W34/70 @ 18C!! Brulosophy/Beersmith Podcast

[garciaBernal]

So, last night I was listening to the new Beersmith podcast with Brulosophy as a guest. In the middle of it he was going through some of his more interesting experiments and mentions using Saflager W-34/70 fermenting out at 18C with the fermenting profile of an ale and having absolutely no issue with it. The other split batch was fermented at 10C. Nobody noticed any difference.
I know there's a few lagermasters on here who will totally dismiss any such suggestions but has anyone else carried out this experiment? I've used his quick lager method but that involved bringing it down to both 12C and 0C. This seems to be totally different.
Any thoughts?

[Leann ull]

Dry yeast indeed :-)
Trying not to be dismissive here.
Common for homebrewers to do their starters at those temps.
His panel must be really shit as even though his experiments are very clever and thorough they really struggle to spot what should be significant differences on everything he has ever done and all that I have read have been inconclusive.

I digress, fermenting a larger strain at ale temps is of course possible but you will stress the yeast there is no discussion there. Then its a question of how the yeast manifests that stress, with Pilsners there is nowhere to hide and so to my eyes it should be estery and not as clean or crisp as it would be ordinarily, not everybody can pick up those profiles.

Only one way to really find out, try it yourself 

[garciaBernal]

I think you're being a bit harsh on some of his experiments. The gelatin one stands out as being really conclusive in fairness and a lot of yeast comparison ones. Sometimes they are inconclusive because there really seems to be no major differences in what he is trying to determine. I'm definitely putting this one to the test myself and seeing what turns out from it. I'll keep ya'll posted.
Cheers!

[BrewDorg]

He also wrote an article addressing the criticism of his panels

http://brulosophy.com/2016/01/21/investigating-the-bad-palates-argument-a-graphical-look-at-xbmt-performance-based-on-experience-level/

FWIW I think his experiments are great and they help you decide what is really important to nail down and what is something to keep in the back of your mind. I do feel though, the recipes he uses for some experiments is wrong for showing off the variable properly and it prevents conclusive results. I also think he sets up the variables strangely sometimes which doesn't help the results either. Overall I think his articles are very useful.

[Leann ull]

Even his own analysis of his tasters resulted in "Finally, this is not conclusive proof of anything."
For the amount of work he puts into it maybe I'm looking for more black and white rather than grey and just a discussion document or horoscope, eitherways I'm not one of his groupies and its only my opinion based on my own experience which is what the op asked and I have yet to change anything I do in brewing based on one of his experiments that I hadn't already read somewhere else.

[DEMPSEY]

His experiments are good but I do question his panel quality as I read their analysis

[BrewDorg]

I'm not a groupie either, that was tongue in cheek. Like I said in the last part of my post, I find his experiments interesting but they have their flaws. The sheer number of inconclusive results says a lot.

[garciaBernal]

Wouldn't it be great if all the people we gave our beer to were BJCP trained, cicerones or brewers? People who could pick out every nuance in your beer? Nah fuck that. I'm going to give this experiment a lash anyway and see how it goes. May be next weekend but I'll keep ya'll informed of how it goes.

[Qs]

I wonder about his panels too but at the end of the day if the difference is so minute that a layman can't spot it then its certainly worth considering if the effort for whatever variable is worth while. I really like the site but I often think the results can't be right. Is there something he's doing that hides or nullifies the potential flaws?

[Leann ull]

Wouldn't it be great if all the people we gave our beer to were BJCP trained, cicerones or brewers?

And there is the problem most of my NHC pals decided to become BJCP judges or go on to become pro brewers the bastards
Genuinely curious as to how you get on, 2 packs yeah!

[garciaBernal]

Wouldn't it be great if all the people we gave our beer to were BJCP trained, cicerones or brewers?

2 packs yeah!

Of course!

[darren996]

I for one will be giving this one a try as well.  I gave a few of my friends ( piss heads not bjcp qualified ),  my helles experiment with m54 and none of them classed it as an ale, even the missus said it was allright.

[Pheeel]

I brewed a Rye Pilsner with 34/70 and served it just last weekend. I was given a month's notice for a family get together and told to rebrew that beer (my other attempt was a true lager and turned out well). Fermented at 18C for two weeks and lagered for a week. I was really quite shocked at how good it turned out. Not quite comp quality, could have done with more lagering, but it served its purpose. I'll def use it again