Title: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: helmet on October 14, 2016, 06:27:07 PM
Post by: helmet on October 14, 2016, 06:27:07 PM
I usually overbuild my starters and keep 500ml in the fridge to kick off my next starter.
I've a Wyeast 1010 starter on the stirplate for the last 48 hours and there is zero activity.
Took the 500ml off a starter made back in July, haven't had any need for it since.
Is it a lost cause?
I've a Wyeast 1010 starter on the stirplate for the last 48 hours and there is zero activity.
Took the 500ml off a starter made back in July, haven't had any need for it since.
Is it a lost cause?
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Leann ull on October 14, 2016, 08:01:19 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 14, 2016, 08:01:19 PM
Normally only last 3-4 weeks absolute max in a fridge, its dead, surprised you've been getting away with it longer than that tbh, I sling anything older than a couple of weeks, you need to get into slanting.
Title: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: molc on October 14, 2016, 08:14:19 PM
Post by: molc on October 14, 2016, 08:14:19 PM
I regularly build up starters I've kept for 3- 4 months. I usually decant the supernatent and pop it back in the vial, filled to the brim.
However, I usually have activity within 24 hours on the stirplate, with the sample starting to turn a cream colour. Takes normally an extra day for it to finish, but no difference in pitch.
However, I usually have activity within 24 hours on the stirplate, with the sample starting to turn a cream colour. Takes normally an extra day for it to finish, but no difference in pitch.
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: helmet on October 14, 2016, 08:18:49 PM
Post by: helmet on October 14, 2016, 08:18:49 PM
Quote from: molc on October 14, 2016, 08:14:19 PMThat's been my experience as well. It's never been a problem before this.
I regularly build up starters I've kept for 3- 4 months. I usually decant the supernatent and pop it back in the vial, filled to the brim.
However, I usually have activity within 24 hours on the stirplate, with the sample starting to turn a cream colour. Takes normally an extra day for it to finish, but no difference in pitch.
Anyway, I've chucked it and have changed the brewday plan, have a 1056 starter on the plate now, so it's a pale ale instead if a wheat for the weekend!
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: molc on October 14, 2016, 08:21:08 PM
Post by: molc on October 14, 2016, 08:21:08 PM
One thing is that its much colder now than in the summer. Maybe the starter is just slow to build as a result? New starter will confirm/debunk that theory at least.
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: helmet on October 14, 2016, 08:28:31 PM
Post by: helmet on October 14, 2016, 08:28:31 PM
Quote from: molc on October 14, 2016, 08:21:08 PMYeah, I moved the plate into the kitchen after 12 hours of no activity, it's in or around 19° all day, still no joy. I'll let you know how the 1056 goes. Might look into slants some time in the future.
One thing is that its much colder now than in the summer. Maybe the starter is just slow to build as a result? New starter will confirm/debunk that theory at least.
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Bubbles on October 14, 2016, 08:28:40 PM
Post by: Bubbles on October 14, 2016, 08:28:40 PM
How do you aerate your starters?
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: helmet on October 14, 2016, 08:32:21 PM
Post by: helmet on October 14, 2016, 08:32:21 PM
Quote from: Bubbles on October 14, 2016, 08:28:40 PMShake the life out of the wort in the stockpot, a whole lot if splashing passing through a funnel into the flask and then continuous stirring with a loose tinfoil cap.
How do you aerate your starters?
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Bubbles on October 14, 2016, 10:51:29 PM
Post by: Bubbles on October 14, 2016, 10:51:29 PM
Ok fair enough. I've had problems with starters in the past due to lack of aeration..
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Leann ull on October 14, 2016, 11:08:40 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 14, 2016, 11:08:40 PM
About 1/2 way down, more than 4 weeks and you expose wort to all sorts of complications.
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/yeast-storage-and-maintenance-0
http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/yeast-storage-and-maintenance-0
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 04:30:16 PM
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 04:30:16 PM
18 hours later and brewday is saved!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161015/07b69a4a42bf358b80951de631eea543.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161015/07b69a4a42bf358b80951de631eea543.jpg)
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: DEMPSEY on October 15, 2016, 06:00:48 PM
Post by: DEMPSEY on October 15, 2016, 06:00:48 PM
That the 1056 kicking off.
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 06:06:44 PM
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 06:06:44 PM
Quote from: DEMPSEY on October 15, 2016, 06:00:48 PMIt is. Coming along nicely. It'll be closer to 24 hours by the time I pitch. Going to have to pitch the whole lot though, no time for the fridge.
That the 1056 kicking off.
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Leann ull on October 15, 2016, 06:24:16 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 15, 2016, 06:24:16 PM
Looks ok next time try a smaller step if you have old yeast and then up to 2l as it will put less stress on yeast and you'll avoid classic off flavours from underpitching.
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 06:35:42 PM
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 06:35:42 PM
Quote from: CH on October 15, 2016, 06:24:16 PMSound advice, thanks.
Looks ok next time try a smaller step if you have old yeast and then up to 2l as it will put less stress on yeast and you'll avoid classic off flavours from underpitching.
Title: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Leann ull on October 15, 2016, 06:58:38 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 15, 2016, 06:58:38 PM
Sorry should have said a wiser brewer than me told me that years ago as I was chucking the old expired vials, with clearly low viability of white labs into 2L and was getting nasty final beers
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 07:16:04 PM
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 07:16:04 PM
Quote from: CH on October 15, 2016, 06:58:38 PMWhen you say a smaller step, 500ml?
Sorry should have said a wiser brewer than me told me that years ago as I was chucking the old expired vials, with clearly low viability of white labs into 2L and was getting nasty final beers
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: delzep on October 15, 2016, 07:39:18 PM
Post by: delzep on October 15, 2016, 07:39:18 PM
200ml I would do then up to 1l
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 07:45:14 PM
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 07:45:14 PM
Quote from: delzep on October 15, 2016, 07:39:18 PMThanks.
200ml I would do then up to 1l
Job done for today anyway!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161015/8a06ae4b63ce73cf8531a495762a8847.jpg)
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Leann ull on October 15, 2016, 08:31:38 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 15, 2016, 08:31:38 PM
you can step up to x10 but I have only ever done x5, as Delzep says 500ml would be ideal.
nice set up btw tip, get yourself one of those 40W conservatory heaters at some stage you can pick them up for about €15-20.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WALL-MOUNTED-CONSERVATORY-HEATER-1FT-2FT-OR-4FT-TUBULAR-DAMP-ROOM-PORCH-HEATER-/201451748240?var=&hash=item2ee775bb90:m:m9aKaOzjfh57QFL6MVHoBXQ
In mid winter when shed is 2Degrees I have to supplement my 40W in the red neck chamber with a heat belt to get it to 19 but I just suspend the heat belt in the air.
Heat belts aren't great for glass carboys, too much localised heat and instances in the US cracking them apparently.
https://www.amazon.com/FermWrap-40-Watt-Fermentation-Heater/dp/B0064O92WS, I have one, they are faffy to strap on.
nice set up btw tip, get yourself one of those 40W conservatory heaters at some stage you can pick them up for about €15-20.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WALL-MOUNTED-CONSERVATORY-HEATER-1FT-2FT-OR-4FT-TUBULAR-DAMP-ROOM-PORCH-HEATER-/201451748240?var=&hash=item2ee775bb90:m:m9aKaOzjfh57QFL6MVHoBXQ
In mid winter when shed is 2Degrees I have to supplement my 40W in the red neck chamber with a heat belt to get it to 19 but I just suspend the heat belt in the air.
Heat belts aren't great for glass carboys, too much localised heat and instances in the US cracking them apparently.
https://www.amazon.com/FermWrap-40-Watt-Fermentation-Heater/dp/B0064O92WS, I have one, they are faffy to strap on.
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 08:52:17 PM
Post by: helmet on October 15, 2016, 08:52:17 PM
Quote from: CH on October 15, 2016, 08:31:38 PMCheers, like the look of the heater tube, especially with sterling tanking!
you can step up to x10 but I have only ever done x5, as Delzep says 500ml would be ideal.
nice set up btw tip, get yourself one of those 40W conservatory heaters at some stage you can pick them up for about €15-20.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WALL-MOUNTED-CONSERVATORY-HEATER-1FT-2FT-OR-4FT-TUBULAR-DAMP-ROOM-PORCH-HEATER-/201451748240?var=&hash=item2ee775bb90:m:m9aKaOzjfh57QFL6MVHoBXQ
In mid winter when shed is 2Degrees I have to supplement my 40W in the red neck chamber with a heat belt to get it to 19 but I just suspend the heat belt in the air.
Heat belts aren't great for glass carboys, too much localised heat and instances in the US cracking them apparently.
https://www.amazon.com/FermWrap-40-Watt-Fermentation-Heater/dp/B0064O92WS, I have one, they are faffy to strap on.
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Leann ull on October 15, 2016, 09:01:53 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 15, 2016, 09:01:53 PM
yep all my chambers have one.
Just make sure you only use the fridge or the heater as otherwise they fight each other, so depending where ambient is, this time of the year in my shed its only heater.
I am spoilt in that the brewpi on one of my fridges will regulate hot or cold and the fan other wise I just have it working off one or the other.
Any electrical engineers out there advise how you can run 1 item, i.e. fan from either a live fridge or live heater to save installing a second fan?
Just make sure you only use the fridge or the heater as otherwise they fight each other, so depending where ambient is, this time of the year in my shed its only heater.
I am spoilt in that the brewpi on one of my fridges will regulate hot or cold and the fan other wise I just have it working off one or the other.
Any electrical engineers out there advise how you can run 1 item, i.e. fan from either a live fridge or live heater to save installing a second fan?
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: molc on October 15, 2016, 09:42:39 PM
Post by: molc on October 15, 2016, 09:42:39 PM
With the brewpi, you could just wire the +12 relay signal for both hot and cold to the fan so it turns on when either signal is active?
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Leann ull on October 15, 2016, 10:39:30 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 15, 2016, 10:39:30 PM
yep thats what I have, was wondering was there a simpler solution without spending money on a brewpi
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Slev on October 16, 2016, 02:23:19 AM
Post by: Slev on October 16, 2016, 02:23:19 AM
Quote from: CH on October 15, 2016, 06:24:16 PM
Looks ok next time try a smaller step if you have old yeast and then up to 2l as it will put less stress on yeast and you'll avoid classic off flavours from underpitching.
What are the classic off flavours?
Title: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: pob on October 16, 2016, 09:23:09 AM
Post by: pob on October 16, 2016, 09:23:09 AM
Quote from: CH on October 15, 2016, 09:01:53 PM
Any electrical engineers out there advise how you can run 1 item, i.e. fan from either a live fridge or live heater to save installing a second fan?
a 90mm 230-240V AC version? (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Square-Axial-Blower-Ventilator-220-240V/dp/B00GYSVUP6)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161016/29d38752d01d74d8524e7ccc453f696d.jpg)
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Leann ull on October 16, 2016, 12:17:30 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 16, 2016, 12:17:30 PM
Safer with 12v version Pob lots of condensation liquids
Just bought another 2 off a chinaman last night
Just bought another 2 off a chinaman last night
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Leann ull on October 16, 2016, 12:28:59 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 16, 2016, 12:28:59 PM
Quote from: Slev on October 16, 2016, 02:23:19 AMQuote from: CH on October 15, 2016, 06:24:16 PM
Looks ok next time try a smaller step if you have old yeast and then up to 2l as it will put less stress on yeast and you'll avoid classic off flavours from underpitching.
What are the classic off flavours?
Search "brothel" it should bring you to the right thread
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Leann ull on October 16, 2016, 12:29:58 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 16, 2016, 12:29:58 PM
Just don't get caught by the missus doing it
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Leann ull on October 16, 2016, 03:58:48 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 16, 2016, 03:58:48 PM
actually word was brothel
If you think about it my putting a small quantity of yeast in a "rich" food environment its gonna be overwhelmed and stressed
straight off the Wyeast site
A low pitch rate can lead to:
Excess levels of diacetyl
Increase in higher/fusel alcohol formation
Increase in ester formation
Increase in volatile sulfur compounds
High terminal gravities
Stuck fermentations
Increased risk of infection
High pitch rates can lead to:
Very low ester production
Very fast fermentations
Thin or lacking body/mouthfeel
Autolysis (Yeasty flavors due to lysing of cells)
If you think about it my putting a small quantity of yeast in a "rich" food environment its gonna be overwhelmed and stressed
straight off the Wyeast site
A low pitch rate can lead to:
Excess levels of diacetyl
Increase in higher/fusel alcohol formation
Increase in ester formation
Increase in volatile sulfur compounds
High terminal gravities
Stuck fermentations
Increased risk of infection
High pitch rates can lead to:
Very low ester production
Very fast fermentations
Thin or lacking body/mouthfeel
Autolysis (Yeasty flavors due to lysing of cells)
Title: Re: Yeast Starter No Action
Post by: Slev on October 16, 2016, 08:44:32 PM
Post by: Slev on October 16, 2016, 08:44:32 PM
Quote from: CH on October 16, 2016, 12:28:59 PMQuote from: Slev on October 16, 2016, 02:23:19 AMQuote from: CH on October 15, 2016, 06:24:16 PM
Looks ok next time try a smaller step if you have old yeast and then up to 2l as it will put less stress on yeast and you'll avoid classic off flavours from underpitching.
What are the classic off flavours?
Search "brothel" it should bring you to the right thread
Ha - have to say, I didn't know where this was taking me! So many potential pit falls