Shit Irish Breweries

[brenmurph]

Somebody say "shit irish breweries" ? Myself dunkel mrs dunkel kellie and reuben the beoir chairman sat in a pub sat night and drank guinness bulmers and smithwicks..... a craft brewery was across the street selling 4 beers brewed onsite. We left for a number of reasons not least there existed no craft beer passion in the facility despite a state of the art top notch brewhouse and physical surroundings were very nice. For me craft beer is all about passion for beer, brewing and socialising

[baphomite51]

Somebody say "shit irish breweries" ? Myself dunkel mrs dunkel kellie and reuben the beoir chairman sat in a pub sat night and drank guinness bulmers and smithwicks..... a craft brewery was across the street selling 4 beers brewed onsite. We left for a number of reasons not least there existed no craft beer passion in the facility despite a state of the art top notch brewhouse and physical surroundings were very nice. For me craft beer is all about passion for beer, brewing and socialising

Ha I seen a tweet about that, wat a sad situation. Probably a fair few lads out there looking to make a quick buck and lacking the passion, they won't last thankfully but gives craft beer a bad name sadly

[Qs]

Also I think a lot of new Irish brewers have trouble on their gear. I've noticed improved quality on quite a few Irish beers that have been around for a few years now and have had the chance to put some money back into upgrading their equipment.

That shouldn't be an excuse though; plenty of brewers on here making great beer with basic equipment.

I know but I get the feeling everyone would struggle with a move to commercial brewing. A lot of new factors to worry about. And I don't really see it as good excuse anyway, at the end of the day the beer is off and I'm not gonna buy it.

Why are they releasing batches which are obviously under par to market? Do they think the punter won't notice? Do they not notice themselves? Or is money so tight they can't afford to lose a batch?

They definitely shouldn't be. Every batch could be the first time someone is tasting your beer. If its off dump it.

[Stun Reeb]

I think there are some fantastic Irish beers on the market.  Blacks, Kinnegar and Eight Degrees are all making some great hoppy bears.  It is as an exciting time for craft beer in Ireland and I am more than happy to pay a premium for these premium beers. 

What I don't understand is that all craft beers cost between 3 – 4 Euros per 500ml bottle and between 5.50 and 6.00 a pint in the pub.  On the other hand, a pint of Carlsberg/Henieken/etc. is usually around 5.00 in the pub, but you can often get 6 for 10 in the shop and never pay more than 2.00 for a tin.  Why the difference?

[barkar]

Economies of scale, lower bulk quantities from malt right through to print run on labels , h and diageo id imagine use hop extract for bittering and can demand much better prices on hops and can sub quite easily less  , macro less labour intensive production process , plus the publican can get away with slapping 50- 65% markup on what the brewery gets , plus below cost selling by established macros



I'd defo think the publican can kill off the sector by slapping the "craft tax" on a beer. I have seen a pretty well known off licence in Dublin slapping 50c on a bottle of beer that was for sale down the country, for obviously 50c less - then even with a possibly a decent margin on it - I think due to the size of the industry now warrants some players stating their rrp per bottle, if its evident they are creaming above this(the vendor) , threaten to remove it  and blacklist the vendor, people want craft beer and see how it can be matched with grub or whatever as oppose to the beerswilling culture we have among some demographic

[barkar]

well done me (invisible path on back) i have singlehandedly managed to kill a thread ! sorry i have modified my above rantings a bit - in my defence i was just coming out of recovery after surgery!

[Hop Bomb]

I have seen a pretty well known off licence in Dublin slapping 50c on a bottle of beer that was for sale down the country, for obviously 50c less - then even with a possibly a decent margin on it - I think due to the size of the industry now warrants some players stating their rrp per bottle, if its evident they are creaming above this(the vendor) , threaten to remove it  and blacklist the vendor, people want craft beer and see how it can be matched with grub or whatever as oppose to the beerswilling culture we have among some demographic

A certain off license near Easons in Galway has been selling bottles of Galway Bay OFAF for 7.15e a bottle since it came out. Its 5.90e everywhere else. They've been approached by the brewer about it & the price remains the same.  Same price for the same beer in an offie in Ranelagh too when others have it at the 5.90e mark & even cheaper if you buy a case.

[mr hoppy]

Was it this article?

http://www.drinksindustryireland.ie/559-pubs-selling-craft-beer-how-to-join-them/

[barkar]

@barkar, did I see your name on public tenders recently?

Barkar ? , no, that name didn't appear on e tenders  
- look leader money is a fierce fiery red carrot, hopefully the resultant stick (if fortunate enough) doesn't burn our fingers... - we are at very early days of planning and scoping this out -  some of the points i highlight below need significant consideration for us  before the contents of any bag of malt is hurled into any tun !


My thoughts ....

Dunno about the "pricing up" strategy mentioned -  I would question what machinations are behind those Industry mags and to what ends, that advice profits certain market holders - Inb£$v, Hineo and genius for example

there is a point where saturation maybe reached within the current market  (or any industry for that matter) the price charged is a significant factor (as per the initial post -  this is even evident though our own membership never mind the prospective future craft beer afficionados who decide between a 6 pack of whatever as compared to 4 artisan produced beers in any local offie every friday night ! ),

is ("craft") at this point and then ultimately self erosion where it cant grow due to obstacles that are there  - misinformation of publicans and vendors being one  - that can be effected by the breweries - through those Journals , excise rebate lag time being another  - which ultimately starves starts ups of needed cash to market and grow -  lobbying the revenue/dept of finance for a change in this policy is a different animal altogether! ?

is it at a point that there is a significant body of persons within it  that they don't have to accept what the publican sets as a price  - breweries maybe -  through collaboration on Beerireland? -  maybe not quite at that point yet - consumers definitely can  - by walking away with their feet!-  in some ways I suppose that's how this band of (homebrew) brothers and sisters (?) have grown!

Will it (craft) emerge beyond where it is now without provoking a response from macros ?, there is no reason to suggest that they are not doing this already, some, embracing it by broadening their product range, others, less positively (again i have seen evidence locally where some macros have reacted to the down turn over the years quit pettily to reduced order quantities from Publicans by charging a fee for every non reorder per their previous levels)   

I think craft is a label that is too easily slapped on any beer that is not InbTv & Genius ie erdinger and hoegaarden is labelled craft out here because it is new (ish) -  these are new macro import entrants and not craft

That article mentioned  is right though, publicans and their employees need to embrace this and be informed of the products on offer within their establishment - the example i mentioned above of the additional 50c on a bottle - i was talking to the 2 boys on the counter , majority of their shelves stock craft beer - they suggested there was a huge market for craft beer ie they couldn't keep the shelves stocked - then one of them pipped up "what does Craft beer actually mean" i mean really .... that is just lazy - both points above can be achieved by education and knowledge

True craft is a buzzword at the moment and is flying high - there are a lot of publicans and distributors regionally riding on the coat tails of this without fully embracing it ... dont get me wrong  - there are also a good portion who are leading by example and really pushing it which is also highly commendable particularly in the major towns -  we are all agreed (i think) slapping 50c on a bottle isn't  -  that's an insurance policy in case it doesn't sell all the case or box !

Price shouldn't be the main market variable but there is a point at which we all know despite how its differrentiated or marketed people will walk away and choose an alternative - particularly if the quality is not as was expected or suggested per the labeling  this is something the breweries definitely need to address - there are some exceptions (malt age whisky for example where price is nt a determinant -  but quality is expected) - I don't believe standard ale or lager offerings is one of them where differentiation is significant (different subset of styles maybe) ....maybe if the market cant grow -  differentiation then becomes a significant factor but then that equally partners self erosion and possible demise of breweries in the sector

Maybe i am talking waffle  ..... I could very well be whistling in the dark on this one (in part due to the time of these post! its late  ))

[barkar]

@mr h, no not that one, but interesting read all the same.

@barkar, best of luck with the application. I thought all the Leader money had run out nationwide. Kildare LP had €1.8m taken off them because they weren't giving it out quick enough, resulting in no breweries at all getting funding. They say none applied, but no point in applying for money that's not there.

Thanks Dube early days as is said , we will keep ye posted on how we go and any support from people on this forum would be gladly received and welcomed..... 

Not sure on Kildare position 1.8M left ?  maybe some projects underspent against the contract awarded and the deficit goes back centrally  to be put into the overall pot - Leader is definitely being launched again late 2015 don't know who will be appraising and dishing out money possibly the Local Authorities or CEDBs if the local Development/partnerships companies are no longer dealing with it.

[mr hoppy]

This article pretty much sums up the way I feel about some macro produced beers (Guinness FES comes to mind)

Why support a multinational? Good question. Back when I lived in Britain in the 1970's and 1980's, I had no problem drinking beers from the Big Six. If they were good. To encourage them to still make them. If I'd boycotted the big brewers I'd have deprived myself of some wonderful beers. There's a Mild from Leeds that comes to mind. What was the name of that brewery? What sane person would have deprived themselves of a well-kept pint of Draught Bass?

I keep drinking it because I like it and want them to keep brewing it.

But it pisses me off, too. Amstel Bock is proof that Heineken can brew a pretty good beer for a great price. When they can be arsed. Why don't they do it more often?

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.ie/2014/09/bokbier-season.html

[baphomite51]

this is an interesting post i seen on twitter by black donkey especially since we were just discussing it this week, they posted this photo with the caption "its where beer that doesnt meet our standards go" so at least some irish breweries have standards and care

[molc]

You beat me to posting that

[ferg]

Had a pint of White Hag White IPA over the weekend at Beerhouse... I have to say it
was the best Irish pint I've ever had, and is head and shoulders above almost anything else I've had this year... for once I didn't feel bitter about paying 6.20 for a pint! Other Irish breweries could learn a thing or two..

[barkar]

they are, was out in their premises , some setup 20bbl, their fleadh ale was very nice