National Homebrew Club Ireland

I'm about to buy an element for my hlt and just need someone to tell me whether it's good enough.
I'll be recirculating and using a Hermes coil (herms, not posh enough to for Hermes) it's the last piece I need 😄

http://www.amazon.com/Camco-02903-Screw--Foldback-Element/dp/B000KKVZUY/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1449674160&sr=8-7&keywords=Camco+element

It'll do the job. A bit slow but it will work.
You wont get a fast rise in temperature heating a large amount of liquid with a 2.5kw element. I'll be using the same size element for my herms pot and that will only be heating 6 or 7L of water.

Quote from: nigel_c on December 09, 2015, 03:35:21 PM
It'll do the job. A bit slow but it will work.
You wont get a fast rise in temperature heating a large amount of liquid with a 2.5kw element. I'll be using the same size element for my herms pot and that will only be heating 6 or 7L of water.

3kw be better? I'd be heating the water (full volume) to mash temp then (constant) recirculating the water while recirculating wort through herms coil...

Pretty much how I'm doing it. With insulation, it's about 40mins to mash in and another 40 to good rolling boil. Going to add a booster 2kw element to each pot but still quite happy with it currently.

Quote from: molc on December 09, 2015, 05:39:07 PM
Pretty much how I'm doing it. With insulation, it's about 40mins to mash in and another 40 to good rolling boil. Going to add a booster 2kw element to each pot but still quite happy with it currently.

It's your fault molc 😝 I started reading your thread and now.....well I need say no more lol.

Wait till you see the control circuit when I build it. Making up a black adonised steel box for the ardbir :)

Quote from: molc on December 09, 2015, 10:08:29 PM
Wait till you see the control circuit when I build it. Making up a black adonised steel box for the ardbir :)

I chickened out of the ardbir and sold it to will_d... I'm going with aurberins ramp n soak pids...
I'm looking for panel enclosures at the min.  I even looked set the black steel (wall mounted) post boxes..I'm trying to justify the camco element and the mounting kit from brewpi...hence the other options I'm asking about.. Delivery is ridiculous from brewpi

Yey will all end doing what the old hands on Jims are doing at the mo and buying grainfathers and BM's

Quote from: CH on December 09, 2015, 10:33:41 PM
Yey will all end doing what the old hands on Jims are doing at the mo and buying grainfathers and BM's

It would have been cheaper 😂

Quote from: CH on December 09, 2015, 10:33:41 PM
Yey will all end doing what the old hands on Jims are doing at the mo and buying grainfathers and BM's

I am going to wait a few more years until I really have spent a fortune then buy a Granfather (pun intended) BM :D

Quote from: nigel_c on December 09, 2015, 03:35:21 PM
It'll do the job. A bit slow but it will work.
You wont get a fast rise in temperature heating a large amount of liquid with a 2.5kw element. I'll be using the same size element for my herms pot and that will only be heating 6 or 7L of water.

what he said
I use this on my herms pot
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stainless-Electric-Kettle-Element-Heating/dp/B00E0KHOEG/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1449704277&sr=8-8&keywords=kettle+element which is max for standard circuit
Still good after 20 brews and I have to admit I used it twice from tap temp to MT where I couldn't be arsed to set up the HLT.

Putting herms coil in HLT is outdated US Homebrew technology and was very nearly what I did until I started reading what our colleagues in UK were up to where they use max power small water volume, some even have coils in conventional kettles! theory being you want to get the absolute quickest response rate without over run and max control avoiding massive (+/- 3-5 Degree) over and underruns and thats the only way to do it.

Score on the doors posted here before using chugger is i can take a 25L Mash up 1 Degree in 45-50 secs and a 50l Mash in 1 Min 20 with typically 0.3 overshoot lasting 2-3 mins before it settle at absolute set temp because of the volume of wort flowing through.
I've watched it for 5 mins before and it just doesn't budge thanks to the sestos pid.

The PID keeps is accurate to 0.1 Degree calibrated at return to top of grain by my thermopen.

Now if I could just brew beer! although the 38 in Belfast for a BB, a style I'd never done before was nice  :)

Quote from: Oh Crap on December 09, 2015, 03:19:10 PM
I'm about to buy an element for my hlt and just need someone to tell me whether it's good enough.
I'll be recirculating and using a Hermes coil (herms, not posh enough to for Hermes) it's the last piece I need 😄

http://www.amazon.com/Camco-02903-Screw--Foldback-Element/dp/B000KKVZUY/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1449674160&sr=8-7&keywords=Camco+element

Just be aware it doesn't come with a nut and washer if you are planning weld less. They are looking for $10 for the Oring  ???

Quote from: CH on December 09, 2015, 11:59:31 PM
Putting herms coil in HLT is outdated US Homebrew technology and was very nearly what I did until I started reading what our colleagues in UK were up to where they use max power small water volume, some even have coils in conventional kettles! theory being you want to get the absolute quickest response rate without over run and max control avoiding massive (+/- 3-5 Degree) over and underruns and thats the only way to do it.

I get it and it's a solid idea, but I don't know why they have such big variances, unless they don't have PID ors. I was controlling mine manually for the first few brews, just using an STC, yet could stay within 1C of my target temperature all mash long.

With 20L water in the HLT, I have a response time of 1C/45s using a 2.5kW element - it's strange that double the volume of water isn't have a large effect on the rise time - I would have expected yours to be closer to 20s/C.

How long does it take you to get from 65 to 76, for your mash out? I'm at about 12 minutes, at the output of the mashtun. This should be where your rig shines.

Also, you mention you bring 25L mash up 1C in ~50 seconds. Are you measuring your temperature at the output of the mash tun to verify that? The only way you would have that response for the full mash is if you were recirculating at more than 25L/min, which isn't going to happen without turning your grain bed into a brick. :D

I know it's nit picking, but just have to be careful with comparisons to make sure we're comparing like with like.

There are other factors so if you wanted to heat 20L 11 degrees with a 2.5KW element it should only take 6 mins but heat loss is a massive factor.
Sorry just to be clear the volumes in my 25L brew are typically 5-6kgs of grain and 20L of water about 4-5L gets absorbed by grain and the chugger pumps at 14-15L minute so you could argue that I get a full pass every minute, mashtun is a thermopot so good heat rention.
It will do that temp ramp in just under 9 Mins

The temp is measured at the T but calibrated at end of the return at the sprayhead.
This keg spear is moved up and down each time to sit just below the level of the mash liquor

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/10/275185d61a272c6b63279c0a178f0978.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/10/4af44f0f9fea980ad4f58191a545ee05.jpg)



The reason I didn't go for a coil in my thermopot HLT is concern about how much juice was required to ramp 35L up 1 degree, (I always try leave my elements wet to prolong their life so min 15L) and herms coils i have seen in hlt's tend to be quite long for some reason.

That spray head is a thing of beauty :) I see you've gone the bag route as well on the mashtun - it really does make cleanup so much easier.
The Brewpi coil in the hlt is quite big, though is usually covered when where's ~15L of water. At that stage, you're pumping the heated water through the coil anyway to sparge, so it just comes down to how quickly you can do the ramp. Since I need to get the HLT upto temp anyway, I've always found it quite efficient.

A large HLT is always going to be slower to to change temperature and I do think the smaller herms are a good idea, especcially if you are sparging with more than 20L of water. The smaller system will scale much better with larger scale brewing.
For a standard 20L batch, I find having a single HLT for both functions outweighs the disadvantage, especially once you learn how to work with it and get your pid control dialed in.

I haven't used that bag yet its just sitting there :-\.
Prolongued sparging, in herms is pointless in my view as you have already extracted the sugars and they are in solution.
All I need to do at that point is wash any off the surface of the grain and for me thats drain and then rinse.
BTW I come across as being a cocky fuck know it all but just to be clear there is absolutely no right or wrong way to do this just shared info and why I'm really interested in SA's rims and the Ardbir stuff, and why if I was being honest with myself I'm probably more in love with the process and hardware rather than the beer :o.
Its a bloody long way from that shit in a bucket i made in the 80's as a student though!

Enough reflection back on topic, that elements good if you had the money buy an LWD from Homebrew builder way better and he will give you all the bits to get you going.

Quote from: CH on December 10, 2015, 11:53:49 AM
I haven't used that bag yet its just sitting there :-\.
Prolongued sparging, in herms is pointless in my view as you have already extracted the sugars and they are in solution.
All I need to do at that point is wash any off the surface of the grain and for me thats drain and then rinse.
BTW I come across as being a cocky fuck know it all but just to be clear there is absolutely no right or wrong way to do this just shared info and why I'm really interested in SA's rims and the Ardbir stuff, and why if I was being honest with myself I'm probably more in love with the process and hardware rather than the beer :o.
Its a bloody long way from that shit in a bucket i made in the 80's as a student though!

Enough reflection back on topic, that elements good if you had the money buy an LWD from Homebrew builder way better and he will give you all the bits to get you going.

I'm enjoying the debate. Good to see opposing arguments, the only reason in doing that way is because of the spare gear i have...
Homebrew builder... Edit brew builder.co.uk... Thanks ch

Thanks CH (and feck u molc for starting all this 😜)
I went with the one from homebrew builder, 3kw lwd.
The wife is looking at all of the parcels arriving 🙈 Just 2 more deliveries then building time, I love a Christmas project...ill have plenty of time in the brew shed when she sees the cc bill

Perhaps you should consider a name change of your brewery to "The Dog House" ?

Quote from: Oh Crap on December 11, 2015, 08:11:29 AM
Thanks CH (and feck u molc for starting all this 😜)
I went with the one from homebrew builder, 3kw lwd.
The wife is looking at all of the parcels arriving 🙈 Just 2 more deliveries then building time, I love a Christmas project...ill have plenty of time in the brew shed when she sees the cc bill

My work here is done :) I think I should put a big disclaimer on my thread saying just buy a Grainfather and enjoy. Just love my DIY too much :D

That's it. Its all well and good buying off the shelf but I love putting in the time doing the research and getting exactly what I want. It's like putting a recipe together. I'd spend nearly as long researching and putting a recipe together as I would polishing off a keg.  :P

Anyway keep thread updated. Good to see how other people's builds are going as well.