cleaning / sanitising materials

[brenmurph]

as in my last post the residue is sodium carbonate if you let it dry without rinsing...I find it leaves a dusty film rather than a caked on layer Does anyone know if this sodium carbonate residue is good bad or anything else?

either way we should rinse after washing / sterilising, it rinses really easily.

[brenmurph]

Be aware if you have hard water the Oxi cleaners can drop a film of white stuff on your bottles if you soak them for extended periods, and it's hard to get off....which is why I was using Nitric acid in the bath that time, to remove a film of Oxi stuff from bottles.

Im guessing that might be a film of sodium carbonate residue blended with the calcium in the hard water, hard water is a pain in the A** so I use my softner system and also Reverse osmosis. The hard water leaves a film in ur kettle and your bath and everywhere else as well

[Eoin]

Be aware if you have hard water the Oxi cleaners can drop a film of white stuff on your bottles if you soak them for extended periods, and it's hard to get off....which is why I was using Nitric acid in the bath that time, to remove a film of Oxi stuff from bottles.

Im guessing that might be a film of sodium carbonate residue blended with the calcium in the hard water, hard water is a pain in the A** so I use my softner system and also Reverse osmosis. The hard water leaves a film in ur kettle and your bath and everywhere else as well

I have an issue with softened water in a domestic setting, it's not good for children. I remember in boarding school, the injury prone rugby playing brothers, they all broke bones easily, the chemistry teached used blame their water softener. Two of the brothers played Irish schools so it may also have had to do with the level they were playing, but none the less, I think it tastes bad too, I think it potentially also adds too much sodium to your diet.

[brenmurph]

Off topic a little but a decent diet will more than suffice mineral intake requirements, in fact water  is a very very poor source of minerals compared to fruit veg, grains or most other natural foods e.g nuts and seeds, therefore softened water has little or no impact on mineral status of an individual.
re taste, its subjective whether someone likes soft water or limey water, on the limey water topic, the minerals can harbour bacteria and other baddies and as far as I know the harder the water the more chlorine the council uses to treat it. Excess calcium can play a huge detrimental role in health despite the dieticians still tellin us to drink loads of milk, a much bigger issue is magnesium, potassium, phosphorus and lesser known silica and boron re bone health. Other than that weak bones are prevalent in meat eaters, high wheat intakers and smokers so theres a dozen or more major variables that determine bone quality in an athlete or non athlete not least overtraining which produces excess levels of the Catabolic hormone cortisol which destroys our body including bones.

hope this helps clarify the water thingy. Re athlethes / rugby players they need a diet rich in fruit, veg, nuts, seeds, roots, shoots and any water for performance and health, not raw liver, whole chickens, a dozen eggs for breakfast and protein powders, all combined will certainly reduce bone density through excess free nitrogen which acidifies the blood leaching calcium and other minerals from bone to buffer the acidic blood....result poor bones and illhealth
 
re sodium: water softener systems dont add salt to the water, it is flushed out of the beads in the regeneration cycle and does not signiicantly contribute salt to the water  My softened water reads 40-60 PPM which is low and only a fraction of that will be sodium the rest being a complex of other minerals.  My RO water reads zero PPM producing H2O only which is the most absorbable form of water particularly important for active sportspersons
regards Brendan

[Tucan]

I use peracetic acid at a 1% to 3% dilution as recommend by manufactures.
The price of a 25L drum is €50 so  @ 1% it works out at 2 cent per litre of sanitising fluid.
Needles to say when using any of these products you have to use the proper PPE and have a tub of water or running water to hand. I've seen firsthand the results of spilt acid on skin, it was like using a blowtorch on a wax figure. Something I never want to see again.

[brenmurph]

Gud man Tucan, another H&S story, we need to be careful when using acids no dought, with careful use theres no problem, bit like drinking, u can do it sensible or carelessy, boiling water can be as dangerous and we use it every day several times as day.

Where do u but the peracetic acid in 25 ltrs? interesting to know cos thats a tenner a gallon or thereabouts for the neat stuff. When Vincent comes back to me with recomendations it will be interesting to compare what everybody is using to put it all into context. He is aware that we homebrewers and that safety is paramount.

[Tucan]

I bought mine in an agricultural suppliers in Enniscorthy.
It should be available in any agg suppliers that deal with the dairy industry as they use it to sterilise their milking machines (no rinse and safe on stainless).

[Will_D]

Is this the stuff?



http://www.lidl.ie/cps/rde/xchg/SID-48604C7D-247E1B8D/lidl_ni_ie/hs.xsl/4179_29380.htm

Yep Thats what I noe use to clean/remove the brown stain from my plastic vessels.

After an hour steeping, I then rinse 3 times with tap water, then either use StarSan as a quick sanitiser or metabisulphite as a longer term storage solution.

StarSan does NOT work as a long time "keep it wet and sterile solution" I have seen some moulds growing in my plastic vessels put away for a week or 2!!

[imark]

Is this the stuff?



http://www.lidl.ie/cps/rde/xchg/SID-48604C7D-247E1B8D/lidl_ni_ie/hs.xsl/4179_29380.htm

StarSan does NOT work as a long time "keep it wet and sterile solution" I have seen some moulds growing in my plastic vessels put away for a week or 2!!

Same here. On the edge of my starsan bucket! Ph still below 3.

I always do the oxy/water/starsan routine on anything that's going to be part of the post boil process.

Starsan is marvellous stuff in my opinion and money well spent. A bottle would do you for years.

[Dunkel]

And where can you buy Starsan?

[Padraic]

And where can you buy Starsan?

I think the homebrew company are the only irish shop to stock it, there are also some UK based shops that might have it too!

[Ciderhead]

I thought HBW were to get it in as well?

[Partridge9]

I think we are all guilty of stretching the life of our star-san.

That Vidine stuff sounds good - I like the way the colour changes according to its potency level.

At 5 euro for 500g - and roughly 1 teaspoon per gallon - its almost identical to VWP for price/dosage.

[RichC]

Is this the stuff?



http://www.lidl.ie/cps/rde/xchg/SID-48604C7D-247E1B8D/lidl_ni_ie/hs.xsl/4179_29380.htm

Yep Thats what I noe use to clean/remove the brown stain from my plastic vessels.

After an hour steeping, I then rinse 3 times with tap water, then either use StarSan as a quick sanitiser or metabisulphite as a longer term storage solution.

StarSan does NOT work as a long time "keep it wet and sterile solution" I have seen some moulds growing in my plastic vessels put away for a week or 2!!

Will, isn't Starsan meant to last indefinitely if made with RO or DI water, I'm pretty sure that's what charley talley claims. As long as the ph remains below 3 it's still effective (if I remember right)

[Will_D]

Starsan will last a long time if made with RO or Dist. Water.

It is a contact sanitizer that needs IIRC 20 seconds wetting time to kill surface bacteria and yeasts.

Note I said surface! It will NOT kill crud in nooks and crannies.

It also is NOT an agresive cleaner!

VWP and the W5 ARE agressive cleaners/sanitizers - they are a mix of sanitisers ( Chlorine, VWP and Atomic oxygen, W5 ) combined with strongish alkalis (VWP, Not sure, no info yet.  W5 is Sodium per-Carbonate that breaks down into Oxygen and Sodium Carbonate aka. Washing Soda)