National Homebrew Club Ireland

Ok so hypothetical question(ya right) Propane or electric for your boil kettle/hlt? Which would you choose and why? Brewing to be done inside MOSTLY (not always). Cost versus convenience if any of ye have worked that out. Take it that kegs are 50 litre typical so boils of say 30 litres average.

I personally can see advantages to both, just not sure of propane costs, though i know leccy is bloody expensive.

With the bottle gas you need a second bottle for when you run out half way through the boil. ;)

LOL and thats exactly what would happen to me ;D However with the price of a leccy bill these days i wonder would the propane still work out better? I know nothing about gas prices these days so not sure.

I wonder per hour what would the cost of leccy v propane be for a 30 litre boil?  :-/

Not to sure but I think bottle gas comes out the most expensive form of heating :-/.

Ya Dempsey that seems to be the general consensus everywhere. I assumed people here only used leccy because propane was more of a yank thing ?

Oh and btw i am just working out a few facts and figures for down the road is all. With the heating element needed for a 30 litre boild would a special circuit breaker be required? That could be an issue for me if so. What size element would you need for a 30 litre boil anyway to do it properly?

QuotePropane or electric for your boil kettle/hlt? ...... Brewing to be done inside MOSTLY (not always)

Propane cannot be used in any kind of enclosed space, and especially not inside a house!

For me propane isn't an option because I think it's too much hassle. Gass bottle runs out mid-mash, or mid-boil, what do you do? So really, you need to have a backup bottle at all times. Plus the hassle of getting refills. Electricity is always available.

Safety is also a factor with me - I'm so cack-handed, I can't be trusted with explosive gas. :)

Ok clarify something for me please. If propane is soooo dangerous to use inside a house then why isn't methane? That's explosive as well with air. Is this just an old wives tale or is there a bona fide reason?

Btw cheers for the opinions. I think the running out of gas swung it for me. What size element would be good for a 30 litre boil?

QuoteOk clarify something for me please. If propane is soooo dangerous to use inside a house then why isn't methane? That's explosive as well with air. Is this just an old wives tale or is there a bona fide reason?

Its not the gas its the equipment.

People not on mains gas cook on propane gas cookers (that look just like mains gas cookers but probably have different jets) quite safely because the cooker has all sorts of safety devices fitted.

Not all gas burners that are used under kegs have flame fail shut offs for example. Some do!

I believe this is why

Thanks WillD for clarifying that.

isn't the most common gas available in Ireland Butane ?

I use electricity deadman - 2 elements in a bucket think they are 2.4 KW  each
I don't have a dedicated circuit breaker - but I use plug them into two sockets on the wall ( as in I do NOT plug them both into the same extension cable)

Run Both to
(a) heat strike water at beginning  ( 30 - mins ?)
(b) heat some sparge water while mashing ( 30 - mins ?)


(c)bring  wort to the boil ( another 20 - 30 mins)

then knock off one element once i've hot the rolling boil
and just use the one for a 50 minute boil

What boil volume new ?

about 30 litres - my bucket is a 33 litre fv  but I leave some space for the hot break

I have both, the electricity is handy on windy days or if i need to brew inside (steam can be an issue brewing inside)

The gas setup allows me to brew where i dont have power handy.

The really bad weather lately has had me doing small batches on the kitchen stove and the pot i use with the gas setup also works well there.

Depends on what you are after really. To make sure i didnt run out of gas on a brewday i bought a second small patio gas bottle. Its the same as i use on the bbq so if i dont brew with it it still gets used ;)

So how many boils and what time do you get out of a full yellow cylinder?

hey Deadman - so your weighing up the pros and cons of which route to take.. I've been here and this is my 2 cents worth

Cyinder Gas

Tube ? (some one) did a cost analysis before on another site  measuring the costs of cylinder gas Vs electric V's mains gas before – dunno where the post is but as noted earlier  - mains gas – electric – cylinder gas

If you go down the route of the cylinder – you need some kind of burner attached to it
I looked at them before and if I remember right they were pricey enough


they may have had safety  cut offs – can't remember really – its been a while

here is a link to an example  (factor in postage yourself)

http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Large_Square_Gas_Boiling_Ring.html

I know I shouldn't.. But this has been discussed by members here over on beoir in the past issues from people having poor performance to discussing the best one available, to changing jets for propane ones to suit butane gas 

If you got a burner with no safety cut off  - your really restricting yourself to brewing outdoors in my opinion and lets face it – this is the oul boggy sod

Also when brewing you are tied to watching it more closely than if it was electric ( has the flame gone out ??)

When I brew outdoors – I've gone off and painted fences !! indoors – I've cooked meals !! 

There is also the cost involved – at around 30 – 35 quid a cylinder – your looking at laying out 70 quid ( would need a spare as discussed )

Then whatever the burner costs

So.. that's the cylinder side of it from what I can see


Electric

Kegs V's Buckets

I eventually decided to do what Dylan did in the 70's – I went electric..

My next crossroads was a Keg or bucket, I started down the Keg route – sourced some, cut open the top, used a (few) holesaw(s)

This cost me some homebrew for Kegs – a few quid for the Discs ( have angle grinder) and a few quid for the  hole saws ( I didn't go slow enough and wore out 2 I think )
Lets say @ 20 quid
That and the time it took to cut out the top and run to the local diy store after I had worn out the first discs ! and the time it took to run back and get more hole saws !!!

Elements : 2 options
Buy 2 Argos Ketles for @ 7 quid each
http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/9016710/Trail/searchtext%3EKETTLE.htm

take em apart OR go to a local electrical store and buy some for around 15 quid each

I went down the argos route – but didn't like the exposed parts – I was concerned with boil overs – liquid and leccy !! – but others here use them quiet successfully – I will chance most things but not electricity – so I bought 2 elements in Wallaces here in Waterford
Cost @ 30 quid in total

Next Leads –

use p.c. leads if you can get them – they get quiet warm and there are arguments out there for and against – not going into that
Or
Buy them – Wallaces are a tenner a go
Or hold onto the leads from the Argos Kettles and buy  the kettle connections – Wallaces - @ a fiver each

Buckets

I tried inserting my 2 elements in the kettle but could not stop the leaks, I made silicone washers – but because of the curve on the keg and the short thread on the element on the outside wall of the keg I could not get a tight enough grip on it – I did consider changing out the plastic washers on the elements for steel – brass whatever – but elected not to as  the threds on the elements were also plastic so I figured If I over tightened I would just break the threads and ruin the element  - I have sen pics of people her who have successfully put the Argos elements in the Kegs

So.. I opted for a 33 litre FV – got it free with a wine Kit I was making for people one Christmas
Anyway – once I got that I had my boil kettle made in @ 20 minutes – used a felt marker to trace around the element on the bucket and a Stanley blade to cut out the holes – some silicone washers from  a baking tray  and I was off !!
The bucket gets quiet soft when in use so its not a good idea to move it
I have used it for over a year now and it s fine

Also I do not have a dedicated brew space – so when not in use all my equipment is in storage – and it is easier to lug about a plastic bucket than a Keg ( even if it is empty )
Also I share my equipment with a buddy so it does spend some time in transit too

Sorry about the "Dear Diary "  response
I did spend quiet some time asking the same questions as you (of the same guys )

I got sound advice – but each persons equipment decisions comes down to a few things
1. money
2. time
3. space
4. Building Capabilities
Hope this helps !!!

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I eventually decided to do what Dylan did in the 70's – I went electric..

That's before my time, but I laughed when I got it ;D ;D

Excellent post newToBrew [smiley=beer.gif] You might need to change your name though? You don't sound that new to brew?  :P

Cheers New for that. Some interesting points. It would be interesting to see a cost analysis of electricity versus propane for a 30 litre boil per hour. That more than anything would interest me. There are advantages to both. With some common sense one is no more dangerous IMHO than the other.

The bid advantage for me with the propane/ butane is portability. The disadvantage is potentially running out mid boil. I decided to look into this as a future prospect for all grain. Kind of a case of, if I were to  get my hands on a couple of kegs what would the best route be sort of thing.

Tbh I am finding it hard to get specific cost information from any source though your post certainly gave food for thought. Setup cost is not what I am after as I can calculate that now,its what would it cost on a boil to boil basis.

While using the leccy is easier and initially cheaper for us here in the ails sod, in the long run is it more efficient than gas and is it cheaper,all for a 30 litre boil which I am using as my benchmark volume.

Using your figures tube gas is 2.5 times the cost of electricity for the same boil volume, interesting. Is that from room temperature up to boil?

One thing no-one has mentioned when you first go to the gas supplier you pay double: €35 for the bottle and €35 for the fill.

So if you want 2 bottles thats €140!!

Yes and thanks but that's setup costs which you are correct are expensive for gas. Really its the day to day costs I am after.

Ok according to the ESB to heat a 120 litre immersion once per day for the 61 day bill cycle costs 12.86 euro per bill. Thats 120 x 60( approx) that's 7200 litres of water from room temp to near boil for 13 euro :o

Quote

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I eventually decided to do what Dylan did in the 70's – I went electric..

That's before my time, but I laughed when I got it ;D ;D

Excellent post newToBrew [smiley=beer.gif] You might need to change your name though? You don't sound that new to brew?  :P

ah like the tag says - there's always something new to do !!!!

that's just my experience & opinion of the whole boil kettle - I still have loads to learn - I'm sure there are others who's experiences and opinions are  are different  and better informed

hey deadman - these are the elements  (http://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/spare-kettle-element-p-1100.html)I used

think they are slightly cheaper in town  but from the pic you prob get a better idea of what I meant by parts not being exposed and the plastic nut and all that