I say "award winning" with quotes around it because it didn't actually win a brewery competition; it won the dessert competition in a food competition at work; lol! (Although maybe I should enter this one because it's the best beer I've ever brewed; I've been trying to avoid BJCP Competitions because they annoy the crap out of me,
There is NOTHING that I would change about this beer; it's the first beer I can say that about.
Stats
OG: 1.065
FG: 1.016
IBUs: 32.1
SRM: 27.13
ABV: 6.44%
Deliciousness: 1000 IDU (International Deliciousness Units)
Recipe
11 lbs - Marris Otter -77.5%
14 oz - Crystal 60 -6.2%
9 oz - Carafa III -4%
12 oz - Pale Chocolate - 5.3%
1 lb - Rolled Oats - 7% (toasted)
1.5 lb - unsulfured, unsweetened shredded coconut
Hops:
25.5 IBUs of bittering hop of your choice
1/2 oz of Citra with 10 min left to boil (-The tropical fruity notes of the late Citra addition add to the tropical flavor of coconut porter; I'm SOO glad I added this part
Process Stuff
Mash high; I limited myself to a 45 minute mash because I recirculation mash which increases the rate of conversion.
Toast the oats & the coconut in the oven; BE CAREFUL with the coconut it will go from 0 to burnt in no time flat; as soon as the coconut starts browning mix it up and put it back in and brown it again; I browned it 3 times consecutatively and ended up with about 50% of it browned.
Add the toasted coconut in a muslin bag into either the secondary or directly in the keg but BEWARE because 0.5 lbs will JUST BARELY fit into a corney keg lid and almost won't fit back out again through the lid.
Leave the coconut in until you like the flavor. I found 4- 5 days and it was really fantastically coconut flavored. The flavor the first 1 -2 days is not that great but don't worry it turns awesome after day 3.
I ended up accidentally forgetting to buy black malt for this one (I am of the school that says that you don't add roasted barley to porters; BJCP and I agree on this point) so I upped the Carafa III and its a pretty good way to go with this porter; the IBUs are right on and the Citra is a perfect accompanyment to the coconut. 7% oats is pretty high but then you get "velvet porter".
Adam
Adam
Aaww that link was really just to a bounty bar wiki,I thought or (taught as in joke Adam might remember) it was a recipe for a beer called bounty bar ::).
I like the Deliciousness Units as a measurement method. Is it marked 1 to 1000 cause if so to have achieved the maximum number of units is some standing. Hat off to ye me Bhoy :)
Quote from: DEMPSEY on December 08, 2013, 12:53:38 PM
I like the Deliciousness Units as a measurement method. Is it marked 1 to 1000 cause if so to have achieved the maximum number of units is some standing. Hat off to ye me Bhoy :)
Exactly. That's why I didn't bother to enter a competition; International Deliciousness Units speak for themselves, I think! ; )
BJCP competitions measure your ability to hit statistical targets in BJCP style guidelines; that's how they work; they're not a measure of beer deliciousness. You brew anything out of the box and you're stuck in one of 2 or 3 styles reserved for non-styles ("Speciality") where completely different and near uncomparable beers are compared against one another.
There are other competitions that CLAIM to be based upon flavor and commercial viability but in reality there is a first round judging against the BJCP guidelines and the winners from that layer are then judged based upon flavor and commercial viability so if you don't brew the guidelines, your only option is the single "Speciality" category that's a catch-all.
I like to "keinheitsgebot" brew where I have at least one non-standard ingredient in a beer which essentially throws all my beers into the Speciality non-category.
Next I have peat smoked oatmeal stout planned, then a mango, citra and amarillo IPA, then a milk chocolate stout brewed with dulche de leche, then a strawberry blond brewed with fresh strawberries and belma hops, then a Pacific NW IPA with piney hops and aged on cedar wood, then a Citrusy IPA with a number of citrusy hops and citrus peel. That's my next 6 beers; all very different and all in the same "Speciality" category in a BJCP competition...
Maybe a year from now I'll actually brew a beer that fits within the guidelines and I can enter it somewhere...
Adam
Quote from: iTube on December 08, 2013, 12:35:26 PM
I you brew good beer you should enter a BJCP comp. It will confirm in writing that it's not just something you think in your head!
No, no it won't (unless you're brewing "to style"); that's my point. Sharing your beer with knowledgeable and experienced beer drinkers / makers WILL do that for you; BJCP comps won't.
-One of my co-workers owns the Black Raven brewery which is arguably the best brewery in Washington right now; they're collecting medals left and right but also "keinheitsgebot" brewing a ton; she tried the beer and provided loads of fantastic feedback on it; BJCP won't provide that feedback only feedback against the style guideline.
I entered ONE BJCP competition last year on my strong cascade late hopped bog oak-smoked oatmeal stout. It was counted down because it was phenolic and phenols don't belong in oatmeal stouts (it's a bog oak-smoked stout; obviously phenols are SUPPOSED to be there; that's why you use wood-smoked malt!), it tasted more alcoholic than the guideline for oatmeal stout, further knocked down; it had a "prounounced" (and awesome!) hop flavor -extra points deducted because hops aren't allowed in stouts other than Imperial Stouts according to BJCP.
No feedback on the flavor, mouthfeel or over-all balance of the beer. Nothing on the execution of the beer or NAILING the what a smoked oatmeal imperial stout could be. This thing was a solid 940 international deliciousness units out of 1000, but 28 out of 50 or something like that according to BJCP because oatmeal stout just isn't allowed to be that awesome.
Execution without creativity -this is what is demanded in BJCP competitions; great execution with creativity won't even get evaluated; creativity subtracts points in the BJCP system. -SUPER ironic considering the fact that BJCP keeps rewarding creativity from commercial brewers by recognizing new creative beers as "new styles", but home brewer creativity must be limited to the "Speciality" category. (Much like the upcoming Olympics in Russia allow protesting as long as it's done within the designated protesting area.)
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-protest-zone-at-2014-sochi-olympics-20131210,0,7900728.story#axzz2nCcFv7rl
Adam
Adam
Last example: Roast Barley character is forbidden in the BJCP porter categories; it's reserved for Stouts. -I wonder how many awesome porter recipes on this board and the Beoir board include roast barley... -Es ist verboten!
BJCP == mandatory "beer (style) purity "guideline"" which is implemented as a restrictive beer purity law; its the rheinheitsgebot mentality adopted to the American need to throw everything into a categorized bucket.
Style guidelines are training wheels; training wheels shouldn't be required in competitions, IMO.
These training wheels are REQUIRED by BJCP because of lax requirements on becoming an entry-level judge; it's the JUDGES that are protected by the style guideline training wheels; not the entrants. (The organization is called "Beer JUDGE Certification Program"; even their name focuses first on judges and judging, NOT the beer itself or the brewers; it's the judges that are catered to and that the organization is for.)
A few style-free competitions judged by high level, experienced judges would go a long way towards improving the system. Said competitions should include a creativity component and also judge against the vision for the beer that is laid out in the entry form and whether that vision was met, and whether the beer has balance / is something that SHOULD exist. A competition that focuses on expanding what beer is by allowing brewers to envision what beer can be, making it happen, and ultimately making a new beer that's good. (I realize organizing and judging such a competition is a lot more work than your typical "identify flaws and judge against the stats" BJCP competition.)
-Actually, I question whether BJCP is even an organization that's capable of hosting such an event; this seems like something that would be better run by someone like the AHA, although I realize that BOTH are run by many of the same people...
</end rant>
Adam
I think you are being a bit harsh on the BJCP method of judging beers.
A lot (maybe the majority) of brewers attempt to brew to styles that they: like / their friends like / or they wish to taste.
The fairest way to subjectively judge a beer (or anything) is with a set of criteria and common standards to mark against. That is why the BJCP scheme is a graduated learning experience for judges. And takes a lot of time and effort.
Where would we be without ANSI, ISO, DIN organistions?
To judge radical brews what have the judges got as a reference standard? NOWT!
For a judge to say "Wow I like this" is hardly modern, repeatedly, scientific judge speak!
In my opinion radical beers will have to judged objectively by judges which is not a great way to do it
Unless of course you have a better way to judge radical beers??
I remeber when I worked in large a large Brit. IT company the amount of training that went into the new form of subjective staff appraisals (read pay rise assements) was HUGH!
In the bad old days if you licked A***e you got a rise - we evolved into subjective performance related pay rises. I assume your global mega corp is still using this approach?
http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2010/10/23/michael-jackson-and-the-invention-of-beer-style/
Adam we miss you. Your posts fill me page with so much.Post more often :)
Quote from: iTube on December 12, 2013, 09:17:50 AM
Quote from: biertourist on December 11, 2013, 09:03:32 PM
I entered ONE BJCP competition last year on my strong cascade late hopped bog oak-smoked oatmeal stout. It was counted down because it was phenolic and phenols don't belong in oatmeal stouts (it's a bog oak-smoked stout; obviously phenols are SUPPOSED to be there; that's why you use wood-smoked malt!), it tasted more alcoholic than the guideline for oatmeal stout, further knocked down; it had a "prounounced" (and awesome!) hop flavor -extra points deducted because hops aren't allowed in stouts other than Imperial Stouts according to BJCP.
You've kind of answered your own criticism. It didn't do well as an oatmeal stout because it's not an oatmeal stout! You should have entered it as a speciality, where I'm sure it would have done a lot better.
I had assumed he hadn't entered it as an oatmeal stout and that he had correctly put it in the specialty category. But in the specialty category if the words oatmeal stout are used to describe it, it will be judged as if it is supposed to be similar to an oatmeal stout.
I did coconut recently, toasted it on a couple of dry frying pans though rather than the oven, could keep an eye on it and stir it up so it got more evenly toasted that way. thanks for this recipe (and have some spare citra ;)) was planning to do another one over christmas and will give this a lash.
Quote from: iTube on December 13, 2013, 03:05:02 PM
I always say about the BJCP anyway that while not perfect it's the only show in town, and rather than give out about its flaws, it's better to join up and try influence change.
This is why my feedback focused upon a solution and a rather simple one at that. I'm not recommending the abolishment of styles or judging to styles, I'm recommending the expansion of the BJCP system to better facilitate creative, style-bending beers. "Extreme" beers are NOT what I'm talking about, dry hopped oatmeal stout and porter that contains roasted barley are most certainly not extreme beers neither would be a wheat malt-based lager; I'm proposing judging with the style guidelines in mind but also a brewer's vision / target for a particular beer and competitions specifically focused on what are currently simply called "Speciality" beers.
The Speciality beer category is broken; you can't judge completely different beers fairly against one another; they should be judged against what they're declared to be while taking the style guidelines into account. The current system penalizes creativity by putting all new creations into a single category; beer as a whole increases in mind share and market share and succeeds as new styles emerge; the BJCP should be SUPPORTING creativity in beer and not stifling it, but we really shouldn't expect them to be the ones to do it as they're a Judge-focused organization, not a brewer or consumer-focused organization.
If "joining up and influencing change" from within existing power structures were the only way, wouldn't Ireland still have the queen on it's money? ;)
Plenty of good things can come from change from without.
The reformation started as an attempt at change within, became change from without that influenced positive change within (Counter-reformation / Catholic reformation); that change within probably wouldn't have happened without the pressure from without.
Adam
Quote from: biertourist on December 26, 2013, 10:43:27 PM
Quote from: iTube on December 13, 2013, 03:05:02 PM
I always say about the BJCP anyway that while not perfect it's the only show in town, and rather than give out about its flaws, it's better to join up and try influence change.
This is why my feedback focused upon a solution and a rather simple one at that. I'm not recommending the abolishment of styles or judging to styles, I'm recommending the expansion of the BJCP system to better facilitate creative, style-bending beers. "Extreme" beers are NOT what I'm talking about, dry hopped oatmeal stout and porter that contains roasted barley are most certainly not extreme beers neither would be a wheat malt-based lager; I'm proposing judging with the style guidelines in mind but also a brewer's vision / target for a particular beer and competitions specifically focused on what are currently simply called "Speciality" beers.
The Speciality beer category is broken; you can't judge completely different beers fairly against one another; they should be judged against what they're declared to be while taking the style guidelines into account. The current system penalizes creativity by putting all new creations into a single category; beer as a whole increases in mind share and market share and succeeds as new styles emerge; the BJCP should be SUPPORTING creativity in beer and not stifling it, but we really shouldn't expect them to be the ones to do it as they're a Judge-focused organization, not a brewer or consumer-focused organization.
If "joining up and influencing change" from within existing power structures were the only way, wouldn't Ireland still have the queen on it's money? ;)
Plenty of good things can come from change from without.
The reformation started as an attempt at change within, became change from without that influenced positive change within (Counter-reformation / Catholic reformation); that change within probably wouldn't have happened without the pressure from without.
Adam
Hmh strong whiff of cordite off that last post :) I think the word that dare not raise its ugly head here is revolution !!! Both the examples really came about after many years of failed policies (resisting urge to be specific here as religion and politics are dangerous subjects at the best of times). Ironic that most people in Ireland would be told don't talk about either of these subjects in a pub and here we are mixing them in with beer ;) I don't care either way about BJCP process but it makes for enlightened reading to hear others opinions on the matter.
Shanna
Ps: Last point lest I get told off for going off topic. Biertourist your viper tower is a savage device :)
Quote from: Shanna on December 27, 2013, 11:00:43 AM
Biertourist your viper tower is a savage device :)
I have no hope of understanding the meaning of this sentence; I've tried and failed. Can someone translate it for this poor Yankee?
Adam
Quote from: iTube on December 27, 2013, 12:08:31 PM
The BJCP on the other hand had nothing to do with politics or religion!
The point was that change from without is often the ONLY option and is very often quite effective at acting as a catalyst for change from within; politics and religion in this case provided examples to backup the assertion.
BJCP style guideline discussions are certainly political in nature; a foreign body defining the rules of beer against the view of tradition and the local population from which the beer style(s) originated in the case of many of the Belgian "styles" for example.
The judging guidelines adherents throw beer into the BJCP defined styles canon and view the world of beer through this "hermeneutical lens"; they engage on beer witch hunts seeking beer flaws; diacetyl, DMS, and lactic infection hides behind every beer with judges rewarded with "street creds" for being able to identify beers with these vile flaws.
The parallels to politics and religion and pretty apparent, IMHO.
Adam
Quote from: biertourist on December 27, 2013, 06:11:12 PM
Quote from: Shanna on December 27, 2013, 11:00:43 AM
Biertourist your viper tower is a savage device :)
I have no hope of understanding the meaning of this sentence; I've tried and failed. Can someone translate it for this poor Yankee?
Adam
Hi Biertourist
I guess you don't remember selling me your viper tower, taps, keg etc. I only recently got around to using it
Savage device means it is a great piece of equipment :) Sorry if I caused confusion.
Shanna
Quote from: Shanna on January 03, 2014, 03:16:01 PM
Quote from: biertourist on December 27, 2013, 06:11:12 PM
Quote from: Shanna on December 27, 2013, 11:00:43 AM
Biertourist your viper tower is a savage device :)
I have no hope of understanding the meaning of this sentence; I've tried and failed. Can someone translate it for this poor Yankee?
Adam
Hi Biertourist
I guess you don't remember selling me your viper tower, taps, keg etc. I only recently got around to using it
Savage device means it is a great piece of equipment :) Sorry if I caused confusion.
Shanna
-Oh! 2 Issues here:
1. I didn't even know it was called a "viper tower"; I called it a "cobra-style tap".
2. It WAS a Savage device; I SO miss it. My new tap tower is a much lower quality tap tower. -Although REALLY expensive I wouldn't buy another tap unless it's a Perlick; a pure stainless flow control Perlick would be amazing but JEEZE, they're expensive!
I just brewed this beer again because it's just too awesome to not brew it again.
I upped the late Citra addition from 0.5 oz (14 grams) to 0.75 oz (21 grams) just to see what happens.
The base beer is pretty much perfect for a chocolate porter or a coconut porter; just age the chocolate version on toasted cocoa nibs and the coconut version on toasted coconut.
Adam
How long do you tend to condition this for before drinking?
Has anyone ever put the coconut in the mash tun with the grains and if so what is the results. :-\
Quote from: irish_goat on January 13, 2014, 08:32:38 AM
How long do you tend to condition this for before drinking?
I use a super fast fermenting American ale yeast strain and both times I've left it primary for 7 days, then I chuck the coconut into the corney keg directly for 3-4 days at ambient temp in my garage (with about 15 lbs of CO2 pressure), then I turn off the CO2, vent the keg, and retrieve the coconut bag with my stainless siphon, then seal it back up and use the 15 lb + shaking "quick carbonation" method. -This beer is so dang tasty I can't stand to wait longer than 3 days condition / carbing time.
This time I mashed lower and ended up with an FG of 1.011, but last time I was at the top-end of the range and it ended up higher; I think I'm going to like it in the higher end of the range. I've got some really high diastatic power 2 row malt as my basemalt this time which I think also helped conversion go faster and is partially responsible for the lower FG.
I'm going to compare the two but I think upping the late citra addition from 0.5 oz to 0.75 was a good way to go on this one.
Adam
Quote from: DEMPSEY on January 13, 2014, 11:17:36 AM
Has anyone ever put the coconut in the mash tun with the grains and if so what is the results. :-\
Lots of recipies call for it; Maui uses coconut in the mash, boil, and during fermentation.
The result is that you get very few fermentables out of it in the mash and very little flavor.
Kona brewing I think originally used it in the mash, too but now that much of it is brewed here in Woodinville, WA @ the Redhook / Anheiser Busch brewery I doubt its brewed the same way.
I've got a co-worker here that has had Kona's fresh at the brewery after going on the brewery tour and he says that mine tastes way better with a better coconut flavor. Just use unsulfured, unsweetened flaked coconut and toast it (in the microwave on the stove top constantly stirred, or in a convection oven while watching closely and add it to the secondary or directly to the keg). The flavor isn't great after 24 hours, starts getting good at day 2 and by day 3 and 4 it's awesome.
The late citra really enhances it, too but I'm sure a couple of tropical NZ varieties could do the same thing.
Adam
I found the same thing with Chocolate additions - you want to start with awesome quality ingredients (raw cocoa nibs), toast them without burning to bring out the oils, and then add them as late as possible to bring out the flavor.
-Because you're not wasting the ingredients in the mash or boil, you can use less to get more flavor and therefore can afford to buy better ingredients.
I'm doing a split batch milk chocolate stout with home made dulche de leche (real milk) as my next dark beer; the other half of the batch will become Indian Chai Latte Stout. (I went to a specialist spice importer and had them make me an indian chai tea (yes a redundant title) spice blend which I'm going to add in the secondary of the dulche de leche milk stout without the cocoa nibs. -I'm not going to add any espresso this time, but I might pull a single 2 liter growler of it and add some espresso to see what it would be like with it.
I really love making beer! -All I'm doing now is alternating between some sort of experimental Pale Ale and then an experimental Porter or Stout; I think I could keep doing this for a long time. So far my best porter and stout experiments are ending up in the dessert beer category, though.
(A Black Forest Cake Stout is a future possibility, too; just age my coconut porter recipe with coconut, coconibs, and add some almond extract to provide a hint of marschino cherry flavor.)
Adam
Read this blog post last night, and thought it belonged in this thread.
http://perfectpint.blogspot.ie/2011/10/beer-rant-english-ales.html
Quote from: mr happy on January 17, 2014, 12:10:45 AM
Read this blog post last night, and thought it belonged in this thread.
http://perfectpint.blogspot.ie/2011/10/beer-rant-english-ales.html
Yup; don't forget to see the comments from Ron Pattinson on the "Scottish styles" and lack of Czech beer styles in the BJCP guidelines.
Adam
I'm familiar with Ron's ouevre. I some times think the BJCP are like the Académie française of beer.
BTW did you try out the U Fleku Tmavy Lezhak recipe? I've a fridge again (yay!) so I'll be doing one up as soon as I get a chance.
Quote from: mr happy on February 01, 2014, 02:43:25 AM
BTW did you try out the U Fleku Tmavy Lezhak recipe? I've a fridge again (yay!) so I'll be doing one up as soon as I get a chance.
I did NOT get to try it. I did make a black lager which was delicious, but it was a simple single infusion mash with an easy-going German lager strain instead.
-I wanted to do a LOT of back-to-back lagers but it just takes soo long and I only have a single fridge for fermentation, lagering, and serving and I wanted to actually be able to DRINK my beer so I switched back to porters and pale ales for a while again.
Adam
I did it around Christmas 2012. I skipped the decoction but it was still really nice. (Better than the Czech pils I did before it with a double decoction). I'd definitely recommend it, my wife's still asking when I'll brew it again. It also seemed to be a forgiving recipe for WLP800. It was the last lager I did though, as I've not had refrigeration since. Hopefully sometime soon.
I've now brewed this 4 times (10 gallon batch now) and I keep slowly tweaking it.
I switched back to MO as the basemalt as the mouthfeel and higher finishing gravity I think made a better version of this beer.
I got a stuck mash this time between the MO and the oats... (Rice hulls recommended)
I also swapped the Carafa III for Carafa II and I think that was a mistake as there's just not enough roast flavor to balance it out. I'm going to switch back to Carafa III and add a bit of a highly roasted malt next time.
I upped my Citra quantity even further this weekend but this was the first brew in my new whirlpool kettle and it stayed at high temps too long -I ended up getting more IBUs than I wanted and I think less Citra flavor. I'm going to have to wait to add the Citra addition in the whirlpool now.
I also switched to SAFAle-04 because I think English esters will help this beer out. -I'll report back on the results of the changes but its all small tweaks from here out. The basis for the recipe and especially the coconut handling portion of the recipe are hard to improve on.
Adam
It was your recipe I made the last time I did this (minus the citra)... was my 3rd attempt at it and 3rd recipe I've tried (1st was the HBC porter kit, 2nd was one off electric brewery/HBT I think) had the last bottle of it a week or so ago.. about 3/4 months since bottling. I have to say it was the best so far.
I've also been trying different varieties of toasted coconut. 1st time was dessicated coconut from lidl, which I found to be great. Shamrock brand was next, but wasn't nearly as flavoursome. 3rd attempt was Natco brand found in the Asian supermarkets. The strange thing about the last one (natco brand) was my FG jumped from 1.012 to 1.020 after I added it! It may have been that I toasted this one a lot more than previous attempts and maybe in the browning of the coconut there's saccharification occurring. I was concerned about bottle bombs and over carbination but thankfully this never transpired.
I know before I complained that the coconut flavour dissipates after about a month, not so with this batch! It was beautifully mellow bounty bar tasting, your recipe really complimented the coconut flavour.
I think the key might be in the method of toasting of the coconut rather than the brand however. I do it on the hob to keep an eye on it. I used 800g in a 22l batch, 7 or 8 days 'dry hopping'. I used a thin bottomed wok for the last batch on a high heat with lots of stirring to evenly brown it. On a lower heat it or in the oven it would brown in layers and it's difficult to 'flip' it to just toast the remaining white parts. I'm going to try the same method but with the lidl brand (also the cheapest source per g) and see how it turns out!
edit: I think I remember trying the oven method with the shamrock so that might explain the difference there...
edit 2: it also occurred to be that I assumed the Natco brand/batch 3 was unsweetened dessicated coconut. I will have a look at the bag next time in the Asian shop to confirm ;)
Quote from: ferg on November 07, 2014, 01:49:18 PM
It was your recipe I made the last time I did this (minus the citra)... was my 3rd attempt at it and 3rd recipe I've tried (1st was the HBC porter kit, 2nd was one off electric brewery/HBT I think) had the last bottle of it a week or so ago.. about 3/4 months since bottling. I have to say it was the best so far.
I've also been trying different varieties of toasted coconut. 1st time was dessicated coconut from lidl, which I found to be great. Shamrock brand was next, but wasn't nearly as flavoursome. 3rd attempt was Natco brand found in the Asian supermarkets. The strange thing about the last one (natco brand) was my FG jumped from 1.012 to 1.020 after I added it! It may have been that I toasted this one a lot more than previous attempts and maybe in the browning of the coconut there's saccharification occurring. I was concerned about bottle bombs and over carbination but thankfully this never transpired.
I know before I complained that the coconut flavour dissipates after about a month, not so with this batch! It was beautifully mellow bounty bar tasting, your recipe really complimented the coconut flavour.
I think the key might be in the method of toasting of the coconut rather than the brand however. I do it on the hob to keep an eye on it. I used 800g in a 22l batch, 7 or 8 days 'dry hopping'. I used a thin bottomed wok for the last batch on a high heat with lots of stirring to evenly brown it. On a lower heat it or in the oven it would brown in layers and it's difficult to 'flip' it to just toast the remaining white parts. I'm going to try the same method but with the lidl brand (also the cheapest source per g) and see how it turns out!
edit: I think I remember trying the oven method with the shamrock so that might explain the difference there...
edit 2: it also occurred to be that I assumed the Natco brand/batch 3 was unsweetened dessicated coconut. I will have a look at the bag next time in the Asian shop to confirm ;)
-On the increased OG using certain coconuts. Some dessicated coconut includes added sugar and some includes added sulfites so that it stores better. You want to avoid both of these things, which is difficult.
I still haven't found the "perfect" method of getting the coconut evenly browned. I use a thin layer on a cookie sheet in a convection oven as the constant air movement helps it to brown more evently. I then mix up the coconut and keep toasting but as it goes from browning to burning VERY quickly I don't push my luck.
Adam
Quote from: biertourist on November 07, 2014, 09:58:18 PM
-On the increased OG using certain coconuts. Some dessicated coconut includes added sugar and some includes added sulfites so that it stores better. You want to avoid both of these things, which is difficult.
Which coconut did you get that was unsweetened and unsulfered? I've had a look around but can't find any that specifically state that on the packet?
Seen coconuts in aldi today, a grater and you couldn't get it purer
Quote from: Gugs44 on November 09, 2014, 08:04:55 PM
Seen coconuts in aldi today, a grater and you couldn't get it purer
Think of me poor skinned knuckles on the grater sure!
Fair point
Quote from: cruiscinlan on November 09, 2014, 07:38:34 PM
Quote from: biertourist on November 07, 2014, 09:58:18 PM
-On the increased OG using certain coconuts. Some dessicated coconut includes added sugar and some includes added sulfites so that it stores better. You want to avoid both of these things, which is difficult.
Which coconut did you get that was unsweetened and unsulfered? I've had a look around but can't find any that specifically state that on the packet?
Whole Foods, I'm afraid. (US only) It's $3/ lb so it cost me $10 just for the coconut for a 10 gallon batch.
Adam
Lidl, Shamrock and Natco brands have all given me more than acceptable coconut flavour that in no way affected the beer except for that FG jump.. the first few bottles did taste too sweet but that's cause they were too young.. it significantly mellowed later on.
Quote from: mr hoppy on February 01, 2014, 02:43:25 AM
BTW did you try out the U Fleku Tmavy Lezhak recipe? I've a fridge again (yay!) so I'll be doing one up as soon as I get a chance.
Hi, have you a link for the recipe? thanks..
I didn't follow it 100% but it still turned out great. Lovely beer.
http://old.brewersassociation.org/pages/business-tools/publications/the-new-brewer/online-extras/show?title=style-spotlight-bohemian-dunkel
There's a write up of a brewery visit as well. Weird thing is I only came across it because one of the brewers at Meantime in London linked it in a comment on Martin Cornell's Zythophile blog.
I brewed another 10 gallons of this, this time trying to tweak which roast malts I used and the original recipe posted on pg1 here is still the best except the late citra addition does add something. My original grist is still the best and the use of an American Ale strain turned out far better than when I switched to an English Strain, too. (Something about this recipe made the English esters stand out as nail polish remover-like -no fermentation or temp or nutrition issues, just the English Esters + Coconut is a weird combo that I didnt like.)
I've tried tweaking about everything that can be tweaked and the original recipe, but with the small late hop citra addition is now what I'll use for this beer every time. I'm convinced that this beer can not be improved upon. Done!
Adam
Hi Adam,
In your original post the recipe states 1.5 lbs of coconut but in the text you state that .5 kgs will barely fit into the cornie.
Which is correct?
QuoteAdd the toasted coconut in a muslin bag into either the secondary or directly in the keg but BEWARE because 0.5 lbs will JUST BARELY fit into a corney keg lid and almost won't fit back out again through the lid.
1.5 lbs into secondary (and then bottle)
or
0.5 lbs into keg (if kegging)
that's how I take it.
Quote from: Will_D on December 09, 2014, 11:10:02 AM
Hi Adam,
In your original post the recipe states 1.5 lbs of coconut but in the text you state that .5 kgs will barely fit into the cornie.
Which is correct?
Great question; I'll edit.
-I only add coconut in the keg and 1 lb / 0.5 kg is all that will fit and reliably come back out. My original plan was to use 1.5 lbs but 1.5 lbs just wouldn't fit into the corney keg opening.
If you add the coconut at room temp (say 15-20C) then 5 days seems about right on the coconut; if at 5-10C I wait 8-9 days on the coconut.
Adam
Thanks for the recipe. I think I'll try this one out
What's your mashing temperature?
Tried a variation of this recipe a few weeks ago. Dry hopped it with 750 gr of roasted coconut (approximately for 12minutes) for six days. Force carbed for 10 minutes, then left @8C for three days on Co2. Tried last night on Nitro and first impressions were awful as all I could smell & taste was coconut. Had an awful few minutes thinking what would I do with 18+ litres of coconut porter. Thankfully the smell subsided to be replaced by a much subtler arroma & flavour. Had two pints of it last night & was really nice. Glad I tried it & would recommend it. Might a bit of extra black malt to offset the sweetness of the coconut & the high fg of 1.020 I got.
Shanna
Or, not as much cocunut? :) I was going to do this one next, but I'm thinking of the nogne porter instead. That said, this is very tempting...
Quote from: Shanna on December 25, 2014, 01:09:20 PM
Tried a variation of this recipe a few weeks ago. Dry hopped it with 750 gr of roasted coconut (approximately for 12minutes) for six days. Force carbed for 10 minutes, then left @8C for three days on Co2. Tried last night on Nitro and first impressions were awful as all I could smell & taste was coconut. Had an awful few minutes thinking what would I do with 18+ litres of coconut porter. Thankfully the smell subsided to be replaced by a much subtler arroma & flavour. Had two pints of it last night & was really nice. Glad I tried it & would recommend it. Might a bit of extra black malt to offset the sweetness of the coconut & the high fg of 1.020 I got.
Shanna
Yes it's quite odd on days 1-3 and then around 5 fully tastes like coconut but intense. Another week after removing the coconut it all mellows out and gets nice and the way it should be.
Adam
Hi Adam,
I tried this over the weekend, and I overshot the OG - hit 1.070 instead of 1.065.
What is the volume that the original recipe is based on?
I went for 21 liter into the fermenter, but suspect it to be based on 23l maybe?
Quote from: RedWino on February 09, 2015, 12:41:33 PM
Hi Adam,
I tried this over the weekend, and I overshot the OG - hit 1.070 instead of 1.065.
What is the volume that the original recipe is based on?
I went for 21 liter into the fermenter, but suspect it to be based on 23l maybe?
I would'nt worry about 5 points as any recipe is based on a certain level of efficiency e.g. 70% and you have had a bit better extract efficiency :).
I'm not worried, just curious is all 8)
I did the recipe as full mash BIAB, but has to guesstimate the water volumes.
Yep very close to 23 liters out of the kettle.
The recipe specified 7 gallons (26.5L) pre boil going into the kettle and 6 gallons (22.72L) as the final volume in the kettle. I leave a lot of junk behind in the kettle so I have some pretty significant losses but I'm really going for high wort quality with low trub levels. -Some day if I get a trub filter I'll switch my process so it's more efficient.
Adam
Makes sense, cheers. :)
I did my own version of this with 500g of coconut left loose in the fermentor. Although it smelled nice, once bottled I could get no hint of coconut off it at all, I gave a bottle to DCBrewing who could taste it so I'm mystified, does my palate have a coconut-shaped blindspot?
I think coconut just doesnt come out very strong as a flavor in general but your stout was way more coconutty than any other so called coconut berrs ive had before. I had kinnegars last night and there wasnt nearly as much coconut as yours.
Quote from: DCBrewing on February 20, 2015, 08:09:26 AM
I think coconut just doesnt come out very strong as a flavor in general but your stout was way more coconutty than any other so called coconut berrs ive had before. I had kinnegars last night and there wasnt nearly as much coconut as yours.
It's not about the size of the coconut addition; it's about how you use it. -Couldn't resist.
The key is to remember that coconut FLAVOR comes from coconut OIL; think about "coconut utilization" -the amount of coconut flavor you get for the amount of coconut that you buy -as long as you think about the quantity and process from this perspective you can get intense coconut flavor without breaking the bank.
Some people just blindly follow the process that Maui brewing uses (add coconut in the mash, add it in the boil, add it in fermentation tanks) without thinking about the "coconut utilization".
Toasting brings out the oils that will just hugely ramp up the amount of coconut flavor that you get (and then you get nice toasted flavors, too) most of the oils are going to be driven off/ not end up in the final beer if you add them before secondary fermentation. The rate of extraction also varies based upon temperature and the surface area in contact between the coconut and the beer -so add coconut to secondary before chilling to speed up extraction.
Or you can go insane and add 5 - 7 lbs for a 5 gallon batch because you blindly follow a commercial brewer's process like this guy: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/getting-big-coconut-flavor-492652/index5.html (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/getting-big-coconut-flavor-492652/index5.html) (I DID try to steer him correctly but he filled half of his fermenter with raw coconut instead...)
Adam
Quote from: DCBrewing on February 20, 2015, 08:09:26 AM
I think coconut just doesnt come out very strong as a flavor in general but your stout was way more coconutty than any other so called coconut berrs ive had before. I had kinnegars last night and there wasnt nearly as much coconut as yours.
Blueberry- now THERE'S a flavor that doesn't come out very strong. I had a blueberry stout from Dark Horse that was one of the most delicious things I've ever put into my face at the time; I have NO IDEA how they managed to get so much blueberry flavor into a stout but I'm pretty certain it wasn't just whole blueberries. It wasn't an artificial taste either. If I could make that beer, I would be a happy, happy man.
Adam
Oh yea: Update on this beer: There are some article online on how to quickly toast coconut in a microwave: DO NOT do this.
Unless you have a very small amount of coconut or it's spread very thin the inside of the big mound of coconut will start burning while the outside looks relatively untoasted. The heat inside ends up MUCH hotter than the outside and you end up with nasty burnt popcorn smelling / tasting coconut (my most recent batch finishes phenolicy from the tiny bit of burnt coconut that ended up in it).
Adam
made the base beer again for this on Saturday. gonna mix it up this time with some vanilla pods and possibly some lactose (credit to Mike Tonsimere for the inspiration :P), heading for more a sweet stout this time. I mashed high (69) and finished with 1.070 wort so may not need it. I'm debating whether or not to keg this batch and add the coconut to the corny or bottle as usual...
I have to agree microwaves have little place in making beer, let alone food!
I like my microwave for my priming sugar :)
600g oven toasted coconut and 3 tablespoons of neilsen massey vanilla extract went in this time.. finished at 1.018 this time, so was sweet enough to not add lactose which I was planning too! Vanilla-coconut stout here we come!