noob questions re sanitisation and carbonation

[marc]

hi folks

I've a coupla basic questions for ye. I've been brewing a few years on and off,  always kit brewing, usually coopers kits. I usually get a decent result but am just wondering about how other people sanitise and corbonate reliably

sanitisation
usually i use either thin bleach or cambden tablets. For the fermentation bucket I just fill it up and throw in a load of thin bleach or 5 or 6 cambden tablets.I'd then rinse out with boiling water and again with cold water. For my spoons or water locks then I usually just pour boiling water over them. I soak the syphon hose in the sink with some bleach in it. Is this the most common method folks are using? with the bottles then, after using a bottle brush to give them a rub I chuck them in the dishwasher for a cycle, I then mix a solution of bleach and water and throw a little in each bottle and give is a shake before rinsing. (lot of work..)

seperate question then regarding the carbonation of beers
I usually add a flat tea spoon of ordinary sugar to each 500ml bottle when bottling. I usually bottle straight from primary but usually leave it for maybe three or four weeks to make sure fermentation had finished. The last one or two brews I made were over carbonated, some of the bottles would be perfect, others would spew out of the bottle as soon as i opened and I'd be lucky to get a half pint out of the bottle. I've  coopers IPA ready to go on and bought some carbonation drops this time around. I notice though that they are designed for 33cl bottles though are they, so do i have to add a little more than one drop per 500ml bottle? whats the best way of carbonating reliably? Maybe I should be racking into a secondary and bottling from there?

thanks for any advice!

[Tom]

Good afternoon Marc.

Forum's quiet today because EVERYONE is in Cork!

As for sanitation, it's either time consuming or expensive. It's up to you. I bought some no-rinse sanitiser, Chimipro Oxy, and I LOVE it. I rinse all the dust and crap off the bottles, soak them in a solution of this for 5 mins, then stand to drain. They're no rinse, so this is the ONLY step. Even easier I rinse out the beer and yeast from the bottle once I've finished it, then store it in a box and cover it. The bleach will work fine, but it's not as nice on your hands. VWP is another good product, but you need to rinse it.

Chemipro oxy is a tenner for a kg, and I've been using this for some time and I'm still only halfway down, so it's quite good VFM, while also being a massive time saver.

As for bottling, your sugar dose is about right, but you're siphoning in too much yeast into some bottles, which is probably the ones to bottle last. This is what gives you overcarbonated or gushy beer. I've a bottling bucket which I use as secondary. It's airlocked and has a tap used for bottling. It's so much easier, and it doesn't let hardly any yeast into the bottles. Much more consistent. http://www.homebrewwest.ie/brewferm-fermentation-bucket-30-litres-graduated-with-airlock-tap-and-bottle-filling-stick-1040-p.asp
This is how much I use in a 500ml bottle of ale.
That's a teaspoon, by the way. "These cows are small, those cows are far away" etc.

Lager or wheat beer use a little more.

Bottling's SO dull.

[LordEoin]

re : sanitizer.
20 liters water, 30ml vinegar, 30ml thin bleach (add bleach and vinegar to water, never mix them neat)
Again it's no rinse, and will sanitize in about 15 seconds

[Tom]

Clever.

[Samael]

For carbonation use this calculator - http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html
Use ordinary sugar - no need to buy something diferent.Transfer wort first to clean and sanitized fermenter (without yeast on the bottom !), boil 200-300 ml of water, add calculated sugar dose, then just pour that to fermenter and stir well - this method guarantee You equal carbonation in bottles. I usualy choose the medium volume and I had no problem with carbonation, but I don't know it's works with wheat beers - never try.

Tom I had problem with Oxi - oxidized beers I think that happend, because I used to strong solution for bottles and I didn't rinse after.My last beer is fine - I rinse everything well.Now Oxi gone and I wil try Starsan.

[Chris]

Stirring your fermented beer could also cause oxidation. If you put the sugar solution into the fermenter and then rack the beer on to it, it removes this risk.

[Tom]

Hehe! Never had oxidised beer, never stir my beer! Good point though, Samael, and one I did wonder about myself. I don't batch prime anyway, as I'm terrible at it.

Thanks for posting the calculator, as I could do with getting my el-cheapo keg carbonated right.

[DEMPSEY]

re : sanitizer.
20 liters water, 30ml vinegar, 30ml thin bleach.
Again it's no rinse, and will sanitize in about 15 seconds

Warning do not mix the vinegar with the bleach before putting into the water as you will produce a toxic gas that will kill.

[Samael]

You right lads - I mixed up :/ First sugar then transfer wort to fermentor. I just overacted with "stir well"...should be "stir slowly and gently" to avoid aeration. My bad...typing faster than think hahaha.Sorry.

[RichC]

You right lads - I mixed up :/ First sugar then transfer wort to fermentor. I just overacted with "stir well"...should be "stir slowly and gently" to avoid aeration. My bad...typing faster than think hahaha.Sorry.

don't stir at all guys. Get siphon going with hose to one side of bottling bucket. It creates a whirlpool effect. pour sugar syrup in just where beer is leaving siphon. Start bottling as soon as its full. Never had any inconsistency in bottle carbonation this way.
@Marc, save yourself a load of work by buying a bottling tree and vinator if u haven't already got them. Takes 5 mins or less to sanitize a batch of clean bottles. (Then stick an extra spigot on your bottling bucket another great speedup)

[LordEoin]

I put one FV up high and one down low, then connect the 2 taps with PVC tubing and let gravity transfer.
Because you're filling fron the bottom via the tap there's no aeration and it thoroughly mixes the priming sugar solution in.

[Tom]

I like the sugar syrup idea. Much more likely to dissolve evenly.

[Samael]

don't stir at all guys. Get siphon going with hose to one side of bottling bucket. It creates a whirlpool effect.

Cheers Rich, will try this way.Never too late, to learn something new

[Covey]

sanitisation
usually i use either thin bleach or cambden tablets. For the fermentation bucket I just fill it up and throw in a load of thin bleach or 5 or 6 cambden tablets.I'd then rinse out with boiling water and again with cold water. For my spoons or water locks then I usually just pour boiling water over them. I soak the syphon hose in the sink with some bleach in it. Is this the most common method folks are using? with the bottles then, after using a bottle brush to give them a rub I chuck them in the dishwasher for a cycle, I then mix a solution of bleach and water and throw a little in each bottle and give is a shake before rinsing. (lot of work..)

Hi Marc,
If the bottles are clean before you put them in the dishwasher, if you use a hot cycle they will be sterile when they come out(Job done). I use lidl w5 oxy cleaner, its cheap as chips and never had an infection todate

[marc]

lots of great info there, thanks for that folks

seems unanimous then, everyone bottles from a secondary fermenter, obviously thats what I should be doing too. tom - I can imagine how the tap in that secondary bucket would make bottling a lot easier. seems the way to go..how long do you tend to leave it in secondary then, or is only really for bottling purposes. adding the sugar in there seems to be the right  job, thats what ill do with my next batch.

regarding the sanitisation - lordeoin, just curious, why do you add the vinegar, would the bleach alone not do the job? Also, if I use bleach I wouldve thought I needed to rinse, seeing its suppose to kill 99% of germs and all that, would it not kill the yeast as well? no rinsing sounds good to me anyway,
covery, I always pop them in the dishwasher but i never trust whether theyre fully clean inside or not. I always rinse the botlles after drinking but da wife may not always think of it and I sometimes find little fungi in there happily feeding away. I tend to sanitise before sticking them in the diswasher. (the vineator seems to be the job for this)

cheers