Professional brewery disinfectant up to 6 times cheaper than starsan

[Greg2013]

Brenmurph i would like to put myself forward for this. I don't mind a bus journey to get it wherever, however since my SE gang are incommunicado atm i don't know if anybody down here wants any.

[Hop Bomb]

Galway brewers looking for 6 litres so far (we may get more buyers yet)

[brenmurph]

@ hop bomb

Thats great, we will of course need to get it to ye if the buy goes ahead.  Would ye have anyone visits this end of the country regularly? Any of ye at the BJCP course in kavanaghs?

[Hop Bomb]

Yes we have one member doing the BJCP course. Cheers.

[brenmurph]

ye great we met Catherine today!     if shes willing to carry a gallon back on the bus that would be great..

[jus223]

Hey Guys,

I was reading the MSDS earlier and I dont mean to be the fun police or anything but I just wanted to point out how dangerous this stuff is if its not handled properly. In an earlier post I saw Hyrdox being compared to bleach so I though Id compare the first aid measures to both.



   
   
   
   
   

	Hydrox 5	Bleach
Inhalation	If inhaled: Bring accident victims out into the fresh air. If patient has difficulty in breathing, administer oxygen, keep the patient calm and warm. Call a physician immediately.	Inhalation: Remove to fresh air. If breathing is affected, call a physician
Eye contact	In case of eye contact: Speed IS ESSENTIAL Hold the eyes open and rinse with preferably lukewarm water for a sufficiently long period of time (at least 15 minutes). In case of difficulty opening the eye lids, administer an analgesic eye wash (oxybuprocaine) Call a physician or poison centre immediately. Take victim immediately to hospital.	Eye Contact: Hold eye open and rinse with water for 15-20 minutes. Remove contact lenses, after first 5 minutes. Continue rinsing eye.  Call a physician.
Skin contact	In case of skin contact: SPEED IS ESSENTIAL After contact with skin, wash immediately with plenty of water. Apply sterile protective bandage; Call a physician or poison centre immediately.	Skin Contact: Wash skin with water for 15-20 minutes. If irritation develops, call a physician.
Ingestion	If swallowed: If swallowed, rinse mouth with water (only if the person is conscious). DO NOT induce the patient to vomit, medical advice is required. Take the victim immediately to hospital	Ingestion: Do not induce vomiting. Drink a glassful of water. If irritation develops, call a physician. Do not give anything by mouth to an unconscious person.

Note how the Hydrox MSDS mentions SPEED IS ESSENTIAL and to call a physician immediately. Also, note under ingestion it is mentioned that medical advice is required.

I've dealt with both hydrogen peroxide and acetic acid (albeit in higher concentrations) before and they are quite dangerous. At the low concentration the hydrogen peroxide shouldnt be too bad, however one thing to note about hydrogen peroxide is that it can be a little explosive. I recall one time spilling some 70% acetic acid on the floor, and as well as fuming (which caused asphyxiation), it also ate through a reinforced concrete floor ( This did happen over a period of a couple of days so I really should have cleaned up that spill in a timely manner).

Saying all that if handled correctly then Hydrox 5 should be safe enough. Main things to note from the MSDS

• Keep in a well ventilated area
• Keep in a bund if possible
• Keep away from heat sources
• When you are diluting to the proportions you want for sanitising ensure to wear safety glasses, gloves, and an apron. Also, try to ensure that you do not have any skin exposed in case of splashes.

If you plan on splitting it into smaller quantities then ensure you are using the correct container materials. Steel coated, polyethylene, reinforced polyester, glass.

If you are planning on working with this chemical Id highly suggest reading through the MSDS paying particular attention to Section 4.0 First aid measures, Section 6 accidental release measures, Section 7 Handling and storage Section 8.2 Exposure controls.

[mr hoppy]

Interesting post and sorry to be stupid but what's a MSDS and where do you find it?

Also, what's a bund?

[brenmurph]

The debate goes on..
Appreciate all the safety info.

The concentration we are considering purchasing is 35% and of course like any chemical needs to follow safety advice.

Can someone compare to starsan, if anyone has not seen it its worth seeing it.

Ive already commented etensively on this topic on about 6 threads over the past months.

Starsan needs exactly the same caution, read the safety sheet if u are using starsan, bl;each, oxy action, its all the same re safety. Oxy action from Lidl causes terrible skin damage if wet powder hists skin.....and thats sold in lidl, hot bleach inhaled can kill u and thats sold in every corner shop.

I agree with the above post. with hydrogen peroxide NEAT however  in diluted form its almost harmless to humans and maybe even beneficial . So the issue is with the neat stuff whatever the chemical is.

This stuff is also available in 7%...whats the safety opinions on 7% version?  This means it goes around 5 times less. is it still hazardous at this level re its small explosive potential and so on?

[brenmurph]

 For peoples information as this topic will roll on as the club grows. For those many of you who think starsan is as safe as washing up liquid read below and note the close similarities with the HYdrox above.

I am highlighting this because the debate on the danger of Hydrox and or Hydrogen peroxide rolls on and I agree fully, I cant recall how many times Ive emphasised this, however I have not seen one reference to the fact that starsan ( available in the shops)  needs as much caution....see the txt below.... is from the manufacturers site.

Starsan is Dodecylbenzenesulfonic Acid and Phosphoric acid in high concentrations..heres its safety sheet:


DANGER:
Corrosive to skin and eye, contains Phosphoric Acid. Harmful if swallowed. Do not get in
ey
es, on skin or on clothing. Wear protective goggles and clothing when using. Avoid contamination of
food. DO NOT MIX STAR SAN
WITH CHLORINATED CLE
ANERS AS CHLORINE GA
S WILL RESULT
. Do not use or
store near heat or open flame. See label for more precaut
ionary information.
FIRST AID:
For Eyes
: Hold eyes open and rinse slowly and gently with water for 15
-
20 minutes. Remove contact
lenses, if present, after the first five minutes. Then continue rinsing. Call Poison Control Center or doctor
for treatme
nt advice.
If Swallowed
: Call Poison Control Center or doctor immediately for treatment advice. Have person sip
on a glass of water if able to swallow. Do not induce vomiting unless told to do so by the Poison Control
doctor. Do not give anything to an
unconscious person.
If on Skin or Clothing:
Take off contaminated clothing. Rinse skin immediately with plenty of water for
15
-
20 minutes. Call Poison Control Center for treatment advice.
If Inhaled
: Move person to fresh air. If person is not breath
ing call 911 or an ambulance, then give
artificial respiration, preferably mouth
-
to
-
mouth if possible. Call a Poison Control Center or doctor for
treatment.
NOTE TO PHYSICIAN:
Probable mucosal damage may contraindicate the use of gastric lavage.
Measure
against circulatory shock, respiratory depression and convulsion may be needed.

[jus223]

An MSDS is a Material Safety Data Sheet. It contains information about the chemical composition of a substance and gives information on the safe use, personal protective equipment required, storage info, transportation info, etc. MSDS's are be used a lot in industrial settings when dealing with any chemicals. You can find the MSDS for pretty much anything on google. For example
Fairy liquid MSDS http://www.trusthygiene.co.uk/Health%20&%20Safety%20Data%20Sheets%20-%20PDF/02766%20-%20Fairy%20Washing%20Up%20Liquid.pdf
Starsan MSDS http://www.jstrack.org/brewing/msds/starsan.pdf

A bund is basically a drip tray. Its used to ensure your chemicals dont start staining the floor or eating through the floor if they drip. http://safetystoragesystems.co.uk/spill-trays.php

Starsan looks safe enough, although its definitely not as safe as washing up liquid. However, saying that I wouldnt recommend that anybody drinks either, or puts them in their eyes. It does say on the MSDS for Starsan that you should wear gloves and safety glasses when you are using it in its concentrated form. If its diluted to the <300ppm concentration then Id say its pretty harmless. The worst thing about starsan would be the phosphoric acid. Ive dealt with this in its concentrated form though and its not too bad if you spill it on yourself i.e. You wouldnt get an acid burn or anything but it does give a rash. In relation to the Dodecylbenzene Sulfonic Acid, heres an interesting MSDS for a washing up liquid http://foynes.sfpc.ie/intranet/wp-content/uploads/msds/Total%20Cleaning%20Supplies/Clean%20n%20Fresh%20Lemon%20Washing%20up%20Liquid%20MSDS.pdf. Its got Dodecylbenzene Sulfonic Aaicd at 10% concentration. Probably shouldnt ingest that washing up liquid.

[BrewCity]

I love how that MSDS for Clean n Fresh washing up liquid says that if the soap gets on your skin you must wash your skin thoroughly with soap and water... *facepalm*
Also instructions on what to do if it spontaneously bursts into flames. haha, I can imagine it.

[johnrm]

Also instructions on what to do if it spontaneously bursts into flames.

It would make for an interesting experiment!

[mr hoppy]

The worst thing about starsan would be the phosphoric acid.

C'mon there's phosphoric acid in Coke.                              

[mr hoppy]

The other thing I notice is that the MSDS says that concentrated starsan has ph of 1 - does that mean that it's suitable for acid washing if diluted 1 part star san to 9 parts water?

[jus223]

Quote from: jus223 on Today at 10:29:05 pm

    The worst thing about starsan would be the phosphoric acid.


C'mon there's phosphoric acid in Coke.

Thats probably why its such a good cleaner   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RRHkVNx-3c   

The other thing I notice is that the MSDS says that concentrated starsan has ph of 1 - does that mean that it's suitable for acid washing if diluted 1 part star san to 9 parts water?

If you are talking about acid washing yeast then I am not sure if Star san would be entirely useful. The Dodecylbenzesulfonic acid might get in the way. Its worth a try but Im not sure what the quantities you'd have to dilute it too. My chemistry calculations are very poor nowadays.