Cider: what to do with Ciderheads juice?

[RichC]

Just found Ciderheads group but this evening so I'm seriousy considering buying 25L of juice but need to make my mind up quickly. I dont want to ferment using natural yeasts so what yeast would a cidermaker normally use? Also, everyone seems to use campden tablets, I think to kill wild yeasts, can someone explain please? Do I really need campden and how soon after delivery do I need to use it?


Thanks

[Ciderhead]

Just found Ciderheads group but this evening so I'm seriousy considering buying 25L of juice but need to make my mind up quickly. I dont want to ferment using natural yeasts so what yeast would a cidermaker normally use? Also, everyone seems to use campden tablets, I think to kill wild yeasts, can someone explain please? Do I really need campden and how soon after delivery do I need to use it?


Thanks

Ok Lars I was just about to post something to start this debate. Page 2 of the Irish Cider juice post has links to brewing cider
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1351114855/15

As with Beers check your gravity min of 1.040, you can bump it up with caster sugar, but I try not to make rocket fuel.   

Now for the debate;
Traditionally nothing is added to the apple juice to turn it into cider, as the natural yeasts in the apples will turn the sugars into alcohol.
However this can be risky I always use a Campden Tablet(2 crushed per 5 Gal) left for 48hrs, Murderer I hear you cry  This has the advantage of subduing some wild yeasts and bacteria and reduces spoilage in the cider.

Then by either adding a general purpose wine(some use champagne) or I use Youngs cider yeast.
Youngs cider yeast is actually a champagne yeast and will ferment at low temperatures (e.g. 10C).
Keep the fermenting cider at a steady temperature of around 15-18 Degrees, the cooler the better.

Fermentation can take anything from 10 days to 10 weeks.Cider is best fermented at low temperatures anyway, in order not to lose the aromas from the apples and the yeast.

I also historically used pectic enzyme to clear, just before the yeast, (I read somewhere it needs 20 Degrees for 12 hours) but you do lose something in the flavour, even though some prefer crystal clear. (This year one with and one without)
doesn't like "the muddy stuff"

It should ferment down to 1.0 or even below not like some of the Muntons Autumn Blush kits I did a couple of years back which were all done at 1.014

Anybody else got some words of wisdom or personal experience for Lars

[newToBrew]

no words of wisdom - but a few more q's to add - Don't mind cloudy cider -have ayoungs cider yeast - so gonna fling that in - should I get some nutrient for it ? - intend on leaving it sit for a few months
also have the yeast packet with a while - was in a box in the shed - would the frosty weather of late have effected it ? (its well within its use by date)

[RichC]

Think I'll be adding myself to the list. Anyone ever try the stovetop pasteurisation technique over on hbt?

[Ciderhead]

no words of wisdom - but a few more q's to add - Don't mind cloudy cider -have ayoungs cider yeast - so gonna fling that in - should I get some nutrient for it ? - intend on leaving it sit for a few months
also have the yeast packet with a while - was in a box in the shed - would the frosty weather of late have effected it ? (its well within its use by date)

Yeast will be fine as long a its not been compromised and you can hear it rustle, it isn't wet?
I always carry spares 
My experience is that nutrient isn't necessary and i would only ever consider if I saw my fermentation stall, which has never happened.
My longest cider ferment was 4 weeks, and 6 months in the bottle, I've gotta stop now I'm salivating [smiley=beer.gif]   

[Ciderhead]

Think I'll be adding myself to the list. Anyone ever try the stovetop pasteurisation technique over on hbt?

Whats that?
I did pasteurise 10 bottles of juice with swingtops for half and hour in a big Stainless pot for juice for the kids once, it was a right PITA as temp had to be over 75 but not greater than 90.

[RichC]

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/

[newToBrew]

Yeast will be fine as long a its not been compromised and you can hear it rustle, it isn't wet?

Dry as a bone - sealed in the packet in a bag in a box -in a shed ! - I was just afraid that the Low Temps in the Shed over recent time may have done something to it

[Ciderhead]

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/

Very Good, similar to cold crashing then?
I would probably be a bit nervous about putting sealed bottles into hot water.

[Eoin]

Ok, I'm starting to panic now!

What would I need to make a medium dry cider from this juice? I'll buy whatever I don't have. TIA.

Pasteurise it and backsweeten. The proper way to do it is a method called "Keeving" or "cuivage" as the French would call it, but you need the pulp to still be present to form the "chapeau brun" which is the brown cap that is formed on top of the apple juice as part of the cuivage process. If you search there is a good site out there on the subject, but you'll need to get the juice right from source with some apple solids in it still to do this method.

[Ciderhead]

Ok, I'm starting to panic now!

What would I need to make a medium dry cider from this juice? I'll buy whatever I don't have. TIA.

Don't panic 
Have a quick read of that link on page 2 of the post on the buying page
When making cider you need a mix of sweet and tart apples to get get a balance between medium and Dry, too sweet in the mix and its to dry.
At this stage all you need is yeast and campden tablets or you can risk it and let it go itself.
We are getting a blend which will ferment out to Medium-Dry. If its too dry as Eoin says you can easily backsweeten.

[Ciderhead]

I would probably be a bit nervous about putting sealed bottles into hot water.

Tunnel pasteurisers spray capped bottles with hot water. Quite common. Galway Hooker is pasteurised this way for example.

Not using my Missus stove they don't!

[Eoin]

I just put on a lidl cider the other day, 25l of the non-cloudy juice, a large mug of very strong tea, a kilo of spraymalt and 1.5kg of honey. I've got some stevia powder there and am thinking of sweetening with that when I get that far. I can't stand normal sweeteners but Stevia should be ok, once not too much of the menthol type taste comes through. I'll let you know.

[Ciderhead]

I just put on a lidl cider the other day, 25l of the non-cloudy juice, a large mug of very strong tea, a kilo of spraymalt and 1.5kg of honey. I've got some stevia powder there and am thinking of sweetening with that when I get that far. I can't stand normal sweeteners but Stevia should be ok, once not too much of the menthol type taste comes through. I'll let you know.

Wow never heard of Stevia, nice one I have to go looking for it now, I tended to just use splenda on the few drinkers that prefer my medium-dry,  sweet or if I knew it was well finished added apple juice which defeats the purpose and dilutes the % .
With the spraymalt will you not get malty flavours coming through?

[Eoin]

I just put on a lidl cider the other day, 25l of the non-cloudy juice, a large mug of very strong tea, a kilo of spraymalt and 1.5kg of honey. I've got some stevia powder there and am thinking of sweetening with that when I get that far. I can't stand normal sweeteners but Stevia should be ok, once not too much of the menthol type taste comes through. I'll let you know.

Wow never heard of Stevia, nice one I have to go looking for it now, I tended to just use splenda on the few drinkers that prefer my medium-dry,  sweet or if I knew it was well finished added apple juice which defeats the purpose and dilutes the % .
With the spraymalt will you not get malty flavours coming through?

You don't get a lot with 1kg malt, the main reason for it is to leave some unfermentables so it won't be so dry. I make it a bit stronger normally to allow for the dilution, hence the honey and spraymalt.