Is Black IPA a fad?

[Will_D]

Common the lot of ye!

Have I not bored you all with tales of when I lived in Schwabia?? (Southern Germany)

Wheat is Weizen (Note the capital letter as its a noun)

White is weiβ (Note small w and the beta (this letter of the alphabet is called Eszett))

Hefe is German for Yeast. Dunkel is dark so no oxymoron here!

[donnchadhc]

@mr h, Where do you get the Raven, I couldn't see it in Bradleys the last night I visited 

Carry out Douglas Road has it, along with Jaipur and Chiron

[SlugTrap]

The weiss there is more to do with wheat that white, and non German speakers making mistakes with weizen/weiss etc.

Not how I heard it - "weiss" is descriptive of how wheat beers look, thus the name in German.

In German it's actually called Dunkel Weizen, as Tube says there are a lot of stupid things being done in the name of "weiss" all that means is white. It's Weizenbier, called weissbier also, but the style is Weizenbier and that means wheat beer.

Stupid or not, there are lots and lots and lots of German-made dark wheat beers labelled Dunkel (or Dunkle) Weiss.

[Dunkel]

Stupid or not, there are lots and lots and lots of German-made dark wheat beers labelled Dunkel (or Dunkle) Weiss.

You calling me stupid? 

"Dunkel is dark so no oxymoron here!"

You calling me a moron? 

I can see some boys need to get their legs broken 

[Eoin]

Stupid or not, there are lots and lots and lots of German-made dark wheat beers labelled Dunkel (or Dunkle) Weiss.

You calling me stupid? 

"Dunkel is dark so no oxymoron here!"

You calling me a moron? 

I can see some boys need to get their legs broken 

Apparently an 8 sided moron....

[Eoin]

The weiss there is more to do with wheat that white, and non German speakers making mistakes with weizen/weiss etc.

Not how I heard it - "weiss" is descriptive of how wheat beers look, thus the name in German.

In German it's actually called Dunkel Weizen, as Tube says there are a lot of stupid things being done in the name of "weiss" all that means is white. It's Weizenbier, called weissbier also, but the style is Weizenbier and that means wheat beer.

Stupid or not, there are lots and lots and lots of German-made dark wheat beers labelled Dunkel (or Dunkle) Weiss.

Do you speak German?

[mr hoppy]

For what it's worth I see that Franziskaner label their dunkel: Franziskaner Hefe-Weissbier Dunkel, on their German language website.

[Eoin]

For what it's worth I see that Franziskaner label their dunkel: Franziskaner Hefe-Weissbier Dunkel, on their German language website.

Yes, I saw the same.

That wasn't my question, I just wonder if someone quoting a German website actually understands what they've posted or if they are simply getting a hit in a foreign language and claiming that they understand it.

Weissbier to me is more of a colloquial name down South for a Weizen, but yeah it's on the labels so fair enough. Whilst I lived there (admittedly not down in the backward South) it was always referred to as Dunkel Weizen.

[SlugTrap]

That wasn't my question, I just wonder if someone quoting a German website actually understands what they've posted or if they are simply getting a hit in a foreign language and claiming that they understand it.

I only claim to know the history:
"Until the beginning of the 16th century... any beer that turned out to be pale was called Weissbier simply for its color ("weiss" means white in German, "bier" means beer). In the Middle Ages, therefore, it did not matter if a Weissbier was based on barley malt or wheat malt, nor did it matter if it was an ale or a lager. With the technological innovation of pale malt in the 19th century, the blond lagers, the Bavarian Helles and the Pils/Pilsener emerged. It was around that time that the name Weissbier became reserved exclusively for wheat ales."

Thus, nearly all the examples of Dunkelweizen in the BJCP guidelines use "weiss" not "weizen" in the name.

My original point (to get the thread back on topic) was that "Black IPA" is not a uniquely dumb label:
"Because of this odd history of the terms Weissbier and Weizenbier, Bavarians are quite comfortable with the seeming contradiction of naming a very dark Weizenbier a Schwarze Weisse (a "black white one").

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

Ah beer style naming. Bless.

While we are at it, anyone have a recipe for a Pale Stout ?

[Eoin]

I'll see your American website and raise you a German Wiki.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weizenbier

Als Weizenbier oder auch Weißbier (in Österreich, Altbayern und Mark Brandenburg) werden Biere bezeichnet, die mit Weizen hergestellt werden. Weitere Bezeichnungen sind Weizen, Weißes und Weiße. ,,Weizen" und ,,weiß" besitzen denselben etymologischen Ursprung. Weizenbiere werden meist obergärig gebraut.

Now my translation of that is the following:
Known as Weizenbier or also Weissbier (in Austria, old Bavaria and Mark Brandenburg).......You can run the rest through an online translator.


The Americans spread a lot of misinformation about the old country when they get to talking crap over a beer.


On a seperate note Will, the S-tzet or scharfes S was done away with in the Duden about 95, so it's no longer valid in official German. They wanted to standardise for the internet and international communications.

[Will_D]

On a seperate note Will, the S-tzet or scharfes S was done away with in the Duden about 95, so it's no longer valid in official German. They wanted to standardise for the internet and international communications.

Ah but I was talking about Schwabia. They have there own words and dialects that other germans cannot understand. They still miss the old King of the Schwabes (Schwabia ceased to exist in the early 1800s - they do have long memories)

So they are hardly going to follow some new dictat issued in 1995!

They even turned the telly off when germany was playing an international (TRUE)

[Eoin]

I lived almost ten years in Germany, up North. I have a few good friends from Schwabenland, woisste.

South Germans are funny...
Sent from my HTC One

[mr hoppy]

I don't speak German (and never claimed to, nor do I consider Horst Dornbusch to be an authority ): but the Collins online dictionary tells me

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/german-english/weiss?showCookiePolicy=true

weiss means white

and

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/german-english/weizen?showCookiePolicy=true

weizen means wheat.

Now, I appreciate that weissbier might mean wheat beer, and that weizen and weiss might be etymologically cognate (as are white and wheat) but weiss on it's own seems to be white, not wheat. Which to me, is not so different to Black IPA. IPA on it's own is a pale hoppy ale, but Black IPA is a dark hoppy ale. Same as a Dunkel Weissbier being a Dark wheat beer, not a dark white beer.

[SlugTrap]

I'll see your American website and raise you a German Wiki.
The Americans spread a lot of misinformation about the old country when they get to talking crap over a beer.

Sure - expect the website I cited is written by German breweries, which explains why it's partly in German.

Your source, meanwhile, mentions that Weizen is Weiss in Brandenburg, too - because it's not "Berliner Weizen," right?
So it sounds like "weiss" for wheat beers is definitely a valid thing.
But, you know, that could just be an American spreading misinformation.