Dublin Water Quality

[mabrungard]

Hello!

I'm on a quest for accurate information on Dublin water quality in the various service zones that the water company has set up.  I'm working on a presentation for the National Homebrewers Convention for the American Homebrewers Association and want to dispel some of the mis-information that is commonly quoted for Dublin water (really hard and alkaline).  With a significant part of the water supply coming off the Wicklow Mountains, that water is not always very hard or alkaline. 

Looking at the Dublin water service zone maps, I see that Guinness' brewery is supplied from the Stillorgan treatment works.  I'm assuming that their water may be less mineralized than the water coming out of the Leixlip works.  I noticed that someone published an old Leixlip report here: http://nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,916.0.html.  That report shows that some Dublin water can be relatively mineralized, but I want to figure out what Guinness is using. 

As many of you probably know, roasted malts are useful when dealing with an alkaline water supply.  They neutralize the alkalinity and produce fine beers.  But when you try to brew a stout or porter with a low alkalinity water, the mash pH is likely to drop too low for good wort production and taste.  If I'm not mistaken, the water supplied to Guinness is not very alkaline and they have to resort to special measures to create their stouts.  The Guinness Flavor Extract (GFE) is a separately-steeped roast malt concoction that the brewery adds to the main wort after mashing.  I understand the main wort is made with just pale malts . The low alkalinity water should provide good mash pH without the roast malts.  The GFE should be relatively acidic (tart) when steeped in low alkalinity water.  Combining the main wort and the GFE produces the sharp and refreshing Guinness taste.     

My quest is to find someone with the water quality information on the Stillorgan water.  In addition, it appears that Guinness is located right on the line and could also get their water from the Ballymore Eustace treatment works.  It would be great to have that water quality information too. 

I tried contacting the Dublin City Council Water Service, but that went nowhere.  I'm hoping I can elicit the help of one of you in tracking down that all-important water data that is needed for good brewing.  Of course, that information includes calcium, magnesium, sodium, sulfate, and chloride concentrations along with either alkalinity, carbonate, or bicarbonate concentrations.

I look forward to figuring this out with your help.

Thanks,

[DEMPSEY]

Welcome Martin,your points on Guinness water not being alkaline are correct. As I have being told they mash a pale ale and after add  in the GFE. This is made up using raw barley that has had the crap roasted out of it,1200 in colour,and then they have a specially made percolator to perc it in. After that they toss in some hop oil and off to the fermenter. We will try and get you some water numbers. You gave me a good laugh when I read you asked the Dublin council water dept for information,what would they know,probably told you it was wet,really wet.

[mabrungard]

Looking at the Dublin water service zone maps, I see that Guinness' brewery is supplied from the Stillorgan treatment works. 

Guinness have their own water supply, separate from the mains water. This bit is really important! Guinness head brewer said on Mega Factories on Discovery Channel that they need soft water for brewing, and that that's why they have their own supply.

Interesting tidbit!  This is not a surprise given the water woes of the city.  I suppose that they may take in Liffey River water or local groundwater and treat it with either RO or nanofiltration to get the mineral content down enough for their brewing. Thank you for that!

But prior to the advent of those fancy water treatments, they probably used either the Stillorgan or Ballymore sources and developed their current recipe and brewing practices with that water.  Can anyone help me with that water quality information?   

[Rossa]

My water is from the Dublin/Wicklow mountains. It is from the Ballyboden reservoir and the numbers I got from them a few years ago were these:

Sodium 12 mg/l Na
Sulphate 28 mg/l So4
Chloride13 mg/l Cl
Hardness 50 mg/l (Calcium & Magnesium Carbonate)

It is fairly soft 

The original brewery had a spring on it's land (or very close by) and the story goes that Arthur had to fight off the council with a pitch fork to stop taking the rights to it away from him. After that the brewery grew and I believe the water came from the Wicklow mountains. This water would have been similar to what I have above I would think.