National Homebrew Club Ireland

Just saw these are available now, had read a little about it..What's your thoughts on this bit of tech, love the open source ethos

QuoteWhat is Open ArdBir ?

Open ArdBir is Open source platform for brewing process control and automation based on Arduino. The platform is intended for single vessel RIMS system and BIAB process.

The controller automates all the phases: from mashing, boiling and hops addition,cooling up to whirpool providing all the capability to both beginners and advanced homebrewers. The system is interactive and programmable and can be configured via 4 push buttons and LCD display provides all relevant information in all phases.

https://openardbir.ecwid.com

I've being working on this for a few weeks, it which would be handy for anyone using either a Grainfather, HERMS/RIMS or even BIAB with a recycle pump.

It's a ArdBir /Brauduino Step Mash Controller that can be a dropin replacement for the Grainfather controller. It is a lot friendlier to use than the STC1000+. It's all open source, the diagrams & schematices were relatively easy to work off.

Grainfather upgrade with ArdBir (https://youtu.be/ZzJctwTmh10)

---

I'm going to use it on my own BIAB Keggle w/pump and I'll get Fishjam to tryit on his Grainfather & Ciderhead will try it on his HERMS.

Ignore my crappy dremel work on the LCD surround & iffy electric wiring; I'm getting a bigger project box and proper connectors (Nuetrix, GX16, IEC), heatsinks, etc. AliExpress are doing well out of me at the moment.

(Then I'll sell you all one & make millions & retire to a sunny island!!!)

(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss256/peterobrien20/Beer/IMG_4330.jpg) (http://s581.photobucket.com/user/peterobrien20/media/Beer/IMG_4330.jpg.html)

https://youtu.be/aeJzgWvUCFQ
Some video of it in action whilst holding the camera in one hand. Apologies in advance for out of focus iphone camera & lack of tripod.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/-XSS8dQx3KM
In action, with the auto steps you can set.

https://youtu.be/KZsxsEcLZRk
Initial test with a single element & ~20L water, a bit slow to heat but PID was very smooth (Flashing 'H' on left hand side as it pulses power). Very wobbly, one handed camera work while trying to connect plugs.

https://youtu.be/4xYWEeZ7Q-o
2nd test in Keggle with ~30L water and more dodgy camera work. I've tried it with 2 elements (& 2 SSRs) and just needs fine tuning the PID to match water volume size & element power rating, it was over hitting mark. Step times were set to 1 minute to speed up the process to see it in action. I renamed Step Mash titles to make it easier.

--
Step Mashs based on BYO article (http://byo.com/aging/item/1497-the-science-of-step-mashing)

(https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2k_m6uudoA1vvsHDtmLRn3MadLRobYScoJn-wQkoIHQcMOTvy_si8QR4IIDuNfIVJZ1uEVLtSaKLFgfX0CUp9AA__vMPG-QPLOCkCeQ1=s0-d-e1-ft#http://byo.com/images/stories/inside/JanFeb08/table2.gif)

(https://ci6.googleusercontent.com/proxy/w4yI0ev6H83Ej_h1aTcvd8ZHmFbYJYxmfwGP3HbtqI17Fjn-iPjE7ysP-XQpTI3gzd_EBdEzP3Mkaj_19kK37mwyu4qlKUXib63bpC8LVc1VmA=s0-d-e1-ft#http://byo.com/images/stories/inside/JanFeb08/untitled-4.gif)

Acid Rest:
Phytase:              5min @   35C
Beta-glucanase:  10min @  45C

Protein Rest:
Peptidase/Proteinase:         15min @  57.2C

Saccharification:
Beta-amylase:     20min @  62.7C
Alpha-amylase:   15min @  67.8C

Mash out:           10min @  75.6C

---

A nice video of it in action, albeit in Italian.
https://vimeo.com/138392796 (https://vimeo.com/138392796)

---

They're now designing a smaller, cheaper?, single sided board using the Arduino Nano, next on my list.

Ohhh, that's nice. I wonder what it would take to get an AirBir to work with OneWire. Then I could mod it to work with all my probes and do the control instead of the BrewPi, which seems to be in slight limbo, as they have bitten off more than they can chew I think... >:)

It is OneWire, uses the same DS18b20 probes and SSRs as the BrewPi.
It's very similar, very little to swap it in to where your BrewPi sits.

Catch you on Sat.

Quote from: pob on September 18, 2015, 12:47:26 PM
It is OneWire, uses the same DS18b20 probes and SSRs as the BrewPi.
It's very similar, very little to swap it in to where your BrewPi sits.

Catch you on Sat.

Just figured that out as well. Nice! Just need to make a RJ11 connection on the side of the box and it's plug and play.

Yeah, we'll have a chat tomorrow about this >:)

or use a GX16 type plug/socket (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/GX16-3-pins-16mm-aviation-connector-female-plug-male-socket/32299442379.html) @ ~€1.50ea

(http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/1203233192_3/Free-Shipping-5pair-10pcs-3-Pin-16mm-Male-Female-Wire-Panel-Connector-kit-GX16-Socket-Plug.jpg)

& some made up DS18b20 probes (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/40091-Free-Shipping-DS18B20-waterproof-1-meters-temperature-probe-temperature-sensor-new-in-stock/32355754668.html) @ ~€1.50ea

(http://modtronix.com/images/detailed/1/sens-ds18b20cab.jpg)

and you'll have new set for €3 (if you can put up with a 4-6 week wait from China)

First day brewing with the ArdBir, something for the Smithwicks Challenge.

Some pics & vids from the brewday (https://gcbrewers.wordpress.com/ardbir-mash-brew-controller/)

Fantastic & very easy to use. I was able to plug it in & press go, came back 20 or so mins later & water was sitting at strike temp, exactly to the 0.1C.

Two, very minor issues (one my fault);

• I need to get a louder buzzer, easy enough.
• When it asks you have you added the malt, once water has been heated to strike temp, press the yes button, otherwise it'll continue to heat as you're mashing in, Doh?   :-[

As I was adding in the grain I noticed it was still heating, "Why?", I asked. Oh yeah, the grain was cooling it down to the 1st Mash Temp as it was been added, as it should when you're mashing in (thats why Strike Temp is higher than Mash Temp), but the ArdBir hadn't been told that, by me, so it keep on trying to get back to the Strike Temp.

Once in use it worked great. I'll look at fine tuning the PID settings, they were very good. No overshoots, maybe a tad slow getting to the last 0.5C or so (settings a bit cautious?).

As it was my first brew with it, I just stirred the mash each time it was heating up, rather than using a pump. Next time I'll use a March/Chugger pump to allow recirculation. It's using two 2.2kW kettle elements running on two seperate cables (controlled by 2 SSRs) on a suitable circuit (would be nice to go all fancy and use those splashproof 16A plugs (http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00OSGtiClrEVcw/16A-IP54-220-250V-2p-E-Cee-Industrial-Plug-and-Socket.jpg) in the future).

Next steps:

• Fit all parts into new enclosure with larger single SSR heatsink.
• Fit plugs/glands for all cables.
• Fine tune PID settings (currently P=50, I=1, D=10)
• Connect pump

Looking good! Getting more and more tempted by this solution, but need to first work out a circuit diagram, so I can make a box with two power plugs and a some switches for the pumps etc.

Have you wired both SSR's to fire off the single output of the ardbir? Also, have you wired in the pump at all or are you just going to do that manually?

Quote from: molc on September 29, 2015, 11:53:05 AM
Have you wired both SSR's to fire off the single output of the ardbir? Also, have you wired in the pump at all or are you just going to do that manually?

Yep, the SSRs only need a small feed to trigger them (blue screw terminal on board, bottom right of 1st photo). The pump is wired up on the shield (black terminal), just didn't connect this time as I was trying to get electrics working first, I used the 2nd SSR to drive the second element.

For the next build I would use a single large SSR heatsink (for both heating SSRs) with sealing to prevent splashes getting into box. I will use a single Relay to switch pump (smaller & doesn't need PWM controll of SSR).

(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss256/peterobrien20/Beer/IMG_4713.jpg)


(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss256/peterobrien20/Beer/IMG_4714.jpg)

Could go for a bigger enclosure for neatness inside.
Current box size: (w) 165mm x (d) 140mm x (h) 85mm

(Proper mounting, earthing, cable glands, cable ties will be completed with new box, this box has been reused from other project.)

And for when the funds allow, go to something like this:
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss256/peterobrien20/Beer/ArdBir%20Electrics1.jpg)

(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss256/peterobrien20/Beer/ArdBir%20Electrics2.jpg)

(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss256/peterobrien20/Beer/ArdBir%20Electrics3.jpg)

Cool. Pretty similar to my plans, though I'm thinking 2x 16A inputs to the box, so I can power it from two domestic circuits. Then there is a 2.8kw circuit for BK, a 2.5kw HLT element, which leaves enough power to run 2x chugger from that circuit as well.

The last brewday, I actually used three circuits, with the pumps and spark on the third.

MkII board.
Neater wiring for Arduino board, grey flying cables trigger the heating & pump SSR/Relay.

(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss256/peterobrien20/Beer/10fc5f22-e0ab-4d75-b628-abb7c0e92ae1.jpg)

Some pictures of builiding an ArdBir Control Box for my Grainfather.
My goal is to unplug the original control box and just plugin the ArdBir control box and brew.

(http://i.imgur.com/fYkpvZYl.jpg)
The Open ArdBir all on one board

(http://i.imgur.com/peNu4uvl.jpg)
All the components, 2 GX16 plugs are still on their way from China

(http://i.imgur.com/xrTjnwzl.jpg)
Base plate, cut from the side of an old PC cabinet. With the power supply 12V=; the heating SSR and the pump relay.

(http://i.imgur.com/KtbcWvKl.jpg)
The box with the lid

(http://i.imgur.com/WJzvC9Tl.jpg)
Details of the front panel, beautifully designed by GutoSan. You can download the 3D file (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1016737) and have it printed on a 3D printer. Via 3Dhubs.com I found a cheap local 3D printer service. Check it, there might be some cheap 3D printer service in your neighbourhood.

To be continued

See thats how to do it properly.

What PID settings are you using for the Grainfather?

How much was the LCD bezel?

Quote from: pob on September 29, 2015, 01:37:06 PM
See thats how to do it properly.

What PID settings are you using for the Grainfather?

How much was the LCD bezel?

Thanks very much.

An experient ArdBir user adviced me to start with P=100;  I=20; D=5. I will make a temp curve of the Grainfather as well for tuning the PID

I bought the package from the Ardbir Webstore (https://openardbir.ecwid.com/) € 89,-- + postage.  The 3d Front panel was € 15,=
There is a panel file with round buttons and a file with a keypad. Make sure you have the right one.

@Pob

A quick question:
A Grainfather has a 2000W hetaing elemnt. Do you think I have to use a heatsink for the SSR?

Greetz
McMelloW

Yes advisable I ran a 3Kw on a 40A one, temp went up to 78 on SSR backplate, 24 with heatsink

Where did you get the grey box to hold all the parts?

About €6, similar to this.
http://www.switchcraft.ie/160mmx135mmx77mm-ip55-enclosure.html

Or slightly bigger, €9.36
http://www.switchcraft.ie/220mmx170mmx80mm-ip55-enclosure.html

You can get them from any local electrical suppliers.

Bigger box found & bits moved across.

Panel 3D printed (@McMelloW: thanks for link, great turnaround from Karl in Bray), it's an older version but fine for 1st version. I'll get latest version next time.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/05/018d1b3f20a5c51aa8c3304532ac4015.jpg)
Neutrik connectors added (From top: 2 kettle elements, pump)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/05/e135386e715b3802ab009ac8fa01d1c7.jpg)

Heatsink for both SSRs added.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/05/af29be34cbc7e1e6d90bf6659acff9a4.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/05/1a25a87e4370b0d5845d8958c0f7618f.jpg)


Plan to brew again with it this week.

(Ooops, just noticed mahoosive images, I'll update on PC later.)

Next: Grainfather version

Single SSR, IEC female sockets, smaller enclosure.

Looks nice, Pob

That looks really nice, I'm about to enter the rabbit hole and start looking into an ardbir. You're really lucky with 3d printing, down in Cork I was looking up to print a stirplate and the startup cost for printing alone was over €50 euro.

Thanks to McMelloW for pointing me to www.3DHubs.com (http://www.3DHubs.com). He's a link to the 3D model (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1016737).

I found a local guy who quoted €8.25 set up & €6.76 for the panel, approx 11.5cm3. He actually dropped it off as he was passing, great service within 2/3 days (if you're organised). There are a few versions of the panel so I'm just waiting to get the files of the latest version before I print again.

The newer panel (https://sketchfab.com/models/9e84d88c8d7a40b4a084d9cb394c94c4) is a bit thicker at ~14 cm3 (think some machines prices start at a minimum of 22.5cm3).

I'm sure postage if wrapped will only be a couple of quid.


[Eagle-eyed folks will spot the finish on the panel is a bit rough, it's actually the first panel that was printed & it warped. I'm using it just to put this box together & will use the much better finished version on on the Grainfather version (keep Fishjam happy)]

That looks really slick - I can't see the warp.
Good job pob!

Great job lads..this is a really interesting thread... keep up the good work..

Are all of ye using grainfathers or have ye built your own rigs.

Above one is for my BIAB Keggle with 2 x 2.2kW elements (& eventually a March pump).

Grainfather has a 2kW main heater for boil & initial strike temp (& a 500W for maintaining Mash temp).
Ardbir ignores the 500W and just runs PID on 2kW for the Mash & PWM controls it for the Boil

I think the GF heating elements need checking.

Its rating plate states 2000 W

It all depends on how the Mash/Boil Switch is wired?

If the 500 W element is not used when boiling it seems a shame to loose out on the extra 500 watts.

A bit of a rewire could then give us 2500 - would make a HUGH difference to the GF

Will have a look later

If they can be wired together that would be handy.

Oh, look more ...

(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss256/peterobrien20/Beer/IMG_4769.jpg)
(Wiring needs connecting up & temp probe needs calibration)

(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss256/peterobrien20/Beer/IMG_4770.jpg)
(Won't mention chuck tracks)


I need to look at making a bracket to slot into the existing GF handle. A long, thin steel/aluminium strap formed around enclosure should work.

Pob

Nice small box. You cut off the edges of the Panel?

The lower bracket is attached with a couple of screws. It can be removed easy. I think of removing the bracket and attach a kind of hook/clip at the back of the box. Just hang it on the GF on the big bracket. You have to push back the hook to release and unhook it.

I did some testing today with water. It all went pretty good.

Didn't need to cut anything, I'm using an earlier drawing of the panel.

Do you have pics of the bracket?

Were the PID figures ok?

Quote from: pob on October 05, 2015, 06:37:37 PM
Thanks to McMelloW for pointing me to www.3DHubs.com (http://www.3DHubs.com). He's a link to the 3D model (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1016737).

Only slightly off topic but worth it.
Just searched beer tap on it. You could have a handle made up for each beer you have pouring in kegerator.  8)

Damn you Nigel, don't say things like that to me!

Quote from: pob on October 06, 2015, 05:30:06 PM
Do you have pics of the bracket?

Were the PID figures ok?

I mean the bracket on the Graingfather with the 2 keyholes. I think of attaching something on the box like a beltclip you have a measuring tape.

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/---r3Y6PJoLw/TYDQ87blAcI/AAAAAAAAAXE/nCXJKtCufuM/s1600/rolmaat.jpg)

The PID figures did very well. P=100; I=20; D=5.  Heated 30L of water up to 70°C  At about 68.5°C the heated started on/off. When it reached 70°C  i ket it for 15min. It stayed between 70.00 and 70.25 all the time. Pretty good I think

For those who are interested:

A 3D brew controller case (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1063665) for the ArdBir and the Grainfather

Grainfather version ready for a trail run.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/12/6abce2b5b1568e57b4e80aa1c4b674dd.jpg)

Quote from: McMelloW on October 12, 2015, 01:12:22 PM
A 3D brew controller case (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1063665) for the ArdBir and the Grainfather

Love the group effort with the project.

*&^%$*^&&

I think I just blew up my DS18B20. Connected the 5V vice versa. It is showing 84.50°C
Resetting or switching off/on does not change anything.

I have ordered already a new via ebay, but it takes at least 10 days to arrive.

I'd say it's just one of the wires coming loose. Check all connections.

It normally shows (similar to) 84°C on immediate startup then shows actual, within a second.

Quote from: pob on October 12, 2015, 05:09:14 PM
I'd say it's just one of the wires coming loose. Check all connections.

It normally shows (similar to) 84°C on immediate startup then shows actual, within a second.

Checked several all things and all wires. Reseting the box. No I think it is gone for ever. But I have already a new one. This works OK.

My Open ArdBir is finished. Some pictures of the final result.

(http://i.imgur.com/UGNUMoMl.jpg?1)
Everything in the box and wired

(http://i.imgur.com/yu3yfRLl.jpg)
All connections. Plug & Brew. Disconnect and replace the original within seconds if needed

(http://i.imgur.com/UwefvWwl.jpg)
The back with a U-strip and velcro to hook it on the GF

(http://i.imgur.com/AQpQLxSl.jpg)
In Manual Mode

Fancy
Are the clicky buttons not better than the number pad?

Number pad, potentially easier to splash proof.

Both work, keypad a lot easier to wire up. (Mr AliExpress has some coming my way at the moment).

@McMelloW: have you brewed with it yet? Looking forward to seeing results.

Anyone know where I could pick up a simple 12V DC power supply and connection before the weekend in Dublin city?

Doing a brew on Saturday and want to use my new ArdBir with a mockup of the final circuit. I have a transformer etc on the way from Germany, so just want a cheap and nasty interim solution.

Also, for my version, I'm going to make two boxes. One, which will be connected to all the elements, will have the relays, 12V power supply and SSRs. Then, there will be a control loom going from this to the ArdBir and some manual override switches, which will be in a small compact splashproof box on the brew table, close to the action and the temperature probes.

Should build over the xmas, so will post pics when I do.

Quote from: molc on November 26, 2015, 09:24:46 AM
Anyone know where I could pick up a simple 12V DC power supply and connection before the weekend in Dublin city?

I can lend you a big one or what about using an STC-1000 (it has a 12v supply for its relays!)

Quote from: Will_D on November 26, 2015, 09:49:32 AM

Quote from: molc on November 26, 2015, 09:24:46 AM
Anyone know where I could pick up a simple 12V DC power supply and connection before the weekend in Dublin city?

I can lend you a big one or what about using an STC-1000 (it has a 12v supply for its relays!)

Will, you da man! I have an STC which I can use for sure. Just to verify, if I just wire one of the relay circuits with 2 blank wires. Then the relay, when active, will be +12V when it's active?

I don't use the cooling relay on the STC anymore, so I can just put two control wires from that relay and off I go :)

I've ordered a 3d printed front panel. The Ardbir I received had the two indicator led mounted to the right of the display so this is the one I went for
https://sketchfab.com/models/9e84d88c8d7a40b4a084d9cb394c94c4

Quote from: molc on November 26, 2015, 09:24:46 AM
Anyone know where I could pick up a simple 12V DC power supply and connection before the weekend in Dublin city?

Doing a brew on Saturday and want to use my new ArdBir with a mockup of the final circuit. I have a transformer etc on the way from Germany, so just want a cheap and nasty interim solution.

Also, for my version, I'm going to make two boxes. One, which will be connected to all the elements, will have the relays, 12V power supply and SSRs. Then, there will be a control loom going from this to the ArdBir and some manual override switches, which will be in a small compact splashproof box on the brew table, close to the action and the temperature probes.

Should build over the xmas, so will post pics when I do.

I bought a simple led-light 12V DC power supply for use within furniture.  My Ardbir uses less then 350mA including 1 SSR and 1 Relay

I have a spare supply if you need a loan, based in D15 if it's any good to you?

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on November 26, 2015, 10:16:57 AM
I've ordered a 3d printed front panel. The Ardbir I received had the two indicator led mounted to the right of the display so this is the one I went for
https://sketchfab.com/models/9e84d88c8d7a40b4a084d9cb394c94c4

Succes in boxing your ArdBir

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on November 26, 2015, 12:15:37 PM
I have a spare supply if you need a loan, based in D15 if it's any good to you?

STC has me sorted now, thanks to Will's point. Thanks though!

When the package arrived, the circuit boards, SSR, and temperature probe were all fairly obvious. There was no sign of the membrane keypad. I contacted the supplier, and held off ordering the front panel in case I was going to have to buy the 4 buttons. I eventually pulled the packaging out of the recycle bin and found the membrane keypad. It was in a folded and stapled piece of cardboard, which I presumed was to make the parcel more rigid. Anyway in the event that anyone else buys one check inside the cardboard before throwing it out, Doh!!

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on November 26, 2015, 12:28:13 PM
... It was in a folded and stapled piece of cardboard, which I presumed was to make the parcel more rigid. Anyway in the event that anyone else buys one check inside the cardboard before throwing it out, Doh!!

I did exactly the same thing on Tuesday :D Also, who did you get the front panel from? Need to get one made up myself, in black if possible.

I followed the link to 3D hubs earlier in the thread, and found a local guy named Tomasz
It cost €5.90 set up cost plus €13.68 for the printing €19.58 in total. I didn't care about the colour and I think mine will be in white, colourfab xt  and measures 22.8 cm3

Was doing some research on Ardbir when I came across this on youtube, might be of interest to some of yis running
Ardbir (unlike me, need to get my head around it first). Looks like theres still a few things to iron out but could be pretty kick
ass if sorted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7-Ymt2KGAk
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/brewmaniac/id1030609251?mt=8
http://vito.tw/category/BrewManiac/

OMG

Well spotted.

Now more time to spend investigating.

iPhone app looks v good so far (you may have to change store to download).

He just needs to release code for use to play with.

it's BFAB "Brew from a Bed"

OMG OMG OMG. I can actually go downstairs and monitor my brew while watching the TV. I. WANT. THIS.

What kind of cash do you have to depart with to get the hardware set up?

Would anyone who has built or is planning to build be interested in doing a how to guide similar
To LordEoins stc1000 guide. It would be great to outline the additional parts that are required

It would be a great benefit to all interested.

The unit ships without any connection diagram or instructions that I could find within the packaging. However I found the following link on line which includes the wiring diagram. The USB connection and connection for the membrane keypad are reversible so it's important to connect them the right way up. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/96o6i39o50llama/AAD3cgNyiUxKXF73_qjhm_uia?dl=0

Ps here's where I found the link
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=23783.0

Quote from: darren996 on November 27, 2015, 08:31:23 AM
Would anyone who has built or is planning to build be interested in doing a how to guide similar
To LordEoins stc1000 guide. It would be great to outline the additional parts that are required

It would be a great benefit to all interested.

A lot of the info/pics are above or in the links.

As it's not a fully off the shelf product, the way you set it up is dependent on your setup/requirements, eg you may want to use 2 SSRs or no pump, or 1 SSR & a pump.

Therefore the parts you need relate to these components; what connectors you want to use, what enclosure, even down to what buttons.

I've built 2 so far; one for a 2 element (no pump yet) BIAB keggle & a Grainfather one (one element & a pump). Both used quite different plugs and box size.

Even working out how/where to use a heat sink for the SSR impacts on enclosure size/shape.


Edit: Beaten by Sorcerers Apprentice

Thanks folks.. i will be doing one for a braumeister type setup in the new year i.e biab, pump and heating element I will throw a how to up for that when I get around to it

All docs etc start here: https://github.com/ArdBir

I'm going to be doing up a build with a control box and a electrics box, that I've been chatting about with Pob recently. Plan is to have a network cable connecting between both, so there is a small and light ArdBir on the table, with the SSR's, heatsinks etc all hidden away in a box safely. It also means that I can reuse the same electric circuit for a different control system if I build one in the future, such as the BrewPi.

I've attached a circuit diagram. Note the electrics haven't been mapped yet, as I'm still waiting on all the devices so I know the connections I'm going to be making. Going to put everything up on here and also on the BrewPi thread I have running for my build.

I've been living under a rock for the past few years and know absolutely nothing about Arduino or any of its spin offs. I saw the Ardbir as an alternative to a PID controller thanks to pob and have taken the plunge. So I will be watching this thread as I am sure it will evolve into one of the usual encyclopedia. I'm currently trying to order my stainless fittings from Aliexpress (10% off today btw) when they eventually arrive and I stick the rig together is when I will sit down and study the thing, but on the surface it looks quite straightforward (I hope)

Yes just solder two wires to the relay coil driver pads. These pads are where there is a U shaped cut out in the pcb to isolate one of the mains terminals. Make sure the relay is on and use a multimeter to check polarity and voltage. (do this first before soldering on the red and black wires)

Also tape over the mains side of the board where the big transformer is when test the low voltage side

Ultra simple build for the brew day tomorrow. Ssr connected to a plug socket which is turn connected to the ard bir on the desk. I can mark out the connection if people really need, but this is the most straightforward wiring, outside of all in a single box.

P.s., lunchboxes are great for testing circuits :)

I love the idea of this, wish I'd know about it before shipping over an auber pid etc. 😢

Are these something that can be programmed easily enough?, I'm ok with wiring an stc etc but wouldn't have any coding experience.

Quote from: auralabuse on November 28, 2015, 11:43:01 AM
Are these something that can be programmed easily enough?, I'm ok with wiring an stc etc but wouldn't have any coding experience.

You don't need any coding experience to load the firmware to the all-in-one-board. On the internet are loads of tutorials on coding an arduino. So if you wish to learn it it can be done also.

All in one board comes with the latest firmware already loaded, so you literally just need to connect everything up as the pictures in the online manual indicate.

They are out os stock at the momemt...balls

Quote from: molc on November 28, 2015, 12:24:06 PM
All in one board comes with the latest firmware already loaded, so you literally just need to connect everything up as the pictures in the online manual indicate.

You're right, I forgot it.  I have reloaded the software already a number of times, because I am changing bits and pieces of it.

Lads you are making me jealous....
I almost pulled the trigger on an auberins pid soak and ramp...thanks to CH I looked here. But do I need it? I'm rebuilding my rig to herms etc but only planning controlling hlt,pumps and mash tun at the min...hlt is electric and bk is gas. Few pints in so forgive me if I'm not clear

Quote from: Oh Crap on November 28, 2015, 09:26:32 PM
Lads you are making me jealous....
I almost pulled the trigger on an auberins pid soak and ramp...thanks to CH I looked here. But do I need it? I'm rebuilding my rig to herms etc but only planning controlling hlt,pumps and mash tun at the min...hlt is electric and bk is gas. Few pints in so forgive me if I'm not clear

Yes..yes you need it

Pity you can't pre-order.
Just OOS is a PITA.

Quote from: Oh Crap on November 28, 2015, 09:26:32 PM
Lads you are making me jealous....
I almost pulled the trigger on an auberins pid soak and ramp...thanks to CH I looked here. But do I need it? I'm rebuilding my rig to herms etc but only planning controlling hlt,pumps and mash tun at the min...hlt is electric and bk is gas. Few pints in so forgive me if I'm not clear

Haha, perfect, this forum is all about less than clear debate

Quote from: darren996 on November 28, 2015, 09:28:29 PM

Quote from: Oh Crap on November 28, 2015, 09:26:32 PM
Lads you are making me jealous....
I almost pulled the trigger on an auberins pid soak and ramp...thanks to CH I looked here. But do I need it? I'm rebuilding my rig to herms etc but only planning controlling hlt,pumps and mash tun at the min...hlt is electric and bk is gas. Few pints in so forgive me if I'm not clear

Yes..yes you need it

Quote from: darren996 on November 28, 2015, 12:25:28 PM
They are out os stock at the momemt...balls

6 in stock now, get in there quick!

Just bagged one.
Something to occupy me on Christmas day.

Good luck with the building of your ArdBir

Quote from: johnrm on November 29, 2015, 06:36:31 PM
Just bagged one.
Something to occupy me on Christmas day.

Me too, now to source all the bits and pieces for the build :

Yey bagged one....
What the f am I going to do with it 😬😬

Quote from: auralabuse on November 29, 2015, 06:29:42 PM

Quote from: darren996 on November 28, 2015, 12:25:28 PM
They are out os stock at the momemt...balls

6 in stock now, get in there quick!

Thanks buddy just got one...

Just got an email back confirming the nano will be shipped as well....

What's the nano?
Isn't that the standard one now?

Quote from: johnrm on November 29, 2015, 07:36:40 PM
What's the nano?
Isn't that the standard one now?

Shows how much I know...lol I'll be asking all sorts of stupid questions when I'm setting it up 😂
Nano pcb whatever that is

No better place for them!

Quote from: Oh Crap on November 29, 2015, 07:51:24 PM

Quote from: johnrm on November 29, 2015, 07:36:40 PM
What's the nano?
Isn't that the standard one now?

Shows how much I know...lol I'll be asking all sorts of stupid questions when I'm setting it up 😂

+1 on that

This is what you can expect
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/19cee3371cb9e747508af0e0ee4aebc3.jpg)
And don't throw out the membrane keypad it's hidden in the packaging.
The 3D printed front panel arrived last night. It will still need a rub of emery paper to smooth it off, plus I am going to countersink the two holes for the LEDS as the the little ring at the bottom of the LEDS is stopping the panel from sitting flush.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/3bdaeeaabcfb12f1b0b607507217bc11.jpg)

That panel looks great.

I sense a group buy for these. The setup cost is usually 1/2 the cost of materials.

An order for 4-5 of these might bring price down to ~€15ea.

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on November 29, 2015, 08:41:19 PM
This is what you can expect
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/29/19cee3371cb9e747508af0e0ee4aebc3.jpg)
And don't throw out the membrane keypad it's hidden in the packaging.

What is the benefit of the empty NANO PCB?

No idea

Might make a fancy beer mat 😆

I'll gladly take the Nano Pcb off anyone if they don't need it

Swopsies?

OK one beer mat less for me, pm me your address and I'll stuck it in an envelope

Plus one on the group buy, count me in. Are you all going to use this on a single vessel system?, or gonna program it to your own set up?

Quote from: auralabuse on November 29, 2015, 10:39:08 PM
Plus one on the group buy, count me in. Are you all going to use this on a single vessel system?, or gonna program it to your own set up?

Mines going on a single vessel

Bugger ye lot! There goes my Christmas bonus!

I'm IN!

So what to call an Ardbir pimped Greatgrainfather?

Answers on the back of the new banknotes!

@Pob: need a 3d printed logo thingy for this!

Yup put me down for one if someone is doing a front panel order :)

The nano pcb allows you to wire up an arduino nano, as well as the planned 12V pump controls and 2x ssr that they have in the pipeline. It's a fun electronics project but you can safely ignore.

Used mine yesterday and it did an admirable job, when I had the temp probe in the right place My usual setup is on the herms out, which works a lot better.

Tonight, I wired up a phone socket so it can take my existing onewire connections from the brewpi and it worked like a champ.

My lunchboxes are growing...

Did you set temp probe to 'External'? That's the setting for using it in the HERMS pipe work rather than in the mash tun.

Something to do with how the PID handles lag/delay in calculating reaction to heat.

Quote from: Will_D on November 29, 2015, 11:34:14 PM
So what to call an Ardbir pimped Greatgrainfather?

Answers on the back of the new banknotes!

@Pob: need a 3d printed logo thingy for this!

So who is any good at 3D printing? There are a few versions out there, I'm sure they could be used as start point.

(Puts serious hat on for a min)
Remember folks working with electrics can be v dangerous if not done properly.

Make sure you get an electrician or ask on here first before you plug anything in, if you are not 100% sure what you're doing.

You can't brew beer from a hospital bed (even with remote apps on your phone) or from a pine box.

Capiche?

Yeah especially if you have ever fried an stc or arduino ....
But you can't make omelettes without breaking eggs.
Fortunately I have never done that and so also jumped on the bandwagon to run a 3 vessel system so will be watching this thread with interest

Quote from: CH on November 30, 2015, 07:42:29 AM
Yeah especially if you have ever fried an stc or arduino ....
But you can't make omelettes without breaking eggs.
Fortunately I have never done that and so also jumped on the bandwagon to run a 3 vessel system so will be watching this thread with interest

According to my wife I make a mean omelette...lol, nah wiring stuff etc isn't a problem, programming it might lol... I'm planning on running this on 3 vessel herms setup

Yep that's what I have

There's no programming.

Just clicking through menus; mash in temp, mash time, no of hop additions, etc.

Really is v easy & there'll be someone here with an answer.

Quote from: pob on November 30, 2015, 08:13:15 AM
There's no programming.

Just clicking through menus; mash in temp, mash time, no of hop additions, etc.

Really is v easy & there'll be someone here with an answer.

Ah well then ....I'll be grand so..

I've requested a price from a guy for 3d printing between 6 and 8 front panels, I'll see what he comes back with

If anyone is interested there is a walk in shop in Rathmines that is a 3D printing shop.

I think I jumped too soon, it seems to be overkill for my current plans, it's in route so if anyone wants it I'll forward it on for cost :)

Overkill, homebrewing? surely a typo

Quote from: CH on November 30, 2015, 01:13:28 PM
Overkill, homebrewing? surely a typo

I'd usually agree with u but since in only automating the hlt temp it just might be

That's overkill! a €75 Auber pid and 150 chugger to avoid stratification would easily do that job for ya

Stc is the job for hlt.

Quote from: CH on November 30, 2015, 01:46:45 PM
That's overkill! a €75 Auber pid and 150 chugger to avoid stratification would easily do that job for ya

That was the plan originally...but the price difference wasn't that much..hence if anyone wants it...

Just had an email,

Hi


first of all thank you for your purchase and ardbir support


Your kit including all in one board and accessories plus xmas gift is
ready to ship


I have only a little issue with USB cable, I run out of this component
and re-ordered last week, I was expecting delivery today but still
waiting. I think it's a matter of 24-48 hours

As soon as the USB cable is available I will immediately ship your
parcel and send the track ID


thank you for your patience


Davide


PS if you don't need usb cable and you prefer immediate delivery let
me know by 9 AM tomorrow



Probably not to late to cancel as he won't have shipped!!

Was emailing him but my has shipped already...Ah well

My arrived yesterday....talk about fast delivery. All parts present and correct. Now to start building it...kinda excited now 😄

I think as a club we just bought all his stock over the last week. They're out until after Xmas as the earliest now :)

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on November 30, 2015, 09:27:18 AM
I've requested a price from a guy for 3d printing between 6 and 8 front panels, I'll see what he comes back with

Turns out he's a fellow home brewer and will do a special reduced  price, depending on how many units required.
If anyone wants to organise a group buy pm me for his mobile no.

Quote from: Will_D on November 29, 2015, 11:34:14 PM
Bugger ye lot! There goes my Christmas bonus!
I'm IN!

Yet to receive a confirmation on this order - about how long to ship to Ireland?

Oh crap ordered sunday and got his today. I got a mail to say he was waiting on a usb cable and then he will ship. So i reckon 2 - 3 days shipping

Quote from: Will_D on December 02, 2015, 10:29:26 PM

Quote from: Will_D on November 29, 2015, 11:34:14 PM
Bugger ye lot! There goes my Christmas bonus!
I'm IN!

Yet to receive a confirmation on this order - about how long to ship to Ireland?

Mine arrived Tuesday....ordered Sunday night

Yep another email tonight saying they will ship tomorrow, 10/10 for keeping customer informed

If somebody is not using the empty Nano board. I am very interested in it.  ;)

Mine arrived today..

Well thanks to Liam and Glenn I now have an ArdBir. Like others I am amazed that there is no simple connection diagram or even a link to Gitbub for the documentation. After all this is a €100 bit of kit!

Anyways thanks to this thread I now have the basics to proceed.

Qn: What is the USB socket for? I would assume that if it was a plug then into the old laptop. But a socket?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBzERqJOfCo

The usb socket is to connect the ardbir to pc for firmware updates.

link to OpenArdBir manual (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/96o6i39o50llama/AADXfvhR6ircfd-6rXgZxJcPa/Manuals/2.8.x/ArdBir%20Manual%20ENG%20(2.8.x).pdf?dl=0)

(It's in a Dropbox, you can download it or open in phone/iPad)

Quote from: Will_D on December 08, 2015, 03:46:09 PM
Well thanks to Liam and Glenn I now have an ArdBir. Like others I am amazed that there is no simple connection diagram or even a link to Gitbub for the documentation. After all this is a €100 bit of kit!

Anyways thanks to this thread I now have the basics to proceed.

Qn: What is the USB socket for? I would assume that if it was a plug then into the old laptop. But a socket?

This connection manual is in the Open ArdBir dropbox (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/96o6i39o50llama/AADiKg83hdhqfcjfC6Mo2MxLa/All-in-One%20Board%20connection%20manual?dl=0) But I will attach the pdf to this posting.

When you just use the board with keypad, you can use the USB port-cable and connect a cble to yoyu PC/Laptop.  I have plugged the USB-cable in to a phone power adapter for this purpose.
If you use Arduino IDE (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/96o6i39o50llama/AADiKg83hdhqfcjfC6Mo2MxLa/All-in-One%20Board%20connection%20manual?dl=0) you can upload your own software from your PC/Laptop to your ArdBir via the USB port.

Many succes with connecting your Open ArdBir. Any questions, just drop a line.

Quote from: darren996 on December 08, 2015, 03:48:37 PM
The usb socket is to connect the ardbir to pc for firmware updates.

Its a socket (the same as the socket on a pc) so no pluggy play!

Quote from: Will_D on December 08, 2015, 10:43:27 PM

Quote from: darren996 on December 08, 2015, 03:48:37 PM
The usb socket is to connect the ardbir to pc for firmware updates.

Its a socket (the same as the socket on a pc) so no pluggy play!

Sorry, forgot to mention. You need an 'USB to USB' connection cable for it to connect between your the PC and the USB cable on you ArdBir board.
See post #11 of this topic. Second picture, right hand corner. The blue cable, bought it at the local PC shop for only €6,95

Quote from: McMelloW on December 09, 2015, 10:46:55 AM
Sorry, forgot to mention. You need an 'USB to USB' connection cable for it to connect between your the PC and the USB cable on you ArdBir board.
See post #11 of this topic. Second picture, right hand corner. The blue cable, bought it at the local PC shop for only €6,95

Why didn't they just supply a plug cable? Very odd!
So the idea is just to plug into PC to download new code (if you know what you are doing) from the Arduino IDE.

Can it do anything else with the USB socket?

Also there are a few undocumnted headers on the board ICSP1 (2x4) and JP2 & JP3

One last question:

The all in one user manual states:
"BEFORE any operation please remember to run a COMPLETE set up of the PID-PWM configuration and unit parameter configuration
All details are reported in the user manual"

Does this mean you have to check and set up every parameter as described from page 5 onwards or are they shipped with working defaults

A timely tip, check the power supply plug tops on your old broken Christmas lights some may be 12v dc

Anyone know can a manual pwm control be connected to the board i.e a hardware dial. Cant see owt in the manuals

There's already a pwm option in the menu, however as others have mentioned support info is sparse.

Ah yeah, i know its there in software throigh the menu, but it would be nice to have a dial control on the box..cheers

When it's boiling you have the buttons (up/down or 1&2 with flat strip) to decrease/increase % for the PWM.

(https://i1.wp.com/i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss256/peterobrien20/Beer/IMG_4625.jpg?zoom=2)

Way handier & easier to control than rotary dial.

Quote from: pob on December 09, 2015, 02:59:20 PM
When it's boiling you have the buttons (1&2) to decrease/increase % for the PWM. Way handier & easier to control than rotary dial.

Yeah a lot handier, thanks

The software is open source build by a number of different people. It is a bit difficult to do software support. You have to find it in forums etc.

Is it possible to operate as a PID controller and a PWM at the same time? I was hoping that I could throttle back the power to the RIMS heater using PWM while at the same time using the PID to control the mash temperature ?

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on December 09, 2015, 03:18:35 PM
Is it possible to operate as a PID controller and a PWM at the same time? I was hoping that I could throttle back the power to the RIMS heater using PWM while at the same time using the PID to control the mash temperature ?

In manual mode the PID switches to PWM when to set temperature is reached. And this set temperature is also within the boiling range. The PID / PWM output is send to the heat connection. You can find it in the manual
I don't think it is possible the way you want it.

Thanks McMelloW I'll send an email to Davide to see if he has any ideas

How are ye fellow ardbir builders going to mount the temp probe in your kettles?

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on December 09, 2015, 03:45:55 PM
Thanks McMelloW I'll send an email to Davide to see if he has any ideas

I think you are talking about a multi vessel system. The Open Ardbir is for a single vessel system

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on December 09, 2015, 03:18:35 PM
Is it possible to operate as a PID controller and a PWM at the same time? I was hoping that I could throttle back the power to the RIMS heater using PWM while at the same time using the PID to control the mash temperature ?

In the Setup (hold for right button (4) for 4-5 secs)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/09/4db49d8627c01d64dc24ae011fbbbf7c.jpg)

> PID-PWM

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/09/fc955dd7d5469d45ec1ab6324d75c770.jpg)

> (7th click/step) Heat in Boil %, this will allow you to throttle back the power to the RIMS heater.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/09/dedf1b38b959399c29641fb43d245692.jpg)

It then runs the PID as normal in your mash phase.

When you go to boil, you may need to increase power up for kettle elements to 100% to get to boil (& reduce if necessary to keep rolling boil)


(Feck Apple's australian camera settings)

Thanks pob my intention is to ignore the pump outlet but switch the different elements via a selector switch and possibly use a stand alone PID for the HLT. This will allow me to heat the sparge seperately.

Ps here's the response from Ardbir


Hi, I am Max, the code man.
The PWM control  is used on Boil, in the mash is used the PID control only around 4°C on SetPoint.
You can try to reduce the kP value on PID control or change the output value on the code.

Hi folks i am waiting on neutrik connectors, anyone know what size hole to drill for them

Be patient.

Wait until you are holding them in your hand, measured twice before cutting any holes.

Nothing worse than cutting bigger than needed & ruining an enclosure. Never presume all connectors are same size especially if a copy from Ali or eBay.

Quote from: pob on December 12, 2015, 12:57:21 PM
Be patient.

Wait until you are holding them in your hand, measured twice before cutting any holes.

Nothing worse than cutting bigger than needed & ruining an enclosure. Never presume all connectors are same size especially if a copy from Ali or eBay.

Too true... thanks

Just been going through the setup menu.

I was a bit surprised that the Temperature offset was set at +5C in the code.

Does this mean that the other parameters need a bit of tunning?

If so what are the suggested PID parameters etc for a grainfather application!

Yeah the offset is bonkers if you don't change it. I was doing an ice water calibration of the probe when I noticed it! For my first use, I used it side by side with my BrewPi sensors to make sure it was working somewhat reliably.

For my setup, I'm using the following PID values:

• P: 100
• I: 20
• D: 5

This is based off the values posted by Pob before. Everything stayed in the correct range with these with no real swings or variances during the mash. I don't expect the Grainfather to be much different, especially one as insulated as yours.

Cheers Colm!  :)

How are these optimised as a regular pid learns?

The PID values would have been originally calculated & tuned from the PID libraries.

Then updated from experience.

The PID adjusts as it heats = learns?

I bench tested mine.
Really cool bit of kit.

Anyone source a threaded ds18b20 probe ? I see brewpi have a threaded onewire probe but I am not 100% that this is compatible

It's compatible. I wired a phone port to the correct pins and it worked fine. Note they're in a slightly different order in brewpi. It's great now though, as I swap sensors depending on what I want to control against.

Quote from: molc on December 16, 2015, 04:43:51 PM
It's compatible. I wired a phone port to the correct pins and it worked fine. Note they're in a slightly different order in brewpi. It's great now though, as I swap sensors depending on what I want to control against.

Cool..thanks going to order one there now

Any one got any info on what to do with the free Nano board that was shipped?

It looks like it has double the capacity ( ie 2 pumps, 2 DS1820s, 2 heater drivers etc)

I assume there is more info on the web but so far can't find it!

It's for an arduino nano. The extra etched lanes support 2 12v circuits and 2 temp probes,  but there's no update written for the ardbir firmware to use that. They have a "plan" but it was delayed for the grainfather work and they haven't said what it is.

Quote from: molc on December 19, 2015, 06:53:06 PM
It's for an arduino nano. The extra etched lanes support 2 12v circuits and 2 temp probes,  but there's no update written for the ardbir firmware to use that. They have a "plan" but it was delayed for the grainfather work and they haven't said what it is.

Cheers Colm for that.

However my point is what about the hardware need to populate the board? Someone must know what the descreets are? Agreed the software comes later but there has to be a hardware design somewhere!

No populated board equates to "no software developement"!

Check out the github. I know I saw a full parts list for it before and catalogued it in the "must look at later" section of my brain :)

Double sided beer mat?

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/20/cb0e6321215447bff03989ee41d76a57.jpg)

Coming close to the end of my single vessel brewing system build, ardbir nearly complete, just waiting on a threaded temp probe.

Have to say the features on the ardbir are great and it is a nice bit of kit.

Having an issue with the pid settings at the mo, it takes a long time to hit the last degree even using pobs pid settings.

Looking forward to getting my first brew on over the Christmas

Looks very good Darren

Quote from: McMelloW on December 20, 2015, 06:28:35 PM
Looks very good Darren

Thanks McMelloW, your build and pobs got me interested in it, looking forward to getting a bit of time to put it through its paces..

I have this sitting in a press at home. It's a project for 2016. At this stage it seems very daunting. If anyone gets the time to put up a guide to, similar to the excellent stc one I would be eternally grateful.

Quote from: auralabuse on December 20, 2015, 10:17:42 PM
I have this sitting in a press at home. It's a project for 2016. At this stage it seems very daunting. If anyone gets the time to put up a guide to, similar to the excellent stc one I would be eternally grateful.

If you can put a pid contoller together you will fly through this. It is very straight forward for a single vessel setup.  I am planning a guide on my full vessel brewing system when it is finished, this will include the ardbir build..

Lovely, that would be a huge help Darren

Hi guys

I have created a GitHub repository with all files for ArdBir NANO version including Eagle schematic and PCB

You have two building options: one with LCD mounted component side and other one solder side !

github.com/arzaman/Open-ArdBir-NANO (https://github.com/arzaman/Open-ArdBir-NANO)

enjoy and let me know your feedback  :)

Davide


[Edit: link fixed]

Thank you Davide (Mr ArdBir),

Quite a few big fans of your work here.

Now have more things to play with over Christmas.

Thanks Davide and welcome to the NHC!

Thanks again for all your hard work on this project.

Unfortunateley that github link isn't working!

Quote from: pob on December 23, 2015, 09:48:30 AM
Thank you Davide (Mr ArdBir),

Quite a few big fans of your work here.

Now have more things to play with over Christmas.

+1.. Thanks Davide.

Quote from: arzaman on December 22, 2015, 11:58:45 PM

https://github.com/arzaman/Open-ArdBir-NANO (https://github.com/arzaman/Open-ArdBir-NANO)

Davide

Working! the link is:
https://github.com/arzaman/Open-ArdBir-NANO (https://github.com/arzaman/Open-ArdBir-NANO)

Thank you so much for your warm welcome and I apologize with forum admin if don't introduce myself officially
But Xmas time is always crazy and I'm really in the fog..nevertheless I would like to provide you this little present befrore xmas

enjoy , have nice Xmas time with great beer and stay tuned for 2016 news !|

David

Can't wait to see what you have planned and great to see you on the forums. We may have cleared out your stock before Christmas here in Ireland :)

Built a control box for mine finally out of a black brushed steel box from aliexpress. Also put in some override switches.

Still need some proper wiring, to allow it to be disconnected from the ssrs but looks pretty nice I think.

The Dark Knight Rises... nice.. looks very tidy

+1 Looks good

Looks like my ZX81 but probably has more power

Quote from: molc on December 24, 2015, 06:15:32 PM
Built a control box for mine finally out of a black brushed steel box from aliexpress. Also put in some override switches.

Still need some proper wiring, to allow it to be disconnected from the ssrs but looks pretty nice I think.

Looks very nice. Molc. The switches are used to switch the 12V lines to your relay and ssr?

Quote from: McMelloW on December 25, 2015, 01:35:08 PM

Quote from: molc on December 24, 2015, 06:15:32 PM
Built a control box for mine finally out of a black brushed steel box from aliexpress. Also put in some override switches.

Still need some proper wiring, to allow it to be disconnected from the ssrs but looks pretty nice I think.

Looks very nice. Molc. The switches are used to switch the 12V lines to your relay and ssr?

Yup, switches will trigger the relays for the pumps and also have overrides for each ssr. They are also leds, so can wire them up as status lights as well.
Going to have a network cable from this to a box with ssr s, relays and 240 - 12v adaptor.

Did you have to cut the display case for the display?

Quote from: auralabuse on December 25, 2015, 06:18:39 PM
Did you have to cut the display case for the display?

Dad got me a jigsaw for Christmas. It's way more fun than it should be ;)

Aha, nice

Hi folks I am using a 12v pump that I have connected straight to the ardbir 12v pump connector and it is working fine.

I see folks are using a pump relay even with 12v pumps. The question is why would you use a pump relay with a 12v pump.

@McMelloW what relay are you using

Thanks folks

The contacts on the relay on the board have a max current rating. They can easily switch the small load of a relay coil or ssr but may burn out depending upon the current rating of the pump.

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on December 26, 2015, 02:00:04 PM
The contacts on the relay on the board have a max current rating. They can easily switch the small load of a relay coil or ssr but may burn out depending upon the current rating of the pump.

Thanks.. so the relay is a good option even for 12v, it will protect the board

Exactly

Just as some background, DC voltage is much more severe on relay contacts than AC due to the fact that DC causes more arcing. Therefore when you are buying a relay it will have a lower switch current rating than if it was switching AC. So check the DC contact rating as it can be as low as 50% of the AC rating

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on December 26, 2015, 02:21:54 PM
Just as some background, DC voltage is much more severe on relay contacts than AC due to the fact that DC causes more arcing. Therefore when you are buying a relay it will have a lower switch current rating than if it was switching AC. So check the DC contact rating as it can be as low as 50% of the AC rating

Thanks for the reply.. this is a bit over my head...
Am I looking for something like this to swithc/power a 12v pump.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/5V-12V-24V-10A-1-Channel-Relay-Module-Optocoupler-H-L-Level-Triger-for-Arduino-/131584267865?var=&hash=item1ea3089659:m:mDBIexHsWx7fhkZecRuGDqQ

That'll do fine, the heaviest rated solar pump I can see doing a quick search is rated at (12v) 3 amps, the relay you linked to is rated at 10 amps so plenty of leeway there 👍

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on December 26, 2015, 04:01:11 PM
That'll do fine, the heaviest rated solar pump I can see doing a quick search is rated at (12v) 3 amps, the relay you linked to is rated at 10 amps so plenty of leeway there 👍

Much appreciated..thanks

Could you wire a pump and solenoid valve into this if you wanted simultaneous triggering of both, as long as the combined ampage was below 10?

Quote from: darren996 on December 26, 2015, 11:56:49 AM
Hi folks I am using a 12v pump that I have connected straight to the ardbir 12v pump connector and it is working fine.

I see folks are using a pump relay even with 12v pumps. The question is why would you use a pump relay with a 12v pump.

@McMelloW what relay are you using

Darren, the Grainfather has a 220V pump. My relay (https://www.conrad.nl/nl/relaisplaat-rel-pcb1-met-relais-12-vdc-spoel-conrad-rel-pcb1-1-12-v-1-wisselaar-max-16-a-250-v-503308.html) is an 12V coil and 16A/250V~ switch. I bought it on a Dutch webshop.

What's the solenoid being used for? For a valve for the pump?

Remember you don't want to allow the pump run dry so you'd usually leave it open to allow the pump to prime (prevent any air gaps/cavitation).

10A should be fine.

Quote from: McMelloW on December 26, 2015, 09:45:27 PM

Quote from: darren996 on December 26, 2015, 11:56:49 AM
Hi folks I am using a 12v pump that I have connected straight to the ardbir 12v pump connector and it is working fine.

I see folks are using a pump relay even with 12v pumps. The question is why would you use a pump relay with a 12v pump.

@McMelloW what relay are you using

Darren, the Grainfather has a 220V pump. My relay (https://www.conrad.nl/nl/relaisplaat-rel-pcb1-met-relais-12-vdc-spoel-conrad-rel-pcb1-1-12-v-1-wisselaar-max-16-a-250-v-503308.html) is an 12V coil and 16A/250V~ switch. I bought it on a Dutch webshop.

Thanks for the info. I ordered a 1 channel relay, I probably would have damaged the board the way I had it wired i.e. 12v pump straight to board. Its cheaper to teplace a relay

Quote from: pob on December 26, 2015, 09:49:31 PM
What's the solenoid being used for? For a valve for the pump?

Remember you don't want to allow the pump run dry so you'd usually leave it open to allow the pump to prime (prevent any air gaps/cavitation).

10A should be fine.

Yeah, for an automatic open/close for the pump, otherwise gravity will push water from the hlt to mash tun

Slightly confused on your process.

Why is solenoid open/on when pumping? Is it for sparging or recirculating?

I have not put the ardbir in yet but have automation in other ways. So hlt has a pump and solenoid attached. Solenoid is normal state closed. When hlt hits required temp solenoid opens and pump starts pumping to mash tun. Then after mash time mash tun will open solenoid and pump to boiler while hlt will do same for sparging. I just jig the hose around if recirculating or pumping to boiler

Brewing a Blonde with the Grainfather and my Open ArdBir. It is great to brew with this installation. The top kettle is for sparge water. I also have to make a Graincoat for the grainfather

(http://i.imgur.com/Bi5snYnl.jpg?1)

Looks good. You get to brew indoors! I have been banished to the shed.

Maybe he's got a class shed.

- Barry

Darren.

For a Grainfather. You only need socket for the power of the GF and your sparge water. And a hose or a tap for cooling water. So it is easy to brew in a shed. My shed is to dusty and messy.

I do brew in the kitchen. Brewing with a GF is quite clean, no big mess and less equipment to set up. Also with dry weather I brew outside next to the kitchen. This keeps the damp during boiling out of the kitchen. Carry the brew water with a 5L jug to the GF.  I use the gardenhose for cooling. 

Yeah, i have brewed indoors a few times but my missus wasn't happy, too much condensation on the ceiling and wasnt too happy about the smell. I got the shed wired recently so looking forward to getting a brew on and not worrying about the weather or bird poop

I would say bird shit in my beer when I was boiling would be lucky

Quote from: CH on December 27, 2015, 07:45:12 PM
I would say bird shit in my beer when I was boiling would be lucky

Happy Christmas McMelloW and welcome,

Very nice GF/Ardbir install. Where did you get the white pannel that's then mounted on the project box?

Do you live in Holland by any chance?

Quote from: darren996 on December 27, 2015, 07:45:45 PM

Quote from: CH on December 27, 2015, 07:45:12 PM
I would say bird shit in my beer when I was boiling would be lucky

Quote from: Will_D on December 27, 2015, 08:01:55 PM
Happy Christmas McMelloW and welcome,

Very nice GF/Ardbir install. Where did you get the white pannel that's then mounted on the project box?

Do you live in Holland by any chance?

Thanks Will.  The panel is designed by Guto Santaella and you can download the 3D model here (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1016737). Find a cheap 3D printing service and get it printed.  That's what I did

Yes I do live in Utrecht, The Netherlands

Quote from: Will_D on December 27, 2015, 08:01:55 PM
Where did you get the white pannel that's then mounted on the project box?

Happy Christmas Mr D.

Now keep up with the program... ;)

here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,10671.msg132743.html#msg132743)
here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,10671.msg133118.html#msg133118)
here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,10671.msg133699.html#msg133699)
here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,10671.msg137142.html#msg137142)
here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,10671.msg137167.html#msg137167)
& probably most importantly
here (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,10671.msg137652.html#msg137652)


[Edit: beaten by bloomin' slow typing again & a Happy Christmas to McMellow for pointing us in the 3DHubs direction]

Thanks pob and McMellow, thats the trouble with long posts you forget about the previous content.

So its just a question of is anyone going to organise this buy or is it up to individuals?

So if I want to use the keypad version of the all-in-one boards we got recently I need to have printed:

key_padring.stl
all-in-one_Front_Panel.stl as it has holes for the two leds
spacers.stl

To help me I found this free stl viewer:
http://www.viewstl.com/ (http://www.viewstl.com/)

So I could tell the difference tween the various files :)

Ok, Many thanks to all, this all-in-one project is progressing. I got some quotes from 3d printers for the 3 bits I mentioned at around €15 plus postage (unspecified). In termws of GBs: 3d printing is always a one off so getting bulk discounts is a bit of a none starter (as there are no bulk savings apart from postage!).

On another point thanks to Davide, we now have the component lists for the Nano PCB. There appears to be no software yet!.

@Davide: Have you any User requirements or System Requirements that you used as the basis of the hardware design ( URD & SRD )?

Most of the low level code will be the same as the existing A-I-O project, but what about the duality of the sensors/pumps/heaters?

Hi Will, I am looking to get the all in one 3d front panel printed but cant find anyone locally(Kilkenny) where did you get the quotes and can they be purchased online?


   

Quote from: darren996 on December 28, 2015, 09:28:17 PM
Hi Will, I am looking to get the all in one 3d front panel printed but cant find anyone locally(Kilkenny) where did you get the quotes and can they be purchased online?

Try 3Dhubs.com   or google for 3D printing service

Quote from: McMelloW on December 28, 2015, 09:39:50 PM

Quote from: darren996 on December 28, 2015, 09:28:17 PM
Hi Will, I am looking to get the all in one 3d front panel printed but cant find anyone locally(Kilkenny) where did you get the quotes and can they be purchased online?

Try 3Dhubs.com   or google for 3D printing service

3dhubs will do the job...thanks

Got around to my first brew yesterday with the ardbir and while it was not issue free, it was the easiest brew day i had.

The automation is class.  The issues I had were all hardware related and I am hoping it is just a dodgy keypad I have. Keypad buttons were not working at times and last night it died, ordered a new one so fingers crosed.

Quote from: McMelloW on December 09, 2015, 03:48:10 PM

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on December 09, 2015, 03:45:55 PM
Thanks McMelloW I'll send an email to Davide to see if he has any ideas

I think you are talking about a multi vessel system. The Open Ardbir is for a single vessel system

Having investigated and teased out various options via selector switches, to enable the Ardbir to operate a three vessel set up, I will have to bow to your superior experience on this McMelloW. I'm fundamentally reinventing the wheel. The better option for me definitely seems to be the BCS 460 brewing controller
https://www.brewershardware.com/BCS-460-Brewery-Control-System.html
So unfortunately I'll be sticking my one complete with 3d printed panel up for sale at cost price as it hasn't and most probably won't be used.

Have you looked at a 3-4 way rotary switch to control the hlt, mash & kettle?

Or just use a STC/PID for hlt and then use ArdBit for mashing & boil; once sparging & transfer done, switch rotary switch to kettle (move temp probe into kettle thermowell) & continue from there.

I had intended to mount a selector switch with 3/4 positions, to simultaneously select the required ssr (hlt/rims/bk) while at the same time piggy backed on the back of this switch two more switches to select the temperature probes. So by selecting position 1 for example the HLT is selected with the temp probe in the HLT used as the input temperature and the HLT ssr selected as the output, ditto for position 2 for rims and position 3 for boil kettle.
I'm struggling to find a switch which can accomplish this. The standard 22mm rotary switches only come in on-off-on in the 3 position. Perhaps as you suggest by controlling the HLT seperately on its own PID controller this might be the answer

Maybe something like this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/660V-20A-1-0-2-3-Position-Panel-Mounting-Select-Rotary-Cam-Changeover-Switch-/311200221749).

Use 2 of the 3 poles for temp probe & SSR?

Or even in 22mm http://www.ebay.com/itm/5Pcs-AC-220V-5A-22mm-Dia-DPDT-2NO-2NC-6-Pins-3-Positions-Rotary-Selector-Switch-/311081436446

Thanks pob, with the rims tube I need to ensure that the associated temperature sensor is permanently married to the rims heater element. It could be very dangerous if for example the temperature probe in an empty bk was inadvertently selected while the rims element was firing. The selector switches must select the ssr and the temperature probe at the same time. The original switch you linked to might suit but from experience they can be quite "clunky"in operation

I was also going to use in a 3v system but have decided that it's too fiddly and opted to do a single vessel now instead

Well, could always build an electronic selector for the job, with some or gates to handle your logic. I find the electric circuits quite complicated when you want to do non standard things...

In my day they were (and still are) called rotary switches [sometime make-a-switch].

They are a set of components: switch wafers and the mounting hardware to allow you to make up stacks of switch wafers to do whatever you want.

Typically there were a maximum of 12 positions on the wafer so you could get a 1 pole 12 way, 2p 6w, 3p 4w etc. You just needed more wafers to switch multiple circuits. They were used a lot in valve radios to change the frequency bands!

Cheers Will
I had been looking at these type. I could use one to switch ssrs and temp inputs simultaneously

6mm Dia Shaft 4P3T 4 Pole 12 Position Band Channel Selector Rotary Switch
http://s.aliexpress.com/mY3yUvi2
(from AliExpress Android)

Quote from: darren996 on December 26, 2015, 03:13:44 PM

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on December 26, 2015, 02:21:54 PM
Just as some background, DC voltage is much more severe on relay contacts than AC due to the fact that DC causes more arcing. Therefore when you are buying a relay it will have a lower switch current rating than if it was switching AC. So check the DC contact rating as it can be as low as 50% of the AC rating

Thanks for the reply.. this is a bit over my head...
Am I looking for something like this to swithc/power a 12v pump.

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/5V-12V-24V-10A-1-Channel-Relay-Module-Optocoupler-H-L-Level-Triger-for-Arduino-/131584267865?var=&hash=item1ea3089659:m:mDBIexHsWx7fhkZecRuGDqQ

Hi guys,  This has been a great thread.  I'm building a very similar single vessel system with the ArdBir, and it's almost all up and running except for one bit...  I'm doing something stupid I'm sure, but I can't figure out how to wire a relay, similar to the one linked above, to the pump output on the ArdBir and have it operate correctly.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Hello and welcome to the forum pjfrad, you should consider taking out a membership as the benefits far outweigh the cost.
Are you planning on using a 12 volt solar type pump or a 220v chugger type?

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on January 21, 2016, 08:47:52 AM
Hello and welcome to the forum pjfrad, you should consider taking out a membership as the benefits far outweigh the cost.
Are you planning on using a 12 volt solar type pump or a 220v chugger type?

Hi, thanks for the welcome.

I have a 12 volt DC pump.  If I power the relay from +/-12v and connect the pump to the normally open on the relay it runs fine, connecting it to normally closed means the pump doesn't run, which you'd expect.

I've tried several combinations of hooking up the wiring to the Ardbir to get it to activate the signal pin, but am not able to get it to switch they relay.  I'm testing by trying to turn the pump on and off in manual mode.

post a pic of the top of your relay most of them are 24-340V AC.

Quote from: CH on January 21, 2016, 11:19:59 PM
post a pic of the top of your relay most of them are 24-340V AC.

I don't have a pic handy, but here's a link to the relay I bought on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/391273127391?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I also updated my post above to make it clear that it was a 12v DC pump.

It looks like there are three connections on the low voltage side. Ucc is the positive Gnd is the negative and when you apply a 5v positive or negative to the In contact the relay should energise. (Depending upon whether it is a pnp or npn type) This relay is designed to be operated by transistor switch rather than the way you are trying to operate it. To test the operation connect the plus and negative to Ucc and gnd and link the positive connection to the in briefly to see if the relay operates

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on January 22, 2016, 12:35:15 AM
It looks like there are three connections on the low voltage side. Ucc is the positive Gnd is the negative and when you apply a 5v positive or negative to the In contact the relay should energise. (Depending upon whether it is a pnp or npn type) This relay is designed to be operated by transistor switch rather than the way you are trying to operate it. To test the operation connect the plus and negative to Ucc and gnd and link the positive connection to the in briefly to see if the relay operates

I did test this out, if I connect the Ucc and Gnd, and then connect the in to earth, the relay activates.  I tried connecting both the Ardbir's + and - to this pin but with no success.

Do I need a different type of Relay to make this work?  I got these relays because of what I saw in the link that I quoted in my original post.

So the more I think about it, is the problem because this is a low level trigger?  Is there a way to invert that, or do I need to buy a new relay with a high level trigger?

This wee relay is designed to be tied high and low, and triggered via "IN", which controls the relay. The code for ardbir uses "low" for off and "high" for on for the pump, so there's no reason you can't tie VCC to 5v, Gnd to Gnd and IN to the relay port on the ardbir the ardbir should be able to activate the relay.

However, given that you say that the relay activates when connected to earth, you would probably need to play with the ground/nc/no contacts on the pump end of the relay so that it's behaving correctly according to what the ardbir is trying to do with the pump. it should be fairly easy to figure that out.

<edit>looking at the pic again, that's a 12v coil relay it seems, so it may need to be tied to 12v instead of 5v. be careful doing this, that there's not 12v going back into your ardbir as this will likely fry it! Personally i'd swap it for a 5v coil relay or put a diode into the IN line to be sure there's no voltage going back that way.

<further edit>
if you're mixing the 12 and 5 volt rails, you will need to have a common gnd too, else the relay won't be driven from the ardbir.

(for what it's worth, I don't have an official ArdBir board, but am fabbing one myself, so I'm not familiar with exact intricacies of the board you're dealing with, so take any advice under caution!)

Ok I've just been looking at the connection manual for the open ardbir (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/96o6i39o50llama/AADOdbENIRJhRFbeGxB_ITF7a/All-in-One%20Board%20connection%20manual/All%20in%20one%20user%20manual.pdf?dl=0), and from what I can see, I've been talking crap.

The board looks like it uses a 12 relay coil as you already have. However it shows the connection to the wrong side of the relay board which doesn't help.

So here's what I suggest. Get a multimeter and measure the voltage across the +12 and 0v "pump" connector terminals on the ardbir board. If I'm right, these will switch between 12v when the pump shoudl be on, and 0 v when off.Also check that the 0v is indeed the boards' ground. If this is the case, then we're good to go.

the +12v terminal on the ardbir should be connected to the IN of the relay board, this is the switched trigger for the relay coil
GND and VCC should be connected to ArdBirs Gnd and 12v lines, probably easiest to take off a tap from the 12v input to the board for this.
This should get your relay activating when the ARDBIR tries to control it.
Now you just need to figure out whether you need to use GND and NO or GND and NC terminals at the other end of the relay.  (bear in mind that you will only connect the positive side of the pump wiring through the relay, like you would a switch, not ground and +12v.

As far as I know that should all work fine, but like i said check the values on the terminal using a multimeter before you do anything.

I didn't realize that the official ardbir produced 12v output switches for the relays. My board is running at 5 volts everywhere.

Sorry for any confusion my previous post may have introduced.

Diagram attached hopefully should clear it up

My relay arrived yesteday, so havent wired it up yet.
I found this llink that explains how various types of relays work, mght be of use ..

http://www.forward.com.au/pfod/HomeAutomation/OnOffAddRelay/index.html

Ok, this farkin relay won't work for me.. i cant get it to power my 12v pump

This is the relay i got
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/5V-12V-24V-10A-1-Channel-Relay-Module-Optocoupler-H-L-Level-Triger-for-Arduino-/131584267865?var=&hash=item1ea3089659:m:mDBIexHsWx7fhkZecRuGDqQ

From the ardbir pump terminal I connected +  and - to dc+ and dc- on the relay.
I connected dc+ from the power supply to the com port on the relay.
I connected the dc+ to power the pump to the NO port.

When I turn on the ardbir and go into manual mode and turn the pump on the green light comes on on the relay but doesn't energise the pump.  I thought the relay should connect com and no and complete the circuit.

Noob alert - what do the jumpers do on this, the are flaggerd as low and high, mine is set to high.
Also there is a third In connector, what does this do..

Help would be greatly appreciated....

Have you tried swopping the jumper from high to low?

Yep. No joy.

Shit, I got that relay too, you know what your doing... I have no idea, for what it's worth I got 3 just in case one had a problem. Your welcome to try one in case a hardware fault is suspected

Cheers, thanks for the offer i am sure its me and not the relay. I bought two so I am going to try the other one now... theres a lot of head scratchin goin on

Edit... dont do what I did. I think i killed the pimp out on the ardbir panel

Quote from: kenmc on January 25, 2016, 01:44:49 PM

I didn't realize that the official ardbir produced 12v output switches for the relays. My board is running at 5 volts everywhere.


Diagram attached hopefully should clear it up

Thanks for the replied guys. 

Kenmc - I think I did test that configuration at some point playing around.  However I now think that somewhere in the process of playing around I've damaged the ardbir board.  I think I've killed the transistors, when I tested with a multimeter the pump terminals on the ardbir  either "on" or "off" are showing about 10v and the heat terminals on the ardbir  either "on" or "off" are showing about 0.01v.

:(

Quote from: darren996 on January 26, 2016, 09:39:45 PM
Sorted there now.. just follow kenmc diagram.
For this relay you need to do the following:
Jumper on hi
Dc+ from 12v power supply to com.
Run another dc+ from power source to the in terminal.
Ardbir pump + and - to relay dc+ and dc-.

Relay is clicking now and a red light is coming on.

Lovely, that's my go to guide sorted 😎

@pjfrad, contact the lad that makes then, he's on here. He would be best to advise.

Quote from: darren996 on January 26, 2016, 09:39:45 PM
Sorted there now.. just follow kenmc diagram.
For this relay you need to do the following:
Jumper on hi
Dc+ from 12v power supply to com.
Run another dc+ from power source to the in terminal.
Ardbir pump + and - to relay dc+ and dc-.

Relay is clicking now and a red light is coming on.

Did you try switching the +12v of the IN and the DC+? i.e. have RELAY IN to ardbir pump + and have Power Supply +12v to the relay DC+
From what I understand of what you've said, you're using the ardbir board to power the relay board rather than to activate the coil, which might damage the ardbir board due to current draw - it sounds like it's doing the same thing, and at an overall effect it is, but the relay IN is probably expecting only a few milliamps, whereas the whole board is probably drawing a fair bit more.

Quote from: pjfrad on January 26, 2016, 10:41:32 PM

Quote from: kenmc on January 25, 2016, 01:44:49 PM

I didn't realize that the official ardbir produced 12v output switches for the relays. My board is running at 5 volts everywhere.


Diagram attached hopefully should clear it up

Thanks for the replied guys. 

Kenmc - I think I did test that configuration at some point playing around.  However I now think that somewhere in the process of playing around I've damaged the ardbir board.  I think I've killed the transistors, when I tested with a multimeter the pump terminals on the ardbir  either "on" or "off" are showing about 10v and the heat terminals on the ardbir  either "on" or "off" are showing about 0.01v.

:(

If they're not showing any differences in voltage when changing between ON and OFF, then yeah I'd say something has died all right. It might be possible to replace them, but how to find which ones are dead is the issue. As johnrm suggested try contacting the maker see if he can help.

where are you based?

Quote from: kenmc on January 27, 2016, 10:18:05 AM

Quote from: darren996 on January 26, 2016, 09:39:45 PM
Sorted there now.. just follow kenmc diagram.
For this relay you need to do the following:
Jumper on hi
Dc+ from 12v power supply to com.
Run another dc+ from power source to the in terminal.
Ardbir pump + and - to relay dc+ and dc-.

Relay is clicking now and a red light is coming on.

Did you try switching the +12v of the IN and the DC+? i.e. have RELAY IN to ardbir pump + and have Power Supply +12v to the relay DC+
From what I understand of what you've said, you're using the ardbir board to power the relay board rather than to activate the coil, which might damage the ardbir board due to current draw - it sounds like it's doing the same thing, and at an overall effect it is, but the relay IN is probably expecting only a few milliamps, whereas the whole board is probably drawing a fair bit more.

No didnt try that.  I think i killed my pump out on the ardbir, i will get onto Davide to see what he has to say

I think you did what I was afraid would happen :(
Like I said, I don't have any official version of ardbir so am trying to find schematics etc online to work out what's going on so can't give specific answers unfortunately.

simply use this relay http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-lot-SRA-12VDC-CL-5-Pins-RELAY-12V-20A-for-DC-Coil-Power/32649265894.html
and connect it as on the attached sketch and should work.

BTW why most of the new PCBs are using special mosfets instead of BC337 transistors? The OLD PCB for Arduino Uno was only with BC337 and now the change it for pump and buzzer. Is there any particular reason?