I've been using plain white, but I read about Type 00 and all sorts of stuff that I can't actually get.
So, I'd like to use something that I can get if it's more appropriate than plain white.
Little Italy is where we get ours: http://littleitalyltd.com/collections/flour/products/62 (http://littleitalyltd.com/collections/flour/products/62)
It's just down the road from me here. Well worth a look, some decent ham and salami for toppings too if that's what you like.
The only other place of seen the OO flour is in Fallon and Byrne but they aren't price competitive!
Let me know when the pizzas are on and I'll make my way out leixlip!
Tesco do 00 flour it's labelled "pizza and pasta flour". It does make a difference. Otherwise use strong white flour. This is the recipe i use. its better fresh but can be frozen. The trick is to rest the dough twice.
- 650g Italian 00 flour (strong white flour)
- 7g sachet of yeast
- 2 tsp salt
- 25ml olive oil
- 50ml warm milk
- 325ml warm water
1 teaspoon white sugar (optional)
I just use plain white flour. I add some oat bran to lower the GI a bit!
This will make enough dough for 4 very thin bases. Or 3 normal bases.
300g white flour
75g oat bran
7g dried yeast (beer yeast works fine)
1/2 tsp salt
1/2 tsp castor sugar (or dextrose :P)
3 tbl spoons olive oil
200ml warm water
Mix it all up and knead for 10 to 15 min. Put in a large clean bowl and cover with cling film. Leave somewhere warm for an hour and it should double in size. Now divide up into 4 pieces. Roll out the base and freeze what you don't need.
I have Roma tip 00 that I bought in tesco maynooth
Whatever your mix I reckon half '00' and half plain/strong flour if you are making it in an electric oven. I've found all '00' makes it a bit too bready/dense. Half and half makes it nice and light. Apparently this is to do with the temps on an electric, 250degC whereas somewhere around 350-400 in a woodburning pizza oven which apparently the '00' needs. Have also found that it works better if kneaded then frozen, thawed and rolled.
Don't use water to clean the pizza stone either - saw your thread on them so presume you bought one. Just brush the burnt shite of them after use. The water permeates into the stone then cracks it later when heated. I bought two stones and both are in bits at this stage. They are thin ones, around 15mm thick.
Dara
Yeah, Tipo 00 (also use for pasta). Got it from the Italian place behind Powerscourt TownHouse (turn let as you go out the back)
Odlums strong white flour does the job. High protein. Cooking pizza is all about the oven IMO.
I've never used the 00 flour - I use half strong white flour and half plain flour for my bases, as per the River Cottage Bread handbook. (I'd highly recommend this volume to anyone interested in bread making..)
A crispy base is everything - for this I use a pre-heated perforated pizza pan and whack the oven up full to Gas 7. It gives good results, but obviously not as good as a commercial or wood-fired oven.
For me the toppings are everything. The trick is to get something really fresh onto it before the pizza is served. Fresh rocket leaves are my favourite. Take the pizza out and garnish with lots of proscuitto, rocket, shaved parmesan, black pepper and really expensive olive oil. Though my latest thing is a Tuscan salami called finochiona. It's spiked with fennel seeds. I love it along with a fennel-spiked tomato sauce, fresh red chilli, parmesan, rocket, garlic, and olive oil infused with lemon zest. It's the business.
Oh... and anyone who turns their nose up at a bit of good old "ham & pineapple" doesn't know what they're missing. Inauthentic it may be, but salty ham with sweet pineapple. Marriage parfait, as they say in Belgium. :-[ :)
I'm not sure what's in 00, but it's the gluten in Strong White that makes it great for pizza.
I've heard 00 mentioned before so I'm guessing it had a high gluten content also.
00 is the size of silk screen that the flour is passed through.
If you've ever been to Amsterdam you might have heard of zerozero, same reason.
Extra strong baker's flour. I had a 16kg bag from Odlums a while ago but it has gone up a lot in price. I've nearly finished my current 16kg bag which is Shackelton's, from a supplier in Cork. Great flour in my small experience. About €18 a bag.
I've also made pasta with it but 00 is better. So for me it's extra strong for bread and 00 for pasta.
Will I look into a group buy for flour? We might get a good price and it's hard to get in 16kg bags.
I can get Strong flour from the local Netpol Polski shop for 99 cent for 1kg typ 550 strong flour. So this stuff is cheaper again than the 16kg sack...... If the price of a group buy were to drop it substantially below that I'd be interested in a bag.
I will try the local Polski shops. That makes loads of sense. I wonder would the do a deal on a big lot?
No idea. I had Odlums first and then Shackeltons. Both extra strong. I was very happy with both. Do we grow enough wheat in this country to make flour? What brand is the flour from the Polish shop?
I use any strong flour and semolina from Asian shops.
recipe as follows
700g of strong flour
200g of semolina
1 tsp of garlic powder
1 tsp of salt
1 tsp of oregano
2 tbspn of olive oil
340 mls of water { this is not exact as flour can absorb more or less water}
1 dessert spn of sugar
30gm of fresh yeast { polish shop, found you need to add that amount if dried use 14g}
mix and kneed put in fridge overnight or let prove warm for two hours
and use with your fav toppings
I'm just eating a foccacia I mabe this morning using Polish flour, very nice too! It's definately different to the Skackeltons but not in a bad way. I think I will adjust the water in the recipe down a bit. At 99c/kilo it's great value too.
The make is " Mlyn Jaczkowice" Maka Pszenna TYP 500.
How do I get a photo up here?
Quote from: christhebrewer on July 04, 2013, 11:57:54 AM
I'm just eating a foccacia I mabe this morning using Polish flour, very nice too! It's definately different to the Skackeltons but not in a bad way. I think I will adjust the water in the recipe down a bit. At 99c/kilo it's great value too.
The make is " Mlyn Jaczkowice" Maka Pszenna TYP 500.
How do I get a photo up here?
Typ 550 is strong
Typ 500 is plain.
Just so you know for future reference, the typ 550 tends to be called Luksusowa.
I've also had success making bread with the typ 500 Poznanska flour which they recommend for making perogis and similar.
Quote from: christhebrewer on July 04, 2013, 11:57:54 AM
How do I get a photo up here?
Put photo on photobucket or imageshack and then post the IMG link here.
How do I include a photo in the post itself?
Dominos use a very strong heavily milled (20,000 particles per grain) and a shit load of gluten.........
I make it with strong bread flour, spent grain, beer yeast and patience.....
make dough onto Liathrodi.....250 grams small pizza 500 grams family pizza... keep in fridge 3 days and then take out to room tems and let rise and make ur pizza
its more in the maturation of the dough ( goes a lot more elastic with few days sitting in fridge) than the flour in the dough
Brendan, any tips for stretching out the dough and getting a nice round shape? My pizzas tend to be a bit oddly-shaped.
Even if I let the dough "relax" before shaping, I find it still springs back a lot..
Quote from: christhebrewer on July 04, 2013, 04:08:48 PM
How do I include a photo in the post itself?
Post the IMG link if you look at the top of the posting view you have insert image among the widgets, press on that and then insert the image link ending in jpg or whatever.
Quote from: Bubbles on July 04, 2013, 04:35:00 PM
Brendan, any tips for stretching out the dough and getting a nice round shape? My pizzas tend to be a bit oddly-shaped.
Even if I let the dough "relax" before shaping, I find it still springs back a lot..
[/quote
a little more cooking should make it less elastic and more plastic :)
Strength of flour is down to protein content. arount 10% is plain, 11% or better is strong. Paul Hollywood says 12-14%. I've been reading the packets lately and Odlums strong flour is 11%. The 00 from "dallari" I have here is 10.2%. The Polish I mentioned earlier is 11.5%.
The best pizza in Ireland is found in the Mama Mia Cafe in Bray (cue major argument!) and they use 00. Don't know what strength.
My Italian is pretty poor but I think he said they rise the dough in the fridge overnight. Doe that make sense to anyone? Will it rise in the fridge?
The also bake at 360c! I might have to modify my oven!
Quote from: christhebrewer on July 05, 2013, 01:58:33 PM
Strength of flour is down to protein content. arount 10% is plain, 11% or better is strong. Paul Hollywood says 12-14%. I've been reading the packets lately and Odlums strong flour is 11%. The 00 from "dallari" I have here is 10.2%. The Polish I mentioned earlier is 11.5%.
The best pizza in Ireland is found in the Mama Mia Cafe in Bray (cue major argument!) and they use 00. Don't know what strength.
My Italian is pretty poor but I think he said they rise the dough in the fridge overnight. Doe that make sense to anyone? Will it rise in the fridge?
The also bake at 360c! I might have to modify my oven!
Yep it's a slower rise in the fridge as just like with brewing it slows activity, it would seem it produces more flavour when risen slower, I suppose less phenols etc??
I mixed up a bread yesterday around six oclock. Usual recipe with Shackeltons extra strong and fresh yeast and stuck it in the fridge. This morning it looks good but only half risen. Maybe my fridge is too cold? It's in my kitchen fridge which has no controller on it (yet) so I don't know the temp. Anyone know what temp gives a good slow rise?
Good idea.
I just took that bread out of the fridge. It's not fully risen yet but I knocked it down and gave it a bit of a knead and I have to say it feels really good. Great stretch and strength. I'll let it warm up and rise again at 22c for the rest of the day and see how it is then.
I finished and baked that bread yesterday and it was good. I'm not convinced that the fridge made any real difference but I'm pretty sure I'm getting better bread with the extra strong flour than with the Polish flour.
The research continues.......
Quote from: christhebrewer on July 07, 2013, 09:12:54 AM
I finished and baked that bread yesterday and it was good. I'm not convinced that the fridge made any real difference but I'm pretty sure I'm getting better bread with the extra strong flour than with the Polish flour.
The research continues.......
Are you using fresh yeast? I find that really kicked my bread up a notch, just like with brewing, the flavours and the activity is much more than with dried.
I also get that in the Polish shop. They source all of their meat here and I use their butchers a lot cos they have some nice stuff that I don't have to touch when I want to drop it on the barbecue or grill, very well seasoned.
Also the closing of the flour mill does not seem to be an Irish only phenomenon.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/company-behind-hovis-bread-and-mr-kipling-to-close-flour-mill-600063.html
I've actually never used dried yeast so I can't comment. I have been using fresh yeast from superquin in Bray. 60c for 100g. I tried the fresh yeast from the Polish shop recently (45c/100g) and I find no difference. I have been using about 10g per 500g batch. Is that about right?
Quote from: christhebrewer on July 11, 2013, 01:56:05 PM
I've actually never used dried yeast so I can't comment. I have been using fresh yeast from superquin in Bray. 60c for 100g. I tried the fresh yeast from the Polish shop recently (45c/100g) and I find no difference. I have been using about 10g per 500g batch. Is that about right?
I use a much bigger amount myself. I tend to use 33g or so on a 500g loaf. The 500g loaf also ends up closer to 600 by the time the consistency is correct.
I just don't get fresh yeast anywhere else. When I visited the yeast company near Trinity there the guy told me that he no longer does it and to go to a Polish shop, so that's where I got the tip. I only have a few shops local to me so choice is limited.
That's a lot of yeast!
I cut back from nearly 20g down to 10g. theory is a slower rise (we heard that somewhere else?) seems to work well. It still rises in 3 hours at 20c.
Here's my basic recipie. For pizza etc, a bit wetter for focaccia.
500g Xsrong flour, 10g salt. mixed dry.
10g fresh yeast, 370g tap water. mixed with a fork or with a billy whiz. (400g water for focaccia)
mix the flour/salt and the yeast/water
add 40g olive oil bit by bit while kneading the dough in the bowl (it will be too wet to knead on the board) for 5 mins.
Put cling film over it and rise for 3 hours at 20c.
Tip it out onto a floured board and shape gently into whatever you want. Leave to rise a bit if you like and bake as hot as you can get the oven.
Eat.
Quote from: christhebrewer on July 12, 2013, 12:05:07 AM
That's a lot of yeast!
I cut back from nearly 20g down to 10g. theory is a slower rise (we heard that somewhere else?) seems to work well. It still rises in 3 hours at 20c.
Here's my basic recipie. For pizza etc, a bit wetter for focaccia.
500g Xsrong flour, 10g salt. mixed dry.
10g fresh yeast, 370g tap water. mixed with a fork or with a billy whiz. (400g water for focaccia)
mix the flour/salt and the yeast/water
add 40g olive oil bit by bit while kneading the dough in the bowl (it will be too wet to knead on the board) for 5 mins.
Put cling film over it and rise for 3 hours at 20c.
Tip it out onto a floured board and shape gently into whatever you want. Leave to rise a bit if you like and bake as hot as you can get the oven.
Eat.
I've actually started using that high amount for a fast rise, because I don't have the time to wait on a weeknight always for the dough to rise. If I have longer or the yeast is very fresh I'd drop it to about 20g, but I'd still use a lot.
I'll be making bread for this weekend this evening cos Friday is a late night for me normally.
Quote from: Il Tubo on July 12, 2013, 04:19:28 PM
That recipe is fairly similar to my own, but I leave out the salt.
Some pizza books recommend half baking the base in the oven for a few minutes before dressing it.
Has anyone done that?
I've seen it being done, but don't do it myself. You see it a lot on triple D.
I forgot the salt once and the bread was pretty crap. Bread needs salt.
I've never seen a pizza part baked but Marco in Campo di Fiori makes big square pizzas for selling in slices and he lets the dough rise for about half an hour before putting on the toppings. I've tried this and I like it but it's different to regular pizza.