Updating
The words wine and lambic mean nothing to me, but if it's room you're after I might be able to help. What kind of size are we talking?
Hey Garry,
Thanks for the offer, appreciated.
Its about the size of the last barrel, 225l.
Its going to be immovable for a period, I'm not sure how long, I will need to consult with the house expert.
I'll cover the barrel and sort logistics if you're happy with this.
Do you need to run it by The Management? ;)
Looking at another thread, it seems this might become a long term fixture.
As in a few years.
Let me know if this is workable, I'll understand if not.
Thanks
My garage is MANzone so no need to consult with management. I still don't know what lambic means, maybe mr happy could give me a few lessons? My garage is NOT insulated, so the temps will fluctuate a good bit during the year. If this isn't a problem, count me in :)
I'll see about bring a 'sample' if you are at the gig on Saturday 7th
Sounds really interesting - but don't underestimate the commitment! Even without a 225l (!) barrel brewing a real lambic is pretty hardcore and something I'd have looked at being a longer term ambition:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/brewing-sour-beer-at-home.html
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/08/lambic-3-turbid-mash.html
Quote from: mr happy on November 27, 2013, 10:10:03 PM
Sounds really interesting - but don't underestimate the commitment! Even without a 225l (!) barrel brewing a real lambic is pretty hardcore and something I'd have looked at being a longer term ambition:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/brewing-sour-beer-at-home.html
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/08/lambic-3-turbid-mash.html
You're a bad influence on me JRM! I think I'll need to speak to Mr.H about this. I'm still open minded though.
I'm not sure if I'll make the meet on the 7th yet. Mrs Garry is out that night so it's my responsibility to find a babysitter >:( I'll do my best. Are Mrs RM and Mrs Happy going? I might be able to bribe her into a triple date??
Quote from: Garry on November 28, 2013, 12:07:10 AM
Quote from: mr happy on November 27, 2013, 10:10:03 PM
Sounds really interesting - but don't underestimate the commitment! Even without a 225l (!) barrel brewing a real lambic is pretty hardcore and something I'd have looked at being a longer term ambition:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/brewing-sour-beer-at-home.html
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/08/lambic-3-turbid-mash.html
You're a bad influence on me JRM! I think I'll need to speak to Mr.H about this. I'm still open minded though.
I'm not sure if I'll make the meet on the 7th yet. Mrs Garry is out that night so it's my responsibility to find a babysitter >:( I'll do my best. Are Mrs RM and Mrs Happy going? I might be able to bribe her into a triple date??
I know that Sam black is bringing his wife, and there should be plenty of other women there, including my own, so they can get together and bitch about us, and bond around that!
I was planning staying with the Mistress, Sheila up on Wellington Road.
However, seeing as its a Christmas party, a Birthday AND a Rebel meetup all rolled into one, I think I'll bring her.
We have a young lad who needs to earn his keep that can mind the smallies.
This is going to be great craic!
don't know anything about lambics either, but would be interested to find out more. Is there any appetite to fill the existing barrel again, once it gets emptied of black IPA? Not sure it would be worth having two barrels on the go, so maybe the whiskey one becomes a smoker in Kanturk. Also, primarily being a hophead, not sure how many non hoppy projects I would like to be involved in.
As I understand the beer needs to be barreled for quite some time, i.e. a year or more.
From the quick read of the process, the beer bit is handy enough.
The magic is the combination of yeasts that are used and the treatment over time in the barrel.
Andrew would be the best person to ask about using the First barrel.
Maybe Sam can host a second Barrel and we can compare notes and/or blend.
The Barrels El Tubo (NOT that fecker Il Tubo) are from Red and White wine.
Again I defer to Andrew expertise in all things Belgian and wonderfully Sour. O0
To be honest I'd be thinking let's do something a bit more accessible like a Flemish Red (like Rodenbach which was on sale at the FW Oktoberfest) or a Flemish Pale like Petrus Aged Pale with the existing barrel (six month turn around and I've some recipes we could work from) first, to dip our toes into the whole crazy sour barrel gig and then we can do a lambic after if people like the Flemish Red.
Lambic is a huge commitment: it involves unorthodox mashing methods (worse than decoction mashing) and you really need 18 - 36 months to make anything halfway decent. Also, given the incredibly long timescale I'm not sure it's going to be an issue if we're running 6 months behind other clubs.
Folks in the US often use whiskey barrels for sours (including lambics) and I think 160 litres is probably more manageable than 225 (which is a seriously big volume - especially without Billy's big boiler).
Look at how the other groups did their small batches and combined them, this worked very well for them.
There's no reason why this would not work.
As for the brew, maybe some in between complexity would make more sense to ease the learning curve.
Flemish red would be well suited to the small batch and then combine approach because the funky stuff only comes into play in the secondary (which could be done in the barrel).
So would Billys Barrel be good for this? We need to see what stage Sam is at with it.
I thought that barrell had more tourdates than bill clinton before eventually going to a grave of smoking bacon or something...
Like Garry, I also have space for a longterm fixture but it would be in no way climate controlled. It would be shoved into the corner of a shed and covered in a tarp.
Quote from: LordEoin on November 29, 2013, 01:12:47 AM
I thought that barrell had more rourdates than bill clinton before eventually going to a grave of smoking bacon or something...
Like Garry, I also have space for a longterm fixture but it would be in no way climate controlled. It would be shoved into the corner of a shed and covered in a tarp.
I don't think smoking bacon will actually be the complete death of it, as think he actually means to make the smoker out of the barrel, rather than break it up and smoke the chips. Don't think I would be happy to see it just broken up for chips.
Would Billy's barrel be suitable - I'd imagine it would be. The whiskey flavour should be going now and while oak flavour isn't out of place in sours the main reason for using barrels is that they let a small amount of oxygen in over a long period of time because they are made of wood rather than non-porous glass or highly porous HDPE.
Is temperature control required - I'd say temp control is not a big deal at all.
What I'm most concerned about - both for this idea or for the lambic is how we get a pitchable quantity of sour "yeast" culture. The recommended approach is to buy a pitchable quantity. This is because bacteria grows faster than yeast so that stepping a culture up results in the wrong balance of bugs and yeast.
Are we talking about foimenting in the Barrel or aging in the barrel?
If primary is taking place in individual fermenters, then each participating brewer is going to have to put aside a fermenter.
I have just been handed 6 old fermenters so can ferment multiple batches, but limited to 28L boils for the mo.
Secondary in barrel. I think it would be possible to formulate the recipe to do a clean ferment in the primary and sour in the secondary. This is the way a lot of flemish browns and Orval are done.
Just wondering if it's going to taste smokey if the barrel's been used as a smoker?
That would be an interesting twist.
Don't even think about it. At 200L there will be no twists!
Flanders red.
If the barrel's been used as a smoker it is what it is.
If it's the barrel from the RIS, Let's see what Sam is doing with it.
If it had been smoked we can get another one to keep it clean unless we want a Smokey beer.
Hmm, looks like making a smoker out of a barrel involves cutting doors into it which sounds fairly irreversible. What does anyone think?
http://www.ehow.com/way_5857920_homemade-whiskey-barrel-smoker.html
QuoteWood barrels in particular provide a healthy sanctuary for brettanomyces, acetobacter and lactic cultures. The coarse texture of the wood provides good living space. Also, the wood sugar cellubiose is a food for brettanomyces. As such, any life that makes a home in your barrel may well survive any cleaning efforts on your part. Use of a barrel previously used by a distiller gives you the best neutral start. Barrels previously used for wine are more likely to contain some microorganisms, as well as flavor that will become part of your beer.
From here
http://www.thebeveragepeople.com/pdf/webbeerpdf/BrewingWithBarrels.pdf
Interesting piece on barrels generally
http://morebeer.com/public/pdf/wbarrel.pdf
Powerpoint presentation from a (real) expert on sour beers (not specifically Flemish Red) but a good introduction generally:
www.babblebelt.com/newboard/brew.../RRsour_beer_presentation.ppt
Hasn't been used for a smoker yet, and that will only happen when we are finished with it. Once the black ipa comes out of it, will come back to me, so options open, but needs to be used for something interesting, if I am going to not be getting bacon from it.
When will Sam be flushing the barrel?
We will need to be ready for this. We can't leave out sit idle for too long between batches.
Ok, would strongly recommend people try to get a taste of Rodenbach, Rodenbach Grand Cru, Duchesse de Bourgogne or at least an Oud Bruin like Liefmanns or Bacchus before commiting to this - generally some of these beers are available in the Abbott (some relatively cheaply).
In terms of recipes:
Graham Wheeler, Rodenbach Grand Cru - the good thing about this recipe is it's got pale malt as the base:
25 litres
Pale malt 4950g
Flaked maize 1450g
Caramunich 700g
Chocolate (1000 SRM) 100g
OG: 1064
16 IBU from 35 g of Goldings 5.3% AA at 90 minutes. This could be any noble hop really and the IBUs could be up to 25 if preferred.
Mash - recommends a step mash but this isn't necessary for flaked maize so a single infusion at 65 - 67 should be an ok compromise for everyone. (Edit: I see here (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/mash-schedule-flanders-red-106841/)that Jeff Sparrow who wrote Wild Brews suggests a 70 degree single infusion as an alternative, so that's probably a good idea).
Yeast - I'd say S-33 in primary and secondary (great yeast for malt flavours) but Notty or US-05 would be ok, and lots of Wyeast 3763 ROESELARE blend in the tertiary (barrel) - I assume Homebrewwest would be able to get it in specially from Brouwland - can ask.
Alternatively we could do something with Vienna or Munich malt as the base (the Wild Brews recipes are like this but I don't have it to hand right now) lighter Weyermanns Cara malts and not Chocolate - but I'd imagine folks have plenty of pale malt so the GW recipe is probably better that way although some Special B might be nice as well.
Jamil's recipe - not too keen, doesn't use pale malt or flaked maize:
http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/jamils-flanders-red-ale
The second link in reply 26 has some interesting information on how to manage the barrel between fills.
There might be an obvious answer to this that I'm just missing, but...
Who's going to drink 225liters of Lambic? That's about 18 Slabs.
Why not just stick with the current barrell, bang on a crowd pleasing session beer and have a party?
Sam's IPA should have freshened up the barrel a bit if anything.
Quote from: iTube on November 30, 2013, 03:42:52 PM
*Flanders red is theoretically a better match but having tasted Rodenbach it's going to be an oud bruin.
Heresy!
@Lord Eoin - barrels aren't really ideal for session strength beers because even when they are very thoroughly cleaned they will harbour bugs that will screw up a party beer - brett can penetrate quite a distance into wood. That's why they tend to get used for dark stronger brews (which can withstand the bugs and are ideal for aging) or sours to which bugs make a positive contribution.
Having said that, whatever goes in the barrel has to work for everyone involved.
Anyone tried the Oaked Arrogant Bastard from Bradleys?
Have the recipe. Might be a good crowd pleaser to keep the barrel tipping over.
have you tried the recipe? there's a lot of mutton dressed as lamb in the online recipe world.
How about we get all the suggestions together, then put it to a poll?Personally, I'd prefer to keep the current barrel in circulation for as long as is viable, spreading its seed across cork (like so many of us have over the years) leaving a legacy until there inevitably comes a time when it just needs to be shot and burned.
So far the suggestions are: (and excuse me if i missed any)
- Rodenbach (mr happy)
- some sort of easy drinking party beer(lordeoin)
- Oaked Arrogant Bastard(johnrm)
Any more suggestions?
Bacon!
Quote from: LordEoin on December 20, 2013, 10:16:32 PM
have you tried the recipe? there's a lot of mutton dressed as lamb in the online recipe world.
How about we get all the suggestions together, then put it to a poll?
Personally, I'd prefer to keep the current barrel in circulation for as long as is viable, spreading its seed across cork (like so many of us have over the years) leaving a legacy until there inevitably comes a time when it just needs to be shot and burned.
So far the suggestions are: (and excuse me if i missed any)
- Rodenbach (mr happy)
- some sort of easy drinking party beer(lordeoin)
- Oaked Arrogant Bastard(johnrm)
Any more suggestions?
Erm, I suggested the Arrogant Bastard as well, Ferro ferk's sake! Reason being I think it's as close to "some sort of easy drinking party beer" as you can do in a barrel.
I got the recipe from Mitch Steele's IPA book. Mitch is the head brewer at Stone so I'd say he knows what their recipes are! Sorry if that comes off a bit stroppy, I'm on to the Bink Tripel now. :)
For me, the endgame is a sour, but like eoin says lets keep it going one way or the other!
Traquair House Jacobite Ale (also available in Bradleys!) is another awesome, inspirational and generally appealing oak barrel aged ale. (Less hoppy than Arrogant Bastard though).
One last (marginally insane) suggestion:
Pilsener Urquell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhI06uGzQzM
The reasons it's marginally insane is
1 - we'd have to coat the inside of the barrel with pine sap
2 - and wrap the barrel in metal tubing that can carry glycol so that it can be lagered outside a fridge:
http://byo.com/brown-ale/item/1877-build-your-own-glycol-fermenter
Anyone else got any ideas?
The world is a poorer place without Michael!
Regards the questions:
The oak lager barrels (not shown in Vid and more used in Pilsn than Bud..) are lined with pitch IIRC as pine sap would certainly flavour the lagers!
If you want to wrap a cask in a cooling jackect just use regular PVC or PP Beer/gas line. If you can source a pub beer chiller with the "Python - Glycol" option then thats all you need else you need a freezer with another coil of pipe inside it and a pump. Fill the with the system with Anti freeze and Bob never touched the Fanny of yer Aunty!
If you don't like glycol use brine but check your pump spec.
$2000 he reckoned on the build!! Obviously no Welsh genes there BaaaHaa!
You're right Will - it's pitch, though I thought the pitch in Plzen was made from pine sap.
If there's no barrels in part 1 they are in part 2 or 3.
I must re-read your suggestion about brine in the morning, sounds very interesting.
Wakey wakey.
Barrel condition and availability TBC
Style and Recipe TBC.
Difficult to pick out something that you want oak and poss Whiskey in other than a stout.
I like Ambers.
Fat Tyre clone?...
http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/192/607/
Need 10 x 23l batches to fill 225l barrel
1. johnrm
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. johnrm (2nd batch if short bodies)
I'd be hoping that most of the whiskey is gone out of the barrel at this point, after the black IPA, and it will probably have water in it for a while after that. I'd be up for refilling again, but what about something funky like one of Mr Happy's Gose's or something with a bit of brett in it, along the lines of Orval, as really not into the standard Belgium beers?
This is probably a boring suggestion but what about an old English October beer? It could be just a SM&SH of ale malt and maybe EKG? High OG obviously and dry hop in the barrel for a year or two? We wouldn't be worried about too much whiskey in the beer since this is probably gone now.
These beers would traditionally have been brewed to celebrate the arrival of a newborn. I can count 5 rebel babys born in the last 12 months. All boys if I remember correctly? There may be more?
Let it age for 18 years, imagine tasting it in 2032 with our sons :P
Sounds like an interesting one alright. Lets get a few more suggestions, and then put it to a vote.
Fat tyre is a Belgian of sorts; inspired by a bicycle trip around Belgium at least.
Very tasty too...
225l of something that mr_happy likes is going to make mr_happy, um, happy.
We need to track the barrel down to start.
Wheres that Black fella?
I've had fat tyre before, and thought it was only okay, but i'm just not very into the regular belgiums. Might be persuaded on the strong English ale though. The barrel has BIPA in it, but not for much longer, so it will available soon enough.
I'd rather get the barrel with the BIPA still in it :P
I was thinking the same thing.
I don't think Sam would be on for that though!
Talking to Sam a while ago.
Right now its 3/4 full with Black IPA.
This will empty over the next 2 weeks.
(Heads up - Look forward to a few casks of this yumminess!)
Sam will keep it wet and add campden until we pick it up.
Garry, have you still got space for this?
Lets get hands up and see who's in.
I suggest we brew ASAP.
Once fermentated, rack to secondary to minimise trub rising in transit.
Get the Barrel and Contributors to Garrys and fill.
Right now we need to...
Decide a recipe.
Get ingredients.
Brew.
Sam says he is in for 23L
I'll populate the list with who I believe is in at this point seeing as ye eejits all have opinions but don't seem to commit ::)
1. johnrm
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara (Just talking to him)
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7.
8.
9.
10. johnrm (2nd batch if short bodies)
Is there another Sam that I am not aware of?
You're sharp tonight Billy!
Edited.
I have the space. I just need to tidy the garage. This would be the "kick in the hole" I need.
Good man Garry!
The bottom of the barrel will ideally need to be Corney height.
Have you some Cavity Blocks you can sit it on?
For the fill, a chair on a table should give us adequate height.
Autosyphon in, Autosyphon out, none of that messing with pumps.
1. johnrm
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara (Just talking to him)
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7. LordEoin
8.
9.
10. johnrm (2nd batch if short bodies)
I won't be able to brew for the next few weeks, hope that won't be a problem.
In terms of a beer to brew I think an October beer would be a pretty cool idea in it's own right, but also because it would pick up some brett over time >:D Also, when these beers were sold commerically in the early 19th century they were called pale stouts!
You mentioned the J.W. Lees Harvest Ale recipe from the Mitch Steele book previously, Garry - there's a version in the Gordon Strong book as well, which is designed to mature a bit quicker.
Hey, we could also chop it up, use it to smoke a couple of tonnes of wheat malt and make so much gratzer you could fill a swimming pool. 8)
200l will be easier to fill!
Recipe from Radical Brewing is pretty simple...
Yield: 19l with OG of 1.088 (Add 5l for boil off and losses)
ABV 7.3-8.4
74 IBU
4.5kg Maris Otter (Subbing MCI Pale) 100%
Mash in 67C
Mash out 75.5C
90min 85g EKG 5%
30min 57g EKG 5%
0min 57g EKG 5%
Note: 90min boil
I think WLP002...
http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp002-english-ale-yeast
Mixed results with flavour, but we're looking at aging this until Nov. so hopefully pick up some character from the Barrel.
What about dry hopping the barrel? According to Mitch Steele, early 20th century English IPAs were dry hopped with 0.25 to 0.5 pounds per bbl.
We could do if we had more access to the inside of the Barrel.
I vote we send Garry in to clean out the hops.
Is this going to be the barrels last beer? If we used pellets for dry hopping they should wash it ok?
Talks of going sour next.
See Billys posts above, he's getting fond of Belgians :-)
Tag and Belgian in the same sentence? Hearsey!
I wouldn't dry hop in the barrel if the plan is to age for a year. Dry hop aroma disappears after a while, so apart from getting them out they'll have no effect unless you add them in shortly before emptying it.
On the other hand you can dry hop in kegs once it comes out of the barrel if that's what you fancy.
Those who want to can add some brett to a demi-john / keg or two at that stage as well it would allow those of us who might want something Orvalesque to do that - without spoiling it for others who don't.
I've 4 other sources apart from Radical Brewing with recipes for October beers and pale stouts. There's a couple of areas of choice - even with just one hop and one malt and to be honest from experience researching gratzers and gose I wouldn't totally rely on RB. Based on what I've read some of the main choices would be:
How big - OGs went from 1080 to 1120(!)
Hops - How much? - 100+ IBUs would be well within historic norms
- What type? Goldings would be historically accurate, but with such high IBUs a bittering hop might be worth considering
but big citrusy / exotic fruit flavours would make it a different beer
- When? some recipes say all at 60 minutes, others have half the IBUs going in at 60 and the rest at 30 which sounds
like a good option to me
- What form? with 100+ IBUs of hops, I'd be thinking pellets, especially if we're going with all Goldings
Malt - Finest pale malt would be traditional - modern recipes often specify Maris Otter (although it only appeared in 20th C)
I'm sure MCI malt would be fine, but might need some amber malt to get a bit most biscuitiness (5%?)
Mash - standard single infusion at 67 would probably be ok
Boil - Boil times on the recipes I've seen have varied between 90 minutes and 3.5 hours(!) - hopefully the addition of a
little amber will do the trick in terms of giving some of the colour the longer boils produced.
Any thoughts?
I was only suggesting to dry hop the barrel because that's what we did long-go. If it won't add anything to the beer then scrap that idea.
Dry hopping/brett-alyzing in the keg is probably the best. We could all end up with our own unique beer too.
My thoughts:
How big:
I'd stay on the shy side of 1.100, suggest 1.090?
Hops:
- IBUs shy side of 100 for me, say 90?
- I'm happy to stick with EKG. It seems to be the only main hop mentioned in Mitch Steele's IPA for old English ales.
- I'd prefer to split the hop times. 60min & 30min like MrH suggests. Would a generous 0min addition be lost with aging?
- I've no preference over leaf or pellets.
Malt:
MCI malt is as fresh and local as we can get. I'd like to stick to 100% ale malt as per the original English October Ale/IPAs. But if you want to add in some colour, biscuit etc 5% of amber would be fine too.
Mash:
standard single infusion at 67 for me too
Boil:
No more than 90 min. The malt and hops we use now are a lot more efficient than the ones we had back in the 19th century! Besides that, if you boiled for 3.5hours you'd be lucky to end up with 5 litres of wort with the viscosity of treacle! You could pull of a litre or 2 of wort and reduce it on the hob to get some of the amber colour?
Having said all that, I'm the most amateur brewer on the list. I'll follow whatever you pros think.
Quote from: Garry on February 20, 2014, 02:02:06 PM
I'd stay on the shy side of 1.100, suggest 1.090?
I'm good with that, but if you really want this beer to be drinkable in 18 years time, bigger might be better.
Quote from: Garry on February 20, 2014, 02:02:06 PM
- IBUs shy side of 100 for me, say 90?
- I'm happy to stick with EKG. It seems to be the only main hop mentioned in Mitch Steele's IPA for old English ales.
- I'd prefer to split the hop times. 60min & 30min like MrH suggests. Would a generous 0min addition be lost with aging?
- I've no preference over leaf or pellets.
The BU:GU ratio on the recipes I saw is generally around 1:1 so 90 IBUs sounds good. Sadly, late hopping is not traditional and it would probably loose some impact after a year.
The reason I mention pellets and high alpha hops is because 90+ IBUs of EKG is a lot of hop material. I'm good with EKG (great hop!) but I'd rather use pellets than see leaf hops absorb a good portion of my precious 1090 brew.
Quote from: Garry on February 20, 2014, 02:02:06 PM
Boil:
No more than 90 min.
Damn straight!
BTW Garry, I've some yeast for you next time I see you. I'm drinking the Black IPA that I used your US-05 in and I'd definitely say you saved the day!
Is anyone on for this?
1 - mr happy
Did you spot this list a few posts back?...
1. johnrm
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara (Just talking to him)
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7. LordEoin
8.
9.
10. johnrm (2nd batch if short bodies)
I was looking at the yeast selection on HBC. Would a Burton Ale yeast be more suitable than English Ale? They're out of stock of both!
https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/white-labs-wlp023-burton-ale-yeast-p-1024.html
https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/white-labs-wlp002-english-ale-yeast-p-1018.html
HBW have wlp023, same stuff
Quote from: johnrm on February 28, 2014, 10:05:53 AM
HBW have wlp023, same stuff
Do we buy one or two, and split it and step it up? We could also check with the F Well, to see if they have anything suitable?
Quote from: Tube on February 28, 2014, 10:57:40 AM
What are ye actually brewing lads? It's not a lambic I gather? ???
We've decided to
rebel against a lambic for the moment. We're not cultured enough to drink a whole barrel of the stuff :P Going to put an October Ale in the whiskey barrel instead.
Might aswell get a few more uses out of that barrel before we infect it with belgium
I think the October Ale is a great idea, would love to contribute but would like to check a few things first - haven't done this a high a gravity beer before so would appreciate some advice. I actually have one vial of WLP002 (planning to do a batch of bitter in the next week or two), but for a high gravity beer like that I'm guessing you need a shedload of yeast which either means stepping up a starter or making a low gravity batch of beer. So if I did my batch of bitter first I'd have the yeast from that to start a batch of October Ale, but that would be probably be about six weeks time or longer before I have the finished beer ready for the barrel (pretty busy at weekends so hard to make time for brewing at the moment) - is this too long?
I'll stick your name on the list anyway Doc. As for yeast and when? We'll see! I've never used liquid yeast before so it's all new to me :o
1. johnrm
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara (Just talking to him)
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7. LordEoin
8. Dr Horrible
9.
10. johnrm (2nd batch if short bodies)
11. ColmOM
:)
1. johnrm
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara (Just talking to him)
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7. LordEoin
8. Dr Horrible
9. ColmOM
10. johnrm (2nd batch if short bodies)
I've about 6 jars with WLP037 (Yorkshire Square) that I washed from a mild recently. Would fit the bill if people are interested.
Careful lads, yeast from Mr H? He's not to be trusted...
If it's suitable and will last til brewday, then great!
Almost guilted DonnchadhC into this. O0
Worse than my feckin wife.......
I'm running the numbers based on Radical Brewing.
4.5Kg Pale yielding 19l with 76% efficiency is giving me 4.2%
8.3Kg is needed to hit 7.8%, the boil won't be a problem, but tuns need to be big.
Thoughts?
@Tube, Yep, loads of Oak and Whiskey, but I'd say its gone now. The Barrel help Sams Black IPA after this.
Go for the higher gravity, this thing has to survive in the barrel, never mind standing up to the oak!
A normal 30 litre mash tun should take that for a 20 litre batch surely?
Scratch that, 28l+ Mashtun will be fine.
Is there a group brew day for this? If not, anyone fancy it?
I don't think we were planning a group brew? It it would be very hard for all of us to do it the same day anyway, but does anyone want to suggest a time and place and we'll see who's available?
Not sure if I'd be up for a mammoth brew like we did for the stout, but wouldn't mind a bit of partnering up on a smaller scale.
Line up by the wall lads and we'll pick a few teams :P
Shirts and skins?
I think most lads are on electric, a group brew would fry domestic electrics.
John, you've a gas burner and I've got 2 propane cylinders.
I've looked at recipes for October beers in a couple of sources (Mitch Steele, Gordon Strong, Ron Pattinson and Randy Mosher). Based on that, and garry's feedback here's some thoughts on a possible recipe:
Grain bill:
All grain
Pale malt - 8kg
Amber malt - 200g
Mash: Single infusion 20 litres @ 67C
Batch sparge x 2 - 6 litres @ 75C
Water treatment (Cork city water) - 1 tsp Calcium Chloride
Boil - 90 minutes
Hops
60 minutes - 60 g East Kent Goldings 5% AA - 44 IBU
30 minutes - 80 g East Kent Goldings 5% AA - 45 IBU
Yeast: WLP037
http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp037-yorkshire-square-ale-yeast
Joking aside, this is a very decent, characterful English ale yeast that can handle high alcohol.
Boil volume 24 l
Original volume 20 l
Final volume 18 l
Expected boil gravity: 77
Expected original gravity: 90
Expected final gravity: 23
Expected ABV: 8.5%
Expected colour: 7
Expected IBU: 90
I know not everyone batch sparges, (or lives in the city - I add calcium to all my brews as it's very low in city water - so water treatment mightn't be relevant for some people) - other assumptions are 10% boil off per hour, malt absorbing 1 litre of water per kg and 75% efficiency.
Primary - 2 - 3 weeks - rousing occassionally
Secondary in Barrel - 6 mths - 1 year
Keg and add dry hops and / or brett to taste
or Partial mash, same as above except
Pale malt - 6kg
Amber malt - 200g
DME - 1.635kg at start of boil
Mash: Single infusion 18 litres @ 67C
Batch sparge x 2 - 6 litres @ 75C
On the partial mash option - I've a pretty small mash tun, and others might also. The DME represents 25% of the fermentables and Designing Great Beers say using that kind of proportion of DME for a barley wine will not impact flavour profile significantly.
I've not got access to beersmith at the moment, does anyone want to run this through it and see what they get?
@ MrH, congrats on the medal :D Is the WLP037 from that beer?
The recipe looks good. You're library is much bigger than mine :P
I ran the partial extract ingredients (no hops) through beersmith and here's what she says:
Recipe: Rebel October Ale Barrel - Partial Extract TYPE: Partial Mash
Style: Imperial IPA
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 18.1 EBC SRM RANGE: 15.8-29.6 EBC
IBU: 0.0 IBUs Tinseth IBU RANGE: 60.0-120.0 IBUs
OG: 1.107 SG OG RANGE: 1.070-1.090 SG
FG: 1.029 SG FG RANGE: 1.010-1.020 SG
BU:GU: 0.000 Calories: 427.1 kcal/l Est ABV: 10.5 %
EE%: 72.00 % Batch: 18.00 l Boil: 15.90 l BT: 90 Mins
---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------
Total Grain Weight: 7.83 kg Total Hops: 0.00 g oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.40 ------
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 76.6 %
0.20 kg Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 2 2.6 %
The OG is coming out 1.107, does that sound right? I think a partial extract will work fine for those that don't have the mash tun capacity. We're all going to have different processes anyway. If we are all just doing a 18L batch we might need another volunteer? I might be able to do a 25L batch. I'll check the figures later.
I don't know much about water treatment. My water comes from a well, it tastes grand! It leaves limescale in the kettle so that makes it hard right? Like Burton On Trent water??
Edit: I've just seen on another thread that WLP037 was used in your medal winner :)
Using a boil of rate of 3l/hr and an efficiency of 65% on a 19 litre batch, the all grain comes in at an OG of 1.089 and an FG of 1.023. Colour is 15.1 EBC. All nearly dead on, except the IBU's only come in at 52.9!
Have a look at the volumes, we can always double mash (get two picnic coolers!)
Good man Donnchadh, I had the efficiency set to default (72%). The AG numbers are coming out as per MrH's now, but the partial-extract OG is 1.100.
I put in the hops, the IBU's are low for me too. I'm getting 58.2 using pellets.
To fill the Barrel we need to have 10 x 21l in Secondary so no agitated trub in transit.
21l to allow for small accidents.
We could do cluster brews depending on kit.
1. johnrm - Electric 33l plastic (Have Gas burner, Propane Cylinder, need reg and 50l s/s pot)
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7. LordEoin
8. Dr Horrible
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC (taking johnrm 2nd slot)
I can try 30L in primary at a push!
So is this the new plan?
- everyone brew this recipe individually
- aim for 21L in secondary
- complete primary, transfer to secondary
- bring to garry's and tip into the barrel to age
Garry my system has a 65% efficiency so I use that :)
Attached the beersmith I did earlier for others. I would aim for 23 litres to take into account for trub loss etc.
When do we aim for?
Quote from: LordEoin on March 04, 2014, 10:40:26 AM
- bring to garry's and tip into the barrel to age
For that perfect Cardboard-ish Je ne sais quoi >:D
Quote from: LordEoin on March 04, 2014, 10:40:26 AM
•everyone brew this recipe individually
It's probably easier to brew individually alright. But some of us might be able to team up in two's (maybe three's?) if it works out on the day?
I think we might have to increase the hops to get us closer to a 1:1 bitterness ratio? I'm sure MrH will comment when he's back online.
Quote from: donnchadhc on March 04, 2014, 10:57:47 AM
When do we aim for?
Good question!
I'd be for a group sesh
I'd be up for a small session as well, but it all depends on the day, and what I have on. If a few of us can get together great, but if I just get a spare few hours to brew, I will just go for it. I need to put a house brew on for something to drink first as stocks are getting low, so it will probably be a few weeks before I do the October beer.
I'll suss out the Mad Monk for Sat March 29th maybe Sun 30th
Please fill in the list if you are Gas or electric or if 29th/30th or both suits
1. johnrm - 2 x 2.2Kw Electric 33l plastic (Have Gas burner, Propane Cylinder, need reg and 50l s/s pot) either date
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7. LordEoin
8. Dr Horrible
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC (taking johnrm 2nd slot)
Quote from: mr happy on February 28, 2014, 11:47:44 PM
I've about 6 jars with WLP037 (Yorkshire Square) that I washed from a mild recently. Would fit the bill if people are interested.
Are we going to go with this yeast? How big is a jar? Could be a good opportunity to give my recently acquired stir plate it's first run out.
Quote from: johnrm on March 04, 2014, 12:33:27 PM
I'll suss out the Mad Monk for Sat March 29th maybe Sun 30th
Please fill in the list if you are Gas or electric or if 29th/30th or both suits
1. johnrm - 2 x 2.2Kw Electric 33l plastic (Have Gas burner, Propane Cylinder, need reg and 50l s/s pot) either date
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7. LordEoin
8. Dr Horrible
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC (taking johnrm 2nd slot)
I'll probably stick closer to home. Might see if Dara wants to do something as he's just down the road from me.
Good point on the secondary John.
Also, good point on the hops - would definitely go with pellets on this one.
On IBUs - which formula are you guys using in Beersmith? The brewing spreadsheet I use has a formula in it from JP's how to brew which I think is based on the Tinseth formula - so if you're set with Rager or Garetz in BS that might be the difference. I'm ok with whatever formula people prefer - more hops is not a problem.
I assume we'll try to fill the barrel all in one go - so it might be good to focus on that as a social aspect?
A jar is not a lot - you'll need to do a starter alright!
1. johnrm - 2 x 2.2Kw Electric 33l plastic (Have Gas burner, Propane Cylinder, need reg and 50l s/s pot) either date
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Garry - 1x2kw + 1x3kw, 29th
7. LordEoin
8. Dr Horrible
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC
Me learning shít today :P
Tinseth formula gives 86.9 IBUs
Ragar forumla gives 92.1 IBUs
Garetz formula gives 58.6 IBUs
It looks like Beersmith is using Garetz as default. Why the big difference between Garetz and the other two though?
I'm wrong! Beersmith uses Tinseth as default. I got the above IBUs using the Tools - Hop Bitterness tool.
When I change the default formula in Tools - Options - Bitterness I get the following IBUs in the recipe:
Tinseth formula gives 58.2 IBUs
Ragar forumla gives 67.8 IBUs
Garetz formula gives 43.3 IBUs
I'm confused now! I'll end up breaking Beersmith if I fiddle with it anymore :P
Interesting - what options are you using?
When I change the gravity field to 1.090 on the bitterness tool, it seems to bring the IBU's back in line with the values I'm getting in the recipe.
Rager is what the American guys usually use is it not?
He's what Jamil uses, if that's what you mean. :)
Aren't these the same Americans that still use miles, have a 3.7litre Gallon and voted for G.W. Bush?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3A9rG022M
.....and think a gallon is only 19 litres. Yep, that's them!
1. johnrm - 2 x 2.2Kw Electric 33l plastic (Have Gas burner, Propane Cylinder, need reg and 50l s/s pot) either date
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Garry - 1x2kw + 1x3kw, 29th
7. LordEoin
8. Dr Horrible
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC 2 x 2.4 kW plastic boiler, 29th (can just use one element)
Tube has some EKG pellets for sale, so presume people are interested in getting them for the October Beer?
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,5932.0.html
Good man Taf. I have 300g of EKG pellets myself so I should have spare hops if anyone else needs them.
Yeast is sorted too.
We need Malt. Does everyone have 8kg Pale and 200g Amber?
I need to check my stock.
not yet, but that's easy to fix
1. johnrm - 2 x 2.2Kw Electric 33l plastic (Have Gas burner, Propane Cylinder, need reg and 50l s/s pot) either date
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Garry - 1x2kw + 1x3kw, 29th
7. LordEoin 2X2.2kw
8. Dr Horrible
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC 2 x 2.4 kW plastic boiler, 29th (can just use one element)
Re the EKG, I've started a consolidated list, as per below link, so we can go to Tube with one order, and can get delivery and distribute among ourselves.
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,5935.0.html
I have plenty of base malt.
I don't have any Amber though!
Same here, as have plenty pale, but no amber.
Lads. Someone really should add a no converted starch addition for their brew. Addition of corn. Gives the beasties a food source for the upcoming year or so .
So lemme see if I have the shopping list correct:
8kg pale malt - https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/maris-otter-whole-grain-10kg-p-2090.html
200g amber malt - https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/amber-whole-grain-80-ebc-1kg-p-2097.html
140g ekg - Tube
wlp037 - https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/white-labs-wlp037-yorkshire-square-ale-yeast-p-2057.html
whirfloc tablet
Right?
Yeast will be provided by Andrew I think. I second the use of whirlfloc.
Sounds good LE. I'd not thought about using finings but might be a good idea - just remember WLP037 is very flocculant.
Is there enough yeast for everyone or will some of us need to buy a few vials - I'm making an order anyway so not a big deal if I have to get some yeast as well.
What size starter are we talking about? Did a rough calc on Mr Malty and it looks like a 4.5/5L starter using two vials to get enough yeast, or else do two steps. Or am I way off?
Quote from: Dr Horrible on March 06, 2014, 01:47:34 PM
Is there enough yeast for everyone or will some of us need to buy a few vials - I'm making an order anyway so not a big deal if I have to get some yeast as well.
What size starter are we talking about? Did a rough calc on Mr Malty and it looks like a 4.5/5L starter using two vials to get enough yeast, or else do two steps. Or am I way off?
Haven't checked, but that sounds reasonable enough. I just got a stir plate, so want to christen that, so will try to step it up a couple of times, but it might just suit some people to buy it? Would dry yeast be an option for those who may not want to use liquid?
I'm sure it would be fine. Notty would be what I'd use if I was going dry. Anyone else?
Mr Malty's a bit extreme in its calculations - I'd take it with a pinch of salt.
If you are doing a larger starter (2l+) try to chill and decant the wort before pitching. I'd say that should work quite well as WLP037 drops out pretty hard.
Hi guys, been been meaning to reply to this all week.
1. johnrm - 2 x 2.2Kw Electric 33l plastic (Have Gas burner, Propane Cylinder, need reg and 50l s/s pot) either date
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Garry - 1x2kw + 1x3kw, 29th
7. LordEoin 2X2.2kw
8. Dr Horrible
9. ColmOM - 1x2kw 33l plastic boiler
10. DonnchadhC 2 x 2.4 kW plastic boiler, 29th (can just use one element)
In terms of malt and hops, I'll be making an order for some other stuff I need to stock up on today probably, should I include what I need for this brew too or is there some sort of group buy happening with it?
There's plenty of amber malt floating around, and I believe mr happy is going to sort some yeast.
I just ordered the lot for myself anyway for convenience.
Lads, I've got Crushed Amber, I split it with Billy so no need to buy this.
Thank Sam in Blacks for this by buying loads of his great beer.
Once Mr H back is back on the sod, we'll figure yeast and malt distribution.
Can't see thanking Sam being a problem then! :)
Thanking Sam is never a problem om nom nom! ;)
I'm thanking Sam right now!
So.. what's the plan? We all have hops, we all have grain. Some have yeast, MrHappy will be making more yeast.
Have we set a date to have our buckets of trub-free buckets of racked beer going into the barrell for secondary?
I have the hops and Amber.
I can meet with Andrew if he's around to split the yeast too. I have yeast vials so all ingredients will be the same.
Just need a starter.
29th is brew day.
Rack to secondary and fill 19th April.
(Change rack and fill date)
I've been thinking about this, particularly after reading Gordon Strong's book, and I'd say this probably needs a month in the primary fermentor, at least before racking.
Taking it off the yeast any earlier will mean it won't clear up off flavours from primary fermentation.
Yeah, I think he has a fairly specific reason for that!
I'm thinking more of some of the more general advice he gives in later chapters on avoiding off flavours here.
Changed rack and fill date.
What volume of yeast do you have Mr H?
I've 6 samples at the moment. They'll need to be built up though.
As I'm on gas I'll probably brew solo and I think taf had a similar plan.
I can distribute yeast on Saturday at the Well if that works for people.
Is that the plan for the hops as well?
I have everything I need and brewing on electric so I'll probably be solo too ;)
I'm aiming for an demo AG brew in the Mad Monk.
FYI, Paudie in the Well mentioned that repeat beers are maybe not a brilliant idea in the same barrel.
There is a risk of contamination etc.
This is reduced if you alternate Spirit/Beer/Spirit...
Thoughts?
I know Damun is sourcing fresh barrels.
Obviously, Paudie's talking from the perspective of a commercial brewery and while there's clearly risks there are also ways to mitigate them.
The Liffey Valley guys have been passing round a BYO article that discusses how to keep the barrel clean between fills.
Where is the barrel now and is it empty. If it is, or when it is - we need a plan to keep it sweet between fills just as much as we need a plan to fill it again.
John, can you bring some amber on Saturday please? I thought I ordered some, but I didn't :-X I'll try join you on the mad monk brew if I can.
Good man Mr H, just scuppered our chances of a peek at it...
Sorry Tube, slip of the keyboard there. :-[
Where is the barrel now? Was doing a bit of research last night, and I reckon we probably need to fill it with a campden tablet solution ASAP if it's not in use any more.
Sam has BIPA in it in Kinsale AFAIK.
He'll be in the Well on Saturday.
Cool.
Only concern is if he were racking it off a keg at time, and leaving ullage behind but I'm sure that's not the case.
Big thing is not to let it dry out. (Lots of) campden tablets are the answer!
I can get some (pharma grade) metabisulphite from work if needs be - how much are we talking about?
About 2hl :-*
Yeah, US units really are ridiculous (who's actually going to measure out 75 teaspoons?)- I went and did the sums and figured out how much we'd need for a 200L barrel. I have it all in a bottle, will bring it to the comp tomorrow. No citric acid at work unfortunately, they use either HCl or acetic, none of which we want near the barrel I'm guessing!
Except for Fahrenheit, that's a more accurate unit than Celsius.!
I've some citric acid at home. Probably <100g though.
I assume 75 tsp is around 375g?
Yeah, close enough. 1 teaspoon is 5mls, so if the density is around 1 then 375g is pretty close to 75 teaspoons. Just to be sure I measured out by volume rather than a weight.
Think the citric needed is 1 teaspoon per gallon, so that would be around 250g. The citric is for bringing the pH down, so we might get away with less depending on the water used.
I have a tub of citric acid too but there's only around 60-70g in it. I can pick some up in the pharmacy if we're short.
Think the trick with the citric acid is to release sulphur primarily. Beware when you mix and I'd advise doing it outdoors. It's not pleasant.
i have 97 camden tablets and 150g citric acid
I need to hook up with the lads in the Mad Monk.
I haven't had a chance yet, with the Comp and cooking the results.
Has everyone got what the need in terms of grain and Yeast?
I came away with 2 vials of Yeast on Saturday.
They look like they're going to explode.
Please post here anyone missing stuff.
I had baggies of Amber malt in with the Hops.
@Billy did you distribute the Hops/Malt?
Also, How much is owed for the Hops? (I need to fix up for the valve too.)
I need amber! Forgot to order it :X I've booked Saturday off so I could brew then.
I distributed the hops and some malt, but maybe not everyone got sorted? I actually left the bag with all my bits in the Well, and forgot to pick them up when I popped back in Sunday.
I will ask Jason to check that they are there, and anyone who still needs them, can collect directly from the Well maybe.
I got hops, amber and yeast on Saturday, thanks to Taf, John and Andrew for those!
Put the first step of the yeast starter on last night. Had no DME so had to do a mini mash with some leftover Maris Otter to get wort, PITA!
That yeast was at high krausen when I gave it out so it might be an idea to loosen the top.
I'd try to step it up to 500ml and then 2l.
Oxygenation or some sort of serious aeration might be an idea when pitching - or you might use the old olive oil trick.
If anyone is short I've plenty to spare.
Any info on the status of the barrel?
Oops, I stepped it straight into a 1.75 L. Hope it doesn't crap out, smelt lovely and clean though.
One more time...
Is anyone missing Yeast? I have an extra Vial.
This happens Saturday.
Has anyone got 200g odd of DME spare? I need some to do a second step up
I have but you're down Cork right?
Sent from my HTC One
Yea, sleep in cork, work in Clonmel! ;)
The barrel is settling in nicely :)
Looks good, but week those twigs hold the weight?
I'd be more worried about the nails holding the 'twigs' together
It's only creaking a little bit. Look at the barrel's face, does it look worried?
(i used 5mm screws, not nails, nails aren't worth a f...)
I assumed bolts.
What about bracing?
Chillax fellas. I'll look after it. I'll keep an eye on it over the next few days. If it needs extra stiffening it will get it. She weighs nearly a quarter of ton full after all. No one wants failed stillage :P
We should be able to do 2 batches simultaneously...
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,6204.msg78929.html#msg78929
Donnchadh? Garry?
Ok. I might do my mash at home. That would step things nicely.
I'll come back to you later, have to get my head around the weekend.
Shoot me on your mobile no. Donnchadh
I'll be brewing at home - but I might try and make it over to get in the way help out, depending on how Saturday works out.
Are we going to add a touch of calcium chloride to this?
i'll be brewing at home too
Quote from: donnchadhc on March 28, 2014, 09:37:08 AM
Are we going to add a touch of calcium chloride to this?
Do whatever you normally do for water treatment. I'd CC in the recipe because that's what I'll do.
If you usually do nothing that's good enough.
Going to try this to see what it does. The water around here is super soft (RO like)
My water's very soft as well - I put it in because yeasties need calcium and it seems to help a bit with mash pH.
If its Midleton, water is hard (at home anyway).
Not sure what its like in the Mad Monk.
I'll bring my Salifert kH kit.
Got this in last night. My mash tun wasn't big enough as I was trying to get 25-26 litres in (so I can have some for myself!). So I mashed thick which meant my efficiency was a little lower. Got 25 litres at 1.084. Took off like a rocket!
This is a little demijohn of extra 8 hours in! What you can't see is all the movement happening inside.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/eny6ebyp.jpg)
damn rain!
Garry and johnrm did trojan work in the rain down in the Mad Monk this afternoon. Hope it's drier tomorrow.
Yeah, sorry I couldn't make it. Started a #rebelbarrel on twitter if people are into that sort of thing!
I got 26 litres at 1.080. Didn't have time to do the step up yeast starter thing during the week so I threw in 2 packs packs of notty. It's ok, Mr happy saw me doing it.
Cheers to John and mad monk for hosting and f#ck you rain for soaking me to the bollocks. An enjoyable day otherwise ;D
Thanks to Mr. Happy for the yeast. Fantastic stuff!!
Gary, cheaters never prosper!!!!!
That was a cold wet day - fair play to Garry and John, I think I would have gone in to the fire and let the beer brew itself.
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2815/13505856183_c6dac98789.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mzt3vn)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7265/13505791135_889c224013.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mzsHaR)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7038/13505814345_4869ba7517.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/mzsQ52)
A good day, pity about the weather.
I missed temp on the mash so pulled off some wort and boiled it to get temp back up.
I ended up with 22l@ 1.072 having donated some to Garry. I should have spent more time pre-brew on my recipe/volumes.
Andrews yeast is steaming away. Nice healthy krausen.
Put down your brew date and details here lads.
1. johnrm - 2014.03.29 22l @ 1.072 Yorkshire square ale
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7. LordEoin
8. Dr Horrible
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC
1. johnrm - 2014.03.29 22l @ 1.072 Yorkshire square ale
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7. LordEoin
8. Dr Horrible
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC - 2014.03.28 @ 1.084 Yorkshire Ale Yeast
Is that a PID control HLT in pic two?
1. johnrm - 2014.03.29 22l @ 1.072 Yorkshire square ale
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7. LordEoin
8. Dr Horrible - 2014.03.29 23l@1.086 Yorkshire square ale
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC - 2014.03.28 @ 1.084 Yorkshire Ale Yeast
Mine also took off nicely. Started at 17deg and now up to 18. Probably going to let it free rise up to 20 and then hold it there - what's everyone else doing?
1. johnrm - 2014.03.29 22l @ 1.072 Yorkshire square ale
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Garry
7. LordEoin - 2014.03.30 @ 1.076 Yorkshire Square Ale
8. Dr Horrible - 2014.03.29 23l@1.086 Yorkshire square ale
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC - 2014.03.28 @ 1.084 Yorkshire Ale Yeast
1. johnrm - 2014.03.29 22l @ 1.072 Yorkshire square ale
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy
6. Lance Armstrong - 2014.03.29 26l @ 1.080 Notty
7. LordEoin - 2014.03.30 @ 1.076 Yorkshire Square Ale
8. Dr Horrible - 2014.03.29 23l@1.086 Yorkshire square ale
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC - 2014.03.28 @ 1.084 Yorkshire Ale Yeast
Is that to do with the shot of O2 Garry?
Quote from: donnchadhc on March 30, 2014, 11:07:06 AM
Is that a PID control HLT in pic two?
Sure is. I use it on my kettle to heat the strike and sparge water.
Quote from: johnrm on March 30, 2014, 06:15:04 PM
Is that to do with the shot of O2 Garry?
Oh yeah, the o2, that's it. Nothing to do with the yeast :P
Oh yes, Notty x 2
Oh I'd better use the Yorkshire so. Any stir bars floating about?
Your stir plate is quite big.
I have a big stirbar that should suit it.
I had to use the metal nozzle from a cake decorator. worked fine though ;)
what category is this beer? 19A?
I think so.
1. johnrm - 2014.03.29 22l @ 1.072 Yorkshire square ale
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy - 22l @ 1090 Yorkshire Square Ale
6. Lance Armstrong - 2014.03.29 26l @ 1.080 Notty
7. LordEoin - 2014.03.30 @ 1.076 Yorkshire Square Ale
8. Dr Horrible - 2014.03.29 23l@1.086 Yorkshire square ale
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC - 2014.03.28 @ 1.084 Yorkshire Ale Yeast
Quote from: LordEoin on March 30, 2014, 08:06:38 PM
what category is this beer? 19A?
I'd think our IBUs are too high for 19A and we are not going to have much malt complexity. I had a 19A in this years competition and that was one of the complaints I got back!
I'd say we are between 19B and 14A/14C?
@mrh, I see you've hit the OG on the nose! Fair play. How'd you manage to get to do a brew on Hallmark day?
Quote from: Dr Horrible on March 30, 2014, 12:15:24 PM
Mine also took off nicely. Started at 17deg and now up to 18. Probably going to let it free rise up to 20 and then hold it there - what's everyone else doing?
I usually let mine at 22° for the first 2 or 3 days. Then drop it down to 19° for the next couple of weeks. I think mr happy said to leave this on the yeast for 4 weeks before transferring to secondary.
I got my brew done by minding the kids, and making the dinner at the same time. :)
My brew pot is outside and in direct line of the kitchen window - so I was able to stay relatively dry as well!
Although, technically anything aged in a barrel is 22C, the recipe is aiming for J.W. Lees Harvest Ale which is supposed to be the closest thing to an October Beer these days. It's specifically mentioned as a commercial example under 19B - English Barley wines.
I used about 540g of DME to make sure I hit the target. I've found in the past that my efficiency can be a bit off with bigger brews so I made sure I had some handy.
I also boiled for 2 1/2 hours to make sure - which mightn't be a great idea for some brews but is consistent with how October beers were actually made.
From vial: keep over 70F until fermentation begins
From website: Optimum Ferment Temp 65-70°F
So this is a 19B andrew? sure we'll decide when it's done ;D
My Hop additions were the wrong way around too.
I blame the recipe (and the rain)
120g @ 60min
80g @ 30min
In case you're wondering where the bitterness is coming from.
I might repeat the brew in more favourable conditions.
I just texted ColmOM to see where he's at.
It'll be interesting to compare the colour of the 2.5 hour boil against the 1 hour boil.
I forgot we could use DME. I might add some to mine next week to bump it up to the correct OG? 700g should bump me up 10 points. Or should I just leave it alone?
I just checked on mine. It was a little too cosy at 24° so I took off the duvet. The krausen is after hitting the lid of the FV :o G'wan ya notty hooor ya! I'll keep any eye on it. I might set-up a blow-off tube tonight instead of the airlock.
Quote from: johnrm on March 31, 2014, 12:45:13 PM
I might repeat the brew in more favourable conditions.
I don't think that's necessary. Sure the South Dublin lads are all making up their own recipes and then adding to the barrel. We'll have a grand blend by next October :)
Does that mean we can chuck a bottle of whiskey in?
I was going to do it to get the Hops right (Might use BX) and to get the OG right.
I'd say just leave it and it'll all balance out over 200liters
I agree with LE. But don't chuck in the bottle of whiskey :P
+1
LE - what was your volume?
23l
1. johnrm - 2014.03.29 22l @ 1.072 Yorkshire square ale
2. taf
3. Sam
4. Dara
5. mr_happy - 22l @ 1090 Yorkshire Square Ale
6. Lance Armstrong - 2014.03.29 26l @ 1.080 Notty
7. LordEoin - 2014.03.30 23l @ 1.076 Yorkshire Square Ale
8. Dr Horrible - 2014.03.29 23l@1.086 Yorkshire square ale
9. ColmOM
10. DonnchadhC - 2014.03.28 25l@ 1.084 Yorkshire Ale Yeast
Total volume - 141l
Total gravity - 11,470
Average gravity - 1081
Target gravity - 1090
Let's try and keep the average gravity reasonably near the target. 1084 would be a good place to get to.
Boiling longer and adding a bit of DME (at the start of the boil) should help.
Looking good :) Although the volumes being posted at the moment are what's in primary. We'll all lose 2 or 3 litres between secondary and the barrel so the total final volume at the moment would be roughly 125l.
I have Text from ColmOM, he is under pressure so can't do the brew.
I can do it unless someone else wants to.
I'm low on Pale malt do need to visit MCI.
I won't get another brew on for a while myself but I could spare you some malt? I also have 200g of EKG and a unused spare vial of yeast.
I can't do it either, used up all my brownie points for this brew! By the way, I was going to save 5 litres for myself as I thought we were all contributing 20 L?
Is there anywhere in Cork to get DME, Ithink I'll throw in 0.5 kg to bring the gravity up?
I'm putting in an order with HBC at the moment. I'll get an extra 500g of dme for you?
Nah, it's alright, think I'm driving by during the week, want to get one of those plastic carboys for secondary. If there was someplace in Cork it would be dead handy!
Thanks for the offer.
Quote from: donnchadhc on March 31, 2014, 02:56:05 PM
I can't do it either, used up all my brownie points for this brew! By the way, I was going to save 5 litres for myself as I thought we were all contributing 20 L?
Is there anywhere in Cork to get DME, Ithink I'll throw in 0.5 kg to bring the gravity up?
same
I only have space for one fermenter so I can only do one batch at a time.
Does the health food shop upstairs in Paul St do DME? I think I might have seen some small bags of it up there, but can't be sure.
you can get some DME up in the health food place in tescos in town. a bit pricey but in the city.
i think they only have light DME
Why not do a mini-mash?
I'll squeeze in another brew.
I'll give my stirplate another spin!
I have stout malt which will be fine, I'll balance it upwith some Caramalt.
Need 1l of wort at a gravity of circa 1.2 to get the SG up to 1.09. Not gonna mini mash that!!!
I've 1.5kg of DME if anyone needs some. I'm in town weekdays.
Would think the best way to do this would be to bump up any additional brews rather than messing with the ones that are already fermenting?
That's my plan.
Would the brews not have to go to 1.15 ish? Add DME or double mash? I'd keep the hopping rates the same, it will even out in the barrel
Just thinking about it, and not saying it's a good idea but Dogfish head increase the gravity on their 120 minute IPA by adding sugar to it after its started fermenting.
Wouldn't add sugar to this, but is anyone so confident about their sanitation that they'd risk poppping a kilo of DME in. :o
Lets just aim to get it as high as possible. Even if it only lands on average at 1.084 at 75% attenuation you'll still have a FG of 1.021 and an eight and a half percent beer.
I'm pulling the average down right now. More controlled conditions (not pissing rain) will hopefully boost morale and produce a better batch.
i think we should all just stick with what we've got, let it do it's thing, and let the blending sort it all out.
I'll try to make mine a touch on the strong side so, and might get the second runnings too. That Yorkshire square is very lively, as mine was fizzing a bit, but in the fridge now, and will do starter soon.
Was reading up on the yeast - and it seems fermenting down around 16C is a no no - those with temp controls: aim for around 20C if you can.
Quote from: LordEoin on March 31, 2014, 12:39:22 PM
From vial: keep over 70F until fermentation begins
From website: Optimum Ferment Temp 65-70°F
in celcius : 18.5C - 21C optimum
Latest contributors...
1. johnrm - 2014.03.29 22l @ 1.072 Yorkshire square ale
2. taf - Still in
3. Sam - Johnrm stepping in.
4. Dara - Still in
5. mr_happy - 22l @ 1090 Yorkshire Square Ale
6. Lance Armstrong - 2014.03.29 26l @ 1.080 Notty
7. LordEoin - 2014.03.30 23l @ 1.076 Yorkshire Square Ale
8. Dr Horrible - 2014.03.29 23l@1.086 Yorkshire square ale
9. ColmOM Colm is under pressure so Alain Dekoster is jumping in.
10. DonnchadhC - 2014.03.28 25l@ 1.084 Yorkshire Ale Yeast
What # post is the recipe?
#98
Quote from: mr happy on March 04, 2014, 05:05:46 AM
Grain bill:
All grain
Pale malt - 8kg
Amber malt - 200g
Mash: Single infusion 20 litres @ 67C
Batch sparge x 2 - 6 litres @ 75C
Water treatment (Cork city water) - 1 tsp Calcium Chloride
Boil - 90 minutes
Hops
60 minutes - 60 g East Kent Goldings 5% AA - 44 IBU
30 minutes - 80 g East Kent Goldings 5% AA - 45 IBU
Yeast: WLP037
http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp037-yorkshire-square-ale-yeast
Joking aside, this is a very decent, characterful English ale yeast that can handle high alcohol.
Boil volume 24 l
Original volume 20 l
Final volume 18 l
Expected boil gravity: 77
Expected original gravity: 90
Expected final gravity: 23
Expected ABV: 8.5%
Expected colour: 7
Expected IBU: 90
I know not everyone batch sparges, (or lives in the city - I add calcium to all my brews as it's very low in city water - so water treatment mightn't be relevant for some people) - other assumptions are 10% boil off per hour, malt absorbing 1 litre of water per kg and 75% efficiency.
Primary - 2 - 3 weeks - rousing occassionally
Secondary in Barrel - 6 mths - 1 year
Keg and add dry hops and / or brett to taste
or Partial mash, same as above except
Pale malt - 6kg
Amber malt - 200g
DME - 1.635kg at start of boil
Mash: Single infusion 18 litres @ 67C
Batch sparge x 2 - 6 litres @ 75C
Based on my experiece:
1 - my efficiency wasn't great, but I had some DME handy so I was able to hit my numbers that way.
2 - the wort didn't come out of the mash at the gravity I was looking for, but historically this was boiled for ages - we agreed on 90 minutes initially, but I boiled for 2 hours to concentrate the wort which was still to style.
3 - the yeast, if you're using the WLP037, DO NOT LET THIS YEAST FERMENT COOL, unless you like clove flavoured barley wine. 16C is bad, 20C is good.
Also, with Tube's 7.3% AA EKG you'll need about 42g on the first addition and 55g on the second.
a bit late for adjusting the quantities ;D
ah well.. a little extra bitterness won't hurt
That was more for those who hadn't brewed already. :)
Just trying some of the 2010 Fuller's Vintage I got in the Abbott and if our brew is even half as good as that it'll be great.
21 litre at 1.087
20L at 1.083.
1. johnrm - 2014.03.29 22l @ 1.072 Yorkshire square ale
2. taf - 21l @ 1087
3. Sam - Johnrm stepping in.
4. Dara - 20l @ 1083
5. mr_happy - 22l @ 1090 Yorkshire Square Ale
6. Lance Armstrong - 2014.03.29 26l @ 1.080 Notty
7. LordEoin - 2014.03.30 23l @ 1.076 Yorkshire Square Ale
8. Dr Horrible - 2014.03.29 23l@1.086 Yorkshire square ale
9. ColmOM Colm is under pressure so Alain Dekoster is jumping in.
10. DonnchadhC - 2014.03.28 20l@ 1.084 Yorkshire Ale Yeast
Total volume - 177l
Total gravity - 14,537
Average gravity - 1082 @ 75% attentuation = approx 8.5%
Target gravity - 1090
So, another 43 litres to get us up to 220 litres!
I took a gravity reading yesterday and got 1020 - about 78% attentuation.
I did get some of the dreaded clove off it, although hopefully it'll mellow out into nuttiness:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/nut-brown-ale-wlp-037-yorkshire-square-229361/
so make sure you ferment @ 20, not 16!
Mine is at 1.016. No cloves. Should I leave mine on the notty for 4 weeks too ?
T:e cloves are a wlp037 thing but given that it's a big beer no harm to give it time to clean up after itself.
1.014 and banana.
Read here...
http://www.jstrack.org/brewing/wlp037p.html
We're going to have a sh*t-ton of this yeast floating about soon.
We should take the opportunity wash the yeast and offer it up for any other clubs thinking of doing something similar.
@johnrm - that's a very interesting link, thanks! - mind from what i've read the temps need to be above the lower end of the range or it won't mellow out at all.
@Lordeoin - High alcohol fcks yeasties up. It's a one way trip!
Mind. I've a little of this left from the original batch and I'm planning on doing a low ABV session beer with that so I should be able to harvest from it.
I was planning on a bitter and throwing it on the trub. Would I be better just getting a new pitch?
You can try, a small bitter might be ok.
I've more and I can bring some along to the next meet up if you want.
Any chance I might pick some up over the weekend? Thinking of brewing Good Friday, won't get a chance after that!!
I have some of that yeast too. Send me a pm if you're interested.
Just took a measurement- 1.012 and lots of clove. I fermented at 20deg so hoping it's temporary. Also a bit concerned that I overshot the final gravity so much, I thought I hit the target mash temp ok, not sure what else could have caused it, that yeast just would not stop!
What sort of Weiss would you very out of this yeast?
22l@ 1.088, much better.
23 litres in secondary. 1.032, still got a way to go, very worty, my heater broke unbeknownst to me so it got cold. Currently in a lagging jacket!!! Clove bomb though.
Can't say I'm really enjoying all this mention of clove and banana, when we are not talking about a weiss. Hopefully it will die down, but that doesn't always seem to be the case after reading up on this particular yeast.
Has anyone tasted it yet? Will check mine this evening.
The yeast is known to give off that clove when young, but it fades mostly out. No Problem :)
I tasted two samples yesterday, one in my main fermenter and another 3 litres I had in a demijohn (we'll have an unoaked version :) . The main hasn't finished yet (it got cold) and is worty. The other has mostly finished. The malt is gonna come through on this nicely. The clove and banana is quite prominent, but it has a slight difference in taste. It's tastes like it will fade and become a "fruity" note, if you know what I mean. The alcohol is there too, hope that fades. What have the rest of ye guys got?
Just took first look at mine, and a real nose burning sniff when I cracked the lid! It's down to 1.010 and I definitely get the clove, but very fruity and probably one of the best beers I've tasted straight from the fermentor in a good while. Do we really have to barrel this, as would be happy to stick it straight into a keg. Definitely going to pick up some of this yeast to try with a few fruity hops.
Just finished the sample jar, and would love some more. Are we going to barrel this soon, as would be worried it won't make it otherwise!
Mrh was saying we should leave this on the yeast for at least 4 weeks. So it's going to be another couple of weeks before it goes into barrel.
Mine tastes good at the moment. No clove or banana but you can definitely taste the alcohol.
When you shams did the last barrel, did the bung go a bit hairy/mouldy on the outside? The inside looks fine.
Put a bitter on with this yeast yesterday. You know it's going to be good!. (Also put on my first mead and put this in secondary, good day) The sample still had a lot of yeast in suspension, so moving to secondary is probably ok.
Don't remember the outside of the bung getting funky. Maybe sterilise it and just cover the opening in the meantime, or should we be looking for a new bung?
mine stopped chugging around 1.010. I took it out of the brewfridge and raised the temperature by a few degrees to see if there was any more fermenting in it and t dropped another 2 points.
I'll try boiling the bung for 30min.
Maybe shove it in the oven for 10 mins.
Then sit it starsan, let it soak in.
I have a couple of spare bungs in the car, all used.
Quote from: johnrm on April 19, 2014, 02:35:03 PM
Maybe shove it in the oven for 10 mins.
Then sit it starsan, let it soak in.
I have a couple of spare bungs in the car, all used.
I boiled it for 30min. Then dried it in the oven at 150d for an hour. That should sort it out?
i assumed it's wooden?
Soak it in Starsan for a few days, or would that be detrimental to it?
I think you should be good after the oven Garry.
A boil is only going to +/- 100c
Pasterisation is approx 60 degrees for half an hour? The issue is getting all of the bung at that temp. I'd say that you did with that regime Gary.
Ye are probably right - but remember wood isn't rubber or glass, brett can burrow the best part of a centimeter into wood.
Are you saying that Brett had visited us already? You Charlatan.
Who's to say between fills.
If the bung is has brett, then no need to worry about it because the rest of the barrel would too.
The way this yeast is going by the time it's done there'll be nothing left for any Brett to handle- mine is still trundling away, reckon a year in a barrel with this it'll be good and dry, maybe that's why the old style receipe worked out well.
When are these going into the barrel? Having this sit around for so long is starting to get annoying.
Get it into secondary when it hits 4 weeks. Alain is only a week in, so the weekend of the 10th gives his three weeks, and should be ok for 1/10th of the batch.
Mines in secondary a week, left a little fermentation to get a CO2 blanket
10th doesn't work for Garry, but the 9th does (Fri).
Does it suit people to do this then? I can give lifts and bring beer if need be.
Ideally we want to get all beer in at the same time.
Alains should be fine at three weeks old.
I'll be working til 9pm, but no problem otherwise
9th is fine for me, what time? Had one if these unoaked tonight, cloves have fallen out somewhat, lovely!
I have an evening planned already with a few guys on the 9th, can cancel if needs be but would really rather not as none of us get out that much. What's the earliest time that would suit you Garry after work that I could call round? Alternatively I could meet someone after work and give them the beer to bring over, I work in Little Island and will probably be driving into Cork that day.
I will mule beer around if need be Dr H. I live in Midleton, work in Cork daily. A presence would be great, but is not essential. Just have beers on splash proof containers.
Quote from: Dr Horrible on May 02, 2014, 12:05:54 AM
What's the earliest time that would suit you Garry after work that I could call round?
I work at home so I'm around 95% of the time. If you are under pressure you can drop the beer to me Wednesday or Thursday evening and we'll rack it into the barrel on Friday. We can sort out the return of the empty FV's afterwards.
PM me for directions.
My phone number is 087 9791376 if you want to give me a shout before you leave.
The 9th should be okay for me.
+1 for me.
what time are folks expecting to drop beer tomorow?
8:30 - 9:00 ish.
Pm me if you need directions.
Gary could I drop my batch up early and come back for the filling?
Quote from: donnchadhc on May 09, 2014, 09:39:59 AM
Gary could I drop my batch up early and come back for the filling?
No problem. My car won't start so I'm stuck here for the day anyway :P
Sweeet !
The cup is polished.
Brush your teeth for the photo-shoot lads.
working til 9 so i'll be over closer to 9:30 if that's cool
See you then 8)
Quote from: Garry on May 09, 2014, 09:41:54 AM
My car won't start so I'm stuck here for the day anyway :P
Now I'm after seizing the engine in the lawnmower :( I hope that's all my bad omens for today >:D
What about that mechanic next door to you?
You ply him with beer and he fixes your...
woohoo, half day. See you earlier!
Quote from: johnrm on May 09, 2014, 03:10:45 PM
What about that mechanic next door to you?
You ply him with beer and he fixes your...
The tailor's coat is always torn!
Anyway, the car's nearly fixed. I think! Lawnmower is dead though :( Cheque book time :x
Super night lads, job done with ease and some very nice beer, and the right company always helps!
LE left the 2 urthel dregs behind.
Someone swiped the 2 bottles of cider.
Oh, 2 and 2...
Nice work lads. That set up for siphoning into the barrel was excellent garry, and putting it on the casters was pure genius!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/10/3y8u8ede.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/10/8yhahura.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/10/y6adyjum.jpg)
Trish looked - 'The Elf on the Shelf' she said.
So thats how to get pediococcus into a cask. Suspend a pair of feet (ped in latin) over the bung-hole ???
this is the internet. you'll find feet doing worse things to bungholes if you look long enough.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/11/4ynudu3u.jpg)
The elf was taking photos too 😛
Looks good, apologies for not being there- did we have enough to fill the barrel?
We're shy 1 batch, Dara is planning on heading over tomorrow.
Mr Hippy and I both have stuff top it if necessary.
Quote from: Tube on May 10, 2014, 09:20:13 PM
That's a great shed. Bit messy downstairs, bit the pointing on the blockwork is exceptional.
You're right there, they f%cking wrecked the place 😛.
As for the blockwork, you've a good eye. It's a hell of a lot tastier than the blockwork on my house!
so move into the shed
Dara just deposited his sample :)
We've got 45mm of headspace. I'll work out how many litres that is tomorrow when I'm at the computer. We could probably top it up with a few tins of Dutch Gold?
Must. Resist. Crude. Joke!!!
fill it up with water straight from the kettle. in 220liters it wont make any real difference
By my calculations, we are short 5.3 litres.
Also, from my measurements, the total volume of the barrel is working out at 195 litres.
No water or Dutch Gold - Thou shalt taint thy brew.
Mr Heppy has something that will fill the gap, I'll sort it with him.
Mr Heppy? Another vowel please, Carol :P
Quote from: johnrm on May 12, 2014, 10:10:36 AM
No water or Dutch Gold - Thou shalt taint thy brew.
Mr Heppy has something that will fill the gap, I'll sort it with him.
+1, think it would be a shame to dilute it down, after going to so much trouble to make a nice strong beer.
John topped up the barrel yesterday afternoon with a very nice smelling ESB that he had brewing (on the same yeast). It took about 4 litres to tickle the arse of the bung :)
All we need now is a little patience......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErvgV4P6Fzc
How much patience are we talking about here? I remember reading that those old style beers used to be left in the barrel for at least a year, are we leaving it that long?
At the moment the plan is to empty it in October. This might change? There's plenty of time to discuss it.
October sounds appropriate for an October beer :D
There were talks of dropping a lager into it next.
Followed by a sour of some sort.
Glad to hear you were able to get it sorted lads and apologies for not being able to help. I've been a bit busy with other stuff the last couple of days.
Quote from: johnrm on May 15, 2014, 01:17:33 PM
There were talks of dropping a lager into it next.
Followed by a sour of some sort.
There was talk of a lager, but I wouldn't be that keen, as it's not going to be that different to what we just put in there. Lets discuss the options at the next meet.
I was flicking through Radical Brewing and noticed that some of the numbers did not stack up.
A quick search and I found this...
http://www.radicalbrewing.com/rberrat.html
The suggested malt bill was 4.5kg - should have been 7kg
In fact about 30 of the recipes (about quarter) in Radical Brewing have errors.
So why do so many people like this book so much?
I never raved about it, but errors aside its pretty good.
You can have a loan of my copy at the next meet, then you can decide for yourself.
It's definitely one of my favorites. It focuses on the fun of homebrewing (and beer in general) without getting too bothered with the technical stuff.
All about the coke and hookers?
Sure I'll have a peek off it anyway john, cheers :)
Raising this from the dead.
The October Ale is going to rebrew.