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Professional brewery disinfectant up to 6 times cheaper than starsan

Started by brenmurph, August 15, 2013, 11:47:56 AM

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brenmurph

Quote from: Ciderhead on September 13, 2013, 01:09:28 PM
I'm continuing with Star San as 1 bottle lasts 1 year and I don't trust myself :)


Sent from my Fukushima Daiichi Geiger counter

just checkin cider is it a one litre bottle (32oz @ 30 euros)  or the little one (8oz @ 12 euros) that lasts you a year?

Shane Phelan

For me the small one is going to last me several years, I make up 5L at a time and reuse it for up to 3 brews. I use Oxy for cleaning.

If I didn't have so much of it left I would be considering going in on your GB.
Brew Log

brenmurph

Its not a formal group buy :) btw, Im judging whos interested in an alternative to starsan. If an 8oz bottle lasts for years there is no reason to change at all. . I was trying to figure how many brews u do in years....a lot less than us id say.. Im on my 3rd mash this week and ive another brewday on sunday :) ;) :D ;D and as I said a couple posts back there are tons of uses for h2o2 around the house where starsan would not be as economical like fecking a gallon down the toilet and so on

Again im aware starsan as a final sanitiser in brewing is economical, h2o2 has so many more advantages and besides as i said a gizillion times none of the breweries ( that im aware of) use starsan they (as far as im aware) use h2o2 :)

roll on the debate and  as mentioned a post or two ago..I will have a workable solution in a couple weeks that is safe, effective and cheap alternative that is a safe effective and cheap ( very cheap ) household all in one cleaner and steriliser that can eliminate a dozen or more household chemicals in one swoop, especially the toxic bleach :D

Shane Phelan

Yeah I like the fact that it can also be used as a cleaner, particularly for cleaning bottles where oxy leaves a residue but perhaps this solution does not? I would nearly get it for that application alone!
Brew Log

Ciderhead


brenmurph

And btw it does not expire in 6 months closer to 6 years by my research. For another debate!

Greg2013

I am also interested in this for the same reasons as Brenmurph, i want an all round kill all the germs but safe for humans sanitizer as well. I keep a few chickens and need something on a weekly basis that wont poison them and the enviroment, i have a dog that sleeps in the kitchen which requires cleaning on a daily basis (the kitchen not the dog),bathrooms,showers etc etc.

He is also bang on about the dangers of bleach versus peroxide, after all the peroxide even at 35% conc. or whatever it is, is NOT going to jump out of the bottle all by itself and burn everything in sight. Also +1 on the use by date,  that's just  to boost sales.
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."  Gen. James 'Mad Dog' Mattis USMC(Ret.)

brenmurph

Its more like for guarantee purposes coz the manufacturer cant be sure the end user stored it optimumly. Say you keep in a warm shed in a clear container, in sunlight  itll probably last 6 months :)

I agree with the boost sales bit, the chemist who made said its more like 6 years than 6 months.

Carbon ( the supplier) state:
"Chemical stability: Stable under normal handling and storage conditions. Commercial solutions ( which we have) are stabilised to reduce the risk of decomposition by contamination"

Evonix, major American manufacturer, quote on their stabilised h2o2

"With normal handling and cool storage, and when the necessary precautionary measures are observed, the losses of hydrogen peroxide are very slight even during extended periods (years) of storage"

so Ive also found out that when diluted to 3% shelf life is years as well if using RO or distilled water. In the domestic bottle of diluted stuff (600: 1 dilution / 500ppm) the shelf life is several weeks in a dark bottle stored cool.

Im still working on it and will keep ye informed. I have the stuff here in Kildare now and am playing ( safely) with the pros and cons of it and researching the best way to get this distributed with low ( non hazordous) risk, while being very economical and  most importantly as EFFECTIVE or greater than Starsan.

brenmurph

Chemistry lesson tonight.
Thanks to John RM & cider for helping get the h2o2 experiment / research under way.

Been spending a long time on this one and will spend a lot more.

First experiment was to assess if this stuff works in such a tiny tiny concentration. To put it into context I put 0.8 of a ml in a 500ml spray bottle this is a 600 times dilution as per the Carbon chemist's recomendation. Carbon already diluted their neat h2o2 by over 3 times thats a 2000 times dilution in water...unbelieveable that this well watered solution is of any use but read on
Ok so I learned through my own research how this stuff kills microrganisms.
H2o2 is everywhere, we humans produce it, its in the air. Bacteria and spores produce catalayse as a defence mechanism agains their potential oxidation (death) through natural levels of h2o2 that is everywhere. H2o2 at concentrations of 500ppm oxidases catalyse and then the microrganisms cant protect themselves. Bit like suncream to protect us from sun. No sun cream  means our skin oxidises and dies hence it peels and fallsoff.

Ok So the experiment to test the Power of h2o2.
Potatoes produce catalyse just like microrganisms and when a potato is in contact with h2o2 in the mix we are looking at (diluted 2000 times) have a look at the pics below.
20 seconds in the solution and the potato is getting fried :) ;) :D ;D just as the bacteria, yeast, virus, fungus, mould spore would.

re shelf life in the bottle. i will be leavin a solution of diluted stuff in a bottle and trying this test next week and the week after. to eliminate the rumours that h2o2 goes off, I will prove them wrong because as I know from my own scientific research, h2o2 is stable when handles and stored properly and does not go off overnight.

And just in case you think this is an acid dissolving the potato its not. Its oxidation, a natural process. The solution in the pics below is 100% non toxic, can be handled spilled and even rubbed on skin without any negative effect.

Hope you enjoyed this lesson.




johnrm

A potato! Do you not have and lab mice that would like a swim? ;)
I have to say that does look promising.
Is there something about breathable corks too that we need to look at?

brenmurph

The mice would happily swim arond in this 0.0016% solution.... all it will do is kill the bugs in their fur :) ;D


One of the problems is the supplier wont let out their secrets, all I know is the product is "stabilised" which means its protected against decomposition following contact with contaminants and heat / light and so on. Decomposition of h2o2 produces 02 as per pics and this created pressure in the vessel which could be potentially dangerous. The packaging in "food grade" or unstabilised h2o2 needs a steel coated polyester container to take pressure. However the stabilised is in 5 litre PE container.

Stored and handled properly theres no need for a breathable cap, another myth.

The reason I needed this and other experiments is cos I want to see the shelf life of the final diluted household product (spray bottle) and the shelf life of the diluted 35% neat stuff down to 3% or 7% and play it from there.

Ive use this stuff last night around kitchen sink drain holes, around toilet seat and so on, it works, incredilbly well at 600 times dilution, ( 2000 : 1 dilution from pure h2o2) at same time its non toxic and absolutely safe in this form.
It fizzes when it hits anything microbial and its obvious. Dosnt affect anything else. remember this is not an acid based cleaner its an oxidiser in the presence of microbes. First post tries explain the miracle, which I believe h2o2 is based on the evidence that has been around since the year splash. Its too cheap thats why the supermarkets are full of breach based cleaners, except in America where h2o2 seems to be popular as a general safe and effective all Rounder



Carbon are working on an odourless surfactant to directly replace starsan asa ano-rinse sanitiser that foams. at present it foams in contact with microbes which is prob even better because it shows where u havnt cleaned quite well enough :)

Ciderhead


brenmurph

I already have a masters (M.Sc. in Exercise & Nutrition ) and when u get to that level theres no rational to do another because you understand how to research and debate with a scientific rational for what u do and say..... 
I like to research and break myths...and theres many to break out there...thats why Kildare County Council call me the KCC's Nutrition Expert and keep giving me more work, cos when people hear and accept the truth they get great results and keep wanting more :)

Ciderhead

Dr Murphy it is so:)


Sent from my Fukushima Daiichi Geiger counter

brenmurph

Said Im a Master of Science not a PHD hed...so brenmurph will do  :) ;)