National Homebrew Club Ireland

Would anyone have an idea of how to brew an Irish Extra Stout similar to this? Have been on a stout kick lately and Leann Follain just stands out to me as being amazing.

Any stouts I've done before have been a bit astringent and acidic, though have started adjusting water now so hopefully this will help. If there's any other common methods for stouts though that would help bring out a smoother profile please let me know!

Gordon strong does a vorlauf addition of all dark grains to the mash to avoid astrigency. Basically add them after the mash is complete while you recirculate before you lauter.

As for LeAnn follain, I'm planning on bigging up Gordon strongs stout recipe in the future to try to get there. It's crystal 80, debittered black malt, roast barley, carapils and flaked barley with pale malt as the base.

Yea I'd be all over this if someone had a recipe. It almost tastes like a milk stout to me. Beautiful beer.

Quote from: molc on November 22, 2015, 07:54:48 PM
Gordon strong does a vorlauf addition of all dark grains to the mash to avoid astrigency. Basically add them after the mash is complete while you recirculate before you lauter.

How would you manage this on a fairly primitive mash set up using a picnic cooler?

Quote from: molc on November 22, 2015, 07:54:48 PM
As for LeAnn follain, I'm planning on bigging up Gordon strongs stout recipe in the future to try to get there. It's crystal 80, debittered black malt, roast barley, carapils and flaked barley with pale malt as the base.

Where can you get a debittered black malt?  Or can you make/hack it yourself?

Quote from: cruiscinlan on November 23, 2015, 10:34:55 AM
Where can you get a debittered black malt?  Or can you make/hack it yourself?

Look for "Carafa Special" available in grades 1, 2 and 3, in increasing order of roastiness. All of the HBSs stock it.

Quote from: cruiscinlan on November 23, 2015, 10:34:55 AM

Quote from: molc on November 22, 2015, 07:54:48 PM
Gordon strong does a vorlauf addition of all dark grains to the mash to avoid astrigency. Basically add them after the mash is complete while you recirculate before you lauter.

How would you manage this on a fairly primitive mash set up using a picnic cooler?

You could cold or hot steep the dark grains, then add to the liquor as you begin your boil. Alternatively, you could add them to the mash at the end of mashing, then stir, let settle and start your vorlauf as usual.

Quote from: cruiscinlan on November 23, 2015, 10:34:55 AM

How would you manage this on a fairly primitive mash set up using a picnic cooler?

Tin foil and a jug?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwwwsd91ZTw

Quote from: cruiscinlan on November 23, 2015, 10:34:55 AM

Quote from: molc on November 22, 2015, 07:54:48 PM
Gordon strong does a vorlauf addition of all dark grains to the mash to avoid astrigency. Basically add them after the mash is complete while you recirculate before you lauter.

How would you manage this on a fairly primitive mash set up using a picnic cooler?

Just throw the dark grains in late. I do it between 10-15 minutes. Then just give it a good stir. I did this for a stout last month and got all the colour I needed. I'll be interested to get a taste and see what difference it makes now.

I never mash roast barley. I always add it in the sparge. 0.5% is my usual in stouts. I use about 7% chocolate malt & 2% carafa special III. Bunch of crystal too. Not very roasty but who likes drinking burnt coffee right? ...And oats, lots of oats. Mmmm.

Quote from: Hop Bomb on December 02, 2015, 10:05:09 PM
I never mash roast barley. I always add it in the sparge. 0.5% is my usual in stouts. I use about 7% chocolate malt & 2% carafa special III. Bunch of crystal too. Not very roasty but who likes drinking burnt coffee right? ...And oats, lots of oats. Mmmm.

Thanks for that hop bomb. Is that only 0.5% roast barley?? Also, do you treat your water differently when not mashing the roast, i.e. as if you were brewing a pale malty beer?

Yes thats a half a percent. Its not roasty at all like. Smooth & chocolatey. Wouldnt score well in a comp but it disappears fast from the kegerator. (ive added cracked coffee beans & cocoa nibs to a previous kegged batch but it turned into an ashtray beer - drain pour keg)

Yip thats the job. Just adjust your mash water to hit your ph for malt foward beer.

(btw - this is no way to make a leann follain clone. It was just some info on mashing roasted grains) 

Quote from: Hop Bomb on December 04, 2015, 12:33:58 PM
Yes thats a half a percent. Its not roasty at all like. Smooth & chocolatey. Wouldnt score well in a comp but it disappears fast from the kegerator. (ive added cracked coffee beans & cocoa nibs to a previous kegged batch but it turned into an ashtray beer - drain pour keg)

Yip thats the job. Just adjust your mash water to hit your ph for malt foward beer.

(btw - this is no way to make a leann follain clone. It was just some info on mashing roasted grains)

Cheers for the pointers on that. I'm going to try this tomorrow with a vorlauf and late mash addition as suggested and we see what happens.

Also 700g of lightly toasted oats.

Quote from: Hop Bomb on December 02, 2015, 10:05:09 PM
I never mash roast barley. I always add it in the sparge. 0.5% is my usual in stouts. I use about 7% chocolate malt & 2% carafa special III. Bunch of crystal too. Not very roasty but who likes drinking burnt coffee right? ...And oats, lots of oats. Mmmm.

So you mash the chocolate and carafra special ? or not ?
I am curious about not mashing roast barley, I appreciate the reason for black IPAs and such but for other beers, a little burnt flavour gives some bite .. no ?

Oats work in so many beers alright !

It depends on your tastes, I've got the stout I mentioned above where I threw the roast barley in for the last 15 minutes (no sparge mash) and it is way smoother and less of that burnt, bitter character. The bitterness coming more clearly from the hops. So it works for sure but you may not always want to lose the burnt character. I think I'll experiment with more roast barley rather than going back. It still has a definite roast character but it could be more.

You might be interested in this (http://brulosophy.com/2015/11/30/roasted-grains-full-mash-vs-capped-at-vorlauf-exbeeriment-results-2/) experiment. I have tried mashing grains and just steeping them. My impression was that the steeped grains gave less flavour. I can't say they made a smoother beer either, but the smoothness of a stout depends a lot on how you treat your water (among other things) in my experience.

I reckon the jury is still out on the mashing v steeping of roasted grains.   

Dunno if this information is any use but from their website:

StyleExtra Irish Stout ABV6.0%
Plato °14.5°
IBU45 Fermentation
Top fermentation

This full-on Irish stout is the big brother of our Irish Stout, with a hefty
malt base, including a generous portion of chocolate malt, making it
a bolder, brash version.

The extended mashing and boiling times help to generate the roast coffee
aroma with a hint of biscuit that comes through in the flavour. This stout
is built on strong old style hop varieties lending a spicy bitterness which
balances the malty aromas perfectly. This higher gravity stout is allowed the
fullness of time to completely attenuate during the fermentation process to
achieve the required ABV and that satisfying fullness of flavour.

ADDITIONAL TASTING NOTES

Colour/Appearance
Opaque black with a creamy tan head.

Aroma
Mild mocha aroma with a sweet vinous note.

Aftertaste
Classic European bittering hops bring a refreshing bite after the chocolate
subsides.

From another site:
O'Hara's Leann Folláin at 6.0% abv is laden with complex chocolate and coffee flavours balanced by a robust bitterness and delicate spicy aroma imparted from the generous portions of Northdown and Fuggle Hops.

From another forum:

QuoteI remember chatting to Liam the brewer about their stout one drunken night.
Managed to get some info out of him about the recipe.

He said they use challenger and fuggles in the recipe.
Challenger for bittering and fuggles late. Maybe another hop too, memories a little hazy!!
Bittered to 45 IBUS

He said they only use one roasted grain, that being Roasted barley. I found that a little surprising as theirs definately some chocolate notes in the flavour.
He said that they never mix roasted grains in a recipe as they tend to compete.

They use their own yeast strain aswell.

So, if I was to attempt an extract oharas stout clone I would maybe try something like this..


light DME
10-12% Roasted barley
1-2% crystal malt
(Maybe some flaked barley if doing a partial mash)

Hops...
Challenger at 60 mins
a little East Kent Goldings at 20 mins
a little Fuggles at 5 mins.
Bittered to 45 IBUS.

US-05 Yeast

Has the recipe for Leann Follain changed recently? Currently supping a bottle and I had a pint of it last night too and its very underwhelming, nowhere near the big man stout it usually is  :-\

On a similar note, Gordon Strong is looking to write an article for Brew Your Own magaize on the new BJCP category: Irish Extra Stout and to coincide with his trip over we will be hosting a "Meet the Brewer" night with O'Hara's where Gordon will do a guided tasting and talk over recipe formulation for the style. More details to follow soon but you'll not want to miss it if you're a fan of Irish stout.  :)

Best. News. Ever!

Where will this be hosted?Derry please :D

Quote from: DCLavs on March 11, 2016, 05:38:19 PM
Where will this be hosted?Derry please :D

So an update on this since the aforementioned tasting evening with Gordon Strong and O'Haras. To be honest they didn't give much away, personally I didn't feel I came away much the wiser about how to clone this beer. That said, here is some info I noted down, perhaps between us we can come up with something that hones in on a decent clone. Will look forward to seeing Gordon writes up in the coming months also.

* They use "very hard water", and add calcium sulphate and sodium chloride
* Mash PH is 5.6 +- .2
* Little bit of wheat
* One base malt
* Over 10% flaked barley (he says a lot)
* Says flaked barley is extremely important for mouthfeel and flavors
* No cold steeping or late mash additions
* Low temp mash two stage infusion
* No crystal
* About 12% dark malt
* Irish ale yeast, pitch cone to cone, same yeast is used for all their beers
* "Over 4 grains total, not more than six", i.e. 5 :)
* The wheat used is not flaked wheat or malted wheat
* Their water hardness is 200ppm before treatment
* Hops used are Northdown and Fuggles
* Mash mid to low 60s
* 3 hop additions
* Longer than 60 min boil
* 40 IBU
* 1.058 og

* The wheat used is not flaked wheat or malted wheat = Torrified?

(thanks for taking notes)

Thanks Paul B  :) . That is a lot to go on. The roasted grain balance might be at a different ratio but my best guess going by the numbers looks like this:

70% Base malt (I'd use Maris Otter)
13% Flaked Barley
12.5% Chocolate malt
5.5% Roasted Barley
4.5% Torrified Wheat

1.058 OG
1.012 FG


Edit: The official O'Haras site say Leann Follain has "a generous portion of chocolate malt" and as the lads pointed out it was mentioned that the recipe contains only one roasted grain.

Quote from: Frequent Sequence on May 03, 2016, 01:35:07 PM
Thanks Paul B  :) . That is a lot to go on. The roasted grain balance might be at a different ratio but my best guess going by the numbers looks like this:

70% Base malt (I'd use Maris Otter)
13% Flaked Barley
7% Chocolate malt
5.5% Roasted Barley
4.5% Torrified Wheat

1.058 OG
1.012 FG

Looks good, I'd say a good starting point!

Did he not say one dark malt, hinted at chocolate , I think he said no roast barley, but I  could be mistaken

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I recall only 1 dark malt and it sounded like cadburys,also the flaked barley was more like 15%. Mash temp 62 C rising to 67 C.

Only one dark Malt, two stage mash, Flaked was 10-15% and I was sober :P

Paul for minute keeper at all future meets! :D

+1

They're good notes all right. I took a photo of them and ended up showing it to Gordon Strong at BrewCon - he spotted a few things he'd missed.

So... if the BJCP 2018 Extra Stout guidelines come out all screwed up, you know who to blame :)

Anyone brew this at all or have suggestions?

Aye I've brewed something pretty close based on the recipe. It's a damn good beer, probably less bitter and more like milk chocolate with a slight bitter coffee edge.

Looking to brew a chocolate stout over the next few weeks. Anyone got a tried and tested recipe? From a poster on this thread I'd be looking at something like;

40IBUs
Mash @ 64
70% Base
13% Flaked Barley
12.5% Choc Malt
4.5% Torrified Wheat
US-05