Mash efficiency

[CC]

Lads brew day today first effort at Belgian ale...

15l mash water treated with:
Camden
.5ml 80% lactic acid
6gm cal chlor

4.5kg Belgian Pilsner
1kg Vienna
500gm biscuit

Mashed 1hr @ 66c

20l sparge water treated:
Camden
0.5ml 80% lactic acid

Sparged @ 75c circa 15mins

After all this I had 24l of wort at s.g. 1.036...

This seems a bit low right??
I've had similar readings with less grain in the past.
Is this a difference in the sugar content of these grains that I've not used before???
Any thoughts on why efficiency might be low???

Plan is to add some candi sugar at the end of boil to bump up the abv a bit

[molc]

I'd have to put it into beersmith to check, but that's low alright. Looks like less than 60% efficiency. Batch or fly sparge? Maybe channeling in the mash from running off too quickly. I take about 40 mins to separate my liquor from my mash and start the boil as I do it, otherwise my efficiency drops.

Using that much of those grains before, when fresh, I've seen better. Also your lactic acid amount is teeny. How much of an effect is that having?

[craiclad]

Looks to be abut 47% efficiency... I'm guessing you were expecting something between 1.055-1.060? Have you switched anything up process wise?

[Leann ull]

http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/07/04/5-ways-to-improve-your-all-grain-beer-efficiency/

[RedWino]

I BIAB and normally have a mash efficiency in the mid-80's.

On one batch I had only ~50%, caused by a bad crush from the supplier
I have since invested in a grain mill....

How did the grain look after milling?

[CC]

thanks for the detailed info lads.... not great figures.

a couple of thoughts on differences with previous mashes which have always hit targets.

1) its my first time using the lactic acid. i had a brew last week with an efficiency of 78% with just salt additions to the water.i don't have a way of measuring ph so its possible, with my water profile (which is v soft) that i pushed the mash ph below 5.. which would inhibit enzyme conversion.

molc you reckon that 0.5ml is teeny... but am i right in saying that depending on the ionic profile of the starting water (and particularly the amount of carbonate)  similar amounts of lactic acid could have vastly different effects on the final ph??
so that with hard water you might need lots of lactic acid to lower ph but with soft water a teeny amount could significantly lower the ph??

2) i think the grain crush is always a concern with low mash efficiency.
i use a corona mill and have been through the mill (bada booooom!!) with stuck sparges previously.... so my milling process is as  regimented and repeatable as possible with this mill. suffice to say that its on the coarsest setting and i monitor very closely as i'm milling to make sure i'm getting the right balance of cracked husks/grains from the process without a hint of flour at all!

all told i'm pointing the finger at the lactic acid cos its the main difference between this and previous mashes which have been fine.

so to finish my brew day diary.....

after a 90min boil i had 13l of wort at 1.055... not a great return on my few hours labour so  i decided to go off piste with my recipe....

350g light candi crystals later + 3.5l boiled water  gave me a modest 16.5l at 1.056

white labs 500 now pitched and lets see how it gets on  at octobers meet!

[molc]

molc you reckon that 0.5ml is teeny... but am i right in saying that depending on the ionic profile of the starting water (and particularly the amount of carbonate)  similar amounts of lactic acid could have vastly different effects on the final ph??

Yup. I have soft water as well, with carbonates of ~170 ppm, but on a pale grist of similar size, I'm looking more at 6-8ml to get to 5.4, yet alone 5. 0.5ml just struck me as very very low, but without ph readings, really can't say much.

1.056 will still be a grand Belgian Pale. Looking forward to trying it. I'll probably have a saison that went from 1.055 to 1.001 with me as well, so we can be all very Belgian about it

[CC]

is that with the 80% lactic acid molc?

[molc]

Yeah sorry should have given the concentration. Got it from geterbrewed.

[Shanna]

RE your corona mill have you modded it to allow you crush using a drill? If not consider doing so details here

http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php?topic=3696.0

I had awful problems with crushing grain with too much flour. I picked up a tip where you moisten the grain 20 minutes before crushing with 2% by weight of water e.g 1kg spray with 20ml of water. This moistens the grain & allows a better uniform crush with out shredding the husk. It almost acts like a lube for the grain. My efficiency went way up after doing this & also never had any stuck sparge afterwards as u get a really solid grain bed with the crush.

See
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,15564.msg148943.html#msg148943

http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,9317.msg126720.html#msg126720

Shanna