National Homebrew Club Ireland

I have been managing to make it back to ireland twice a year or so and have always managed to sample offerings from newer breweries.

If I am in Dublin or Galway that can include very interesting offerings, but mostly I am limited to supermarket craft beer.

Choice is improving a lot, but quality is a lot more variable than I would expect.

Bottle Conditioned/store upright is brewery slang for "ruined if knocked over by cashier" in many cases.

Style descriptions can be applied haphazardly with little regard for similarity for the archetypical examples.

Does anyone know if a curated Good Beer Guide for Irish beer? The Irish market seems especially crazy - a lot of little guys trying their hand, macro beer mutton dressed as lamb, and quite a few bandwagon operations trying to cash in on an uneducated beer market.

I have tried quite a few over the last 10 days, and wasn't expecting the "meh" count to be as high as it was.

Not interested in starting a flame war here.

Not sure if there is a guide out there. Generally the media dont call it as it is, maybe afraid they wont get free beer or something, so I dont rely on media / blogger sources. There are a few great breweries in Ireland, doing top notch work. But generally the beer is pissy enough. 'The state of it is right'.

I'm afraid that the meh count is high all right. Have not seen or heard of a good beer guide yet.

Plenty of meh beers out there alright.

In terms of guide books, Sláinte  (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Slainte-Complete-Guide-Irish-Craft/dp/1848403747)was released a few years ago but the problem is obviously that it is outdated by the time it even hits the shelves. I would tend to follow The Beer Nut's (https://thebeernut.blogspot.co.uk/) blog and use it as a reference for new beers. If I'm in the pub I'll get a sample first as well but I do find myself sticking more and more to the reliable breweries. Kinnegar, in my mind are the best for ensuring you get a decent beer.

Ok so it's not just me then. Was worried my tastes might have been spoiled.

The better question is which breweries have opened in the last 1-3 years are producing good beer.

It really is a crapshoot taking a chance on a newer brewery that you have never heard of.

You are spot on. In my experience most Irish beers are below average and are not worth the entry fee. Was recently at the beerfest in Killarney and I'd only repurchase 4 of the 15 beers I tried. I find the likes of Whiplash, Yellowbelly and White hag to be better than most.

I'd also flag Yellowbelly, Whiplash and White Hag. And add Dot Brewing.

Rascals are always good too.

8 Degrees, Kinnegar and O Brother are all of a high standard too. I'd lob in Blacks also.

Anyone brave enough to start a shit list?

Quote from: molc on June 21, 2017, 03:59:12 PM
Rascals are always good too.

Their IPA is one of the better ones around alright. Actually lasts more than a couple of weeks on the shelf before it loses all its flavour and aroma.

Would love to see something like this. Love trying new beers, but keep going back to the same few. Many of the beers, i've thought to myself,  that id be disappointed if i brewed this, (and i don't brew good beers, believe me).
Think this idea was purposed before, but not pursued due to the clubs close association with homebrewers turned  pro, and the such ( but, would be nice to see good beer praised- doesn't have to turn into a slating of beers/breweries. Focus on the positives)

Quote from: johnrm on June 21, 2017, 04:39:38 PM
Anyone brave enough to start a shit list?

Stationworks
Five Lamps
Clearsky
Irishtown Brewing Co

Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on June 21, 2017, 12:40:02 AM
Style descriptions can be applied haphazardly with little regard for similarity for the archetypical examples.

Whatever about the other points here, this is wide of the mark. The BJCP guidelines put it best when they say:

Quote
Not every commercial beer fits our styles. Don't assume that every beer fits neatly into one of our categories. Some breweries revel in creating examples that don't match our (or anyone else's) guidelines. Some create beers called a style name that deliberately don't match our guidelines. It's perfectly fine for a commercial beer to not match one of our styles; we have not attempted to categorize every commercial beer – that is not our intent or our mission.

+1 on the meh beers I'd say a good 70% of the time when I try an Irish Ipa I'm disappointed.

Quote from: mr hoppy on June 21, 2017, 09:49:02 PM

Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on June 21, 2017, 12:40:02 AM
Style descriptions can be applied haphazardly with little regard for similarity for the archetypical examples.

Whatever about the other points here, this is wide of the mark. The BJCP guidelines put it best when they say:
<snip>

I am not talking about BJCP. It's why I used "archetypical examples" ie the commercial examples most associated with the style.

Quote from: armedcor on June 21, 2017, 11:24:07 PM
+1 on the meh beers I'd say a good 70% of the time when I try an Irish Ipa I'm disappointed.

I agree, very few good pale ales being produced here. Galway Bay are knocking outstanding pale ales consistently, definitely my favorite brewery for pale ales.

Quote from: irish_goat on June 21, 2017, 07:14:41 PM

Quote from: johnrm on June 21, 2017, 04:39:38 PM
Anyone brave enough to start a shit list?

Stationworks
Five Lamps
Clearsky
Irishtown Brewing Co

Gonna throw in Mel's & Black Donkey to this.

Black Donkey - Sheep Stealer is in my top 5 Irish beers.

Quote from: garciaBernal on June 21, 2017, 04:04:56 PM
8 Degrees, Kinnegar and O Brother are all of a high standard too. I'd lob in Blacks also.

Recently had a bottle of Black's Black IPA, a beer I loved, it ain't what it used to be!

Mels for their brown ale
Blacks for their rocket ship ipa
O haras for their Leann follain
White gypsy for their Belgian
Yellowbelly for their pa.
But still looking for a go to pale ale

Quote from: Slev on June 22, 2017, 09:49:22 AMBut still looking for a go to pale ale

White Hag Little Fawn would be the best pale ale on the market for me.

Quote from: irish_goat on June 22, 2017, 10:48:34 AM

Quote from: Slev on June 22, 2017, 09:49:22 AMBut still looking for a go to pale ale

White Hag Little Fawn would be the best pale ale on the market for me.

Definitely- and Yellowbelly's Citra Pale Ale

Quote from: phynes1 on June 22, 2017, 09:30:28 AM
Black Donkey - Sheep Stealer is in my top 5 Irish beers.

Maybe it should be a shit list by style (roughly, not bjcp). E.g. I'm really not a fan of Sheep Stealer, but I don't like Saisons at all so it would be pointless me trashing it when it could be the best Saison ever.

... Maybe there should be a 'shit-styles' list (runs for cover).

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One man's shit is another man's gold. Anyway, isn't this problem already solved by ratebeer, untappd etc?

I am never hung up on styles, if a beer is brewed well then that's all I expect. Problem is some of them are brewed poorly and instead of excepting this and look to improve they seem to continue doing it again and again. I think packaging is where most fall down on.

And we should be mindful, that the livelihoods of folk could be affected. So a shitty list could be quite unfair.

Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on June 21, 2017, 12:40:02 AM

Does anyone know if a curated Good Beer Guide for Irish beer? The Irish market seems especially crazy - a lot of little guys trying their hand, macro beer mutton dressed as lamb, and quite a few bandwagon operations trying to cash in on an uneducated beer market.

I have tried quite a few over the last 10 days, and wasn't expecting the "meh" count to be as high as it was.

Not interested in starting a flame war here.

Amen to that.

There's also a third category of small brewed under license operations, that aren't craft but aren't macro either, Kenmare are an example of that.


Bru
Oharas
8 degrees
Metalman
Bo bristle
Carrig
Wicklow wolf
JJ's
Connemara
Galway Hooker
Dungarven
Porterhouse
White Gypsy
Jack Cody
Hope
Mountain Man
Black Sheep


All make poor, boring or inconsistent beers. Some make one good beer, which only makes the rest of the range incongruous.

Though there's obviously way worse, I think a lot here are taken in by yellowbellys shiny marketing. They've done a lot of subpar beers; mostly on tap, the stuff that makes it to cans is more serviceable. Nice guys and improving constantly, but a shining beacon of quality on the Irish beer scene? Not in this drinkers humble opinion.

Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on June 22, 2017, 01:04:24 AM
I am not talking about BJCP. It's why I used "archetypical examples" ie the commercial examples most associated with the style.

I know you didn't and I didn't say you that you did either.  My point was that the BJCP has the good sense to recognise that commercial brewers don't brew to style (howsoever defined), and we should follow their lead in this.

I'd be really interested to hear you expand on your concept of "archetypal examples".

Quote from: cruiscinlan on June 22, 2017, 07:47:26 PM
Bru
Oharas
8 degrees
Metalman
Bo bristle
Carrig
Wicklow wolf
JJ's
Connemara
Galway Hooker
Dungarven
Porterhouse
White Gypsy
Jack Cody
Hope
Mountain Man
Black Sheep

All make poor, boring or inconsistent beers. Some make one good beer, which only makes the rest of the range incongruous.

Christ, that's a harsh list.

O'Hara's seasonals aren't great but their red, stout and Leann Follain are the best in the their respective styles in Ireland, imo. 8 Degrees make great IPA and have won a few (actually noteworthy) awards for them. Porterhouse's stouts are great, especially Wrasslers. Hope have some very good IPAs and pale ales out and I've heard great things about their other beers. White Gypsy make great weiss and lagers. I would agree with some of the others though/don't have enough experience of them.

Black Sheep are English as well, btw.

+1 White gypsy lagers are particularly excellent. Maybe they don't have enough hops?

Quote from: cruiscinlan on June 22, 2017, 07:47:26 PM

Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on June 21, 2017, 12:40:02 AM

Does anyone know if a curated Good Beer Guide for Irish beer? The Irish market seems especially crazy - a lot of little guys trying their hand, macro beer mutton dressed as lamb, and quite a few bandwagon operations trying to cash in on an uneducated beer market.

I have tried quite a few over the last 10 days, and wasn't expecting the "meh" count to be as high as it was.

Not interested in starting a flame war here.

Amen to that.



All make poor, boring or inconsistent beers. Some make one good beer, which only makes the rest of the range incongruous.

So what would be an example of a beer that you would recommend?

It's worth noting as well that anyone complaining in this thread obviously hasn't been to many parts of the continent recently where any kind of craft beer at all is scarce to none. I'm sure plenty of people can jump in with counter examples but it really took a recent trip to Italy for me  to realise how far ahead we actually are here in Ireland. Behind the US, way ahead of Europe.

Quote from: Paul B on June 22, 2017, 08:39:00 PM
It's worth noting as well that anyone complaining in this thread obviously hasn't been to many parts of the continent recently where any kind of craft beer at all is scarce to none. I'm sure plenty of people can jump in with counter examples but it really took a recent trip to Italy for me  to realise how far ahead we actually are here in Ireland. Behind the US, way ahead of Europe.

I'd say it's dependent on where you go. I found plenty of options in Milan in April, but was in Rome & Ancona last year and the choice was poor. I've found the variance is the same across Europe depending on what cafés, bars and restaurants you visit.

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Quote from: irish_goat on June 22, 2017, 08:16:15 PM

Christ, that's a harsh list.

O'Hara's seasonals aren't great but their red, stout and Leann Follain are the best in the their respective styles in Ireland, imo. 8 Degrees make great IPA and have won a few (actually noteworthy) awards for them. Porterhouse's stouts are great, especially Wrasslers. Hope have some very good IPAs and pale ales out and I've heard great things about their other beers. White Gypsy make great weiss and lagers. I would agree with some of the others though/don't have enough experience of them.

Black Sheep are English as well, btw.

O'Haras Leann Follain was a different beer before they moved to the new bottling plant. On keg it's lovely, but the point is consistency.

Some of the brewers on that list put gorgeous beer into bright tanks and then ruin it through pasteurization or poor processing.

Porterhouse have been dialling it in for years and again their beers suffer from inconsistencies, their plain porter was a fantastic beer but when I've tasted it in their own bars this year it has been poor.

The original 8 degrees hurricane was great, but again is not what it was.

Black donkey turned into black sheep for some reason on my phone.

We've all suffered from beers being released that should have been tipped and a culture whereby brewers can't/won't accept criticism is bad for the industry and consumers. 

If you're a producer and people tell you that stuff is inconsistent you need to use that to go back to your tasting panel, review your batch logs and make amends so people keep coming back to you.

You can't satisfy everyone's palate but you certainly should be producing the same profile all the time for what you make. 

Cruiscinlan is talking a lot of sense.

Depends where u are Paul B. I was in Copenhagen last year and the local beers would shit all over any of the beers I tried around Dublin a couple of weekends ago. What doesn't help these breweries is when u are paying over €6/pint for something that u wouldn't take to a local club meet if u had brewed it yourself.

I'd agree with not posting the shit list if it was our responsibility to champion Irish craft beer but that's not our mission.

If these Brewers were worried about their jobs they might put the effort into consistent brewing. I'll always try a new Irish brew or micro when I get the chance but I'm sick of being disappointed so often.

The argument that we should be lucky compared to some countries really isn't a valid one.

I have to say at the price point for bottles of Irish craft beer especially I have little issue with people criticising them.

I do think packaging and handling are the main issues facing the industry but IMO breweries are far too accepting of poor practices. You can already see improvement since the cans came in. 95% of the Irish beer I buy now is in can because I just trust it much more and talking to brewers that seems to be because the mobile canning operation most use is actually quite good.

The beers don't last pissing time on the shelf and in storage either. Its hard to control what happens in the shops but I've seen breweries that have slabs of their beer sitting out in warm areas during the summer. Is it any wonder their beers are stale by the time they reach my glass?

I wonder if it's a case of business people seeing an opportunity in the market and opening a brewery and not knowing what they're doing as opposed to a passionate brewer knowing his craft and opening a brewery. There are so many poor breweries in operation and I would have no hesitation in putting a shit list together. As a brewer I would be ashamed if that was some of my beer on the market. That said, it's all subjective. A brewery I think is muck could be the next guys favourite but I'm betting there's a few that the majority agree on.
Price point is another issue. I know the micros don't have economies of scale but the prices some charge are a bit ridiculous for what you get and for that reason I avoid a lot of Irish breweries when I can get far superior European/American beers for the same price if not cheaper

A list will accomplish nothing, also as others have said people disagree on whats good and whats not, as evidenced even in this thread. Just vote with your wallet and move on.

Any chance of something like this?

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/magazine/commercial-calibration/

Even the odd one from our top judges would be brilliant.

The time we all got the same beer and people reviewed it was a bit like that. Pity that never took off regularly.

Yeh, but no. Commercial calibration is people who know their onions giving the rest of us something to work off. And they could stick to stuff they like or things like Old Speckled Hen that aren't local but are readily available and evidence a variety of off tastes if they wanted.

I think that list is pretty harsh. There are at least three breweries that have no place on that list. There are plenty of breweries that would end up ahead of it
I think the problem is that Ireland never had its growing up period. In the States there was 10 years between the first local breweries to the mad IPAs. We skipped that and there are plenty of money men who have no idea what the product is while the general population has not interest in craft beer as they weren't taken on the journey

Quote from: Qs on June 24, 2017, 12:30:22 AM
The time we all got the same beer and people reviewed it was a bit like that. Pity that never took off regularly.

We could give it a go again?

I'd be on for it anyway.

Feck it, let's go for it then. I'll start a thread.

Quote from: Pheeel on June 24, 2017, 09:07:07 AM
I think that list is pretty harsh. There are at least three breweries that have no place on that list. There are plenty of breweries that would end up ahead of it
I think the problem is that Ireland never had its growing up period. In the States there was 10 years between the first local breweries to the mad IPAs. We skipped that and there are plenty of money men who have no idea what the product is while the general population has not interest in craft beer as they weren't taken on the journey

Agreed- there's a few Brand-Before-Beer and "Meee Tooo"s that are not listed...

Quote from: mr hoppy on June 22, 2017, 08:12:03 PM

I know you didn't and I didn't say you that you did either.  My point was that the BJCP has the good sense to recognise that commercial brewers don't brew to style (howsoever defined), and we should follow their lead in this.

I'd be really interested to hear you expand on your concept of "archetypal examples".

BJCP Competition style guides are very far from an authority on beer styles and shouldn't be treated as such.

A beer style sets the customers expectations, which were established by experience with more widely available beers.

Czech Pilsner is recognisably different from other lagers, and PU, staropramen and budvar are the recognisable or archetypical commercial examples that define it.

Ditto Guinness, SNPA, London Pride, Westmalle Dubbel etc.

My original comment referred to Irish micros willingness to throw any style that will stick at their beers. You know there is nothing wrong with calling your beer a lager?

I don't think you'd get far in a Prague pub if you asked for a pint of "your finest Czech pilsner". :D

If you've not seen it before you should have a look at this article by Martyn Cornell about how Michael Jackson invented beer styles (http://zythophile.co.uk/2010/10/23/michael-jackson-and-the-invention-of-beer-style/) in 1977.

Quote from: TheSumOfAllBeers on June 26, 2017, 02:55:42 PM
My original comment referred to Irish micros willingness to throw any style that will stick at their beers.

Brewers have always done this, and do it everywhere that they aren't prohibited from doing so by law. If you expect them to match up to your preconceptions you will always be disappointed, and while I've also been disappointed by beers that didn't meet my expectations creativity and diversity are more important. For example, if O'Hara's had treated Guinness as an archetypal example there'd be no Lean Follain.

But O'Haras have a dry stout too. Its different from Guinness but still correctly labelled as an Irish Stout while LF is labelled as an extra stout. These labels make sense. Also there is a difference between being creative and working without boundaries and just making any old shite and throwing IPA on the label.

Quote from: Pheeel on June 24, 2017, 09:07:07 AM
I think that list is pretty harsh. There are at least three breweries that have no place on that list. There are plenty of breweries that would end up ahead of it.

The reasons for the selection are given in the post, it's not good enough to make a good beer every third batch.  There are many missing because I make no claim to have tried every Irish made beer.

Quote from: Qs on June 27, 2017, 02:56:04 PM
But O'Haras have a dry stout too. Its different from Guinness but still correctly labelled as an Irish Stout while LF is labelled as an extra stout. These labels make sense.

Except none of these beers is actually described by its brewers as a dry stout and until recently bottled Guinness (at a whopping 4.1%) was labelled as extra stout.

As for making shite and throwing IPA on the label, I'd have thought making shite was the problem, not putting IPA on the label.

Quote from: mr hoppy on June 27, 2017, 07:47:13 PM

Quote from: Qs on June 27, 2017, 02:56:04 PM
But O'Haras have a dry stout too. Its different from Guinness but still correctly labelled as an Irish Stout while LF is labelled as an extra stout. These labels make sense.

Except none of these beers is actually described by its brewers as a dry stout and until recently bottled Guinness (at a whopping 4.1%) was labelled as extra stout.

O'Haras call their one a dry Irish stout.

http://www.carlowbrewing.com/our-beers/oharas-irish-stout/?ao_confirm

Quote from: mr hoppy on June 27, 2017, 07:47:13 PMAs for making shite and throwing IPA on the label, I'd have thought making shite was the problem, not putting IPA on the label.

Maybe I should have said putting out some nondescript pale ale with fuck all bitterness or hop flavour and a shitty fermentation and slapping IPA on the label.

It's not that long ago that all Irish beers labelled IPA pretty much fell into that category, plus or minus the shitty fermentation.

I'm not in any way saying that we should be grateful or content with what we have out there now, but rewind back to 7 or 8 years ago, when there was a dearth of anything resembling pales, IPA's, etc in the local offies or pubs.

I remember as little as 4 years ago when, if I couldn't be bothered making the trip to the large Tesco or Sainsburys (usually because I'd get handed a large grocery list if I hinted I was going) the nearest thing to craft ales the local Winemark had to offer was Tetley effing bitter. Christ that stuff was muck. And all the bigger supermarkets were offering anyway was a lot of same-y English stuff such as Bishop's nose, Old Thumper's Scrotum, Peculiar Goat's Revenge and, God help us all - Greene King IPA!  Nowadays even the local Winemark has a reasonable selection of locals on the shelves such as Metalman, Bru, Boyne, Foxes Rock, etc. Now, while none of those will send the imagination or taste buds into hyperdrive, it's better than what was there before, and can only improve.

Same with pubs. While the majority of pubs outside of the larger towns still offer a piss poor choice, we are starting to make inroads in the larger towns to the point where I'm almost disappointed if all a bar has on offer is Whitewater, Hilden or even Brewdog. Not that I'm knocking any of those, but when you start getting a taste of how things could be you inevitably become more picky. Rural pubs are, more understandably, slower to adopt to change in their taps, mainly because their tie ins with your Heinos and Diageos of the world are still more cost-effective but also because many people still prefer their Guinness and their Coors Light, and prefer not to have twats like me rabbiting down their earhole about how the macros are awful and they're a fool for not paying half as much again for a pint of something that'll give them stomach cramp. In some cases we probably need more patience and subtlety.

I remember all I ever wished for was for here to be like England, with it's rows of different local taps in every pub you walked into... It must've been one of those cases where you confuse the past with a lovely dream; my last few visits across the water have been a sharp reality check in that the choice can be just as poor over there as it is here. As July and the inevitable rainy season approaches you start to wonder, WERE all summer holidays of old actually sunny all the time?

So yes, there's a lot of meh out there, and macros posing as 'craft'; they're a fact of life.  It's up to the likes of ourselves, and movements like Beoir to at least call them out for what they are, so they either fizzle out, up their game, or in the case of the macros, think of an even more devious way of consolidating their stranglehold on the market. The key point is that there's an increasing range of choice out there now. Granted 80% of it is still subpar but again, think back to how things were 7 or 8 years ago; we're at least stuttering in the right direction.

Okay; I've talked enough shite,

-Barry

It's worth distinguishing between boring beer and bad beer.


If your business model is to brew for people who live within 10 miles of your brewery + have never tasted craft, then go ahead + brew a dull pale ale.
Everyone needs a gateway beer or a session pint.
I'm not the audience for Costello's, Mountain Man, or Wild Bat (to name three) so it doesn't matter if I think they're boring.

But if you have national distribution, it better not be another feckin' 4.2% APA with Cascade, if for no other reason than when there are 6 others like yours, you won't get the shelf space (I've heard this is already happening with retailers.)


Bad beer, there's just  no excuse - I'm looking at you, Pokertree - at any level.

Touche ;). Bad beer can happen in brewers from time to time but consistent bad beer is just being obstinate. We all have experienced bad beers and some brewers make an art form of doing it but others quietly take on board the criticism and work to improve their offerings. I personally don't buy beers from some brewers but as an optimistic person if someone tells me a brewer has upped their game I will return to try again. :)

Completely agree with you, Rich. I'm not advocating the boring or the bland either (which is why you'll never see me at Glastonbury); I'm just saying that in terms of what used to be on offer in terms of craft, or non-macro, we're at least moving in the right direction, albeit in a slow and blandly overcrowded way.

Funny you should mention Pokertree. When the nearest offie to my mum's place in Ballygawley got in some bottles of Pokertree it was a personal Hallelujah moment. Finally something other than the flats of tinned piss. Unfortunately, I'm not down home that often and was the only bugger drinking them, so once they were gone that meant more fridge space for the usual fizzy piss. Supply and demand :(


-Barry

Quote from: SlugTrap on June 28, 2017, 11:04:18 AM
But if you have national distribution, it better not be another feckin' 4.2% APA with Cascade, if for no other reason than when there are 6 others like yours, you won't get the shelf space (I've heard this is already happening with retailers.)

I'd murder a good 4.2 APA with cascade. Shame you can't get one :(

`ThestateofcraftbeermarketinIreland`...yeahitsinarightstate.Educationisthemainkeyingetting,attheveryleast,decentbeerstreamingthroughthepumps.IcalledintooneoftheBelfastcitycentrepubs,IaskedthebarmanifhehadanyIPAinstock...EFFme...helookedatmeasifIwastheanti-Christ...hehadabsolutelynoideawhatIwasaskingfor.Ifthestaff,andonoccasionsthebarowners,aretotallyuneducatedaboutstyles,tastes,coloursetc,whatchancedothedrinkingpublichave?Now,infairness,thereareafewbarsaround(otherthanTimMartinsestablishments)thatarestartingtostockdecentbeers,butnowherenearenoughandthenwe,asdiscerningale/lagerdrinkersarerelegatedtotheultra-commercial,homogenisedScheisse(thatthoughtmakesmeshiver).Howeverthesebarsarejust,asonepostersaid"Jumpingonthebandwagon"andbuyingintothe`Craftalerevolution,aphrasethatgratesonmebytheway,andthenchargeyouanextraquidoracoupleofeuroextrafortheprivilege...justbecauseitsayscraftaleonthelabel.Inmymind..acraftaleiswhatwedo...ifthelikesofGuinnessetc.doit...thenitscommercialandverylittlecraftworkinvolved.But,(asIstepoffmysoapbox)educationfromthemasterbrewerdowntothepointofsaleismostdefinitelytheanswer.Whichthencanbepassedontoconsumersthathopefullyretainthatknowledgeandcanthenmakeaproperinformedchoice.Anotherplusistheriseofeuropeanimmigrants(i`monlytalkingbeerhere),themajorityofwhichhavetheirowntastesinbeers.IknowatleastadozenPoles,lithiuaniansetcthattotallyrefusetodrinkthelikesofHarpandmostespeciallyTennents(Othercrapbeersareavailable).However,it`sgoodtoseethespringingupofmicro-breweriesaroundandthatonlybodeswellforusbeerdrinkers,providingtheyareproducingqualityalesanddon`tgetlazyorworse...indifferent.Anyway...that`smytwobobsworth.

In relation to reviewing a beer again as a group, I wonder if we could revamp the idea but with a slightly different slant. Rather than choose a random beer maybe people could suggest a beer they really like. That way there s at least going to be one person likely to give it a positive review. I wouldn't be in favour of ruining anyone s business or reputation. There s actually a bit of research on how things are presented influence the decisions we make. Useful clip in you re into your ted talks or stuck in negative thinking.

It would be great if there was a brave brewer available from whatever beer we re reviewing to defend clarify etc.


Getting stuck in the negatives (and how to get unstuck) | Alison ... 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7XFLTDQ4

Im going to pipe up here in defense for the smaller brewers.

Holy trinity beers pay peoples salaries & keep breweries going & growing.  One offs & seasonals are the fun stuff.  You need to find the balance between both to keep your trade customers happy with stock on all products & the one & done promiscuous drinker who wants something new every week/month.  This balance is effected by access to equipment & technology.  If you dont make decent beers in the first place (born out of talent, equipment, branding to a certain extent), you wont have repeat customers, thus no capital to invest in more tanks & process improvements to meet demand & better your quality.

There are a lot of owner operated breweries in Ireland.  Small operations without the access to that crucial capital to invest in talent, equipment & technology. Easy get stuck in a rut, get left behind or simply struggle to stay afloat.  There is defo an unwillingness to ask for help & advice on how to make things better. Maybe its a pride thing?  No one likes to see breweries struggling. You are led to believe its a dog eat dog market out there now, but I dont believe thats the case amongst the actual brewers.  A lot of our pro brewers started here on this forum, & havent forgotten that. Most I know would happily share advice on all aspects of process from grain to glass. The thing is, you are rarely asked. 

Look across the pond to UK or USA & see daily hype about Monkish or Cloudwater to name two. Those breweries were multi million quid start ups with talented brewers to back that investment up.  Most of our small breweries here started with leader funding.  Small Irish breweries whose entire startup budget was smaller than the cost of one of those bigger brewers steam boilers.  They are often owned & operated by home brewers. Its a different league & we will get there one day. Until then, do everyone a favour & DM brewers or breweries if you have a flawed beer from them.  Give them the chance to make it better.