Today i did some testing on my new Peco boiler setup with 2.4kw element,the exact model below.Using 25 litres cold tap water from 19C to about 80C took 75 minutes,it was sitting on a chair out back wrapped in a foam mat insulation. For a single element setup i thought that was not bad,however no matter how long i left it plugged in it simply could not exceed 96-97C and could not achieve a rolling boil. I left it plugged in for 120 minutes total and it never got above about 96.5C. ;D
Just for shitz and giggles i threw the lid on loose for the last five minutes and it went up to 99.xxxxx C and boiled great. Of course the lid can't be left on if boiling wort so what to do is the question. ;D
https://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/peco-beermakers-professional-boiler-32lt-includes-hop-strainer-p-2211.html
I should add i feel this is a great and inexpensive little setup and ideal for me going forward,the only glitch i have run into is that it can't seem to boil even 25 litres of water,a 2.4kw single element really should be able to handle that i would have thought ? Looking for suggestions on how to proceed other than install another element, i am holding that option in reserve as a failsafe. ;D
Wrap it in that silver foil insulation stuff for behind radiators. Will help bring the temperature up faster too
yea as soon as I wrapped my old one in reflectix stuff it made a huge difference. Saying that though it should boil the 25 litres. The grainfathers element is only 2kw and people seem to be getting a boil.
Guys i had it wrapped in insulation and it made no difference whatsoever,the speed at which it rises in temperature is not the issue,the issue is it can't do what it is supposed to. ;D
However i will try the silver stuff tomorrow,tbh i don't see it making much difference though. :(
IMO the reflectix will be a lot more efficient than a foam mat. The insulation will increase the speed and SHOULD help with the boil as well. Before I put the second element in my old peco it would definitely hold 25 litres at a gentle boil.
Didn't you replace the element with a charlie shiels one? Is that definitely a 2.4kw element as well?
Quote from: armedcor on August 10, 2015, 09:52:49 PM
IMO the reflectix will be a lot more efficient than a foam mat. The insulation will increase the speed and SHOULD help with the boil as well. Before I put the second element in my old peco it would definitely hold 25 litres at a gentle boil.
Didn't you replace the element with a charlie shiels one? Is that definitely a 2.4kw element as well?
I did have a CS in it yes,however today i received a replacement 2.4kw element from HBC(many thanks btw),works fine just can't fecking boil water is all. :P
Maybe i had unrealistic expectations but i did expect when Peco said it could hold a rolling boil that it would be able to manage it with 25 litres of water,i mean chances are if it is under that much pressure it will trip out with wort in there. :(
Sit a steel bowl on the surface of the wort. It reduces the surface area and makes the boil more vigorous. Bigger the bowl (or bowls) the better.
Quote from: mrmeindl on August 11, 2015, 11:55:17 AM
I just wrap mine in a fleece and it manages a rolling boil with 20-27L in it, are you sure the element is going the whole time? Mine was tripping out once because there was a bit of shite stuck to the bottom of it so I could hear it tripping in and out constantly.
Ya man it was a brand new virgin element,first boil test so all good on that front. ;D
Last brew i did i emptied the grain out of the bag and used it as a lid. This brings the temp up quicker, prevents a boil over and keeps bugs out of the brew
Would the grain bag not cause dms?
How long a lead was it on?
I rinsed out the grain bag and streched it over the opening, just like a lid. Would that cause dms?
Covering the boil will trap S-Methyl Methionine which is the precursor to dms. Vigorous boiling will volitise the ssm and dms throwing it into the steam and vapor. if the condensation falls back into the wort the ssm will convert to dms over time.
Cool thanks for the info... so much to learn..
Quote from: johnrm on August 11, 2015, 09:23:00 PM
How long a lead was it on?
Probably 10-12 feet from socket to element at most,i see where you are heading with that thought but i should point out first that a single 2KW element in my SS keggle has no problems boiling 25 litres. Also i did think of that and tried the setup in my kitchen with just the lead that came with it plugged into a wall socket,no extension,still could not get above 96.5C and nowhere near a boil. ;D
we had this problem when a couple of us were drawing off house line on a mini brewday, try a different socket
Assuming your electricity isn't 'different' then maybe the element is dodge.
As the big fella says, try another socket, or in a mates house.
Big fella! qui moi? Steady on there Kermit :P
I hear ye guys and i will try all the sockets in the kitchen but i am the only one here,there is nobody else drawing electric here but me on any given day,and tbh the sockets i used to test this Peco boiler are the same sockets i use to run my keg HLT and kettle,never had an issue with them. ;D
The thing i find curious is that when i used the CS 2kw element to test the boiler while i was waiting for a replacement original,well the CS 2kw was every bit as effective as the 2.4kw peco element,it still did not boil the 25 litres but the 2.4kw peco was no better and it should have been with an extra 0.4kw i would have thought. ???
I love the idea of the peco setup,so much easier for me to handle atm,i love the idea of a single vessel biab setup going forward,i got tired of the 3v big heavy keg setup and this was going to be my way of staying brewing but smaller and easier to handle,but feck me if i can't get it to boil 25 litres of water i am screwed. :(
The only thing that did occur to me is would the boil be more effective with actual wort than water given the higher viscosity of the wort ? ;D
The viscosity has very little impact and in fact wort boils at a higher temp than h2o. The exact temp depends on the gravity.
While coming up to a boil I leave the lid on. I take it off when I come to a boil.
I insulate my boiler as needed while boiling, including underneath. I also boil inside. Could the cold wind be evaporating enough to drop your temps?
Quote from: Frequent Sequence on August 12, 2015, 02:58:44 AM
The viscosity has very little impact and in fact wort boils at a higher temp than h2o. The exact temp depends on the gravity.
While coming up to a boil I leave the lid on. I take it off when I come to a boil.
I insulate my boiler as needed while boiling, including underneath. I also boil inside. Could the cold wind be evaporating enough to drop your temps?
That is a possibility with the wind yes except the Peco also has the same issue in my kitchen so in this case the wind is not causing the drop in temp,and to be quite honest unless it was blowing a gale with only 25 litres of water in there it should have no issue reaching a rolling boil. As to the viscosity of the wort i wasn't referring to the boiling point,the more viscous the liquid the easier and longer it retains heat,so if heat dissipation was an issue would the more viscous wort retain the heat better ? ;D
Also you shouldn't leave your lid on at any stage of boiling,however i did try that but as soon as i removed it the Peco boiler went off th boil again,besides that defeats the whole purpose of it being an "out of the box" boiler for wort. ;D
I think you should have a word with your supplier.
Get yourself a bucket heater (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FP-218-stainless-steel-portable-immersion-bath-heater/1387637847.html) to supplement the other element to the boil. Once boiling, one element will be fine.
No harm Greg but I had a peco boiler and it was a pile of shite. First element cut out at 80 degrees. The replacement element cut out over 90. Hopeless. In the end I stuck a cheapo Tesco kettle element in the thing and No probs after that. The hbc I bought if off subsequently advertised it to be used as a hlt only.
- Barry
Sounds like a series of bad luck. I bought one and it worked perfectly. As have others.
Greg I'd check the resistance of the element if you have access to a multi-meter?
A 2.4 kW element should have a resistance around 22 ohms , and a 2kw element should have a resistance of around 27 ohms,
Sometimes elements are rated at 240 volts (UK Voltage) ie 2.4 kW @ 240v which will give out less power at our 230v
Quote from: johnrm on August 12, 2015, 11:47:31 AM
I think you should have a word with your supplier.
Oh they are already aware,waiting on a few more tests to see what the story is but not a happy camper as of now >:(
Quote from: Bazza on August 12, 2015, 02:11:26 PM
No harm Greg but I had a peco boiler and it was a pile of shite. First element cut out at 80 degrees. The replacement element cut out over 90. Hopeless. In the end I stuck a cheapo Tesco kettle element in the thing and No probs after that. The hbc I bought if off subsequently advertised it to be used as a hlt only.
- Barry
Bazzza right now it looks like i am heading the same direction as you which pisses me off as i should not have to go messing around with it at all. ;D
"The boiler has a 32 litre capacity, and is fitted with a 2.4Kw element in the base. A tap is fitted to ease the emptying and sparging processes. Boiler lead is included.
Perfect for the all grain and extract brewer. Keeps a constant boil. Comes with hop strainer."
Kinda defeats the whole purpose if i have to go faffing around insulating and changing or adding elemenets with this yoke to get it to boil,the whole idea was to get a simpler more mobile single vessel setup. Ye can see the highlighted section above am i wrong to expect it to do what it says it can ? ;D
Quote from: Garry on August 12, 2015, 12:30:11 PM
Get yourself a bucket heater (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/FP-218-stainless-steel-portable-immersion-bath-heater/1387637847.html) to supplement the other element to the boil. Once boiling, one element will be fine.
I hear you Garry but why should i have to ? It's supposed to do the job as is after all. ;D
Guys i appreciate all the suggestions but if it doesn't work after the next couple tests it is going back and i will just wait until i build my own similar setup that i know will work,and here was me thinking jaysus this will be handy. :-[
Have it replaced by your supplier.
Quote from: johnrm on August 12, 2015, 08:19:14 PM
Have it replaced by your supplier.
After a couple more tests i may have to John ;D
I say don't waste any more of your (and people here) time on it. You have been more than patient. Time for your supplier to step in.
Quote from: johnrm on August 12, 2015, 08:30:13 PM
I say don't waste any more of your (and people here) time on it. You have been more than patient. Time for your supplier to step in.
I don't feel i have been wasting time on people here but either way i am currently running two final tests.I have the peco boiler wrapped in a lagging jacket covering the bottom and sides,the lid is on loosely to help it reach a boil quicker,if and when it does reach a boil i will remove the lid completely and see if it maintains the boil for any length of time,fingers crossed. ;D
Update: Using the setup above it reached boiling in 60mins and got to a vigorous boil,however as soon as i removed the lid it died down rapidly,i put the lid back on half way and it still died,went back down to its normal 96.5C in less than five minutes from boiling and stayed there. I am now going to try the silver/bubble wrap insulation,i should be able to get that to fit better than the lagging jacket and see if that can get it to hold a boil. ;D
Note: This is for informational purposes only should anyone else run into similar issues with the same peco boiler ;D
At this point, it seems clear that it doesnt work. Those heater elements may be dodgey.
I would just get it replaced.
Ummm...
as Nero holds up his thumb..... ;D
Quote from: Ciderhead on August 13, 2015, 03:44:50 PM
as Nero holds up his thumb..... ;D
Clever man,most people get that wrong ;D
Have been in contact with HBC and fair dues they have sorted out the issue,many thanks once again Shane and the team at HBC for great service. ;D