats, Young's), Foreign and Imperial Stout (Sheaf Stout, Sam Smith's Imperial Stout, Victory Russian Imperial Stout), Brown Porter (Anchor, Sam Smith's Old Taddy Porter), Robust Porter (Sierra Nevada).
Technical topic: Yeast and fermentation, including characteristics of different yeast strains, bacteria, byproducts and relationship to world beer styles.

Class 6. Barleywines and Old Ales: English Old Ale (Theakston's Old Peculier, Thomas Hardy, Hair of the Dog Adambier), English and American Barleywines (Young's Old Nick, Sierra Nevada Bigfoot, Anchor Old Foghorn, Rogue Old Crustacean, Dominion Millennium, Victory Old Horizontal).
Technical topic: Brewing procedures, including sparging, boiling, fining and carbonation methods. Reasons for each should be discussed, along with potential problems.

Class 7. German Ales, Wheat Beers and Rauchbiers: Düsseldorf and North German Alt (Bolten Alt, Fordham Alt), Kölsch (Reissdorf Kölsch), American Wheat (Pyramid Wheathook, Anchor Wheat), Bavarian Weizen (DeGroen's, Paulaner, Victory Sunrise, Schneider Weisse), Dunkelweizen (Hacker-Pschorr), Weizenbock (DeGroens, Schneider Aventinus), Berliner Weiss (Kindl), Bamberger Rauchbier (Kaiserdom,
Schlenkerla).
Technical topic: Troubleshooting I, which includes a discussion of how positive and negative attributes are perceived and produced, the beer styles with which they may be associated and corrective measures. The flavor descriptors on the beer scoresheet or the BJCP Study Guide should be split into two sections.

Class 8. Strong Belgian and French Ales: Dubbel (Affligem, La Trappe), Tripel (Affligem, Westmalle), Strong Golden and Dark Ales (Duvel, Chimay, Orval, Scaldis, La Chouffe), Bière de Garde (Jenlain, 3 Monts), Saison (Saison du Pont).
Technical topic: Troubleshooting II.

Class 9. Other Belgian Ales: Oud Bruin and Flanders Red (Rodenbach Grand Cru, Liefman's Goudenband, Liefman's Framboise), Gueuze and Fruit Lambic (assorted Boon, Cantillon and Mort Subite), Wit (Celis White, Hoegaarden), Pale Ale (Corsendonk Pale, Celis Pale Bock).
Technical topic: Recipe formulation, including the selection of appropriate hops, malt, water, yeast and brewing procedure for different beer styles.

Class 10. Doctored beer seminar. This is an informative and practical method of learning how isolated flavors taste in beer. A clean lager is generally doctored with near-threshold amounts of compounds which either occur naturally in beer or mimic those that do. Examples include artificial butter for diacetyl, sherry for sherry-like oxidation, vodka for alcohol, almond extract for nuttiness, grape tannin for astringency, hop oils for hop flavor and aroma, and lactic and acetic acid for sourness. Recommended amounts are given in the table below. Note that some of these compounds have very strong flavors, so they should be diluted in water or beer before adding to the base beer. For example, a detectable amount of lactic acid is approximately 0.4ml of 88% USP lactic acid to a 12 oz. (355 ml8) sample of beer. Since most of us do not have access to pipettes to measure such a small quantity, 1/8 tsp may be added to 3/8 tsp distilled water, and 1/3 tsp of this solution added to the reference beer. This is equivalent to adding 1/12 tsp times 5 ml/tsp, or approximately 0.4 ml of lactic acid.
Recommended amounts of several substances are listed in the table at the end of this section. For more information on doctored beer seminars, contact Jay Hersh at bjcp_judge@doctorbeer.com or refer to the Focus on Flavors column in Brewing Techniques. The base beer should be a clean light lager with a crown (non-twist-off) cap so that it can be resealed after doctoring. The amounts in the table below are appropriate in a 12 oz. (355 ml) sample, but may be scaled to larger volumes. Note that spices and other solids should be extracted in vodka, since the addition of dry substances to a carbonated beer will cause gushing. For the same reason, the beers and adulterants should also be chilled to the same temperature before combining.

The material in these classes can be comfortably covered in a time frame of three to five months, depending on the needs and experience of the study group. Shorter courses have the advantage of keeping the material fresh, while longer courses allow more intensive reading and reviewing in between classes. Note that the lead time required to schedule a BJCP exam is approximately three months, so keep this in mind when planning the study sessions. For more information, e-mail may be sent to the BJCP exam directors at
exam_director@bjcp.org.

I'm fairly sure I can rope in a couple of our pro taster judges to help guide us. They can pick up all sorts of stuff and point out what we should be tasting.

First thing -more meet ups. Proper discussion, score sheets , analysis, more beer!

1. Padraic ( Has a head start  ;) )
2. Johnrm
3. Tom
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23
6. brenmurph
7. Will_D
8. Andrew

Ill second that Tube. WE need more meets, brew days, club level tasting and testing and keep the passion alive and thriving.

Welcome to the Forum Andrew!

I'm thinking one saturday a month to run through the BJCP recommended format? (A Saturday because it makes it easier for people to travel as we will probably be geographically distant)

Most of the stuff, notes can be done online but the tasting and a bit of a get together to explain parts of the notes would be helpful, I think!

I can contact the BJCP to see if we can hold a tasting exam, the main issue with this is they are booked out until the middle of next year. I might bully them a little seeing as we would be providing a new market to them. So that we might have some qualified judges by the 2014 championships!

I think it would be great if we could also get some homebrewed examples for each of the sessions. Maybe we could run some mini competitions with judging being done as part of our study course?

Lots of idea's rolling around my head right now!

Thanks Bren for the offer of your studio, hopefully the geographic location of the future judges will make it a good option. If not I'll try to get us a location in Dublin City Centre.

If it helps you guys with pulling it together, I can give you all of my materials, and my syllabus for the two courses I've run in the UK. I can also give you access to recorded online sessions run by me, meaning you get to hear the talks given by me. As to the sessions - there's a technical side to be covered and then styles. It's best to use commercial examples (those listed in the guidelines), as these are in fact where the guidelines drew their basis for description.

You'll need to get a date booked (anyone can run an exam, but the admin can't take it as well), and then there are funds to potentially help cover the costs of getting proctors to your exam (you need two proctors, who should be national ranked or higher).

And I can see if I can't lean on the BJCP as the coordinator for the UK.


---------

The exam process is as follows:

1. The online exam. Costs USD 10, and you get an hour to go through the questions. Result is pass/fail. If you pass you become a Provisional Judge, and have a year to take a tasting exam. You can retake the exam once per day for USD a time.

2. The tasting exam. 6 beers in two hours with no reference to the style guidelines or other material. Your comments are then marked, with comparison to the comments from the two exam proctors. The pass mark is 60. The fee is USD 50.

If you score 60-69, you are ranked as Recognized.
If you score 70+ you will be ranked as Certified once you have acquired 5 points (you acquire points from judging, stewarding, organizing etc.)
If you score 80+ you become eligible to take the written exam after acquiring 10 judging points in order to progress to National rank or higher.

QuoteThat's brilliant Ali, thanks for your kind offers.

Quote
If you score 70+ you will be ranked as Certified once you have acquired 5 points (you acquire points from judging, stewarding, organizing etc.)

Can these be retrospectively applied? i.e. our competition was Sanctioned, so can the lads that worked it claim points in the future?

Yes, they can. And they'll be assigned the points now, but they'll live in the ether. Once you take the tasting exam, the BJCP gives you a judge number, and you can access your record online. Things that happened before you get this number get matched up.

Put me down on this for sure. :)

1. Padraic ( Has a head start  ;) )
2. Johnrm
3. Tom
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23
6. brenmurph
7. Will_D
8. Andrew
9. Stitch

Any others interested in this? I have to figure out how best to do it! I'll get in touch with Ali and take him up on his very kind offers!


When should we get started and would one saturday afternoon a month suit people?

1. Padraic ( Has a head start   )
2. Johnrm
3. Tom
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23
6. brenmurph
7. Will_D
8. Andrew
9. Stitch
10. Declan (CARA)

Saturday afternoons sound perfect to me anyway!

QuoteAny others interested in this? I have to figure out how best to do it! I'll get in touch with Ali and take him up on his very kind offers!


When should we get started and would one saturday afternoon a month suit people?

Perfect. Can;t think of better way to spend a Saturday afternoon ;)

sat is fine for me too

1. Padraic [Saturday is fine]
2. Johnrm
3. Tom
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23
6. brenmurph [Saturday is fine]
7. Will_D
8. Andrew
9. Stitch [Saturday is fine]
10. Declan (CARA) [Saturday is fine]

would this be in dublin?

That's yet to be decided, but Dublin is the obvious choice, we could run it from say 12:00 - 16:00 or something like that so people can get public transport to and from Dublin.

I'd hope that we can get all of the info up online as well for those unable to attend some of the sessions!

Yeah, I could do a saturday a month. How many saturdays / months?

I think 10 classes is the standard as far as i know, so at one saturday a month that'd be 10 months, 2 saturdays would cut it down to 5 months!

Not sure what suits you all best, it might take 10 months for us to get an exam date from the BJCP...

If we started next month, and skipped December, we'd finish in February, just in time for the NHC Championship next year!

I think 1 class a month is as frequent as I can commit to!

once a month would be best for me too

however, given enough notice, I could do a weekend/evening and full day or something and knock a lot of them out at once.

I'll look into it during the weekend and try to see what would be involved! See what sort of time lines we'd be looking at etc.

So we'll either look at one saturday a month or see if we can fit two lessons into the one day.

As I've said I've never done this before so there will be quite a bit of making it up as you go along involved!

If you have any friends who might like to get involved please do get them signed up here, the more the merrier!

1. Padraic [Saturday is fine]
2. Johnrm
3. Tom [Saturday is fine]
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23 [Saturday is fine]
6. brenmurph [Saturday is fine]
7. Will_D
8. Andrew
9. Stitch [Saturday is fine]
10. Declan (CARA) [Saturday is fine]

1. Padraic [Saturday is fine]
2. Johnrm
3. Tom [Saturday is fine]
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23 [Saturday is fine]
6. brenmurph [Saturday is fine]
7. Will_D [Saturday is fine]
8. Andrew
9. Stitch [Saturday is fine]
10. Declan (CARA) [Saturday is fine]

1. Padraic [Saturday is fine]
2. Johnrm
3. Tom [Saturday is fine]
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23 [Saturday is fine]
6. brenmurph [Saturday is fine]
7. Will_D [Saturday is fine]
8. Andrew
9. Stitch [Saturday is fine]
10. Declan (CARA) [Saturday is fine]
11.3 rossa. I'm a disaster to pin down so work away.

Quote
11.3 rossa. I'm a disaster to pin down so work away.

You must have been a frog in a "A-level" biology lab in the 60s in a past life!!

Quote
I'm a disaster to pin down so work away.

Are we Hi-Jacking again, oh ok then
I used to have a girlfriend say that to me

Quote

Quote
I'm a disaster to pin down so work away.

Are we Hi-Jacking again, oh ok then
I used to have a girlfriend say that to me

Stop it you two or I'll delete yer accounts!

I'm taking your hijacking as a call out to add you to the list John?

I would absolutely love to but she wont let me :'(

Can a mod move this post to education for me?

1. Padraic [Saturday is fine]
2. Johnrm
3. Tom [Saturday is fine]
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23 [Saturday is fine]
6. brenmurph [Saturday is fine]
7. Will_D [Saturday is fine]
8. Andrew
9. Stitch [Saturday is fine]
10. Declan (CARA) [Saturday is fine]
11.3 rossa. I'm a disaster to pin down so work away.
12 Saruman - Saturday's are always fine.

As we MAY need some support from Ali on this (which he has already offered):

Please see here: http://nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,1955.0.html

One more tenner and we score a Tun (Ah ha!! brewing/cockney convultional twist )

1. Padraic [Saturday is fine]
2. Johnrm
3. Tom [Saturday is fine]
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23 [Saturday is fine]
6. brenmurph [Saturday is fine]
7. Will_D [Saturday is fine]
8. Andrew
9. Stitch [Saturday is fine]
10. Declan (CARA) [Saturday is fine]
11.3 rossa. I'm a disaster to pin down so work away.
12. Saruman - Saturday's are always fine.
13. Partridge9 - Saturdays ok i think

1. Padraic [Saturday is fine]
2. Johnrm - I'll row in with whatever suits the masses as best I can.
3. Tom [Saturday is fine]
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23 [Saturday is fine]
6. brenmurph [Saturday is fine]
7. Will_D [Saturday is fine]
8. Andrew
9. Stitch [Saturday is fine]
10. Declan (CARA) [Saturday is fine]
11.3 rossa. I'm a disaster to pin down so work away.
12. Saruman - Saturday's are always fine.
13. Partridge9 - Saturdays ok i think

1. Padraic [Saturday is fine]
2. Johnrm - I'll row in with whatever suits the masses as best I can.
3. Tom [Saturday is fine]
4. Dodge (work away)
5. Matthewdick23 [Saturday is fine]
6. brenmurph [Saturday is fine]
7. Will_D [Saturday is fine]
8. Andrew
9. Stitch [Saturday is fine]
10. Declan (CARA) [Saturday is fine]
11.3 rossa. I'm a disaster to pin down so work away.
12. Saruman - Saturday's are always fine.
13. Partridge9 - Saturdays ok i think

Sorry lads, my irregular shift pattern has me working some Saturdays each month so I will bow out and let you all work away :(

Okay it's time for me to start putting this course together and figure out how best to run this I had wanted to get the first day this month but I think it'll be a May kickoff.

Who wants to help out with the prep?

 Let me know if there's stuff I can do from afar.

1. Padraic [Saturday is fine]
2. Johnrm - I'll row in with whatever suits the masses as best I can.
3. Tom [Saturday is fine]
4. Dodge (work away)
5. Matthewdick23 [Saturday is fine]
6. brenmurph [Saturday is fine]
7. Will_D [Saturday is fine]
8. Andrew
9. Stitch [Saturday is fine]
10. Declan (CARA) [Saturday is fine]
11.3 rossa. I'm a disaster to pin down so work away.
12. Saruman - Saturday's are always fine.
13. Partridge9 - Saturdays ok i think
14. Irish Goat - Saturday afternoon is ok.

@Padraic, Can we ballpark Location, dates and times on this?
Just in case I'm in for something I have no hope of attending.

Yea It's probably time we got ourselves organised!

I'm thinking the location has to be dublin city centre for convenience for everyone travelling a long way not to have to get to dublin only to have to move on. We were pretty much all agreed on Saturday's being best, at around mid day. So it's a matter of picking which week works best for people. First weekends are bad because a lot of them are bank holiday's, so maybe the second or third weekends of the month.

I have a capital brewers thing on the 12th I'll run it by my boss if this is a good time for me to be busy both mornings of a weekend or not!

So How would second saturday's or third saturday's suit people?

I'm hoping to have good notes put together for everyone so that if you miss a session that you can do it at home anyways!

We also need to nail down a cost as well for all of the beer samples and stuff like that! I might be able to get the venue in exchange for us buying the beers from the bar, so I'll look into this.

All suggestions welcome! I realise I have brought more questions than answers!

How long would each session last? I can obviously ask at work.

That would be great Thomas, not sure on the timeline yet, probably 3-4 hours!

For public transport I would nominate the BrewDock ( where we did the Siebel Tasting )

If I am driving then the B&C is probably good (from experience)

What is WJK's like on a Saturday after?

Or should we support all 3?

Also I would like to wait till after the Cask Project is tucked up for its ageing )

Quote from: Will_D on April 23, 2013, 11:51:03 PM
For public transport I would nominate the BrewDock ( where we did the Siebel Tasting )

If I am driving then the B&C is probably good (from experience)

What is WJK's like on a Saturday after?

Or should we support all 3?

Also I would like to wait till after the Cask Project is tucked up for its ageing )

That's a good point, a rotating venue might just be an option!

I think I might have to agree on the point of the casks being filled first!

June is a better start month for me anyway with my imminent exams so maybe that is the best option!

Ill check if this works for squeezing in enough sessions between now and the competition next year!

Quote from: Padraic on April 24, 2013, 04:14:47 AM
Ill check if this works for squeezing in enough sessions between now and the competition next year!

Could we do a double session day or would that be overload?

How structured is it? Maybe 1.5 Sessions per day so 7 days would cover it.

Quote from: irish_goat on April 24, 2013, 10:51:04 AM

Quote from: Padraic on April 24, 2013, 04:14:47 AM
Ill check if this works for squeezing in enough sessions between now and the competition next year!

Could we do a double session day or would that be overload?

Maybe not, we could always do two lager days in the one day, and the doctored beer seminar day could be thrown in with one of the other days, or spread over the course with a few samples each day...

Quote from: johnrm on April 24, 2013, 11:46:01 AM
How structured is it? Maybe 1.5 Sessions per day so 7 days would cover it.

The suggested format is fairly structured and they recommend 3-4 hours per class, that could probably be shortened by letting everyone do their exams as homework instead of there on the day.

The suggested framework is outlined in post 14: http://nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,1519.msg18757.html#msg18757 (http://nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,1519.msg18757.html#msg18757)

Those who would have to travel, would a double day, i.e. around 6 hours instead of 3 suit ye to get to dublin city centre?

The mentioned timelines wouldn't include anything extra added by the cicerone add-ons if we go down that route!

I'd be happy enough doing the exams as homework. Between tasting nights, brew days and now this there's a lot of time being taken up and I'm sure I've probably got more free time than most of you'se.

So long as I catch the 6pm bus back, I'm good. I'm naturally (chronically) disinclined to homework, though, but I'll put in a superhuman effort, seeing as it isn't maths, English, any of the sciences, geography or whatever the hell I took for GCSE.

Am I too late to put my name down?

I would love to take part in this  :)

Kellie

Quote from: Kellie on April 25, 2013, 09:07:40 PM
Am I too late to put my name down?

I would love to take part in this  :)

Kellie

Not at all Kellie, we needed someone to look after bren anyway  ;)

1. Padraic [Saturday is fine]
2. Johnrm - I'll row in with whatever suits the masses as best I can.
3. Tom [Saturday is fine]
4. Dodge (work away)
5. Matthewdick23 [Saturday is fine]
6. brenmurph [Saturday is fine]
7. Will_D [Saturday is fine]
8. Andrew
9. Stitch [Saturday is fine]
10. Declan (CARA) [Saturday is fine]
11.3 rossa. I'm a disaster to pin down so work away.
12. Saruman - Saturday's are always fine.
13. Partridge9 - Saturdays ok i think
14. Irish Goat - Saturday afternoon is ok.
15. Kellie

Quote from: Padraic on April 24, 2013, 01:07:04 PM
Those who would have to travel, would a double day, i.e. around 6 hours instead of 3 suit ye to get to dublin city centre?

The mentioned timelines wouldn't include anything extra added by the cicerone add-ons if we go down that route!

yeah, if I'm coming down from belfast, I'd prefer to do it as few times as possible- so longer days with more in them would be my preference

Quote from: matthewdick23 on April 26, 2013, 10:05:06 AM

Quote from: Padraic on April 24, 2013, 01:07:04 PM
Those who would have to travel, would a double day, i.e. around 6 hours instead of 3 suit ye to get to dublin city centre?

The mentioned timelines wouldn't include anything extra added by the cicerone add-ons if we go down that route!

yeah, if I'm coming down from belfast, I'd prefer to do it as few times as possible- so longer days with more in them would be my preference

I agree,  Im pretty busy and travel to dublin for just a few hour takes a couple hours commuting so a 9-5 saturday and get more study in suits me too..

Delighted I'm on the list........ :)

Not sure about the looking after Brendan part......... ;)

And Saturdays are good for me too!

I must get the finger out and start putting this together!
So we've agreed on 5-6 full day sessions. I'm aiming for the cost to be as low as possible, hoping for around €25-30 per session to include beer (I haven't start investigating how much each beer will cost, some will be harder to source than others) and all the notes and rental of wherever I get for us to use.

So the first day will be a Saturday in mid/late June if that suits people?

I will get a date for ye all asap.

My understanding of the BJCP exam rules is 12 people can sit the exams so I will make those spots available to the first 12 on the list above. Some of them might drop out along the way but you will all still be qualified as beer judges and can sit the exam during the next sitting if needs be!

So if anyone has decided they no longer wish to do the course please feel free to remove yourself from the list. Also if you'd like to join the course please don't be shy!

Ill definitely put it to a vote when we have membership sorted!

It will be great to have a mix of bjcp trained judges and professionals judging next year! The club is always going from strength to strength!

I will also welcome home brews for our judges to try and provide feedback to whoever donates some bottles! Details will follow when I have my ducks in a row!!

Quote from: Padraic on May 18, 2013, 12:10:02 AM
I will also welcome home brews for our judges to try and provide feedback to whoever donates some bottles! Details will follow when I have my ducks in a row!!

Too many visits to Tog maybe:

I'd like to stick my name down for this. It was putting me off that Saturday was the chosen day - I work alternate Saturdays and Sundays - but I'm owed loads of holiday, so I'll just take the day off if necessary.

So
1. Padraic [Saturday is fine]
2. Johnrm - I'll row in with whatever suits the masses as best I can.
3. Tom [Saturday is fine]
4. Dodge (work away)
5. Matthewdick23 [Saturday is fine]
6. brenmurph [Saturday is fine]
7. Will_D [Saturday is fine]
8. Andrew
9. Stitch [Saturday is fine]
10. Declan (CARA) [Saturday is fine]
11.3 rossa. I'm a disaster to pin down so work away.
12. Saruman - Saturday's are always fine.
13. Partridge9 - Saturdays ok i think
14. Irish Goat - Saturday afternoon is ok.
15. Kellie
16.Dunkel

I'm getting excited now about this course!

I think for the first day of the course we'll try to cover Light, Amber and Dark Lagers from a tasting point of view and theory sections on Water and Malt. I'll have to see what fits in my diary but we'll be looking at the end of next month I'd say for the first day.

Okay, so the first day will be 29th of June!

That gives you all a few weeks to get time off from work or families! I hope to have it running once a month for the next 5-6 months!

Ill nail down the cost over the next couple of weeks and let you all know! (Note that there will be a membership discount for the classes)

For now can you copy the list down and confirm your attendance?

1. Padraic [29th June is fine]
2. Johnrm
3. Tom
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23
6. brenmurph
7. Will_D
8. Andrew
9. Stitch
10. Declan (CARA)
11. Rossa
12. Saruman
13. Partridge9
14. Irish Goat
15. Kellie
16. Dunkel

Quote from: Padraic on June 03, 2013, 05:31:17 PM
1. Padraic [29th June is fine]
2. Johnrm
3. Tom
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23  In. Im in Dublin that wkend- so perfect!!
6. brenmurph
7. Will_D
8. Andrew
9. Stitch
10. Declan (CARA)
11. Rossa
12. Saruman
13. Partridge9
14. Irish Goat
15. Kellie
16. Dunkel

What time do you anticipate finishing on the 29th? Think I've a gig that night, and I'm sure it won't be further south than Derry!

Quote from: matthewdick23 on June 03, 2013, 05:41:28 PM

Quote from: Padraic on June 03, 2013, 05:31:17 PM
1. Padraic [29th June is fine]
2. Johnrm
3. Tom
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23  In. Im in Dublin that wkend- so perfect!!
6. brenmurph
7. Will_D
8. Andrew
9. Stitch
10. Declan (CARA)
11. Rossa
12. Saruman
13. Partridge9
14. Irish Goat
15. Kellie
16. Dunkel - just confirmed with the Boss (no, not that one, my employer), and off that day, so I'm in :)

Looking at the syllabus, there's a lot to cover!

Quote from: Tom on June 03, 2013, 06:05:09 PM
What time do you anticipate finishing on the 29th? Think I've a gig that night, and I'm sure it won't be further south than Derry!

Hoping to run each day from 10:00 To 17:00 or 18:00 will that be early enough for you?

Quote from: Dunkel on June 03, 2013, 06:11:22 PM

Quote from: matthewdick23 on June 03, 2013, 05:41:28 PM

Quote from: Padraic on June 03, 2013, 05:31:17 PM
1. Padraic [29th June is fine]
2. Johnrm
3. Tom
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23  In. Im in Dublin that wkend- so perfect!!
6. brenmurph
7. Will_D
8. Andrew
9. Stitch
10. Declan (CARA)
11. Rossa
12. Saruman
13. Partridge9
14. Irish Goat
15. Kellie
16. Dunkel - just confirmed with the Boss (no, not that one, my employer), and off that day, so I'm in :)

Looking at the syllabus, there's a lot to cover!

There is indeed and we'll get through it! I hope!

1. Padraic [29th June is fine]
2. Johnrm
3. Tom
4. Dodge
5. Matthewdick23  In. Im in Dublin that wkend- so perfect!!
6. brenmurph
7. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
8. Andrew
9. Stitch
10. Declan (CARA)
11. Rossa
12. Saruman
13. Partridge9
14. Irish Goat
15. Kellie
16. Dunkel - just confirmed with the Boss (no, not that one, my employer), and off that day, so I'm in :)

For those intending to take this course, I've just found this link to a simplified version of it: it's worthwhile taking a look at before the first session.

http://www.bjcp.org/course/introduction.php

Blast in the states then unfortunately

- and I really want to do this course !

@Partridge9 - I'd say you'll be fine missing one or two of the days, ill give you the notes and let you know which beers to pick up and where stocks them!

@dunkel - good find, I didn't come across that page! They seem to be referring to the old syllabus but the lessons all are still relevant for the new exams!

Thanks Padraic - really appreciate that- I really want to get the BJCP exam.

so is there anything we need to do before showing up at the class? has a place been confirmed?

Quote from: matthewdick23 on June 12, 2013, 12:35:12 PM
so is there anything we need to do before showing up at the class? has a place been confirmed?

Supplies - Pen and paper if you want to take notes, other than that I hope to have everything covered.

Venue - Not yet, I will announce it a week before, but it will be in Dublin City Centre without a doubt!

I want to announce the exact cost as well but can't just yet as I haven't nailed down a venue! (I'm hoping for a free/very low cost venue!)

The venue has been confirmed! We will be tasting at W J Kavanagh. Declan (Cara) has kindly offered to open the place up for us to do our tasting.

So the plan is to run the tasting from 10-4 or 5 (they open for customers from 3)

A rough timetable will be,
1 hour of Malt/Water chatter
~15 tasters ~100ml which should last about 20 mins each. (5 hours)

We could decrease the volume to ~80ml to reduce costs for the more expensive beers. In actual judging you would probably only pour ~50ml. So if the beers are extra expensive I think we should reduce to this level!

You will need to arrive fed and we'll probably have a break to run out to get a sandwich at lunchtime!

Kevin (Dunkel) is going to help me lead this project and he informs me that he has started practicing tasting already!

I'll send out a pm later today, but please do update the list to confirm your attendance!

Padraic
I will have to bow out of this one.
Sorry if this is a problem

great! can't wait!!

matthew

Quote from: Stitch on June 13, 2013, 02:08:52 PM
Padraic
I will have to bow out of this one.
Sorry if this is a problem

Sorry to hear you can't do the course!

aye- im in dub that wkend neways for a beer wkend wit some friends. i'll just disappear from them for a while. actually might get them to come in at 3 and play catch up

anyone going to this from ballsbridge direction

Quote from: Il Tubo on June 13, 2013, 05:45:18 PM
Pretty sure several Dublin Bus routes will take you from Ballsbridge to Lower Dorset St (a major thoroughfare to the north side), outside WJK's.

Routes 1, 4 etc. I'm sure the lads from over that way will pipe up (shiny?)

You can also get trains from ballsbridge to drumcondra, but they are infrequent!

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm
03. Tom
04. Dodge
05. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
06. brenmurph
07. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
08. Andrew
09. Declan (CARA)
10. Rossa
11. Saruman
12. Partridge9
13. Irish Goat
14. Kellie
15. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]

There used to be trains that ran across the city, but apparently they are no more!

I will rattle the chairmans cage tomorow (he is rather busy at the mo.) and we may just split the travelling.

Looking at the names, apart from me and P9 any one else Northside?

Its a two bus ride for me so would probably drive! or be very nice to SWMBOB!!

I'm in :) will ya adjust the list......not sure how to...

Bren, I'm assuming Kellie is in too?

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm
03. Tom
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew
08. Declan (CARA)
09. Rossa
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  [29th June is fine]
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm - I'm in for 29th
03. Tom
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew
08. Declan (CARA)
09. Rossa
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  [29th June is fine]
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]

Hi Padraic,
Sorry I won't be at this one the 29th as I will be on my way to London, have a date with Mr Buble......:) will catch up on the next one :)

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm - I'm in for 29th
03. Tom
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew
08. Declan (CARA)
09. Rossa
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  [29th June is fine]
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]
15. Shiny [29th June is fine]

I will be getting a 4 over to Dorset St. from Ballsbridge. Its only every 30 mins though so if I miss it I will probably just get a dublin Bike from Merrion square over to Parnell square.

Just doing a small bit of house keeping!

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm - I'm in for 29th
03. Tom
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew
08. Declan (CARA) [29th June is fine]
09. Rossa (Not able to attend first class)
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9 (Not able to attend first class)
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  (Not able to attend first class)
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]
15. Shiny [29th June is fine]

I'm still interested, just letting you know.

I'm interested in this but maybe I should be drinking / studying more before I get involved? It's been a while since I could afford nice beers :)

If you can't afford to buy good beer,  brew it yourself    :P

Bingo! That's why I'm here :)

Quote from: onesoma on June 14, 2013, 11:08:34 PM
I'm interested in this but maybe I should be drinking / studying more before I get involved? It's been a while since I could afford nice beers :)

Everyone is welcome on the course, it will cost around €150 for the classes and another $60 to the BJCP for the exams.

€25 a month to taste 10-15 different beer styles and get to learn a bit about each one seems like a bargain to me.... But i appreciate that budgets are tight!

So anyone else who wants to get involved is very welcome! I think we will only be able to have 12 people sitting the judging exam, but we'll see if we can get that extended!

I'd like to add my name to the list. ..... if there are still spaces??? And like others I can't make the first one...... and may struggle with other sats... but promise to do my homework...... every last drop of it :P. Olso I might have anotherIinterested..... but have to get them on the forum first....

Welcome aboard! Get your friend signed up as well! The more the merrier!

For €150 for 6 tasting sessions you can't go wrong! But if you miss more than one it will start getting a bit expensive!

Note the €150 is a members price, non members will be €180!

Two questions:

1: where is it? I'm planning my journey now. Might have to leave early though, as I'm gigging in Bundoran that evening.

2: Is it OK to pay in instalments as we go along? €150 is reasonably, I'm not saying it's not, but in one go? You'll have to fight the Dentist for it.

Quote from: Tom on June 15, 2013, 02:30:09 PM
1: where is it? I'm planning my journey now. Might have to leave early though, as I'm gigging in Bundoran that evening.

It's in W J Kavanagh on Dorset Street, about 10-15 mins from O Connell St. (Also about 10-15 mins from Connolly Station/Busaras)

The first hour or so will be going through some notes so not the end of the world if you miss it, as in you can read through them yourself and we can discuss any questions on the forum.

I'd not be against a 11:00 a.m. start if people are having trouble arriving before that!

Quote from: Tom on June 15, 2013, 02:30:09 PM
2: Is it OK to pay in instalments as we go along? €150 is reasonably, I'm not saying it's not, but in one go? You'll have to fight the Dentist for it.

I agree that it is a bit short notice for the 150€ in one go but I would like people's commitment to the course and I would prefer this up front as I will need to start buying the beer for the next few months asap. For installments I can agree to maybe €75 for the first month and €75 before the second tasting for anyone who is stuck for cash at the moment. (I don't have time to be spending chasing people for money every month. And I am sorry if this alienates anyone)

And the joy of beer tasting knowledge is much more important than keeping your teeth in good shape :P

Quote from: Padraic on June 15, 2013, 11:36:53 PM

I agree that it is a bit short notice for the 150€ in one go but I would like people's commitment to the course and I would prefer this up front as I will need to start buying the beer for the next few months asap. For installments I can agree to maybe €75 for the first month and €75 before the second tasting for anyone who is stuck for cash at the moment. (I don't have time to be spending chasing people for money every month. And I am sorry if this alienates anyone)

And the joy of beer tasting knowledge is much more important than keeping your teeth in good shape :P

I get paid on the 27th so before I get a chance to spend it, can I transfer it to your bank account that day? Seems safter than you receiving 2 grand in cash on the day!  :o

I'd love to do it, can't commit to it this year though. Maybe in a year or two if it's on again. I'll concentrate on brewing and drinking more in the mean time :) And start going to meet ups.

Quote from: shiny on June 16, 2013, 12:49:37 PM

Quote from: Padraic on June 15, 2013, 11:36:53 PM

I agree that it is a bit short notice for the 150€ in one go but I would like people's commitment to the course and I would prefer this up front as I will need to start buying the beer for the next few months asap. For installments I can agree to maybe €75 for the first month and €75 before the second tasting for anyone who is stuck for cash at the moment. (I don't have time to be spending chasing people for money every month. And I am sorry if this alienates anyone)

And the joy of beer tasting knowledge is much more important than keeping your teeth in good shape :P

I get paid on the 27th so before I get a chance to spend it, can I transfer it to your bank account that day? Seems safter than you receiving 2 grand in cash on the day!  :o

Good point, I'll get on to Dempsey about laundering paying the funds through the club accounts...

Is there a deadline/cutoff date to sign up to this?

Not really, but anyone who hasn't paid at least the first €75 by the start of (morning of at the very latest) the first day won't be doing the course.

I'll check what sort of numbers we're limited to later today.

With the BJCP exam we are technically limited to 12 but I think that can be increased to 20. I need to confirm that. So the deal is the first 12 will definitely get to take the exam in February, and I hope that we can increase it up to 20!

I'd say 20 is the max for the course! So no deadline but limited to 20!

Keep us posted on payment.

I'm liking this more and more. WJCavanagh's on the road north, and thanks to streetview I'll have visited many times by Saturday. Google also thinks I can get to Bundoran in 3 hours!

So, you Dubs, what's the traffic like on Saturdays?

Edit: What's the parking like?
Edit2: How steaming am I going to be when I leave at 5pm?

PS, not my teeth, so agree wholeheartedly about the importance. She's a veggie anyway, so what good are teeth, really?

Quote from: Tom on June 16, 2013, 04:17:42 PM
I'm liking this more and more. WJCavanagh's on the road north, and thanks to streetview I'll have visited many times by Saturday. Google also thinks I can get to Bundoran in 3 hours!

So, you Dubs, what's the traffic like on Saturdays?

Edit: What's the parking like?
Edit2: How steaming am I going to be when I leave at 5pm?

PS, not my teeth, so agree wholeheartedly about the importance. She's a veggie anyway, so what good are teeth, really?

Traffic Shouldn't be too bad.

Parking around there shouldn't be too bad, I think you should be able to park on one of the surrounding streets.

You'll be tasting around 100ml of 10-15 beers, so 1.5 litres over 5-6 hours, not sure how that fixes you for being able to drive? Probably best to have a feed and wait an hour but ye all know better than me (I don't drive). Also note that there will be one or two that you might not drink all 100ml...(American Lite Lager) I also hope to have some crackers and bread as palate cleansing/soakage.

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm - I'm in for 29th
03. Tom
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew
08. Declan (CARA) [29th June is fine]
09. Rossa (Not able to attend first class)
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9 (Not able to attend first class)
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  (Not able to attend first class)
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]
15. Shiny [29th June is fine]
16. Kev (Wont make the first class)

This sounds great, wont make the 29th unfortunately but will be there after that!

Moneys payable into the club account?

Is it too late for me to join this?

Quote from: Padraic on June 16, 2013, 01:38:30 PM

With the BJCP exam we are technically limited to 12 but I think that can be increased to 20. I need to confirm that. So the deal is the first 12 will definitely get to take the exam in February, and I hope that we can increase it up to 20!

I'd say 20 is the max for the course! So no deadline but limited to 20!

I thought we first all had to do the online exam and only then when we know who has passed the OEx then we know who is eleigible for the tasting exam?

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm - I'm in for 29th
03. Tom
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew [29th June is fine]
08. Declan (CARA) [29th June is fine]
09. Rossa (Not able to attend first class)
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9 (Not able to attend first class)
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  (Not able to attend first class)
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]
15. Shiny [29th June is fine]
16. Kev (Wont make the first class)

Quote from: kev on June 17, 2013, 09:49:15 AM


Moneys payable into the club account?

Seconded, what's the payment method?

Quote from: Cathal O D on June 17, 2013, 10:24:12 AM
Is it too late for me to join this?

Not to late, but you are not guaranteed a place in the tasting exam. I'll add you to the list, feel free to remove yourself if this is a deal breaker!

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm - I'm in for 29th
03. Tom
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew [29th June is fine]
08. Declan (CARA) [29th June is fine]
09. Rossa (Not able to attend first class)
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9 (Not able to attend first class)
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  (Not able to attend first class)
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]
15. Shiny [29th June is fine]
16. Kev (Wont make the first class)
17. Cathal O D

Quote from: Will_D on June 17, 2013, 10:41:36 AM
I thought we first all had to do the online exam and only then when we know who has passed the OEx then we know who is eleigible for the tasting exam?

This is true, if you don't pass the online exam then you will be unable to sit the tasting exam. But I am hoping you will all have no bother with the online exam after the course and fly through the tasting as well!

Is there room for one more? Emma wants to do it too.

If not already posted: http://www.bjcp.org/docs/BJCPExamForDummies.pdf

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm - I'm in for 29th
03. Tom
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew [29th June is fine]
08. Declan (CARA) [29th June is fine]
09. Rossa (Not able to attend first class)
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9 (Not able to attend first class)
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  (Not able to attend first class)
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]
15. Shiny [29th June is fine]
16. Kev (Wont make the first class)
17. Cathal O D
18. Emma (O D)

Cheers Paraic

(Damn course is the day after Kinsale Launch, do you hear me Sam?!)

Padraic was in the shop where I work yesterday, buying Coors Light and Budweiser amongst other beer. He said it was for the course ..... ;)

Did you get an off flavour kit yet?

Quote from: Saruman on June 17, 2013, 07:19:46 PM
Did you get an off flavour kit yet?

No, I'll be hitting up the BJCP for funding. The off flavours will be in October or November I'd say!

Plenty of time then.  I did some from a sibel kit a few years ago.  Very interesting.

There was one of these last year here Reuben.
Is this part of the course too?

Quote from: johnrm on June 17, 2013, 08:06:13 PM
There was one of these last year here Reuben.
Is this part of the course too?

Yes Off flavours are important!

Quote from: Saruman on June 17, 2013, 06:04:50 PM
If not already posted: http://www.bjcp.org/docs/BJCPExamForDummies.pdf

Woha! Slow down Reuben! This is the next stage of qualification:

1. You sit the online test
2. If passed you do the tasting exam
3. You judge 10 comps

4. Only then are you eligible for the big one thats all about your pdf

When passed you are a qulified BJCP judge

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm - I'm in for 29th
03. Tom
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew [29th June is fine]
08. Declan (CARA) [29th June is fine]
09. Rossa (Not able to attend first class)
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9 (Not able to attend first class)
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  (Not able to attend first class)
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]
15. Shiny [29th June is fine]
16. Kev (Wont make the first class)
17. Cathal O D
18. Emma (O D)
19. Simon

Quote from: Il Tubo on June 18, 2013, 08:47:53 PM
Which Simon?

http://nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=107 (http://nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=107)

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm - I'm in for 29th
03. Tom [29th good, but may have to leave at 4 - but how important is Water, reeeeally?]
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew [29th June is fine]
08. Declan (CARA) [29th June is fine]
09. Rossa (Not able to attend first class)
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9 (Not able to attend first class)
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  (Not able to attend first class)
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]
15. Shiny [29th June is fine]
16. Kev (Wont make the first class)
17. Cathal O D
18. Emma (O D)
19. Simon

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm - I'm in for 29th
03. Tom [29th good, but may have to leave at 4 - but how important is Water, reeeeally?]
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew [29th June is fine]
08. Declan (CARA) [29th June is fine]
09. Rossa (Not able to attend first class)
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9 (Not able to attend first class)
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  (Not able to attend first class)
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]
15. Shiny [29th June is fine]
16. Kev (Wont make the first class)
17. Cathal O D
18. Emma (O D)
19. Simon
20. DoctorCavendish [29th June is fine]

List is looking a bit full but going to throw my name in.  I'm good for all dates to the end of sept so far.  If there is still space will have payment in before the end of the week (don't mind giving exam sitting priority to those before me)

01. Padraic [29th June is fine]
02. Johnrm - I'm in for 29th
03. Tom [29th good, but may have to leave at 4 - but how important is Water, reeeeally?]
04. Matthewdick23 [29th June is fine]
05. brenmurph  [29th June is fine]
06. Will_D  [29th June is fine]
07. Andrew [29th June is fine]
08. Declan (CARA) [29th June is fine]
09. Rossa (Not able to attend first class)
10. Saruman
11. Partridge9 (Not able to attend first class)
12. Irish Goat
13. Kellie  (Not able to attend first class)
14. Dunkel  [29th June is fine]
15. Shiny [29th June is fine]
16. Kev (Wont make the first class)
17. Cathal O D
18. Emma (O D)
19. Simon
20. DoctorCavendish [29th June is fine]
21. Beerfly [ok]

I think the limit is really 20 but I'd expect one or two to drop out over the next few days so you should be safe enough!

The bjcp exams normally have a limit of 12 but can be extended to 20 if you can sweet talk the right people! So I'll try my best!

Quote from: Il Tubo on June 26, 2013, 10:34:08 PM
I've been toying with doing this for the last week or two, flawed palate and all.  :o

But Padraic asked me to be Exam Administrator for this as he's sitting it himself. Padraic is the man who is due all the credit, but I have to say I'm truly honoured to be involved with all of you in the process of bringing such good beer knowledge and training to Ireland.

Again thanks Shane for taking on this task! You are very welcome to join the course, I had only asked you to take on the exam admin role because I thought you didn't want to do the course!

While I'm thanking people... Thanks to Kevin and Will for their help in ensuring Saturday should will be a success!

Woohoo!   ;D  Just sat and passed the online exam. I found out that you can go to https://secure.coursewebs.com/bjcp/pageCatalog.aspx and "buy" a free practice exam. It's only 20 questions, with a six minute time limit, but it shows the standard of questions you can expect (and the time you have to answer them). You have to add it to your cart and pretend to buy it, but it's free of charge. Passing this gave me the confidence to chance $10 on the real thing.
Now time for a celebration beer  :D

nice! just did the practice myself and passed...wish theyd give u a breakdown of answers- what was right n wrong

Whoa, wait a minute I was holding you traninee BJCP judges in such high regard, The Knights Templar, the Rosicrucians if you will, keepers of the malt
Are you telling me a few multiguess questions and you get a certificate ???
post some of the questions, see if we know the answers :)

It says everyone passes the practise exam. But you can go back in and see which ones you got right and wrong on the example test.

Yep, you can. There's a "review" button somewhere which goes back over the practice questions, showing the correct answers. I scored 15/20, which I thought showed I would be good enough to take the real thing.
@Ciderhead  It's difficult to remember the exact questions (there's 200 in 60 mins), but they were keen on comparing styles (e.g. Standard American Lager v Bohemian Lager or Scottish 60/- v Mild), off-flavours (particularly Diacetyl), and IBU rates of certain styles. But you can find out for yourself at the link above.
And we do get automatic entry into the Masons  ;)

Quote from: Ciderhead on August 28, 2013, 08:53:59 PM
Whoa, wait a minute I was holding you traninee BJCP judges in such high regard, The Knights Templar, the Rosicrucians if you will, keepers of the malt
Are you telling me a few multiguess questions and you get a certificate ???
post some of the questions, see if we know the answers :)

Don't belittle, the black helicopters will get you!!

Congrats dunkel! Has anyone else passed?

I passed also. Have you guys studied for this?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

Quote from: Ciderhead on August 28, 2013, 08:53:59 PM
Whoa, wait a minute I was holding you traninee BJCP judges in such high regard, The Knights Templar, the Rosicrucians if you will, keepers of the malt
Are you telling me a few multiguess questions and you get a certificate ???
post some of the questions, see if we know the answers :)

I'm presuming therll be a moderator supervising the actual online exam, so no cheating...If we really want good judges / trainee judges we need to moderate the computer based online exam in the clubs interesst so we know they know their stuff.

Would be easy for me and a few mates from the club to pass if we put our heads together wouldnt it? So Interested in how the online exams are going to take place.
I think it was mentioned at the bJCP course that it isnt easy.

Quote from: brenmurph on August 29, 2013, 07:49:08 AM


Would be easy for me and a few mates from the club to pass if we put our heads together wouldnt it? So Interested in how the online exams are going to take place.
I think it was mentioned at the bJCP course that it isnt easy.

If the online sample is any indication then it won't be too hard to be honest. I've passed that with no study and in about 2 minutes.

Everyone passes that one, but it doesn't seem that hard. I got 18 out of 20 - one of the two I should have got (beta vs alpha amlayse) and the other I misred.

I'd imagine it's slightly different with 200 questions in 60 minutes though.

Quote from: mr happy on August 29, 2013, 09:23:04 AM
Everyone passes that one, but it doesn't seem that hard. I got 18 out of 20 - one of the two I should have got (beta vs alpha amlayse) and the other I misred.

I'd imagine it's slightly different with 200 questions in 60 minutes though.

So it's a sample that is not representative of the actual real test? I'd find that bizarre to say the least.

Quote from: Padraic on August 29, 2013, 02:14:55 AM

Quote from: Ciderhead on August 28, 2013, 08:53:59 PM
Whoa, wait a minute I was holding you traninee BJCP judges in such high regard, The Knights Templar, the Rosicrucians if you will, keepers of the malt
Are you telling me a few multiguess questions and you get a certificate ???
post some of the questions, see if we know the answers :)

Don't belittle, the black helicopters will get you!!

Congrats dunkel! Has anyone else passed?

hey big brother, .iss off and enjoy your holidays ya sad .astard :P

Learning should not be about ones ability to pass a test, it should be about having a Learning Outcome.

Re our club producing our own Judges, we really need to ensure that our standards are high so 3 things:

1    If the exam can be passed without hardly studyin we need a different exam coz its a joke to pretend that we know how to judge
2. If we are taking an online exam, we need a moderator or two to ensure that no one cheats.
3. We need to study, learn, practise and then sit a TOUGH exam to prove we know what we are doing, otherwise we will soon be caught out when we go outside of our club to judge other's beers and will be criticised.

Quote from: brenmurph on August 29, 2013, 10:20:23 AM
Learning should not be about ones ability to pass a test, it should be about having a Learning Outcome.

Re our club producing our own Judges, we really need to ensure that our standards are high so 3 things:

1    If the exam can be passed without hardly studyin we need a different exam coz its a joke to pretend that we know how to judge
2. If we are taking an online exam, we need a moderator or two to ensure that no one cheats.
3. We need to study, learn, practise and then sit a TOUGH exam to prove we know what we are doing, otherwise we will soon be caught out when we go outside of our club to judge other's beers and will be criticised.

I think you are underestimating your public here. I can guarantee you that your average guy down the boozer would not know that DMS had a vegetal character or the types of malts that are suitable in a Scottish Heavy, both of which were questions on my sample test. Did you look at the test? It's easy for us, but I think we're passing because we know our shit.

Im not sure what is meant by "misunderstanding the public".

All im sayin is that if the sample test is a true reflection of the real test and everyone thats done it is pasin then why are we botherin doin a BJCP course.

Im speakin as an experiences teacher and highly qualified trainer who has undertaken extensive academic, vocational and CPD study continuously over past 17 years. I was surprised by some earlier comments that the sample exam is easy and everyone is passin...
Any course, challenge or goal we undertake should reflect a desire to be the best at what we are learning and the exam ( like any goal) should reflect hard work and a deserved reward when we acheive / pass our goal.

I Know a lot about beer, but theres an endless amount to learn yet. I'm an expert in Nutrition, however when I attend a seminar like tuesday in Bewleys leopardstown, I am put back in my place quickly by the international presenters, at how much I dont know.

In summary if we are doing the BJCP or further we can do it for the personal satisfaction of boasting about passin an easy online exam or we can challenge ourselves and become the best possible and get rewarded by a deserved LEARNING OUTCOME, not a piece of paper.

Im very surprised that BJCP may appear to have a sample exam that can be passed without any formal training, just an interest in homebrewing. In this case the course / exam should not lead to qualified trainer status, however maybe a confidence building stepping stone to the next level which I think is a practical formal exam?

Quote from: brenmurph on August 29, 2013, 11:07:32 AM
Im not sure what is meant by "misunderstanding the public".

All im sayin is that if the sample test is a true reflection of the real test and everyone thats done it is pasin then why are we botherin doin a BJCP course.

Im speakin as an experiences teacher and highly qualified trainer who has undertaken extensive academic, vocational and CPD study continuously over past 17 years. I was surprised by some earlier comments that the sample exam is easy and everyone is passin...
Any course, challenge or goal we undertake should reflect a desire to be the best at what we are learning and the exam ( like any goal) should reflect hard work and a deserved reward when we acheive / pass our goal.

I Know a lot about beer, but theres an endless amount to learn yet. I'm an expert in Nutrition, however when I attend a seminar like tuesday in Bewleys leopardstown, I am put back in my place quickly by the international presenters, at how much I dont know.

In summary if we are doing the BJCP or further we can do it for the personal satisfaction of boasting about passin an easy online exam or we can challenge ourselves and become the best possible and get rewarded by a deserved LEARNING OUTCOME, not a piece of paper.

Im very surprised that BJCP may appear to have a sample exam that can be passed without any formal training, just an interest in homebrewing. In this case the course / exam should not lead to qualified trainer status, however maybe a confidence building stepping stone to the next level which I think is a practical formal exam?

Underestimating your public was what I said, not misunderstanding.
I think we're a very knowledgeable bunch and the questions are not something you would answer without an extensive knowledge of brewing rather than an "interest in homebrew".
The lack of "formal" study is irrelevant, I think we do lots of informal studying and at the end of the day BJCP can't be that hard, it's about recognising off flavours in beer and understanding why they exist and also understanding what flavours and characteristics belong in a beer if it's to style, if you do a few of them you learn that pretty fast.

Not saying that. More of an effort to keep focussed for an hour than for two to six minutes, and I might have got lucky with the questions which is less likely with 200 questions.

There's a tasting test and a written exam as well.

Also, just to be clear everyone passes the sample test regardless of their score. Apparently the pass mark for the real thing is a secret but it used to be 60%.

Quote from: mr happy on August 29, 2013, 11:30:23 AM
Not saying that. More of an effort to keep focussed for an hour than for two to six minutes, and I might have got lucky with the questions which is less likely with 200 questions.

There's a tasting test and a written exam as well.

Also, just to be clear everyone passes the sample test regardless of their score. Apparently the pass mark for the real thing is a secret but it used to be 60%.

ahhh so if you make a stones of it then you pass too? So it's bullshit then?

Put your handbags away now girls

I have been brewing for over 5 years now and its an obsession, but you can't beat the practical.
Club Brewdays in 10 mins show 10 days worth of chat on here.
At the Alltech gig Tim O' Conner had 5 synthesized off flavours, I can now tell you with a degree of confidence what Metallic or TCP tastes like, and this was only an intro.
I am fairly practical and would know what an engine looks like whether its diesel or petrol, why it wasn't running properly or whats is wrong with it, but don't ask me to strip it to the engine block and put it together again. 
You will only get that from the practical element of the BJCP course.

I sat the Tim O rourke course / masterclass/ workshop. Excellent it was too. I hope Padraic has planned to bring some of his teaching ideas and sample off flavours into our BJCP course days. I'm sure he will. On the BJCP days it may be good to have more tasting challenges ( which we done at the end of the last day). Cant beat the practice. I have an oxidised wine left out in the sun for six months...thatll wake them up next day :)

you can buy these commercially
http://www.siebelinstitute.com/products-a-books/sensory-training-kits?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=18&category_id=6
but I think Tim mentioned somewhere else which was cheaper?

Quote from: Eoin on August 29, 2013, 11:34:51 AM
ahhh so if you make a stones of it then you pass too? So it's bullshit then?

Well, you can go back in and see how many you got right - so, not completely.

Quote from: mr happy on August 29, 2013, 01:13:29 PM

Quote from: Eoin on August 29, 2013, 11:34:51 AM
ahhh so if you make a stones of it then you pass too? So it's bullshit then?

Well, you can go back in and see how many you got right - so, not completely.

Hmmm I must check again

Quote from: Ciderhead on August 29, 2013, 11:55:05 AM
you can buy these commercially
http://www.siebelinstitute.com/products-a-books/sensory-training-kits?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=18&category_id=6
but I think Tim mentioned somewhere else which was cheaper?

Padraic mentioned that we can now get it for a LOT less than that.

Quote from: johnrm on August 29, 2013, 07:37:58 PM

Quote from: Ciderhead on August 29, 2013, 11:55:05 AM
you can buy these commercially
http://www.siebelinstitute.com/products-a-books/sensory-training-kits?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=18&category_id=6
but I think Tim mentioned somewhere else which was cheaper?

Padraic mentioned that we can now get it for a LOT less than that.

Really? I think this would be really cool to do at a club level.

Ask Padraic if its an easy exam!

Ye have just done the sample "tester" - now if I was designing a taster exam I have 3 choices:

1. Make it easy peasy and lull peeps into a false sense of security but at least I will get their 10 bucks when they sit the reall online exam and a few more if they try again.

2. Make it bloody hard that way no-one bothers me and wants to progress further.

3. Make it representative but lean towards option 1.

This is just the start of the BJCP path. The online exam qualifies you for not a lot!

Next you have the tasting exam - surely not easy peasy?.

Then after some experience points (10 I believe) you have about a three hour written exam!

Easy? I think not!

proper order... u only learn a lot if u study hard ;)

Quote from: johnrm on August 29, 2013, 07:37:58 PM

Quote from: Ciderhead on August 29, 2013, 11:55:05 AM
you can buy these commercially
http://www.siebelinstitute.com/products-a-books/sensory-training-kits?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=18&category_id=6
but I think Tim mentioned somewhere else which was cheaper?

Padraic mentioned that we can now get it for a LOT less than that.

About 40 odd sterling, we will deffo be buying one for Wicklow although obviously we never brew anything to these styles, probably just in case anything comes across the border!

I must check my notes
Group buy anyone?

Edit I've just had a brainfart
Perhaps the club could fund them for the local associations?



TT

online Exam
The online exam is merely a screening tool to confirm that the provisional judge has a good enough knowledge to be let near the tasting exam.
Is it hard? - this really depends on your level of knowledge... I'd be surprised if I wouldn't pass it if I say it again, would someone who hasn't at least glanced at the bjcp notes but has a good level of beer knowledge pass it, I don't think so but it is possible!
I'm recommending that people doing the course sit it in November/December when we've covered most of the beers!

Off flavours
For the people on the course we will be doing the Siebel kit and I will try to get it part funded by the bjcp.
I also hope to run a second Siebel tasting for members(probably January or February), but this tasting will not be eligible for any bjcp funding as far as I know!

Quote from: Padraic on August 30, 2013, 05:44:46 PM
online Exam
The online exam is merely a screening tool to confirm that the provisional judge has a good enough knowledge to be let near the tasting exam.
Is it hard? - this really depends on your level of knowledge... I'd be surprised if I wouldn't pass it if I say it again, would someone who hasn't at least glanced at the bjcp notes but has a good level of beer knowledge pass it, I don't think so but it is possible!
I'm recommending that people doing the course sit it in November/December when we've covered most of the beers!

Off flavours
For the people on the course we will be doing the Siebel kit and I will try to get it part funded by the bjcp.
I also hope to run a second Siebel tasting for members(probably January or February), but this tasting will not be eligible for any bjcp funding as far as I know!

+1

@mods:  Err Where's the thanks button gone