I was thinking of a way to make extract brewing as simple as possible for kit brewers, who probably don't have things like large stockpots or immersion chillers. So what's wrong with the following plan, making an 11.5 litre volume with nothing larger than a standard 2.5 litre saucepan :-
1) Bring 1.5 litres water to 70 C on the stove top
2) Add crushed speciality grain (about 500 gm, depending on beer style) in muslin bag
3) Steep grain for 30 mins
4) Remove grain bag and drain on top of sieve into another pot
5) Add water to make 2 litres, bring to boil
6) Add 60 min hops and drainings from 4)
7) Add 15 min hops
8 ) Add 5 min hops
9) Remove pot from heat at 0 mins
10) Put 3 litres cold water in sanitized fermenter
11) Add 1.5 kg tin/pouch of LME to fermenter
12) Strain pot through sieve (presuming the hops were loose) into other sanitized pot
13) Use hot hop tea to rinse out LME tin/pouch and add to fermenter
14) Top up fermenter to 11.5 litres and add yeast
So no need for any large pots or cooling equipment. What could possibly go wrong? :P ???
Given the understanding that large breweries top up their fermenter's I don't see why not. Only issue I see is the possibility of poor quality cold water being used i.e. is it hygienic :)
I'm sure you'll get no end of 'helpful suggestions' on this one, just thought I'd drop my 2 cents in right away ;D
My first cent - I tend to leave the addition of any steeping grains until the last 10 mins of the boil to avoid creating harsh flavours, esp. with darker grains. Even adding the wort from steeping directly to the FV worked fine for me in the past.
My second cent - You'll need a touch more than 2 litres for three hop additions. When I'm using a French press to create hop extract I typically get 700ml from a litre of water. This is just down to soakage by the hops, the boil will also cause evaporation (Up to 20% typically on my system).
A cent I borrowed from a money lender - I find LME easier to dissolve in hot water, maybe putting warm water into the FV (as in point 10) may help dissolve the extract easier.
Other than that it all sounds groovy ;)
thats basically what my extract batchs were like.
- Pot was in or around 5L
- Steeped grains between 60 - 70c
- After 30mins remove grains keeping as much liquid in pot as possible
- Add dme/lme while bringing to boil for me it was 3 - 4kg, be careful of scorching, also be very wary of boil over during the hot break due to high sugar concentration.
- Boil for 60 mins adding hops as required. i topped it 2 -3 times as required too due to evaporation
- When finished pour into fermenter and top up to desired level with tap water, for me it was 20L
adding 15L -18L of cold water to about 5L of boiling/very hot liquid generally gets you down to pitiching tempertures, you can also cool it in a water bath to drop the temp too.
having 3 - 4 kg of extract in 5L of water gives you a very high sg which will affect hop utilisation i.e. you will need to use slightly more hops then you would on a 20L boil
Ive tried it but you still lose 2/3L with an hour boil so my beer turned out terrible. Had to keep topping up with water as it was all boiling off
I wouldn't bother with anything less than a 10L kettle for this
From what I've read it's always best to boil as big as volume as possible, you don't have as efficient hop extraction when have a lower volume. And the lower volume can also caramelise the wort more, but since you're leaving the extract till after the boil, this might not affect it as much.
Yep, agree with everybody. I had a look around my kitchen yesterday, and the biggest "normal" size saucepan was 2.5 litres. Perhaps I'm trying to be too clever here, and should just suggest to wannabe extractors that they buy a 5-10 litre pot.
Do you need to boil at all? You can get bitterness from steeping alone, you just need more hops. Have a look at the Brewers Choice DME kits. Example here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,4261.0.html).
You can also get hopped DME (https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/muntons-liquid-malt-extract-15kg-hopped-light-p-2334.html)?
I'd still boil even if it was only for 10 minutes
QuotePerhaps I'm trying to be too clever here, and should just suggest to wannabe extractors that they buy a 5-10 litre pot.
I actually think the idea has merit, just needs to be tested in practice to iron out any issues and refine the process a little bit.
I've a 15L FV begging to be filled up, so will give it a whirl at the weekend and post results here. I'll make a witbier, as the technique might lend itself best to lower IBU brews (weissbier, English bitter, Irish red ale, etc.), and as others here have said a 60 min boil may not be required - maybe more hops, or a shorter boil - let's see!
Well, the brew is done using a slight variation on the method above, and is chugging away nicely in its new home under the stairs. The whole process was very straight forward and it was all over in an hour and a half, including cleanup.
I did use wheat DME instead of LME, as I couldn't source any liquid extract in time for brew day. However, I think LME might actually be less fuss overall and I will be giving it a go at another time.
As this was very much a first bash at the technique above there was something of a learning curve involved, and I've made some notes and comments that might help improve the process below -
The recipe used here is a simple hefeweissen, as I thought it was well suited to the low IBUs obtained from a short boil. I think this recipe will work well by itself, but will most likely be adding some lemon or lime peel to this one when fermentation has completed.
Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 14.0
Total Hops (g): 24
Original Gravity (OG): 1.048
Final Gravity (FG): 1.011 (est.)
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 4.9 %
Colour (EBC): 12.4
Bitterness (IBU): 15.2 (est. Tinseth)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 30
Malt Bill
----------------
1.5 kg Munton's Wheat DME (93.75%)
0.1kg Carared (6.25)
Hop Bill
----------------
8.0 g Magnam Pellet (10.7% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes [12.48 IBU]
8.0 g Hellertau Mittlefreuh Pellet (3% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes [1.72 IBU]
8.0 g Hellertau Mittlefreuh Pellet (3% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes [0.95 IBU]
Misc Bill
----------------
100g Maltodextrin @ 10 minutes
0.5 g Yeast Nutrient @ 10 Minutes
Yeast
----------------
6.0g Safbrew T-58 yeast
Walkthrough
1. Placed 5L bottled water in fridge to chill in advance (this will help cool to wort to pitching temperature later).
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Parky07/Extract%20experiment/1_zpsgk85lqj7.jpg)
2. Weighed out crushed steeping grains, hop additions and misc. additions into separate bowls.
3. Using two pots from a standard domestic set (2.5L and 1.5L), I added 1.5L to one pot (for the hop boil) and 750ml to the other (for steeping grains).
4. When the water in the steeping grains pot reached 70oC I removed both pots from the heat.
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Parky07/Extract%20experiment/2_zpsjpw7dhyv.jpg)
5. Added steeping grains (in muslin bag) to steeping grains pot, covered, and started timer for 30 mins.
6. Added 100g of DME to hop pot (now off the heat) ensuring it was well mixed. (Note: 100g of DME in 1.5L water will create a wort of approx. 1.025 SG; 100ml of LME will provide a similar gravity, approx. 1.021).
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Parky07/Extract%20experiment/3_zpspfvbhubt.jpg)
7. Returned hop pot to the heat and brought to a rolling boil.
8. Wort will foam very quickly at this point, watch carefully and remove from heat when wort boils.
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Parky07/Extract%20experiment/4_zps6ff6xvm3.jpg)
9. Added bittering hop addition and turned down heat to a simmer (Note: Watch the wort doesn't boil over at this point. Keep stirring gently until wort settles into rolling simmer).
10. Covered hop pot with lid to limit evaporation and started another timer for 30 minutes.
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Parky07/Extract%20experiment/5_zpssqlwpngf.jpg)
11. With 10 minutes left on the hop boil I added the 10 minute additions, increased heat slightly and covered with pot lid.
12. Rehyrated yeast in 150mls water at 27oC and covered with cling film.
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Parky07/Extract%20experiment/6_zpsbh2zz8mp.jpg)
13. After 30 mins of soaking, removed steeping grains from pot and used strainer to let bag drain.
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Parky07/Extract%20experiment/7_zps2fsztvt5.jpg)
14. Added 5 minute hop addition and stirred in well.
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Parky07/Extract%20experiment/8_zpsclo2d9qh.jpg)
15. Attached sanitised hop bag to fermentation vessel and poured hop wort through it at flameout.
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Parky07/Extract%20experiment/9_zpsffgqhvza.jpg)
16. Added wort from steeping grains to hop wort in fermentation vessel and topped up to 5L with water (The additional water is to facilitate dissolving the DME, perhaps with LME the hot wort may be enough to dissolve the malt).
17. Added the remaining wheat DME slowly and stirred to dissolve, making sure to avoid any lumps.
18. Once the DME was fully dissolved I topped up the fermentation vessel to 14L. This included added the 5L of bottled water that had been chilled earlier.
19. Once fermentation vessel had been topped up the temperature read 20oC, which is ideal for the yeast being used here.
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Parky07/Extract%20experiment/10_zpshun7vno9.jpg)
20. Gravity reading of the wort came out as 1.048
21. Yeast was pitched into fermentation vessel and mixed.
22. Placed lid on fermentation vessel and moved to area that had an ambient temp of 18oC
Additional Notes:
1. I was surprised at how straightforward the brewday went, biggest issue here was around the creation of hopped wort at such a small volume.
2. Wort foamed very quickly when brought to the boil, need to watch carefully and remove from heat as soon as it boils.
3. I was surprised that simmering the wort (at same setting used to simmer rice), kept the temp at 85-90oC. This is well within the range for isomerisation, and although the isomerisation rate may not be as efficient as wort boiling at 100oC, simmering is far more manageable in terms of evaporation rates and control of foaming.
4. Strictly speaking the IBU's calculated in the recipe above do not apply, as they were calculated using standard brewing software, and do not account for the lower temperature of the 'boil'. However, I'm satisfied that simmering rather than boiling produces enough bittering potential to achieve the desired IBUs, and would be easy manageable for a longer boil.
Excellent article and great photos.
Kudos on the thread Dunkel,has given me food for thought for keeping my hand in brewing on a smaller scale(smaller but more often i am thinking),the biggest pot i have is about 8 litres to the brim,i wonder what could i get away with using that as in volumes etc like you have done there ? ;D
Anyway keep us updated on any further brews using this method,one thing i like about using the liquid extract is if you want an extra kick you can always sub an on special kit tin instead. ;D
Well done Parky.
I'll be trying a version of this tomorrow with LME, wheat malt and flaked wheat - I'll let you know how I get on.
Cool, I'd certainly be interested in hearing how it goes with the LME. Only tip I can give you is to watch that boiling wort like a hawk ;D
No concerns around not sanitizing the DME in the boil?
That would be my worry...
QuoteNo concerns around not sanitizing the DME in the boil?
Sure, that's a fair point, and the sanitisation of the fermentables was certainly something that had crossed my mind. This brew day was very much a 'proof of concept', and finding a way to improve the process will be something I'll be working on next time around for sure.
My thinking is to borrow a technique some folks use when kit brewing, and use the boiling hop wort (or additional boiling water) to effectively pasteurise the DME (or LME) and other fermentables in the FV. There are numerous videos online showing this approach, but I think the one from Craigtube here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIuRjYnEZxc) (watch from 08.40 mins onwards) is a good example of what I'll be aiming at.
Quote from: Parky on July 13, 2015, 09:52:47 PM
QuoteNo concerns around not sanitizing the DME in the boil?
Sure, that's a fair point, and the sanitisation of the fermentables was certainly something that had crossed my mind. This brew day was very much a 'proof of concept', and finding a way to improve the process will be something I'll be working on next time around for sure.
My thinking is to borrow a technique some folks use when kit brewing, and use the boiling hop wort (or additional boiling water) to effectively pasteurise the DME (or LME) and other fermentables in the FV. There are numerous videos online showing this approach, but I think the one from Craigtube here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIuRjYnEZxc) (watch from 08.40 mins onwards) is a good example of what I'll be aiming at.
Hey, if it works, it works. Interested to try it myself now.
So tried this tonight. My take on Parky's recipe:-
1.5 kg pouch LME
400 g flaked wheat
400 g wheat malt
15 g Saaz hops @ 60 min (14 IBU)
Mangrove Jack M20 Bavarian Wheat yeast
OK, trying to make this difficult for myself with a large speciality grain bill. Because of this, split into two muslin bags.
Put 1.5 l water into a 2.5 l saucepan, and 1 l into a 1.5 l saucepan. Both pots brought up to 71 C; grain bags added. Steeped for 30 mins, dunking every 10 mins. Then removed grain bags to colander over another pot.
Poured contents of smaller saucepan into larger - total 1.0 l. Brought to boil.
Added hop pellets loose, nearly boiled over. Turned down to simmer and covered with saucepan lid.
Added drainings from colander (300 ml) and 500 ml boiling water. While boiling, sanitized fermenter.
5 mins to go, sanitized 2 l jug and flour sifter. Added 5 l tap water (@ 15 C) to fermenter. Sanitized scissors and LME pouch (I use the Craft Range LME, as I think it's the best). Poured LME into fermenter and mixed - tough going - maybe the pouch should be warmed first, but this will affect (probably only slightly) the final pitching temperature.
After 60 mins boil, strained hop tea into jug, then poured into emptied LME pouch to get all the gloopy goodness out. Into FV, for a total of 8 l. Topped up to 11.5 l. OG 1048 at 22 C. Did not rehydrate yeast - trying to keep it simple.
Result - 11.5 l wort using just equipment found in the kitchen. Started at 6.40 pm, finished (including clean up) at 8.52 pm. For this beer, a 45 minute boil would probably do, knocking 15 minutes off.
With a simpler speciality grain bill e.g. an IPA, just the 2.5 l saucepan should work.
Now hopefully the resulting beer will taste decent .... :P
Fantastic!!!, great work Dunkel ;D
It's wonderful to see that a beer can be brewed at home with basic brewing gear and a few pieces of kitchenware. And at around two hours duration it means brewers can be flexible, and don't have to wait until the weekend to scratch that brewing itch.
Like you say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and I'm looking forward to tasting the finished product ;)
I bottled the hefeweissen last night after 18 days in primary (see earlier posting for recipe and method). The FG came out at 1.012, so not too far off the mark. Batch primed with table sugar to give a carbonation level of approx. 3 vols, which is fairly typical for this style.
The Safbrew T-58 yeast used can be a bit hit and miss in terms of flavour in my experience, but I was actually surprised at how good this tasted straight out of the FV. The plan had been to add some citrus peel to the brew, but on the basis of the first tasting I decided to leave it to do it's own thing.
Early days yet, but here are some tasting notes -
Appearance: Hazy straw colour with tight foam head when agitated.
Aroma: Hop dominant, slightly earthy and herbal, but subtle banana in the background.
Taste: Too early to tell, but the hops dominate with a nice banana flavour on the finish.
Mouthfeel: Medium body and slightly creamy
Overall: Surprised at how nice the initial tasting was, may have gone a bit OTT on the flavour/aroma hops, but we'll see how they mellow over time, and that nice banana finish is a welcome counterbalance to the hopping.
Note on bittering: One goal in this trial was to achieve an appropriate level of bittering using a smaller boil volume. I've no way to objectively measure level of bitterness, but can say that the bittering felt 'about right' for the initial malt/sweetness of the brew.
Keep us posted, Parky! My brew stalled at 1020; so repitched with yeast nutrient and Mangrove Jack Workhorse yeast yesterday evening. Seems to have done something, as slowly bubbling this morning.
1020 really is a magic number for stalling isn't it. Had one or two stop there as well.
[Update: 10 August 2015]
(http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b607/Parky07/Extract%20experiment/IMG_18171_zps244ebv5k.jpg)
First taste testing, almost two weeks after bottling. The brew carbed up nicely and that hop domination has blended more fully, giving a more balanced flavour. This turned out to be a very nice beer indeed, with a warm banana and caramel flavour - think Banoffee Pie in a glass ;D
Some tasting notes to compare with the last taste test -
Appearance: Hazy caramel brown colour with loose foam head, dissipating quickly, but leaving some lacing on the glass.
Aroma: Warm caramel and banana flavour, with slight spicy fragrence on the end.
Taste: Similar to aroma, there is a warmth there of banana and sweet caramel followed by a slight spicy tartness, balancing the sweetness and giving a refreshing finish.
Mouthfeel: Medium body, creamy initially, but with a lighter, refreshing finish. Good carbonation throughout, which helped to cut through some of that creamy sweetness.
Overall: Pleased with how this turned out, a very drinkable beer, with a good mix of sweetness and tartness. I tasted this chilled and at room temp. and by far prefer this beer at room temp as it really brings out the warmth of the caramel and banana.
Note on bittering: There was indeed some bittering there, and certainly was appropriate for the style and well balanced with the overall taste and feel of the beer.
The million dollar question of course is - Would I brew it again? - Damn right!!!, one of the nicest beers I've brewed in months, great flavour from such a simple brewing technique (thanks Dunkel!), and so easy to put together. My next attempt at using this technique here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,10323.0.html), is a bit more complicated, but if it's half as good as this beer I'll be pleased.
[Update: 24 August 2015]
In addition to the above Hefeweissen, and the Old English Ale here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,10323.0.html), I had intended to test this brewing technique for a hoppy pale ale, to see if it would be suited to producing big hop flavours and aromas. But after tasting the Old English Ale it's become apparent that although it lends itself to a no-fuss brew day using basic kit, this 'small boil' technique has it's limitations.
Having tasted the English Ale, the principal limitation seems to be around producing enough bitterness to offset the malt sweetness of many styles. Not even a 60 minute boil of a relatively high alpha hop (10.7%) in a low gravity wort (1.010) seemed enough to produce the desired effect.
The flavour and aroma of the hops in the English Ale were somewhat muted, and really didn't come through at all on the initial tasting. I can only assume that the very small boil volume (1.5 L of wort) wasn't enough to extract the required flavour.
The Hefeweissen previously brewed was very good indeed with regards to flavour and aroma, but just didn't have a great amount of bittering - then again it didn't really need to. So, while I'm not sure I'll be using this exact technique again it did manage to produce a very good beer, and one I'm still enjoying.
So, what's the verdict?
Well, I gave this brewing method a fair go, as it seemed it could be an ideal way for brewers to make the transition from kits to extract without investing in a huge amount of kit. Unfortunately, it became apparent that the method (in it's present form) wasn't able to produce some of the elements we love in a beer - flavour, aroma, and an appropriate bittering level. In saying that however, it was a fun experiment, and I learned a lot that I'll be using in future brews.
So, in summing up, my one piece of advice to anyone wanting to try out extract brewing - buy a bigger pot!!! ;)
Great thread, definitely going to try this for my next extract brew.
a great thread guys, well done. it took me back in time about 30 years when i used to borrow my mums largest pot which was probably around 8L and take it to the shed where we had the gas cooker (in case of esb cuts lol) where i operated a similar technique to brew my concoctions, Easons on O'Connell st was a good source in those days as well as mail order from the UK. no internet in those days for sourcing exotic hops etc but we were students so money was tight and home brewing got us suitably inebriated lol