National Homebrew Club Ireland

General Discussions => The Food Board => Topic started by: irish_goat on February 03, 2016, 09:30:59 PM

Title: Coffee
Post by: irish_goat on February 03, 2016, 09:30:59 PM
Any coffee enthusiasts here?

I've gotten a coffee machine for my birthday and went out to buy fresh coffee and was a bit overwhelmed by the selection in Tesco. I was just looking for a standard coffee shop blend but there was the guts of 40 different blends. Went with a local roasters strength 4 blend and it's ok just. Reading online I see it's a good idea to get a grinder as well so that'll be the next purchase I think and then I'll get whole beans.

So, any recommendations for coffee bean brands?
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: ronniedeb on February 03, 2016, 09:41:51 PM
I used to get Segafreddo and Lavazza beans etc., but started buying from DiscountCoffee.ie and havent looked back. They have some Robusta heavy Espresso blends, that are particularly cheap if you like you're coffee a little bitter and earthy. Also do single origin and fairtrade beans if I remember correctly. What machine did you get?
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: irish_goat on February 03, 2016, 09:58:50 PM
It's just a Dualit Xpress (https://www.dualit.com/products/xpress). I'll only be making espresso or americanos so I think it should do the job fine for now. Will take a look at Discount Coffee cheers.
Title: Coffee
Post by: Leann ull on February 03, 2016, 10:56:37 PM
Sorry to bust your thread but not unrelated anyone recommend a bean to cup machine, I'm reading reviews and some of the cheaper ones are getting slated on Amazon

On topic I thought the supermarkets rated 1-5 5 being treacle?
I use the ground Costa or lavazza, silver Tin red stripe.
If your getting pissy coffee on a 4 strength put more in, temp of water very important too for optimal oil extraction, gonna say something stupid now, did you read the manual that came with machine
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: irish_goat on February 03, 2016, 11:17:07 PM
I fill the filter basket as much as I can. I think it is the blend which is just a bit on the bland side really. Don't have any control over the water temperature either though, I fill it with cold water, push a button and coffee comes out.  :P
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: armedcor on February 03, 2016, 11:55:51 PM
Coffee is almost like brewing, one of the most important aspects is water to coffee ratio. It's only since I started weighing my coffee beans and only grinding what I need at a time have I really started to enjoy my homemade coffee.

A problem with a lot of supermarket coffee is that it's been sitting in packets for months on end maybe even in the foil bag it can get pretty bad. Think of it like using old hops.

For a proper bean to cup espresso machine you're looking a quite a chunk of cash. The cheaper machines just don't really cut it tbh. Wildly fluctuating water temps, not enough pressure etc etc. People go to the trouble of wiring in pids to their espresso machines and everything which might seem wild to most people but when you look at some of the systems us homebrewers come up with I totally understand.

Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: dcalnan on February 04, 2016, 12:24:16 AM
@irish goat Most of the supermarket coffees on offer arent suitable for using in an espresso machine (except lavazza). the coffee isn't ground fine enough to offer the proper resistance to the water, and it can under extract an espresso. Buying it from a coffee shop, they'll be able to grind it to suit an espresso machine, but with ground coffee it doesn't stay fresh for long, unless it's stored in an dark, airtight container, and not the fridge/freezer as people have been told in the past. The best option is to get a grinder for your machine, if you're only doing a few cups a day something like a hario skerton (http://www.coffeeshop.ie/Hario-Skerton-Coffee-Mill) is really nice and easy to use, it's a hand grinder, but more importantly it's a conical burr grinder which makes the  ground coffee much more consistant, blade grinders chop and cut the coffee, so it's not as precise. But if you want a free blade grinder, I got one from work just lying around at home and it was only used once.

@CH I was working for delonghi for the past few months and can highly recommend their bean to cup machines, the one I was using was the magnifica s, but the normal magnifica was good as well, according to people who bought it.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: johnrm on February 04, 2016, 07:38:21 AM
@IG, try patting the coffee so your coffee 'cake' is a little more compact. Not too much! You could blow something.
This will provide some of the resistance that DC mentioned.
This only applies to pressurised machines, either pump or steam, not filter.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: johnrm on February 04, 2016, 07:41:37 AM
I went back to basics for fun recently with a stove top Moka Pot.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: ronniedeb on February 04, 2016, 08:15:35 AM
I got my machine and grinder from here. http://www.best-of-italy.com/en-eur/i/coffee-grinders-325.html
They had an amazing deal at the time, several years ago. Buy 8kg of Segafreddo Coffee and get a Gaggia 8002 MDF Grinder for free. That seems to be gone now though. Worth keeping a look out for it's return though.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Eoin on February 04, 2016, 08:47:20 AM
I'm not a huge fan, but I drink good coffee a few times a year, but when I do then it's normally from Ariosa Coffee roasters in Ashbourne.

You can get him at the temple bar market and you can buy coffee on his website.

http://www.ariosacoffee.com/

His blends are really tasty.

I have no affiliation, I just knew the guy growing up who owns the company.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Fal on February 04, 2016, 08:53:09 AM
I've started buying my coffee from a roastery in limerick Ponaire.ie..buy Irish and all that!  I used to buy whole bean and grind them myself, but now it's easier to just buy a couple of 500g packets from them(instead of a 1kg or 2kg bag that's open to the air). You have to say what type of grind you want in the add note part of the shopping card so that they know what grind you want, otherwise you just get course grind.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: googoomuck on February 04, 2016, 08:59:27 AM
Badger and dodo coffee from Galway have some really tasty coffees. Their blackwater blend is a good starting point, light, fruity and refreshing.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: johnrm on February 04, 2016, 09:25:09 AM
Ahem, you mean Badger and Dodo from Fermoy.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: irish_goat on February 04, 2016, 09:42:40 AM
Quote from: johnrm on February 04, 2016, 07:41:37 AM
I went back to basics for fun recently with a stove top Moka Pot.

My housemate has one and the coffee is probably on par with what I get out of the machine.

Have always enjoyed 3FE and a few other independent coffee shops so I might look at buying beans from them someday soon.

Hario Skerton grinder looks like exactly what I'd need. Probably don't need an electric grinder as I'd only ever be making one or two cups at a go.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: imark on February 04, 2016, 09:47:20 AM
I've no experience with all in one machines but I can vouch for the quality of nice chrome Italian gear. This is my setup and has been in service daily for well over a decade with no problems.
Macap grinder and La Pavoni machine.
Manual, serviceable and reliable.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160204/8082e868b0ab3e0027ee923f69bb2784.jpg)
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: irish_goat on February 04, 2016, 09:55:40 AM
Something shiny is the eventual goal!  :P
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: googoomuck on February 04, 2016, 10:02:53 AM
Quote from: johnrm on February 04, 2016, 09:25:09 AM
Ahem, you mean Badger and Dodo from Fermoy.
Oops, mea culpa  
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Simon_ on February 04, 2016, 11:11:55 AM
Had a friend of a friend who's hobby was home roasting green coffee beans in a €10 lidl popcorn maker. 
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Leann ull on February 04, 2016, 11:41:30 AM
Cool, is there a forum
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: armedcor on February 04, 2016, 11:55:35 AM
Damn Imark I love those La Pavonis. I just started looking into what I would need to roast my own green beans and it seems like the popcorn popper is the go to for small batches!
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: pob on February 04, 2016, 11:58:34 AM
Quote from: ronniedeb on February 03, 2016, 09:41:51 PM
I used to get Segafreddo and Lavazza beans etc., but started buying from DiscountCoffee.ie and havent looked back. They have some Robusta heavy Espresso blends, that are particularly cheap if you like you're coffee a little bitter and earthy. Also do single origin and fairtrade beans if I remember correctly. What machine did you get?

Damn you, Ronniedeb!

Just spent last 10 mins on DiscountCoffee.ie, drooling & adding beans to the shopping cart, when I should be doing other things.

Good find, thanks.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Simon_ on February 04, 2016, 12:04:00 PM
Quote from: armedcor on February 04, 2016, 11:55:35 AM
it seems like the popcorn popper is the go to for small batches!
yeah but then you can upgrade to a 3 vessel stainless steel mega system with a control panel and flashy lights
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Bazza on February 04, 2016, 01:29:35 PM
Quote from: Simon_ on February 04, 2016, 11:11:55 AM
Had a friend of a friend who's hobby was home roasting green coffee beans in a €10 lidl popcorn maker.

I do that.

I buy the beans green from here:
http://ravecoffee.co.uk/collections/green-coffee-beans

I roast a week's worth at a time in an old Prima popcorn maker bought on EBay for 6 quid.

I then grind with an 80-quid Dualit burr grinder from Amazon, and force it through my trusty DeLonghi cheapo-ish espresso maker.


The Lowdown:

Does it work out cheaper than buying the beans roasted [and ground?] No.
Is it Less hassle than the above? Obviously not
Does the coffee taste nicer? Can't tell
How strangely does my kitchen smell for one evening in the week? Somewhat
Why do I still do it, then? Because I haven't stopped

I prepare my coffee in work with an Aeropress. People are starting to get used to the Aeropress; I only get quizzed about it 2-3 times a week, now. People have slowly started to take me into their confidence again.

So there you go.

-Barry

P.s. I prefer to use my own leaf tea in my own little personal teapot in work, so it turns out I'm actually probably a bit of a twat, all told.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: dcalnan on February 04, 2016, 01:40:25 PM
Not until you bring the popcorn/coffee roaster and coffee grinder in with you to work, I used to bring my aeropress and hario grinder into college with me.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Lochlannach on February 04, 2016, 02:43:33 PM
Pressure, temperature, getting size, tamp pressure...there's a lot of variables...

If you want a good overview of the whole thing and how to get the prefect shot try http://coffee-brewing-methods.com/how-to-brew-espresso-perfect-shot/ or https://www.home-barista.com/espresso-guide.html

I'm currently using coffees from Bell Lane in Mullingar.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Lochlannach on February 04, 2016, 02:45:24 PM
I grind coffee at home in the morning and use an aeropress at work. I could bring in a hand grinder but I haven't gone that far yet...
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Will_D on February 04, 2016, 10:52:38 PM
Ah Fekk it GB anyone?
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: cruiscinlan on February 04, 2016, 11:41:26 PM
Quote from: Bazza on February 04, 2016, 01:29:35 PM

I do that.

I buy the beans green from here:
http://ravecoffee.co.uk/collections/green-coffee-beans

I'm well jell of your popcorn maker! I can't find one for love nor money. I have to roast my own on a tray in the oven, the honk in the kitchen is what you can imagine.

Check out coffeebeanshop.co.uk they have a 30% off offer at the moment using 'newbean', which makes their green coffee very reasonable.

My set up is very simple though, cafetière and a percolator at home.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: LordEoin on February 04, 2016, 11:55:00 PM
by the way, dicsount coffee.ie also sell green beans that you can roast yourself:
http://www.discountcoffee.ie/coffee/coffee-beans/green-beans (http://www.discountcoffee.ie/coffee/coffee-beans/green-beans)

This was a pretty interesting clip on how to build BBQ roaster on jimmie and jamie's friday night feast, but I can't find the clip anywhere
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: armedcor on February 05, 2016, 12:04:18 PM
There's a popcorn popper on Amazon that people have been using.

Severin 117803 Popcorn Maker, White https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00008WV6Z/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_c-iTwb4EAKK93
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: LordEoin on February 05, 2016, 12:14:49 PM
i have one of those and it crossed my mind alright.
did the internet folks say it works?
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Bazza on February 05, 2016, 01:09:54 PM
Quote from: LordEoin on February 05, 2016, 12:14:49 PM
i have one of those and it crossed my mind alright.
did the internet folks say it works?

If the air vents are up the side of the chamber it should work fine.

Failing that, I used one of these for 2 years before it packed in:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006LE3C4A/ref=s9_zwish_hd_bw_b3rSbLD_g79_i3?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-4&pf_rd_r=0QZS7P8WAXQZ5HPZPNRX&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=663164307&pf_rd_i=3538361031

Only annoyance was that it cut out when it reached a certain heat, so works best with smaller amounts.

-Barry
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: molc on February 05, 2016, 02:29:58 PM
I get all my coffee at a micro roaster close to work - the coffee kiosk in Ballsbridge:
https://www.silverskincoffee.ie/

Pricey, but tasty.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: armedcor on February 05, 2016, 02:42:08 PM
Yea people have given it good reviews for roasting coffee only thing is the lid starts deforming over time with the heat but there's a few suggestions on the reviews that seem to fix that.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: krockett on February 06, 2016, 10:17:43 AM
Quote from: CH on February 03, 2016, 10:56:37 PM
Sorry to bust your thread but not unrelated anyone recommend a bean to cup machine, I'm reading reviews and some of the cheaper ones are getting slated on Amazon


I can recommend the Delonghi Magnifica.  We've had one for three years making about 6 cups a day and it just keeps going.

I used to grind my own beans, use an aeropress/ Hario v60 but the Delonghi makes it so easy and has proper crema (all of them - even the cheaper ones - have the same 15 bar pump).
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: imark on February 06, 2016, 10:33:12 AM
15bar pump? 15psi I'd say no?
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Will_D on February 06, 2016, 10:38:19 AM
A pukka expresso machine should run at 15 bar  :o
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: imark on February 06, 2016, 10:56:07 AM
Jesus that's over 200psi
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: krockett on February 06, 2016, 11:19:34 AM
Thought I got it wrong there but yeah looks like its 15 bar.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-4000-b-Magnifica-Coffee-Machine/product-reviews/B0036TDF6I

Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Bazza on February 10, 2016, 11:21:43 AM
Might have already been posted, but looks like a decent offer:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001EOMZ5E?redirect=true&ref_=pe_472371_98873821_pe_epc__1p_0_ti

-Barry
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Ryan on February 11, 2016, 01:30:09 PM
Established coffee shop in the cathedral quarter in belfast sell fresh 3fe coffee if your close by.  i used to buy from hasbean in the uk but they have / had a tie with 3fe and coffees are usually very close and all normally tasty.  hasbean do nice blends.  get a good grinder first and then worry about the rest.     i have a gaggia classic and a iberital grinder myself.  doesn't stop me wanting better setup but it does an ok coffee.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: johnrm on September 17, 2016, 09:33:51 AM
I bought the delonghi magnifica above and love it.
If anyone is looking for a good deal (40% off) on a coffee machine, limited number available, look here...
http://us10.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1c5c40473cada7f1702306dee&id=ca8e1c6786&e=049d923f2e
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: molc on September 17, 2016, 09:49:45 AM
This is mine. You have to tamp as well, but gives something similar to what I get at the coffee shop. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002S51RQG/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_awd_x_qnq3xbC0J5GPZ
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: LordEoin on September 17, 2016, 09:49:54 AM
must...step...away... from ... this... thread....
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: johnrm on September 17, 2016, 09:53:46 AM
I buy coffee beans from http://discountcoffee.ie (Thanks LE)
Great value on their own beans, reasonably priced on Lavazza.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: armedcor on September 17, 2016, 11:32:11 AM
What else are people using besides espresso makers? I'm constantly travelling so my coffee addiction is fuelled by my aeropress, my v60 brewer or a moka pot. If I get a few days at home I use my hario cold brewer.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: St. Fursey on September 21, 2016, 05:43:50 PM
Quote from: johnrm on September 17, 2016, 09:33:51 AM
I bought the delonghi magnifica above and love it.
If anyone is looking for a good deal (40% off) on a coffee machine, limited number available, look here...
http://us10.campaign-archive1.com/?u=1c5c40473cada7f1702306dee&id=ca8e1c6786&e=049d923f2e
Dammit John!
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: johnrm on September 21, 2016, 06:28:43 PM
You can get used units on Amazon too at a reduced price...
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: St. Fursey on September 21, 2016, 08:09:22 PM
Quote from: johnrm on September 21, 2016, 06:28:43 PM
You can get used units on Amazon too at a reduced price...
I just ordered one from the DeLonghi site. I really shouldn't have started reading the thread. This club will be the cause of my ruination

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Leann ull on September 21, 2016, 08:16:02 PM
This is the one I got, Americano, Espresso, with hot water or milk frother for cappuccino and 2 cups at a time
You can adjust the strength and the grind.it has a water filter and test kit to determine is your water hard or soft to preserve the pressure membrane I guess, but as I'm in soft water area no problems, but could get expensive for cartridges if you were in hard area.
I think a lot of these things are bean dependant so shit quality results in shit coffee or at least that's what I found so far.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160921/6efd7d18519d59627191d856a3fb0e4c.jpg)
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: johnrm on September 21, 2016, 09:00:04 PM
Café Porn!
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: DEMPSEY on September 21, 2016, 09:06:21 PM
If you order from amazon.com does it get bounced over to Amazon. Co.uk
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Leann ull on September 21, 2016, 09:55:30 PM
I had it delivered direct as Amazon was the seller at the time.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Will_D on September 21, 2016, 09:55:51 PM
Being a tight arsed/walleted Welsh git I love my €60 Lidl machine

https://www.google.ie/search?q=lidl+coffee+machine+2016&espv=2&biw=1213&bih=624&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjypYLpq6HPAhXKDcAKHQi5BQAQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=KQsZmGgli87SeM%3A (https://www.google.ie/search?q=lidl+coffee+machine+2016&espv=2&biw=1213&bih=624&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjypYLpq6HPAhXKDcAKHQi5BQAQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=KQsZmGgli87SeM%3A)
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Will_D on September 21, 2016, 10:05:25 PM
What I do is when the Espresso thermostat cuts out and the green light comes on at about 95C, I then press the steam button to go up to about 120C then revert to the espresso setting and get a great Creama!
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Kevco5 on September 22, 2016, 06:19:20 PM
€10 moka pot from woodies plus lavazza ground coffee, usually rossa but tesco have this stuff in new.
http://m.lavazza.co.uk/uk/at-home/blends/intenso.html
It's on offer now for €3, well tasty!
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: DEMPSEY on September 22, 2016, 08:26:13 PM
One of my favourite coffee's is Java Republic
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: molc on September 23, 2016, 08:48:32 AM
Silverskincoffee.ie Best coffee I've had outside if 3fe. Really nice guy as well.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: johnrm on November 24, 2016, 12:36:33 AM
25% off on their own brand coffee today only - Its good coffee!
http://www.discountcoffee.ie/
Code:PUR24
Free delivery on orders over EUR50

There will be an offer on Black Friday too, watch here...
http://www.discountcoffee.ie/featured
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Greg2013 on November 24, 2016, 12:49:07 AM
If anyone gets a line on Tim Hortons at a decent price give me a shout please,for reference a 1kg tin in Quebec is $18cad ;D
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: mr hoppy on November 24, 2016, 07:55:08 AM
It amazes me the way Timmy hohos is marketed as premium over here. It's anything but in its homeland.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Damien M on November 24, 2016, 09:42:52 AM
I have one of these and a bit procery than the DeLongi but Chrimbo is coming.
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/home-appliances/coffee-machines/1403459/sage-by-heston-blumenthal-the-barista-express-review
and ticks most of the boxes for me. Built in adjustable grinder, 15 bar pressure with pre infusion pressure to set the grains for the 15 bar and Steam wand ( still can't make a smily face though)

Regardless of where you get your coffee look for the Roasted on date all good ones have it and if it is more than 3 -5 weeks ago its getting old and as said before like grain, beans should be ground fressh to keep the flavour.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: bier on November 25, 2016, 01:25:40 AM
SuperValu stock a decent coffee from Waterford in their Irish artisan food section. Buy the beans all the time. Really like it.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: Greg2013 on November 25, 2016, 02:07:49 AM
Quote from: mr hoppy on November 24, 2016, 07:55:08 AM
It amazes me the way Timmy hohos is marketed as premium over here. It's anything but in its homeland.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't consider it premium tbh but it has to be the smoothest coffee i ever tasted,by smoothest i mean the one that upsets my stomach the least.My GF came over during the summer and brought a 1kg tin of timmay and several small 1lb packs,omg the Quebecois just love their Timmayyyyy,it may not be premium but you dare not tell them that lol,that and David's Tea.I have very little timmay left but i do have an almost full tin of some lush apple pie david's tea. ;D
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: pob on November 25, 2016, 12:25:44 PM
For that pressie to yourself, good prices on Delonghi Bean to Cup machines on Amazon atm:

ESAM4000 Black - £199
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41VMZHLremL.jpg) (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0036TDF6I/?tag=ho01f-21)


ESAM4200 Silver - £230
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41oaaPddVIL.jpg) (https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Magnifica-Espresso-Cappuccino-ESAM4200/dp/B001EOMZ5E/ref=sr_1_1?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1480076296&sr=1-1&keywords=delonghi)

normally €450-550 here

Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: johnrm on November 25, 2016, 01:01:51 PM
That is a fantastic deal on the black one.
I got the silver for GBP230 6 months ago, at the time the Black one was GBP250.
I makes a great coffee.
My only criticism is that the steamer is vertical and would be better if it was angled to create a whirlpool.
Title: Coffee
Post by: pob on November 25, 2016, 04:35:19 PM
& another, slightly cheaper model, Delonghi ESAM2800 Fully Automatic 1450W Bean to Cup Machine in Silver & Black, eBay £175

eBay £175(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/98kAAOSwe7BWzsZZ/s-l1600.jpg) (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141913014317?clk_rvr_id=1129252487590&rmvSB=true)

I got the 4200 Silver one (post above) about 3 yrs ago for €320, which was a great deal at the time RRP€500; use it at least 3/4 times a day & highly recommend it - top notch coffeemaker.
Title: Re: Coffee
Post by: pob on March 09, 2017, 11:29:55 AM
De'Longhi Magnifica Bean to Cup ESAM4200 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Magnifica-Espresso-Cappuccino-ESAM4200/dp/B001EOMZ5E/ref=gbps_img_s-3_95b6_44dde176?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_p=cba24898-a7db-4045-b379-eb99bf9295b6&pf_rd_s=slot-3&pf_rd_t=701&pf_rd_i=gb_main&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=1YVYFSY5RDDDHZTH5EN5) back down to £210 ~ €240 on Amazon today