http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collections/ftss/products/ftss-temp-control-for-7-gallon-bucket-chronical
I am just wondering does anyone have one of these and how do you find it?
I am tempted to buy an SS fermenter bucket along with one of these. My current living situation doesn't really allow for me to get a fridge and convert it and my future living situation is likely to be the same, so I can kind of justify it :)
I was also thinking that it is better to have fermentation control than splashing the cash on a Grainfather. Any thoughts?
Cheers
BTW the malt miller sells these this side of the atlantic.
Better to have fermentation control. I don't and I miss it.
Quote from: BigDanny84 on September 03, 2015, 11:48:27 AM
I was also thinking that it is better to have fermentation control than splashing the cash on a Grainfather. Any thoughts?
That depends, are you currently brewing all-grain?
Fermentation control is by far the most important, 2nd real bit of equipment, everyone needs to buy. With it you can start to produce v good beer, whether kit, extract or all grain.
Presuming, you've bought a bottle of Starsan or similar & have a very good sanitation regime and, are pitching the yeast at the correct temp (buy a good) thermometer into the wort; 20°C means 20°C, not "22°C sure, it'll be fine". 2°C degrees make a huge difference at pitching stage (& for the first 48 hrs of fermentation).
A 2nd hand fridge with a 60w tube heater & a STC1000 (or BrewPi) should cost well under €100. This will do more for your beer than nearly anything else for the money. It can be used for any method of brewing & cider, mead or wine making.
@BigDanny: if space is issue you could also use the fridge as a kegerator when ferment is finished? Could you get a 2nd hand fridge/freezer, adapt the fridges thermostat for brewing with STC (orBrewPi) and use freezer for food for the house, then revert back to extra fridge space when not fermenting? Move to bigger house (Grabbing at straws here)
Thanks guys. Ya I am brewing all grain, getting some decent results but I'm guessing that fermentation could make these even better. Currently I leave the fermentation bucket in a place with a pretty constant temperature but it is bound to fluctuate at times.
The small converted fridge is def the cheapest option and I hadn't thought about doubling it up as a kegerator. My issue is that I'm backing living at home and my mother hates the smell from brewing and another fridge could be the last straw. Also when I move out it'll be likely that I'll be living in a flat.
If I do go with SS set up I guess it is equipment that will hold its value well enough.
Well SS holds it a value ish, but people still want a chunky discount from New before parting with their cash. Also even heavily discounted, it's expensive equipment that won't have as many buyers.
My concern would be that the cooling coil looks like it could be difficult enough to clean, and meticulous hygiene is essential for everything in the fermenter. I'd like to be able to get a brush in between the coils to ensure complete removal of any stuck on foam etc. and I don't know if this would be possible
Another observation regarding Cylindro Conicals in general, is that if you intend to reuse/repitch the yeast cone, some form of cooling on the cone should be considered, the centre of the cone of yeast can get quite warm and thereby kill off a lot of cells.
Thanks for ye're thoughts guys. I must investigate how easy that coil is to clean.
Note that they say "You suppy the chill"
All they are selling is a coil of ss pipe, a pump, and a controller and an insulating jacket.
If you have a source of chill, just wrap say 25 m of pvc tubing filled with water around the FV, lag it, have another coil of it in a fridge and fit a solar pump and stc! Job done
PVC tubing is pretty much useless for heat transfer, you need SS directly in contact with the wort to get good control. I use a SS coil that I had made up and it works really well. It's got a decent surface finish so is very easy to clean. A pump, STC and a electric coolbox to chill the cooling water (with a few frozen bottles to start off) and you've got an excellent cooling system.
Unless you are doing a lot of lager/pilsner styles.. Most fermentation setups need heat in Ireland instead of chill.
my "redneck" 3 Carboy ale chamber in the shed is just an insulated chamber with a computer, fan tube heater and an stc1000, it's surprisingly accurate and I have it set to +\~ 0.5 unlike the fridge which is 1 degree and a 10 Min delay for the preservation of the compressor, as it's well insulated and fan transfers heat quickly
Quote from: bier on September 05, 2015, 02:37:26 PM
Unless you are doing a lot of lager/pilsner styles.. Most fermentation setups need heat in Ireland instead of chill.
Have to disagree with this. While cooling here might not be as important as in countries that actually get a summer, the heat generated by the yeast during the growth phase will lead to a rise in temp of a couple of degrees (more in higher OG beers) which will result in a very different beer between a batch with cooling to compensate for this and one that doesn't.
Quote from: Dr Horrible on September 05, 2015, 02:11:09 PM
PVC tubing is pretty much useless for heat transfer,
Then don't tell that to the big boys who use a similar tubing to cool the beer lines, a.k.a. Pythons!
I'm pretty sure they use the PVC tubing for insulation and switch to copper/SS for the actual cooling section.
I tried to cool a batch with tubing way back when before I got the SS cooler and it was very inefficient. I think it took maybe an hour of pumping cold water through to get the batch to drop half a degree where the SS coil does the same job in a minute or two.
The FTSS got me thinking about building something similar myself (well, got me thinking again). I think that what Ciderhead described above is probably all you need, but looking at the FTSS, the guts of it is nothing special. Not to go too "Coyboys, Ted!" on it, but it's mostly cheap (in a good way) Chinese stuff with a bit of stainless steel thrown in. It's not worth anything like $250.
The controller looks like an STC-1000, available for about €10 (see URL below). The coil could be profitably replaced by one that's easier to clean and which goes deeper into the fermentation vessel (this one looks like it mightn't reach the beer if you don't have it very full). I wouldn't use copper in beer (fine in wort, of course), though, so you'd need a stainless steel coil.
The 12V pump they use is also available for very little (see below).
If guess if you prefer to buy than build, the FTSS might be OK. Still, if I were paying $250 for it, I would like if it was for a two-phase heating/cooling solution. It seems like they expect you to change hot to cold by the season, but that's going to be a pain if you're trying to keep an ale at 20 *C in a warm room or a weizen at 17 *C in a cooler room or a lager at 10 *C in a shed - which seems to defeat the purpose of the T control, doesn't it?!
[1] STC for €10, free slow shipping: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/50-99-Degree-STC-1000-220V-110V-12V-Digital-LCD-Thermostat-Regulator-Temperature-Controller-with/32222288784.html?ws_ab_test=201407_2,201444_5,201409_1
[2] Various pumps:
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?shipCountry=IE&shipFromCountry=&shipCompanies=&SearchText=solar+pump&exception=&minPrice=&maxPrice=&minQuantity=&maxQuantity=&isFreeShip=y&isFavorite=n&isRtl=n&isOnSale=n&isBigSale=n&similar_style=n&similar_style_id=&isAtmOnline=n&CatId=4104&SortType=price_asc&initiative_id=AS_20150906030652&needQuery=y
Something similar to the pump they have for €10, free slow shipping: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Mini-6V-12V-DC-Brushless-Solar-Water-Pump-Submersible-Motor-Pump-2-3M-280L-H/32384587369.html?ws_ab_test=201407_2,201444_5,201409_1
One word of caution in case anyone is thinking of using Glycol as a secondary refrigerant, make sure it is food grade or better still add table salt or dissolved sugar to your circulating water to get more cooling from the ice.
Salt or sugar is a great idea for recirculating cooling systems. Is there any chance that salt could result in corrosion problems for either stainless or copper (thinking of using a recirculated copper immersion cooler at the end of the boil, too)?
I casually mentioned a two-phase FTSS-like system. Well, they say in their FAQ that they may be working on something like that, but I think that any solution like that is going to have to involve two pumps, two coils, and two water sources. Otherwise, if you have only one volume of cooling/heating medium, you're going to be constantly heating and cooling it around the set point of the system and it's going to be really slow. Not to mention that the only convenient source of cold I can think of is ice water, and once you've gone through a heating phase the ice will be gone.
So... two coolers or perhaps insulated 10-15 litre buckets, each with a solar pump and a coil immersed in the beer. Put ice and salt water in one, wrap heating tape around the outlet pipe of the other, hook the cold pump to the cold side of the STC, the tape and warm pump to the warm side, put the T probe in the beer and.... it would probably work, but it's complicated. And with the coils and tape it's getting expensive.... Anyone see any simplifications? I like the idea of immersed coolers but this seems a bit much :)
I'd be of the same opinion, using the coil for both heating and cooling is too complicated. I just use a heating belt for the heating side and a cooling setup like you've described controlled by an STC. I think salt water would be a bit too corrosive, water on it's own works fine.
The advantage of the salt water is that your ice from the freezer will be at -18C but the lowest your circulating water can get to would be zero because at this temp it will turn to vice but by adding salt you can get down to -6C (it's how the Romans invented ice cream, with the salt added they could freeze milk)
Thanks, Dr H. I was definitely overthinking it. Heatbelt and circulating ice is probably good enough.
Anyone have recommendations for a good heat belt? I see some in the online shops, but the crappy 1980s homebrew brands like Youngs and Ritchies don't inspire confidence...
Salt - yeah, maybe a little bit would be less corrosive. I guess it doesn't matter too much since it's only the inside of the cooling coil Sugar might be better if you pump oxyclean through it to strip out the gunge. The extra few degrees would cut down on replacing the ice.
Yes obviously immersion is MUCH more efficient but cooling a fermenter is not like crash cooling a boil batch to piching temperature.
For lagering yo often you want a slow cooling ramp down and 0.5C per hour will still drop you from room temp to lagering in 24 hours.
Cheers for all the replies.
Ya they are adding a heat belt for it which will be good.
Cheers for all the cheaper suggestions and I will look into them. I'm not very "handy" so that's why I am slower about the DIY systems than others on here.
Let us know how you get on if you do go this route, would be very interested to hear about other people's experiences of this type of setup.
You should get in touch with brewbuilder.co.uk He does stainless cooling coils for 50 pounds.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CME10WrWEAA-WyJ.jpg)
You'll still need an STC & a solar pump but you've made the same setup as SS for a third of the price. Use a yoga mat or old wetsuit as insulation for your FV.
Ive also seen people use trace heating wire for the warm side of their FV temp control systems. Look into that also.
Immersion heaters like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Home-Brew-Wine-Making-Thermostatic/dp/B004O2K21W could be used for the warm side also.
Depending on where you plan on leaving your FV, ambient temp might be suitable as the cooling side. I dont know how cool your house is though. (My utility room is 15c this time of year & beer fermenting there is at 20c)
Without having a chilling method in or around your FV (either cooling coil internally, or a fridge to crash cool your FV or corny keg full of beer) you'll just bottle as normal & the yeast will flocc out in the bottle. You'll have some sediment but no big deal once your pour correctly.