National Homebrew Club Ireland

All,

There's been a lot of chat on the forum over the last few months concerning the varying standard of beers that are making their way into local and national competitions these days.

While some people feel that entering infected or highly flawed beers into competitions is a good way of getting feedback, I don't think many would argue that local meets are probably the best place to get constructive feedback on their beer. At the very least, it should be the first port of call, providing you have a local meetup near you.

To that end, I'm proposing that local clubs run at least one dedicated competition tasting meet well in advance of the nationals next Feb/Mar. The idea would to invite a couple of BJCP judges along who would taste the beer, fill out proper BJCP scoresheets, and advise the brewers on improvements.

This would not only improve the standard of beers in the competition, but it would probably lighten the load on the judges on the day and provide the assembled judges with a bit of practice before the big event.

The competition meets could be done during the regularly monthly meets, or done on a separate evening.

Thoughts?

It makes absolute scientific and practical sense.

Quote from: brenmurph on September 25, 2015, 07:39:44 PM
It makes absolute scientific and practical sense.

+1

@bubbles thats a great idea

It's a great idea. The judges haven't much time on the day as it is, but filling out the score sheet in a '13' kind of way takes a while. I mean... how do you stretch 'smells like shit' into constructive criticism when you can't even get close enough to tell whether or not there is diacetyl!?
Edit: Also good practice for judges.
Though it should only be used to weed out the 13s. Green beers have still got plenty of time to improve, etc.

Yeah would be a great way for the new judges to get some practice and do a round of the club's prior to the comp as well, so bring it on!

Ideally the clubs would have more than one meet devoted to competition beers. A pre-Christmas meet would allow brewers to get feedback and then do a re-brew and another round of feedback before selecting beers for the nationals.

The important thing is that the feedback is impartial, given by the same people that will be scoring the beers in the nationals.

It would be a great service for homebrewers, might even save some folks a fiver by pointing out the duffers. And I'm sure the NHC's certified judges and those in training will be only too delighted to get involved.

We could create a list of clubs offering competition tasting meets which would allow members to attend more than one meet if they want.

All we need at the meets is one or two judges and someone to coordinate the beers and distribute the feedback.

Please comment if you have any other ideas.

I'd suggest you do the judging in pairs, like I'm competitions, as it keeps it impartial and generally more accurate.

Good idea dude. That way it's more valuable for the judges too as it mimics what they'll be doing on the day.

If its going to work you can't know who owns the beer you are judging. Ideally not knowing precisely who judged it either.

If I'm going to properly judge a beer I want to be able to have a frank conversation with the other judge. This does not happen at meets.

I'm happy to judge beers but I would be more comfortable judging them separately.

Absolutely shiny. The judges would be sitting separately to the rest of the meet.

Would be good for the entrants not to know who scored the beer as it would allow the judges to be more honest. But then the entrants lose the ability to review the scoresheet with the judge and ask questions. This is the advantage that face to face meets have over most competitions. One of the big draws here is that we're combining proper BJCP scoring with interactive Q&A. All optional of course. It's up to the individual clubs to decide on the format that works best for them.

I'm willing to do it for capital, I reckon we could have a few interested judges to group together too.

How about having a separate judging day for 'off' beers?
If a brewer knows his beers are consistently flawed but cannot pinpoint it, then have them submit it for review to a forensics day.
Brewer provides as much detail as possible maybe available by phone if need be.

Great idea, but you might have trouble attracting judges to that one! Or maybe not, judges are a dedicated lot, and they'll go anywhere for beer, even the bad stuff.. ️

Let's hope there aren't too many duffers brewed nationwide over the next few months.

Quote from: shiny on September 27, 2015, 08:30:29 AM
I'm willing to do it for capital, I reckon we could have a few interested judges to group together too.

Nice one man.

What would you think about doing the first one in late November or early December? Gives people a chance to get a couple of brews on and get some early feedback.

Quote from: Bubbles on September 27, 2015, 07:45:42 AM
Absolutely shiny. The judges would be sitting separately to the rest of the meet.

Would be good for the entrants not to know who scored the beer as it would allow the judges to be more honest. But then the entrants lose the ability to review the scoresheet with the judge and ask questions. This is the advantage that face to face meets have over most competitions. One of the big draws here is that we're combining proper BJCP scoring with interactive Q&A. All optional of course. It's up to the individual clubs to decide on the format that works best for them.

I would dearly love to have the Q&A aspect as being able to tease out the flaws & the reasons behind it does wonders for improving things. I would hope that people would be able to take constructive criticism/feedback in their stride. In addition I would think it would do no harm for judges to back up there remarks for those not as informed/experience. At the very least it would allow comments to be explained as some feedback I have gotten in comps has been almost illegible :) (not that it would make much difference to my beer :)

Shanna

Happy to do it for scd or any of the other Dublin club's, but need an experienced judge with me to catch stuff I'm going to miss.

It's defiantly the way to go. You really should not be entering beers into the nationals you know are flawed.
The feedback you get will usually just be a general these are the common causes type response as the judges don't know the receipe or brewing conditions.
The club level does not need to be strict comp condiditions.
You can judge the beer as you would in a comp. Then look at the brew sheet and have a good idea where improvements can be made rather then guessing.
At the end you can also have the name and talk to them directly afterwards.

It's November now, so if people want to do something like this and still get a chance to rebrew before the comp, now is the time.

I'm planning a South Dublin Brewers meet at the beginning of December to do some proper scoresheet evaluation. I already have a judge lined up. Details to follow..