National Homebrew Club Ireland

Planning on fining my beer for the first time next week. I have Kompactikleer and also gelatin and I'm wondering which is best/should I use both?

I wouldn't use both, but either shoudl be fine.
I think that kompacticleer stuff is isinglass

Gelatin, 1/2 tsp in 1/4 cup of water. Heat in microwave to 68C, stir, throw into fermenter at < 7C. 24 hours later, you should see the results and it will continue to clear in the keg.

how many g is that? where are you buying it?
http://www.tesco.ie/groceries/Product/Details/?id=280932920

I've bought the Dr.Oetker satchets as well. Was planning on using one satchet in a pint of water.

Don't mind using isinglass, tbh.

Cold crash first then add gelatin....somehow works better for ne

Quote from: irish_goat on August 12, 2016, 01:12:49 PM
I've bought the Dr.Oetker satchets as well. Was planning on using one satchet in a pint of water.

Don't mind using isinglass, tbh.

I use 1 sachet per 6 batches, same gelatin as you.

http://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/ gives everything you'll need.

Quote from: irish_goat on August 12, 2016, 01:12:49 PM
Was planning on using one satchet in a pint of water.

Way too much.

One sachet and you will end up with jelly beer. Would make for an interesting trifle..

Cheers lads.  :-[

its 7g or just over half a packet is what you need

Quote from: Pheeel on August 12, 2016, 04:03:44 PM
One sachet and you will end up with jelly beer. Would make for an interesting trifle..

;D Not quite.

I used one sachet for ages and wasn't too impressed with the results, cut back to less and its improved my clarity.

Can anybody here comment on whether the gelatin would negatively affect bottle conditioned beer? Wondering whether adding it in to the fermenter would cause too much yeast to drop out of suspension?

Shanna

It's fine. There's still plenty of yeast in there. Will take a little longer to carb, maybe another week, but otherwise it's the same.

This photo shows gelatin in action. This is couple of hours after about 1 gram (half tsp) in about 50ml. The green line is the dry hop that dropped from cold crashing and everything above it has dropped out after the gelatin. You can the globs of protein/yeast forming in suspension and these were all slowly dropping down. A day later there were none of these globs in suspension
I loosely follow the same procedure that Molc linked above. After I pour it in a give it a gentle stir near the surface so as it's dispersed across the top of the fermenter and won't just work down the middle

Can't get powdered gelatin I would assume that leaf gelatin would do? What amount of gelatin in grams is required for  19 ltr batch? Time to find my jewellery/coke scales to weigh out the gelatin.

Shanna

Quote from: Shanna on August 13, 2016, 02:17:26 PM
Can't get powdered gelatin I would assume that leaf gelatin would do? What amount of gelatin in grams is required for  19 ltr batch? Time to find my jewellery/coke scales to weigh out the gelatin.

Shanna

Baking section in Tesco should have the powdered stuff.

Dr oecteur powdered gelatin is in all the major supermarkets in the baking section. Leaf is meant to be a right pain to work with...

Quote from: molc on August 13, 2016, 02:44:26 PM
Dr oecteur powdered gelatin is in all the major supermarkets in the baking section. Leaf is meant to be a right pain to work with...

3 super market baking sections I have gone to so far no joy. Search continues :)

Shanna

Shanna, Asian or Halal shops will have it.

Quote from: cruiscinlan on August 13, 2016, 08:22:30 PM
Shanna, Asian or Halal shops will have it.

Will try them thanks,

Shanna

Just bought some in Tescos Greystones and that's not a big store :-\

Quote from: CH on August 13, 2016, 08:40:21 PM
Just bought some in Tescos Greystones and that's not a big store :-\

Going to try Tesco in Stillorgin later today.

Shanna

Let me know how you get on I can always drop some through your letterbox, can't believe nobody cooks in Blackrock anymore darling ;)

Quote from: CH on August 14, 2016, 12:47:14 PM
Let me know how you get on I can always drop some through your letterbox, can't believe nobody cooks in Blackrock anymore darling ;)

Too much Donny Brook fair one expects :) Give us a chance to check Tesco & the local Asian food store before you go wasting your diesel dropping it off to me (appreciate the offer).

Shanna

Well if your really stuck and can't find them, I can just pick up and give to you at a meet.

Quote from: molc on August 14, 2016, 06:21:54 PM
Well if your really stuck and can't find them, I can just pick up and give to you at a meet.

Tesco Stillorgan had them, picked them up a few hours ago. Thanks for the offers of supplying them guys. Would 2gr in a 19litre batch be OK? Never dropped the temp in my brew fridge to 0C so should be a good test as its holding steady at 5C already.

Shanna

Sound you need 7g or half a packet per batch of 23l, it's 12 in each of those so I guess 5-6g would do it
I flush with co2 stir in and flush again
Gonna try this on a Pilsner tomorrow.
I understand you have to get solution to 68 by zapping in a microwave?

Quote from: molc on August 12, 2016, 02:09:04 PM

Quote from: irish_goat on August 12, 2016, 01:12:49 PM
I've bought the Dr.Oetker satchets as well. Was planning on using one satchet in a pint of water.

Don't mind using isinglass, tbh.

I use 1 sachet per 6 batches, same gelatin as you.

http://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/ gives everything you'll need.

CH quoted 6/7gr. You reference 1 pack doing 6 batches. The sachets I got are 12gr what sized sachets did you get?

Shanna

Quote from: Shanna on August 14, 2016, 09:08:19 PM

Quote from: molc on August 12, 2016, 02:09:04 PM

Quote from: irish_goat on August 12, 2016, 01:12:49 PM
I've bought the Dr.Oetker satchets as well. Was planning on using one satchet in a pint of water.

Don't mind using isinglass, tbh.

I use 1 sachet per 6 batches, same gelatin as you.

http://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/ gives everything you'll need.

CH quoted 6/7gr. You reference 1 pack doing 6 batches. The sachets I got are 12gr what sized sachets did you get?

Shanna

Normal packets - not to hand right now. I got a box at the start of the year and I've only started my second sachet from it two batches ago. It's still more than half full.

I go religiously by http://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/ Check that and come back with questions/differences but it's my process, start to end.

Quote from: molc on August 14, 2016, 09:16:41 PM

Quote from: Shanna on August 14, 2016, 09:08:19 PM

Quote from: molc on August 12, 2016, 02:09:04 PM

Quote from: irish_goat on August 12, 2016, 01:12:49 PM
I've bought the Dr.Oetker satchets as well. Was planning on using one satchet in a pint of water.

Don't mind using isinglass, tbh.

I use 1 sachet per 6 batches, same gelatin as you.

http://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/ gives everything you'll need.

CH quoted 6/7gr. You reference 1 pack doing 6 batches. The sachets I got are 12gr what sized sachets did you get?

Shanna

Normal packets - not to hand right now. I got a box at the start of the year and I've only started my second sachet from it two batches ago. It's still more than half full.

I go religiously by http://brulosophy.com/2015/01/05/the-gelatin-effect-exbeeriment-results/ Check that and come back with questions/differences but it's my process, start to end.

It quotes 1/2 spoon but no indication what a spoon is. Will split the difference & go with 4gr, can always use it to make trifle if it does not work out :)

Shanna

Hehe I use 1/2 tsp and it seems to clear :)

1 teaspoon is supposed to be 5g
I'd say go with half a teaspoon and see how it performs

Quote from: CH on August 14, 2016, 09:40:13 PM
1 teaspoon is supposed to be 5g
I'd say go with half a teaspoon and see how it performs

Just added 1/2 teaspoon there @68C now, dropped the temp on the STC1000 to 1C. Now to leave it for two to three days to see how it clears. Hope to keg on Wednesday & force card with a view to having the first pint on Friday.

Shanna

Quote from: Shanna on August 14, 2016, 10:36:24 PM

Quote from: CH on August 14, 2016, 09:40:13 PM
1 teaspoon is supposed to be 5g
I'd say go with half a teaspoon and see how it performs

Just added 1/2 teaspoon there @68C now, dropped the temp on the STC1000 to 1C. Now to leave it for two to three days to see how it clears. Hope to keg on Wednesday & force card with a view to having the first pint on Friday.

Shanna

Well how did the first fining with gelatin experiment turn out?

I added 5 grams,one kitchen scale teaspoon full to a cask ale I have brewed about 3 days ago so will let yis know how I get on in a week or two.

Quote from: garciaBernal on August 25, 2016, 10:46:35 AM

Quote from: Shanna on August 14, 2016, 10:36:24 PM

Quote from: CH on August 14, 2016, 09:40:13 PM
1 teaspoon is supposed to be 5g
I'd say go with half a teaspoon and see how it performs

Just added 1/2 teaspoon there @68C now, dropped the temp on the STC1000 to 1C. Now to leave it for two to three days to see how it clears. Hope to keg on Wednesday & force card with a view to having the first pint on Friday.

Shanna

Well how did the first fining with gelatin experiment turn out?

Only had a small glass so far but was reasonably happy with it as it pretty clear. Dropping the fridge to 1C did not work. It only caused a massive build up of ice inside the fridge & the temp stuck @3C. Eventually I put it back up 4C.

Shanna

If you put a 12v computer fan in the fridge it will continue to chill and no ice. Also bring your fridge to temp quickly saving elec.

Normally I just leave in fridge in secondary or keg and forget about it for 2 months, and have used pro finings and A and B "quik clear" also in past.

Using gelatin 6g and 1/4 pint for 30 secs in an 800w microwave got me to 68.
Backwash with co2 from tank and a gentle swirl as I understand you should avoid swirling onto Krausen.

This was her unchilled

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160825/d33bf61842718b2a276fe567b3e46887.jpg)

Chilled 4 degrees 24hrs, normally I go a week, not a lot tbh

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160825/0f4d3b73affbd7992ae456d0322c80b3.jpg)


but you can just make out the shelf at the back, let's see what the finings do which were chucked in tonight

Is that the Galaxy pils with M54 CH? very interested to see how that turns out

Yep might make a "Boy Racer" out of it yet, deffo a first for me, pics in a glass in a week

Quote from: CH on August 25, 2016, 09:37:46 PM
If you put a 12v computer fan in the fridge it will continue to chill and no ice. Also bring your fridge to temp quickly saving elec.

Oh Bollox checking it this morning I just made a Beer Mr Freeze weird as only mid section frooze   :-[

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160826/d8873f3b4ed72cd7f8c010ce17ae8e48.jpg)

It won't do it any harm but does show you how cold you can get a fridge with a fan  :D

Beer slushies! I just fine and ramp down to 3 fir 3 days then package. It's pretty clear going in and really clear when it comes to serving.

Is that the fridge at 4c?

It is a new fridge with a dial 1-5, I set it at 4 but the fan with wind chill was obviously getting the compressor to stay on.
I just measured and its 1 Degree at coldest point and I turrned fridge off a couple of hours ago. Stc to go in it at the weekend!

Quote from: CH on August 25, 2016, 09:37:46 PM
If you put a 12v computer fan in the fridge it will continue to chill and no ice. Also bring your fridge to temp quickly saving elec.

Normally I just leave in fridge in secondary or keg and forget about it for 2 months, and have used pro finings and A and B "quik clear" also in past.

Using gelatin 6g and 1/4 pint for 30 secs in an 800w microwave got me to 68.
Backwash with co2 from tank and a gentle swirl as I understand you should avoid swirling onto Krausen.

This was her unchilled

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160825/d33bf61842718b2a276fe567b3e46887.jpg)

Chilled 4 degrees 24hrs, normally I go a week, not a lot tbh

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160825/0f4d3b73affbd7992ae456d0322c80b3.jpg)


but you can just make out the shelf at the back, let's see what the finings do which were chucked in tonight

Fridge was bought second hand but looked almost new when I got it. It also has two twelve volt DC computer fans in already. Fridge is set @5.5 of 7 dial. Set the STC @4C. I suspect part of the problem is I taped the STC temp probe to the side of the keg & it might be feckin up the reading.

Shanna

Found this in Supervalu. Will it work the same?

leave it 1/3 up suspended in air off the side wall, not in cups of water or styrofoamed to the side of the fv either.

tesco has reduced youngs beer finings to 37 cent per dose. Its hard to find any real info on it other than its made from the small shell fish.  Anyone have any experience  with it?

If a pic tells a thousand words here's the pic

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160828/ba964d5ca8e1634dd6d5883ccf036f66.jpg)

Quote from: CH on August 26, 2016, 06:36:28 PM
leave it 1/3 up suspended in air off the side wall, not in cups of water or styrofoamed to the side of the fv either.

Why not stuck to the fv?

To avoid ramping lag.
Plastic fermenters act as very good insulators, styrofoam makes it worse, unless of course you are using glass or stainless fermenters.
Best location is always in a thermowell with measuring tip 1/3 way down the liquid being measured.

I use glass but don't have a thermowell.

Quote from: CH on August 28, 2016, 03:40:41 PM
If a pic tells a thousand words here's the pic

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160828/ba964d5ca8e1634dd6d5883ccf036f66.jpg)

That looks pretty good to me!  How's it tasting CH?

Edit;   Never mind, I just saw the other thread. 

So what can we use post fermentation as a fining agent that doesn't contain animals? I'm a meat eater myself but don't fancy clearing my beer with gelatin out of consideration for my friends/consumers! 

You can pump it through a 1 micron filter or hit it with a blast of cold for a week and transfer to another container/bottle.

Devils advocate point: A lot of breweries use isinglass, which is fish scales no? They don't declare there are animal products I'm their beer. Do we need to worry about even telling people there is a trace amount of gelatin in our beer?

I think isinglass is made from swimbladder. The logic for not declaring it is because it has dropped out prior to bottling.
It's more of a religious/philosophical debate. Personally, I use gelatine and if people don't want to drink it I'm OK with that.

If you're veggie or vegan having had an animal product used in the making of the product is sufficient for them not to drink it, dropped out or not. So best to mention it!

I don't know any full blown vegetarians.
I had a summer job as a student in a salad prepping factory and if you saw some of the meat that salad got exposed to, you'd happily take a risk on 1ppm gelatin

My sister is vegan so she doesn't get to drink my clear beers. She uses this website to check if a drink has had animal products used in production. http://www.barnivore.com/beer?region=Ireland

Had a look at that and all the craft brewers are friendly except Bru brewery :o. What are they doing that the others arn't  :-\

They filter?

With what do they filter with dear lizer dear lizer  :D

Trouble as well

They have that very fancy portable filtration system on a trolly no?

that in itself would not make it anti vegan though

Spose question is how was info obtained and how current is it. O Haras clearly told them to p o.

If you click into the beers listed, it shows whatever information they have from the brewery. In a lot of cases, it's direct contact with them via email. In other cases it's just info from the website.

O'Haras is listed as unknown because of this:

QuoteCompany email (November 2015):
"Currently the beers we produce are vegan friendly however there will be some old stock on the shelves in the country which may contain Isinglass. These will obviously be eradicated over time but as the bottles have an 18 month shelf life we have to state this."

Whereas this is what they got from McGargles, for example:

QuoteCompany email (June 2016)
"All our beer and cider are vegan friendly, we do all our own bottling and kegging on site. Our brewers are passionate about beer and make sure everything is up to standard, one of our brewers is vegan. They only use the best ingredients and don't allow anything no vegan into the brewery."

bentonite and biofine clear are both vegan friendly as far as i know. Probably loads more.
Not sure how bentonite would work in beer, but it's cracking stuff for wine.