National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Equipment & Chemicals => Topic started by: Oh Crap on November 22, 2015, 08:31:47 PM

Title: Pid controller
Post by: Oh Crap on November 22, 2015, 08:31:47 PM
Anybody point me in the direction of such..
I'm looking for controller, temp sensor and thermowell..
It for recircling water in hlt... And to allow increases in temp for possible step mashing.
Hlt will be housing herms coil.
Cheers
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: dcalnan on November 22, 2015, 08:54:41 PM
I bought this one recently, I have yet to wire it up, as I'm waiting to get a new boiler and change my old one to a hlt. But for the thermowell,  would it be better to to have the sensor reading the temperature of the liquid coming out of the herms coil using a t connector?

Might help if I include the link, http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/121571911304?ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F0%2Fe11401.m1842.l3160%2F7%3Feuid%3Db0f10400510840a7889ceb05acd6af82%26loc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.com.au%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FViewItem%2526item%253D121571911304%2526ssPageName%253DADME%253AL%253AOU%253AIE%253A3160%26srcrot%3De11401.m1842.l3160%26rvr_id%3D0&_mwBanner=1 (http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/121571911304?ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F0%2Fe11401.m1842.l3160%2F7%3Feuid%3Db0f10400510840a7889ceb05acd6af82%26loc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.com.au%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FViewItem%2526item%253D121571911304%2526ssPageName%253DADME%253AL%253AOU%253AIE%253A3160%26srcrot%3De11401.m1842.l3160%26rvr_id%3D0&_mwBanner=1)
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: pob on November 22, 2015, 09:04:38 PM
Quote from: Oh Crap on November 22, 2015, 08:31:47 PM
Anybody point me in the direction of such..
I'm looking for controller, temp sensor and thermowell..
It for recircling water in hlt... And to allow increases in temp for possible step mashing.
Hlt will be housing herms coil.
Cheers
You're describing an ArdBir (http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,10671.0.html), allows you to  all of the above. Bit more expensive than the eBay setup though.
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Shanna on November 22, 2015, 09:06:40 PM
Quote from: Oh Crap on November 22, 2015, 08:31:47 PM
Anybody point me in the direction of such..
I'm looking for controller, temp sensor and thermowell..
It for recircling water in hlt... And to allow increases in temp for possible step mashing.
Hlt will be housing herms coil.
Cheers
Sestos Pid controller, pt100 temperature probe should be available from Amazon or EBay.

Original discussion here - http://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=11562
and of course great detail on wiring the pid up courtesey of CH -http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,9845.msg121647.html#msg121647

Shanna
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: nigel_c on November 22, 2015, 09:37:56 PM
Good old aliexpress. I've some coming from China at the moment.
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Oh Crap on November 22, 2015, 10:14:40 PM
Quote from: dcalnan on November 22, 2015, 08:54:41 PM
I bought this one recently, I have yet to wire it up, as I'm waiting to get a new boiler and change my old one to a hlt. But for the thermowell,  would it be better to to have the sensor reading the temperature of the liquid coming out of the herms coil using a t connector?

Might help if I include the link, http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/121571911304?ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F0%2Fe11401. m1842.l3160%2F7%3Feuid%3Db0f10400510840a7889ceb05acd6af82%26loc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.com.au%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FViewItem%2526item%253D121571911304%2526ssPageName%253DADME%253AL%253AOU%253AIE%253A3160%26srcrot%3De11401.m1842.l3160%26rvr_id%3D0&_mwBanner=1 (http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/121571911304?ul_ref=http%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F0%2Fe11401.m1842.l3160%2F7%3Feuid%3Db0f10400510840a7889ceb05acd6af82%26loc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.com.au%252Fws%252FeBayISAPI.dll%253FViewItem%2526item%253D121571911304%2526ssPageName%253DADME%253AL%253AOU%253AIE%253A3160%26srcrot%3De11401.m1842.l3160%26rvr_id%3D0&_mwBanner=1)
That's the plan but how do I connect the probe to the t connector ?
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: nigel_c on November 22, 2015, 10:30:27 PM
This is what I have in the post at the moment.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/251771167964?_mwBanner=1
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: dcalnan on November 22, 2015, 11:01:26 PM
Yeah i maybe should've looked for a pid with the 1/2" bsp connection, ill just be putting mine in the side of a bucket so the standard one should be fine.
Title: Pid controller
Post by: Leann ull on November 22, 2015, 11:03:04 PM
Nigel's solution is tidiest
I just push fitted it tight and cured with a water potable silicone.
Means probe is right in the middle of the herms return spear

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/56af97a2b893828148101396caaa61ce.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/9131341af169b534b2dd4f270271f45b.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/22/b945f50ce09f6999152d0bbc11856178.jpg)
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Oh Crap on November 23, 2015, 07:10:28 AM
Quote from: nigel_c on November 22, 2015, 10:30:27 PM
This is what I have in the post at the moment.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/251771167964?_mwBanner=1
That looks like the solution,
When r u expecting it? I might wait and see how it works out before I order one, I'm not brewing till new year as Santa has pressies coming 😁
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Leann ull on November 23, 2015, 10:44:19 AM
i ordered one of those last night so I'll let you know  ;)
the water potable grade of silicone i use is fernox lsx available from any decent plumbing merchants
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: nigel_c on November 23, 2015, 10:54:17 AM
Monkey see monkey want . It'll probably be close to Christmas when it gets delivered. Part of a slow build so might be a while till I get a review done.
I have 3 ordered. One for mash output, one for boiler and other for hlt.
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Oh Crap on November 23, 2015, 11:03:58 AM
Well feck the lot of ye....😋😋😋
I'll order 2 today as well(hlt temp control and mash temp) and we should do  group review lol
What pid did anyone get? I just need it for hlt control
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Leann ull on November 23, 2015, 01:51:05 PM
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/dancing/monkey.gif)

sestos 240v version from china
avoid the rex ones
you could go mad and buy an auber one from the US
http://www.auberins.com/?main_page=index&cPath=1

dont forget your ssr and nice big heat sink as they can get pretty hot
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: dcalnan on November 23, 2015, 02:05:10 PM
Oh I bought a rex one, should I not have?
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Leann ull on November 23, 2015, 02:09:32 PM
does it have an ssr output some don't, if you bought it with one it should be good
the ones they were flogging few years back you couldn't calibrate the sensor  :(
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: nigel_c on November 23, 2015, 02:26:47 PM
I've been doing my research about a month now. I ordered a REX one first. After a bit more research I learned these don't have the option to switch between auto and manual. Cycling the power on and off and basically allowing you to have 70% power to your boiler if you wanted.
For a HLT It should be grand and hold the temp.
I plan on using my one just to monitor the output of the mash. It wont be controlling anything so it all worked out. The other 2 will control the kettle and the hlt/herms  and I went for Sestos from aliexpress.
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Leann ull on November 23, 2015, 02:41:26 PM
heres one, just make sure it has the right voltage capability

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Sestos-Dual-Digital-Pid-Temperature-Controller-2-Omron-Relay-Output-Black-D1S-VR-220-free/32286148356.html?spm=2114.01020208.3.11.j9PoFg&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9_79_78_77_80,searchweb201644_5,searchweb201560_7

they are very accommodating on the probe types
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: dcalnan on November 23, 2015, 02:48:42 PM
Quote from: CH on November 23, 2015, 02:09:32 PM
does it have an ssr output some don't, if you bought it with one it should be good
the ones they were flogging few years back you couldn't calibrate the sensor  :(

Just checked mine and it has the ssr output. I have to get around to wiring it up soon.
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: nigel_c on November 23, 2015, 02:54:36 PM
As far as heat  sinks go I'm steering the way of one dirty bit one rather then 2 individual ones out the top of the control box.
Something like this.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Large-Aluminium-LED-Heatsink-300mm-x-127mm-x-8mm-UK-SELLER-30W-36W-/252132327718?hash=item3ab4420126:g:9m4AAOSwd0BV5Jnd

Should be more then big enough to keep 2 SSRs nice and cool. Plus It looks a lot cooler then 2 smaller ones.

Loads of good reading and ideas here but you should probably hide your credit card first.  ;)
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Leann ull on November 23, 2015, 03:07:01 PM
mine are inside box and swapped
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Aluminum-Heat-Sink-80mm-x-50mm-x-50mm-for-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-SV-/181785320213?hash=item2a533fdb15:g:s54AAOSwAYtWQXPA

for tidier
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/New-Heat-Sink-for-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-Up-To-40A-/160615970021?hash=item25657534e5:g:6IAAAOSw7aBVGPe0

thats only for 1 3KW element

if you were running a herms and a hlt and or boiler then a fan and a couple of vent holes or as you say externally mounted
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Oh Crap on November 23, 2015, 05:41:57 PM
Quote from: CH on November 23, 2015, 01:51:05 PM
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/dancing/monkey.gif)

sestos 240v version from china
avoid the rex ones
you could go mad and buy an auber one from the US
http://www.auberins.com/?main_page=index&cPath=1

dont forget your ssr and nice big heat sink as they can get pretty hot
Your just mean.....😁 probably best to go for one capable of step mashing...$79
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Oh Crap on November 24, 2015, 08:14:23 AM
Quote from: CH on November 23, 2015, 01:51:05 PM
(http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/dancing/monkey.gif)

sestos 240v version from china
avoid the rex ones
you could go mad and buy an auber one from the US
http://www.auberins.com/?main_page=index&cPath=1

dont forget your ssr and nice big heat sink as they can get pretty hot
I looked at this one, any opinions, it will allow for step mashing (I think)
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Leann ull on November 24, 2015, 09:19:38 AM
or you could just buy basic one and adjust as required yourself ;)
You are heading into Ardbir territory there and that's probably what I would look at if you intend on doing a lot of step mashing.
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: molc on November 24, 2015, 10:32:39 AM
Yeah, an ArdBir is €99 and does stepping and more, so for the small difference, no point in getting a more complicated PID tbh. Get the simple one and manually step.

However, looks like ArdBir are now out of stock until the end of the year.
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: nigel_c on November 24, 2015, 10:36:48 AM
Pid, timer and alarm is the way I'll be doing for step mashing.
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: McMelloW on November 24, 2015, 02:37:19 PM
Quote from: CH on November 24, 2015, 09:19:38 AM
or you could just buy basic one and adjust as required yourself ;)
You are heading into Ardbir territory there and that's probably what I would look at if you intend on doing a lot of step mashing.

With ArdBir, you can enter 5 mashing steps and during boil you can set 10 hops additions. With the modern improved barley malts, I don't do more the 3 mashing steps. Also not using more then 2 or 3 additions during boil. Enough possibilities in automatic mode.

Of course there is also the manual mode were you can set the setpoint every time. When you reach the setpoint temperature a countdown timer is started.  You have to watch this yourself. Then set the new higher setpoint etc etc.  In manual mode when boiling you can adjust the power input from 1-100%

At the Open ArdBir Github (https://github.com/ardbir) you can find the latest firmware code, pcb layouts, schema. So you can buy an Arduino and all components to make your own setup. Instead of an All-in-one-board.

At lot of different possibilities.
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Leann ull on November 24, 2015, 02:48:57 PM
It's a long way from gas burners ;)
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: armedcor on November 24, 2015, 03:59:39 PM
Got myself an auber pid a while back. The manual function to control the boil is dead handy!
Title: Pid controller
Post by: Leann ull on December 15, 2015, 03:59:00 PM
Was this the thread we were talking about these?

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/15/b88bc461c6ac082eaaea4aad652fc835.jpg)

"Monkey want" I'm not going to use it on herms now as it's never going to be as easy or quick to assemble as this

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/15/e0062823802d4d7e891d5ff3e82f9659.jpg)

I'll probably get around to connecting it to the outflow at some stage
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Oh Crap on December 15, 2015, 09:04:22 PM
I think it was, I've 2 en route, should be here any day now 😄
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Oh Crap on December 17, 2015, 08:46:04 AM
Ok so my two arrived yesterday.. has anybody wired there's yet? With regards to wiring to audberins controller,they say to wirethe2 red wires to 3 & 4 and the white wire to 5,  I have 2 white and a red (do I use the whites as red etc?)
Drilling and making holes starting Sat 😁
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: Leann ull on December 17, 2015, 09:15:33 AM
Try that yeah us mere mortals only have sestos you won't damage it, make sure you have selected correct probe type on pid menu
Failing that drop auberins a mail
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: molc on December 17, 2015, 09:35:01 AM
Usual tech support answer. Look up the model number, google for the product sheet which will have all the pin out's. Usually there is a GND, +12V and data pin to connect, all of which are usually marked. You'll need to look up the same for your temp probes to see which is which.

Just make sure not to reverse GND and +12V, as that could burn out the probe.
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: nigel_c on December 17, 2015, 10:03:19 AM
How did you find the probes? I've used one in HLT and am very happy with it.
I've XLR connectors that will eventually connect them to the main box.
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: imark on December 17, 2015, 10:42:20 AM
I got one like this from aliexpress. It's the business. Works perfectly with my rex PID for herms.(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/17/acaf60af8bd470c61bebb37009dd43da.jpg)
Title: Re: Pid controller
Post by: DarraghKS on December 17, 2015, 10:56:21 AM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/17/59ed5120ceb188db85985998fe9ab62f.jpg)
I use the exact same probes. I found that you have to connect the red to the positive side of the resistor. The two whites are commons and their polarity is negligible.