National Homebrew Club Ireland

General Discussions => Introductions => Topic started by: Chriswaters on December 31, 2020, 09:34:57 PM

Title: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on December 31, 2020, 09:34:57 PM
New brewer based in Partry, Mayo. Glad to join the club.  Anyone local to share tips and bottles let me know
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: colm89 on January 01, 2021, 09:25:08 AM
Welcome to the club, I'm not a million miles from you in Enniscrone!
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on January 01, 2021, 04:36:13 PM
Hey colm,  enniscrone not to far, a few good spots for surfing round there I get up to when I can.  I was checking out your posts,  have you still got the wort chiller? been recommended as my next purchase.
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: colm89 on January 06, 2021, 10:48:45 PM
Quote from: Chriswaters on January 01, 2021, 04:36:13 PMHey colm,  enniscrone not to far, a few good spots for surfing round there I get up to when I can.  I was checking out your posts,  have you still got the wort chiller? been recommended as my next purchase.

Sorry, don't know how I missed this, I do still have it but actually going to hold onto it til I see how my latest no chill brew turns out before making a final decision!
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on January 23, 2021, 12:29:05 AM
Hey Chris,

Sorry, haven't been checking here as much since the the Discord platform was launched! I'm based in Castlebar and am definitely interested in bottle swops and anything else that might be going on!
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 07:34:58 AM
No problem,  I forgot to check this myself the last few weeks
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 07:38:33 AM
Second brew just bottled last night.  Im doing the BIAB method and can only get about 15litres in the pot for the boil. I have been ha)ving measurements so far but plan on doing two mashes with the same water and then diluting down again when going in the fermenter.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 07:48:27 AM
What final volume are you looking for? The technique you're referring to is called reiterated mashing, and while it is useful to increase your original specific gravity, it's quite inefficient. If you're looking for greater volume, I'd do two separate mashes and combine them in the fermenter... it will take the same time, but should be better from an efficiency perspective?
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 09:37:03 AM
Im looking for 20 litres.  Just about hitting 10 litres bottled. Am I wasting grain by adding more to offset that? Currently im cooking the wort by placing my hole pot in cold water outside and adding a half litre of frozen water, it takes a while to cooldown and so far(only twice) transferring to the fermenter and pitching yeast the following morning.  Im thinking the two separate brews will make it difficult to cool and start again. My fermenter is the plastic kind,  will that hold the wort ok and I cool it in that you think?
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 09:46:21 AM
Apologies, i said fermenter, I meant kettle!! ... If your max mash volume is 15l, and you are looking for 20l, I would mash 2x 10l and then boil them together... a mashout step would be advisable after the first mash to halt enzyme activity
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 09:58:38 AM
Do you mean two separate mashes in the same water/wort? Do two separate 10l boils and add one after the other in the fermenter?I won't fit 20l to boil in my kettle.i start off with 15 litres, which turn into about 11 in the fermenter.

Im not sure what a mash out step is.

Thanks for the help by the way
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 10:06:57 AM
No problem!

Ah, I understand now... your max kettle volume is 15 litres... yeah, you could try a reiterated mash to increase the starting gravity and then add boiling water to top up to 20l ... If you have no way of cooling quickly, google the 'no chill' or cube method... there's much less risk if contamination as the wort is in a sealed container... I wouldn't advise adding frozen water directly to your wort after boiling as it risks contamination ... a mash out step is where you increase the temperature of your mash at the end to above 76° which stops any more conversion so that your end beer has the body you were aiming for
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: colm89 on January 29, 2021, 10:10:06 AM
Quote from: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 09:37:03 AMIm looking for 20 litres.  Just about hitting 10 litres bottled. Am I wasting grain by adding more to offset that? Currently im cooking the wort by placing my hole pot in cold water outside and adding a half litre of frozen water, it takes a while to cooldown and so far(only twice) transferring to the fermenter and pitching yeast the following morning.  Im thinking the two separate brews will make it difficult to cool and start again. My fermenter is the plastic kind,  will that hold the wort ok and I cool it in that you think?

If you use Brewfather you can set up an equipment profile that includes how much fresh water you'll top your wort/fermenter up with and it adjusts the amount of grain you'd have to mash to suit.

In other words you'd make a really high OG wort, and water it down to the desired OG in your fermenter. It sounds like you'd need nearly the same amount of water again though if your pre boil volume is 15l and your desired batch volume is 20 litres. I'm sure it could be done but I don't know what impact this would have on the finished beer.
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: colm89 on January 29, 2021, 10:14:25 AM
Quote from: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 10:06:57 AMNo problem!

Ah, I understand now... your max kettle volume is 15 litres... yeah, you could try a reiterated mash to increase the starting gravity and then add boiling water to top up to 20l ... If you have no way of cooling quickly, google the 'no chill' or cube method... there's much less risk if contamination as the wort is in a sealed container... I wouldn't advise adding frozen water directly to your wort after boiling as it risks contamination ... a mash out step is where you increase the temperature of your mash at the end to above 76° which stops any more conversion so that your end beer has the body you were aiming for

I've had a few very successful "no chill" brews and loved how much time it saved on the brew day. I just added each hop addition 15 mins later in the boil as it'll be hotter for longer if not chilling conventionally. This has been fine for pilsners that have no hops later than 15 mins left on the boil so not sure how it would work with 10/5/1/flameout/hopstand additions. Maybe you could just add them all to the wort at flameout?
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 10:28:13 AM
I've no experience or indeed much knowledge of using no chill apart from the fact it exists... it's used a lot in Australia and other hot countries, so I would imagine there's ways to preserve hop aroma and flavour... I'd say there's plenty of information if you google it
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: colm89 on January 29, 2021, 10:30:37 AM
Quote from: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 10:28:13 AMI've no experience or indeed much knowledge of using no chill apart from the fact it exists... it's used a lot in Australia and other hot countries, so I would imagine there's ways to preserve hop aroma and flavour... I'd say there's plenty of information if you google it

Almost certainly, however having gone back to smaller batches my immersion chiller gets them to pitching temp in no time at all with the current water temperature  8)
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 11:20:25 AM
Cheers Matt. There's a lot to guide me there. I'll definitely get on brewfather and seehow  best to go forward with my equipment. I'll do more googling and see how I get on.
A lot of other bits of info in there as well which are adding to my understanding of the whole process.  Even the correct terms to be using will help with the research.
10 litres is just gone to quick especially when im giving it away. I can see how this becomes an obsession.
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 11:24:15 AM
Thanks colm as well.  I missed that you were replying on the thread. You'd swear I've had a few already today :-\
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 11:25:18 AM
No bother at all! ... yeah, it's a slippery slope, and ten litres doesn't last very long at all, especially for lighter beers! It's also the same amount of work to do 10l as it is to do 50l once you have the equipment! ... If you need anything else, don't hesitate!
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 11:35:34 AM
Quote from: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 11:25:18 AMNo bother at all! ... yeah, it's a slippery slope, and ten litres doesn't last very long at all, especially for lighter beers! It's also the same amount of work to do 10l as it is to do 50l once you have the equipment! ... If you need anything else, don't hesitate!
yl

You'll regret that!
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 11:35:34 AM
Quote from: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 11:25:18 AMNo bother at all! ... yeah, it's a slippery slope, and ten litres doesn't last very long at all, especially for lighter beers! It's also the same amount of work to do 10l as it is to do 50l once you have the equipment! ... If you need anything else, don't hesitate!
yl

You'll regret that!

... I bet you stop talking about brewing before I do
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: colm89 on January 29, 2021, 11:49:18 AM
Conversely I've gone backwards from 12 litre brews to 5-8 litre brews as I like to brew different stuff more often. I made the mistake of doing two batches of the same white IPA back to back and couldn't face the last 6 bottles so flushed them down the drain  ???
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 06:08:29 PM
Yeah there's thinking behind that. Especially as im only starting and want to get as many beers under my belt
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 06:09:48 PM
Quote from: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 11:41:00 AM
Quote from: Chriswaters on January 29, 2021, 11:35:34 AM
Quote from: Matt DBrewer on January 29, 2021, 11:25:18 AMNo bother at all! ... yeah, it's a slippery slope, and ten litres doesn't last very long at all, especially for lighter beers! It's also the same amount of work to do 10l as it is to do 50l once you have the equipment! ... If you need anything else, don't hesitate!
yl

You'll regret that!

... I bet you stop talking about brewing before I do
I'll put you in touch with my buddy. He'll give anyone a run for their money
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on February 02, 2021, 08:03:09 PM
Hey lads. You've been great so far, can I pick your brains again.

So, I brewed a batch of blonde ale and sent bottles to friend in the UK who judged it and gave some feedback. He's picking up solvent and acetaldehyde off  flavours, mostly the former. Now that I'm looking for it im getting it. He thinks it's a water quality issue and recommending campden tablets used in the sanitizing process also. He's suggesting new fermenting bucket as mine has had a little use over 3 years trying wine and cider and may have picked up scratches and now hiding things.

I've just tried a bottle from my second brew,  attempt at an American pale ale I bottled only last Thursday. Same taste overriding everything. Kolsch currently being fermented.

Im looking for any additional suggestions?

Maybe even a willing test subject for a bottle?
Loaf of Spent grain Sourdough to clear the taste from the mouth.  That I know I can do right. 

Any feedback great or small is welcomed
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on February 02, 2021, 08:25:52 PM
I'm far from an expert on tasting off flavours, but it sounds like your friend is on the right track! ... a simple way to rule out water is to make a batch with shop water, you can get 5l  bottles of Tesco water cheaply enough. My advice also with any old plastic equipment that may be scratched or you have any concerns about is just replace it, because you will never know for sure... the other thing then I would look at is yeast health, so this is fermentation temperature and control, pitching enough healthy yeast, and making sure they have the right nutrients 
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on February 02, 2021, 08:42:44 PM
Cheers Matt,

So it was bottled water the first time but not the second,  but campden tablet used in the kettle.
He's suggesting that untreated tap water in the sanitizing process could be doing it.

I think im fermenting to high,  I'm fermenting in the kitchen and I don't know how accurate the temperature strip on the side of the bucket is. I've the kolsch in the utility with the heat turned off as that should ferment at a lower temp. The Kolsch might provide a bit more info for me.

It's a4 week turnaround before I know if anything is changing!!

This brewing lark ain't straight forward
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on February 02, 2021, 08:58:53 PM
It's not, but trouble shooting and problem solving are a huge part of the fun!! ... I would be fairly confident your issue is temperature control so... I have a belgian beer fermenting at the moment, in a spare room without the heating on, and i let the temp free rise to stress the yeast to get some Belgian esters, and when I went in to check it earlier it had gotten up to 24°... what yeast are you using?
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on February 02, 2021, 09:00:25 PM
During active fermentation the temp at the centre of your fermenter could be a few degrees higher than on the surface where the temp strip is
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on February 02, 2021, 09:10:00 PM
Ok so I'd say fermenting way too high.  The pale ale was an English Pale Yeast,  11g pitched into 11 liters.

My first brew was red safale us 05

Kolsch was Kolsch Style Ale Yeast.


Im guessing im going to have the same issue with my Kolsch. Room temp reading 16 degrees.

What's the best way to  check fermentation temperature?
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on February 02, 2021, 09:24:51 PM
It's hard to know with the kolsch, 16 would be ok but it depends how warm the beer itself got... the best way is to use a thermowell which allows you stick a temperature gauge into the centre of the fermenter... but... those strips do a good enough job, if you bear in mind that they're an indication only, and that if there is active fermentation the temp could be a few degrees higher at the centre of the fermenter
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Chriswaters on February 02, 2021, 10:21:08 PM
Cheers Matt. Theres hope for the Kolsch yet so.  Awaiting an order of new supplies so will brew again when that arrives and put everything to the test.

Again, I appreciate all the help. It's a good aul' community

Hopefully I'll hit you back with some positive results
Title: Re: Mayo mayo
Post by: Matt DBrewer on February 02, 2021, 10:45:56 PM
No problem at all!! Good luck with it, and let us know how it goes!!