National Homebrew Club Ireland

Starting the conversation...

You will be talking about Christmas next
I think the important thing is this year it will be a members only comp with the focus on quality rather than what folks have in the cupboard.
Perhaps we could do a brew this style for the Nationals chart like a countdown clock.
I think the fee at a fiver is about right even though its not enough to run the event.
Close will be 3 weeks before the first competition so we need to have a look at the Diary and Rugby/Football fixtures in March
No marked lids or dodgy bottles 1L/750Ml this year so 500Mls only, the only exception being the barrel comp or wine entries 
It would be great if we can run an element of it in Belfast, I guess that depends how well the chaps get on with their first comp in the coming months.
what thoughts have you on Cats? I am guessing its going to be the 2015 BJCP styles
Also be nice to get some fresh blood to help and Judge.

Agree with all that CH. I reckon it'd be slightly easier to get UK judges to travel to Belfast as well.

Belfast would be great too but their competition is in October so we'll have to make a decision before that. I'd have full confidence in them though. :)

Quote from: Ciderhead on July 27, 2015, 10:45:42 AM
Perhaps we could do a brew this style for the Nationals chart like a countdown clock.

This would be great actually, especially as we can use it to get feedback from local club events before the competition as well.

Quote from: molc on July 27, 2015, 12:34:08 PM

Quote from: Ciderhead on July 27, 2015, 10:45:42 AM
Perhaps we could do a brew this style for the Nationals chart like a countdown clock.

This would be great actually, especially as we can use it to get feedback from local club events before the competition as well.

Alex Lawes has a calender  (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php?topic=9901.0)done up. I'll see later if I can adjust it to match up with the competition.

Quote from: Ciderhead on July 27, 2015, 10:45:42 AM
I think the important thing is this year it will be a members only comp

Personally I think that it should be open to everyone in our great island, regardless of their affiliation.
Separation of members and non members makes us the minority.
I know many non-members that brew and enter 'for the laugh' and their entry fees are always welcome.
It also means "screw you members. You no longer get a discount because we simply excluded everyone else"
Excluding Joe-Public only has the benefit of judges not having to judge as many beers. (if you don't want to judge beers, find another hobby)

Fly the banner - Let everyone partake - Reap the benefits - Make new friends.
Encourage better brewing.
Feck everything else.

TLDR: Restricting entry by NHC membership is pure balls. (in my humble opinion)

Well ok so here's the rub, members already subsidise the NHC comp in their subscriptions.  Furthermore we as members organise, receive  delivery, competition entry system, judging most of the stewards and publication of results.
What you are asking is for NHC members to subsidise the judging of non members beers, sorry that doesn't work for me as a paying member :(
What we really need, is like in other countries is for folks to join the NHC and not continuously offer them the same benefits as members without the subscription, the tenner membership only scratches at the surface of the real cost of running the NHC and the massive workload undertaken in a voluntary basis to keep this place running.
Yep we are a minority club of 250 paid and 1k total members, but we are not a charity we are. a Members club with massive benefits and a very low subscription.
Tbh I find myself going out of my way to try and help advise members, not so much everybody else and if that makes me a selfish soab so be it, I just know the guy that's paid his tenner is committed. I do like the discussion and would like to hear more from non members.
Without being confrontational about it maybe the point you should be pushing as a mod is asking all non members to join the NHC rather that giving them opportunity to win our comps?

Both LE and CH make valid points. The members organise and run the comp fair enough but excluding non members is like a gaa club having tryouts for an 'under 16' team and saying only those who played with the team as an 'under 14' can have a go.

What about raising the entry fee for non members? Say a fiver per entry for members and a tenner for non members? This would help fund the comp and discourage people from entering any old beer for the craic.. I know I wouldn't spend a tenner to have someone tell me my beer is crap if I didn't think it was up to scratch.

Quote from: LordEoin on August 02, 2015, 11:54:02 PM
I know many non-members that brew and enter 'for the laugh' and their entry fees are always welcome.

Excluding Joe-Public only has the benefit of judges not having to judge as many beers. (if you don't want to judge beers, find another hobby)

You enter the competition to try & win it; if it's feedback you want, go down to your local club and get involved. The beers entered should be hoping to score over 25pts, any less they shouldn't be there.

Most people brewing improves dramatically once they've met up with local brewers ; they talk about similar issues, how to improve their process & get better results.

As mentioned before, after some recent competitions, there were quite a number of very poor beers entered, that shouldn't have been submitted. (Get your local club or homebrewers to give you feedback).

When choosing the top beers in a competition, you are trying to distinguish between the differences/subtitles of one entry to the next. If the 'for the laugh' beers haven't been prejudged/approved by your peers & are really bad/flawed, it ain't pleasant & makes the day an awful lot longer for the judges.

Quote from: Drum on August 03, 2015, 12:37:17 AM
The members organise and run the comp fair enough but excluding non members is like a gaa club having tryouts for an 'under 16' team and saying only those who played with the team as an 'under 14' can have a go.

I know I wouldn't spend a tenner to have someone tell me my beer is crap if I didn't think it was up to scratch.

The €10 fee is a relatively small amount for any club (it's two pints worth), with the discounts from suppliers and group buy deals, the cost is more than recuperated within the year.

Repeat: don't enter your beers in a competition for feedback, get somebody local to do it. If there isn't a club local, work at starting one. There's a potential one starting up in Dublin 15 currently. Use your local club, it is wealth of knowledge & experience to be tapped.

Its a tricky question this all right!

What about non-members pay double as suggested and submit 3 bottles. The extra bottle is used to weed out the 13s

This can be sold as a "as you are not a paid up member we need to pre-assess your beer for the sake of the judges pallattes"

So if a non-member wants to enter 2 beers he may as well join up, and take the fast track into the comp!

Also "Enter a comp to get good feedback on your beers" is actually in the top 10 h-brewing myths.

Join a local group to get in-depth assessment and help

Members pay 5 euro per entry

Non members pay 15 euro per entry and get 'free' 1 years membership (even for example if they enter 3 beers it's still 45 euro to encourage joining up before entering the competition)

Simple  O0

I think having a costly non member entry fee is the way to go alright, as it encourages people to join, which in turn puts them in the community, which in turn brings them closer to meets and knowledge.
It's quite easy for the Dublin clubs to say go to a local meet for feedback, but the brewers outside of those areas can be quite spread out and have logistical issues meeting and drinking. Others may be able to brew sporadically due to time commitments but still make good beer.
Why exclude them. Sub 20 beers scream it without even a single sip. Just write it up and move onto the next beer.

Quote from: Drum on August 03, 2015, 12:37:17 AMWhat about raising the entry fee for non members? Say a fiver per entry for members and a tenner for non members? This would help fund the comp and discourage people from entering any old beer for the craic.. I know I wouldn't spend a tenner to have someone tell me my beer is crap if I didn't think it was up to scratch.

Not sure that would work. You'd be surprised what some people are entering in competitions and paying good money for.

Pob hits the nail on the head with his post. Trying to raise the standard of home brewing in Ireland will not be achieved by encouraging people to enter shitty beer in competitions. They get 10 sentences of feedback from judges they don't know and have no opportunity to ask questions. And judges just end up with sick heads and sick bellies. Nobody wins. The meets are the best outlet for inexperienced brewers.

I also wholeheartedly agree with CH about competitions and non-members. Given the immense amount of work involved in organising these things, I think competitions should be for people who want to be fully involved in a great community of hobbyists.

Quote from: delzep on August 03, 2015, 10:16:02 AM
Non members pay 15 euro per entry and get 'free' 1 years membership

Trouble is if you give out something for free people don't value it or respect it.

Better for them to buy into the idea of a years membership.

Also agrree that as most of our non-members are city based and near local groups we cannot ignore the solitary/re,ote brewers in our midst.

Lets not be too Dublin-centric about this!

Good discussion, a poll has been started in the members area.

Agreed it's a good discussion. I'll sum up the arguments.

Benefits of non-members:
Extra entry fees
Potential they'll sign up as members
Gets the NHC name out there more
Makes the competition more prestigious

Benefits of members only:
Less work involved so the competition would be an easier, more enjoyable experience
Member's efforts are benefiting members
Standard in theory should be higher, less bad beer entered as more is judged at local level

Compromises:
Charge non-members more
Allow judges to spend very little time on a sub 20 beer

In my opinion, if the competition is restricted to members only, then it's not the national competition anymore. It's just a competition for NHC members and that dilutes the accolade.

I've no problem charging non-members extra to enter.  Suggest €15 for first entry and €10 for subsequent entrys.

Quote from: Will_D on August 04, 2015, 09:07:31 AM

Quote from: delzep on August 03, 2015, 10:16:02 AM
Non members pay 15 euro per entry and get 'free' 1 years membership

Trouble is if you give out something for free people don't value it or respect it.

Better for them to buy into the idea of a years membership.

Also agrree that as most of our non-members are city based and near local groups we cannot ignore the solitary/re,ote brewers in our midst.

Lets not be too Dublin-centric about this!

The wording could be bettered alright, something like "€15 for non-members which includes one years membership to the NHC" or similar

(Solution) Non-Members: Get charged €15 for first entry (& €10? thereafter), this then also gets them a years membership to club.

Most other organisations require membership of a club/associations to take part.

The object of the competition is to differentiate between the better beers, not weed out the poor/sub 20s. The feedback given is to improve these further, and shouldn't be relied basic brewing errors (temp control, sanitation, handling/storage, etc).

Brewers also need to taste their beer before it's submitted, just because it tasted good two months ago, doesn't mean it still does now or in 2/3weeks time when the beers is being judged. (There will be good beers that fall on judging day, that's where the 2nd bottle comes in. If that is also poor/bad, then it suggests it wasn't checked beforehand).

Brewers need to get their beers assessed beforehand by other brewers, before they enter them. If you don't have someone local, ask here for somebody to help out.

The purpose of the NHC is to promote & improve home brewing. By being a member it strengthens the community & increases the group experience/knowledge. Members then associate & clubs form. The skills & experience is then shared between them, everyone learns new things. Better beer is brewed.

Feedback is given at a local level, preventing poor beers being entered.

Quote from: pob on August 04, 2015, 11:46:42 AM

The purpose of the NHC is to promote & improve home brewing. By being a member it strengthens the community & increases the group experience/knowledge. Members then associate & clubs form. The skills & experience is then shared between them, everyone learns new things. Better beer is brewed.

I'm surprised there's not more discussion on the forum about the nationals given that the closing date for entries is probably around 4 months away!  :)

A few questions I have:

- Have the dates and venues been confirmed yet?
- Has the divisive question of whether to restrict the competition to members been resolved yet?
- Is the comp going to be using the 2008 or 2015 guidelines?
- Given the increased number of categories in the 2015 guidelines, are medals to be awarded in all of the categories?
- Should we just let Rossa and Bren arm-wrestle for the "Best Brewer" award and we can all go home a bit earlier? ;)

Announcements coming very soon!  :)

Hoo-hoo!!!  :D

It's bubbling in the background.
Blup, blup...

Its no different to an open comp at your local golf club.

Members pay 5e for a round.
Non members pay 15e usually.

Both can win if they shoot the best round. Its pretty simple.

Announcement Imminent
No Non members as previously advised allowed enter, pay yer tenner!
More importantly get feckin brewing!!!

Quote from: Bubbles on September 25, 2015, 01:06:47 PM
I'm surprised there's not more discussion on the forum about the nationals given that the closing date for entries is probably around 4 months away!  :)

A few questions I have:

- Have the dates and venues been confirmed yet?
- Has the divisive question of whether to restrict the competition to members been resolved yet?
- Is the comp going to be using the 2008 or 2015 guidelines?
- Given the increased number of categories in the 2015 guidelines, are medals to be awarded in all of the categories?
- Should we just let Rossa and Bren arm-wrestle for the "Best Brewer" award and we can all go home a bit earlier? ;)

We are in good brewing form....no dought we work hard at it... we will be entering again, in fact we are already brewing a lager... but let me tell ye some of our kildare brewers are on my tail....nearly everything they know was learned from me  but I havnt taught them everything I know ;) ;D

On a more serious note...theres a few months to get cracking on the 2016 nationals so get stuck in...we are good brewers as Rossa is but theres loads of opportunity to beat us. As a community we done extraordinarily well at UK and yes we finished 1 and 3 in the summer but I took bronze from 5 uk entries... hassetbrew ( a very new kid on the block) took 2 x gold from 2 entries....yes with our support.......which is always open to nhc members.....we are very happy to help new and existing brewers move up the championship ranks...to myself and kellie its as good as winning the medals ourselves...

so get brewing for the nationals 2016 and get to a brewday down our way and do what hassetbrew done...one of the best achievements in the clubs history..2 gold from 2 entries in the tough Uk nationals ( LAB and Bristol brewers are top notch)...even I didnt do that...

GET BREWIN!

Fair play to you, bren. We'll meet on the day so!

I've got a tasty Belgian mashing as we speak. Hopefully will be an entry next year.

We are in good brewing form....no dought we work hard at it... we will be entering again, in fact we are already brewing a lager... but let me tell ye some of our kildare brewers are on my tail....nearly everything they know was learned from me  but I havnt taught them everything I know ;) ;D

:) I have cameras in your brewhouse bren. :P

Locking this thread too. Continue the conversation here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,14580.0.html).