Lads, can I draw your attention to this thread, and see what you think?
http://nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,2941.0.html
It appears to be gone? Or the link is dead anyway
It's working for me - looks great!
Yes, it appears it's in the "Members Only section"...which I imagine is not as risque as it sounds!
shane
i'll have a look. anyone know where to start?
matthew
Judging from CAMRA's festivals in the Ulster Hall I think the "token" model is above board. I know a fair few of the guys at the last Ulster Hall (certainly in the cider section) were large scale home brewers
John Hewitt appears to be doing a festival next week...may be worth enquiring with their folk?
I also have a mate at Pubs of Ulster that I can maybe inquire with
sweet chris- i emailed camras festival guy and a lawyer friend. u wann see what you can do your end ?
https://www.gov.uk/licence-finder/sectors (https://www.gov.uk/licence-finder/sectors)
According to this, if we could persuade the Hudson to hold it under their banner, we'd all be good to go...no licenses required for production, just for sales.
Of course getting any proceeds back into the clubs coffers would be the thing. At any rate, looks like the standard licence dodges will suffice
aye, they dont sell nehomebrew at the festival. issue for us, i think, will be that duty hasnt been paid on the beer so we cant sell it. but we will look into it more
i did ask them if we can have a homebrew table at the festival- that's be sweet
I'm almost certain there was an Armagh apple stall at St. Georges market that used to sell apples, apple juice and alcoholic cider. Would it be worth contacting the market? Or is that different if it isn't being consumed?
Duty is to be paid per hectalitre...so if you do less than 100 litres you could well get away with it.
Beyond that, duty is £20 per hectalitre...so not necessarily out of the question
Quote from: Bill_00 on June 25, 2013, 09:01:26 AM
Duty is to be paid per hectalitre...so if you do less than 100 litres you could well get away with it.
Beyond that, duty is £20 per hectalitre...so not necessarily out of the question
lol, not sure we want to try and get away with it. probably important to do things above board- doubt anywhere would let us do it if it wasnt legit anyways
duty depends on more than volume. it's abv per volume
Oh yeah...forgot about that.
Well, just keep the ABV under 2.9% :P :P
Also important to note that cider has rules onto itself regarding licenses to even produce the stuff.
the DoE, Belfast City Council and citizens advice are all probably worth a shot...
You would need to have a manufacturer's licence to sell it, and there are other Food Safety/HACCP concerns involved in producing food. You would need an environmental health officer to certify your home even if you are just selling cakes at a market stall, so I would assume producing beverages falls into the same category. So, no, there is no way we can sell it without having it produced by someone with a manufacturer's licence and paying duty. But that is not an impossible thing. Just drag your fermentation bucket over to the premises of brewery that has a licence! You'd have to pay duty, but you would also be able to charge people for it.
Otherwise, no money can be paid for it, but you might be able to make it a private club event and charge entrance fee for non members?
Seriously though, I would suggest asking to partner with a local brewery, as a one-time arrangement for this special event. The wort does not become beer until fermentation so no legislation applies to it until you pitch the yeast. I'm sure something could be worked out to have a few 5 gallon buckets stored for a week, and the NHC has some members with Distributor's Licences who can transport it to the event, and we'd have to pay the duty - but just think - you could really sell your beer to the public. How grand.
Quote from: BrewCity on June 25, 2013, 05:45:12 PM
Just drag your fermentation bucket over to the premises of brewery that has a licence! You'd have to pay duty, but you would also be able to charge people for it.
The wort does not become beer until fermentation so no legislation applies to it until you pitch the yeast.
afraid that's not true. its not a simple matter of where it is brewed. everything has to be passed for food safety.
legislation applies from the second you want to sell it and it applies to absolutely everything- the water you use, how you clean stuff, how you store stuff, all ingredients etc etc.
we're not looking to charge for any homebrew- that's the whole point. we are looking to charge into an event where homebrew is available for free
Well, okay, okay, maybe you don't want to ~Literally~ "drag" your fermenter in. :P
But the food safety issues would be minimal for doing an experimental brew on site as you'd have traceability on your ingredients, be using council water, and be using the brewery's own cleaning chemicals. But the main hurdle for bringing beer to market is the Revenue :-[
I'm not totally convinced by the food safety worries...surely markets and village fetes all over the country would be shut down because the sellers didn't have their EH certificates?
As I say too, there doesn't appear to be any appropriate manufacturers license on any of the Gov websites, only licenses regarding sale
There are certainly people who get away with selling jam and pies etc. at church fetes, but I think it is still illegal. I suppose at the end of the day the DoE or local council isn't going to expend the time and money to investigate every primary school car boot sale for instances of contravening food safety policies; not too mention the bad publicity it would cause.
But in the instance of a large group of people selling homemade alcohol, I can see them taking it a bit more seriously. Especially up in our neck of the woods.
In another note - I still have no idea what this is about, as the thread seems restricted to full members. Can someone please tell us what this is about?!
Quote from: iain_todd on July 02, 2013, 11:53:58 AM
In another note - I still have no idea what this is about, as the thread seems restricted to full members. Can someone please tell us what this is about?!
It's about the possibility of organising homebrew fests in Dublin, Cork, Galway, and Belfast.
BrewCity, yes my brother filled me in on the details! Sounds cracker and a really good idea. I bet we could get a really good crowd on the go - I would do my best to pull together some contacts (Big List, BBC etc.) and see if we could generate some publicity. I also know a documentary filmmaker or two, so chances are we could get great exposure.
And Shano - sorry, I can't do it in work and always forget when I get home!
Finally got in contact with my mate at Pubs Of Ulster, Joel Neill. He's just sorted out alcohol for the JLS gig at the Titanic slipways of all things, so the ins-and-outs should be relatively fresh in his mind.
Said if someone from the club emails him at ****** he should be able to lend a bit of a hand, or at least give advice
(Mod edit: anyone looking for Joel's email address please PM Bill_00)
sounds good chris- you wanna follow up with him? the issue is charging ppl in to an event that gives free beer. but the people giving the free beer taking some/all of the money.
Yeah, I can contact him directly if you'd like...just thought that it may be beneficial to have a proper club rep contact him. They're more likely to have sensible questions and answers lol
sweet- go for it
us reps really know nothing (but dont tell anyone...)
Haha! Definitely! The rep thing is just a formality ;)
Been doing a bit of reading on this - it seems like it is a really grey area. Is it true that giving someone a pint of homebrew is technically illegal due to it not being for my own consumption?
So, my friend at Pubs of Ulster got back...
It seems licensing wise we're good, but he recommends staying away from tokens etc and just try and arrange a split with the Hudson.
He's not totally certain of the licensing around us actually providing the beer to the Hudson though.
Sadly not... :(
We just need to figure out the transfer of beer to the Hudson I guess