I've read mixed information on dry hopping. Some say 14 days, some 7. I have one in the FV and I intend to rack after a week and then dry hop for two weeks before bottling. What have you all done in the way of dry hopping?
Any tips appreciated thanks!
A lot of the west coast IPA producing breweries in the states limit their dry hop additions to 3 or 4 days max. It helps to avoid the raw grassy flavours you sometimes get with dry hopping. I take this approach as well and it seems to work well.
The most important factor in successful dry hopping IMO is to use fresh hops.
That's good to know thanks! Add them at the last 4 days in secondary then?
Yep, that'd be fine. I don't normally bother with secondary (I don't see any clear benefit and it's another infection risk). My process is usually to crash the temp to 17C in primary once I'm happy with the beer, wait a day or two and then add the dry hops. I'll usually remove the hops after 3 or 4 days and then cold crash for a couple of days (to 0C) and fine with gelatin.
The process you use will depend on your equipment and preferences.
Quote from: banjobrew on December 20, 2015, 10:41:45 PM
I've read mixed information on dry hopping. Some say 14 days, some 7. I have one in the FV and I intend to rack after a week and then dry hop for two weeks before bottling. What have you all done in the way of dry hopping?
Any tips appreciated thanks!
The biggest factors in dry hopping are:
- time - 7 days max in my opinion, especially if you're using large amounts of hops.
- temperature - slightly warmer is better, as this aids in oil extraction.
- pellet or leaf hops (pellet hops are pulverised and give up their oils a lot easier. But they will also give more of the grassy flavours that Jr Jacoby talks about. It's particularly important when dry hopping with pellets to watch how long you're dry hoping for.)
- variety (generally speaking, the higher alpha hops will have a higher oil content which gives a stronger/harsher dry hop character)
Always worth mentioning sanitation. Many a brewer has come unstuck because of muslin bags that weren't fully sanitised. And if you are using muslin bags (and I recommend you do) make sure you weigh the bag down with sanitised marbles or similar)
Quote from: Bubbles on December 21, 2015, 09:30:59 AM
Quote from: banjobrew on December 20, 2015, 10:41:45 PM
I've read mixed information on dry hopping. Some say 14 days, some 7. I have one in the FV and I intend to rack after a week and then dry hop for two weeks before bottling. What have you all done in the way of dry hopping?
Any tips appreciated thanks!
The biggest factors in dry hopping are:
- time - 7 days max in my opinion, especially if you're using large amounts of hops.
- temperature - slightly warmer is better, as this aids in oil extraction.
- pellet or leaf hops (pellet hops are pulverised and give up their oils a lot easier. But they will also give more of the grassy flavours that Jr Jacoby talks about. It's particularly important when dry hopping with pellets to watch how long you're dry hoping for.)
- variety (generally speaking, the higher alpha hops will have a higher oil content which gives a stronger/harsher dry hop character)
Always worth mentioning sanitation. Many a brewer has come unstuck because of muslin bags that weren't fully sanitised. And if you are using muslin bags (and I recommend you do) make sure you weigh the bag down with sanitised marbles or similar)
2nd that opinion on sanitation of the muslin bags unless you like the taste/aroma of "giddy up/horse blanket" off your beer. I would suggest boil & simmer for 15.minutes, drain squeeze (with rubber gloves sanitised in star San or similar) & then drop the bag in starsan for 30 seconds before squeezing out again & using.
Shanna
Quote from: Bubbles on December 21, 2015, 09:30:59 AM
Quote from: banjobrew on December 20, 2015, 10:41:45 PM
I've read mixed information on dry hopping. Some say 14 days, some 7. I have one in the FV and I intend to rack after a week and then dry hop for two weeks before bottling. What have you all done in the way of dry hopping?
Any tips appreciated thanks!
The biggest factors in dry hopping are:
- time - 7 days max in my opinion, especially if you're using large amounts of hops.
- temperature - slightly warmer is better, as this aids in oil extraction.
- pellet or leaf hops (pellet hops are pulverised and give up their oils a lot easier. But they will also give more of the grassy flavours that Jr Jacoby talks about. It's particularly important when dry hopping with pellets to watch how long you're dry hoping for.)
- variety (generally speaking, the higher alpha hops will have a higher oil content which gives a stronger/harsher dry hop character)
Always worth mentioning sanitation. Many a brewer has come unstuck because of muslin bags that weren't fully sanitised. And if you are using muslin bags (and I recommend you do) make sure you weigh the bag down with sanitised marbles or similar)
Why do you recommend muslin bags out of interest? I always thought they were a pain to remove from the carboy, and sanitising them adds an extra step to the dry hopping process.
Of course, I'm cold crashing and gelatin fining so no loose plant matter makes it into the bottle, but if you're not using these steps I can definitely see why a bag would be necessary. If your hops are in a bag then it's also super simple to harvest the yeast cake... Any other reasons?
Banjobrew - I'm a new brewer so still figuring out my processes, but I generally dry hop somewhere between 3-7 days. There also might be reason to believe that less time can be beneficial when it comes to dry hopping - http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/26/dry-hop-length-long-vs-short-exbeeriment-results/
Quote from: craiclad on December 21, 2015, 10:22:53 AM
Quote from: Bubbles on December 21, 2015, 09:30:59 AM
Quote from: banjobrew on December 20, 2015, 10:41:45 PM
I've read mixed information on dry hopping. Some say 14 days, some 7. I have one in the FV and I intend to rack after a week and then dry hop for two weeks before bottling. What have you all done in the way of dry hopping?
Any tips appreciated thanks!
The biggest factors in dry hopping are:
- time - 7 days max in my opinion, especially if you're using large amounts of hops.
- temperature - slightly warmer is better, as this aids in oil extraction.
- pellet or leaf hops (pellet hops are pulverised and give up their oils a lot easier. But they will also give more of the grassy flavours that Jr Jacoby talks about. It's particularly important when dry hopping with pellets to watch how long you're dry hoping for.)
- variety (generally speaking, the higher alpha hops will have a higher oil content which gives a stronger/harsher dry hop character)
Always worth mentioning sanitation. Many a brewer has come unstuck because of muslin bags that weren't fully sanitised. And if you are using muslin bags (and I recommend you do) make sure you weigh the bag down with sanitised marbles or similar)
Why do you recommend muslin bags out of interest? I always thought they were a pain to remove from the carboy, and sanitising them adds an extra step to the dry hopping process.
Of course, I'm cold crashing and gelatin fining so no loose plant matter makes it into the bottle, but if you're not using these steps I can definitely see why a bag would be necessary. If your hops are in a bag then it's also super simple to harvest the yeast cake... Any other reasons?
Banjobrew - I'm a new brewer so still figuring out my processes, but I generally dry hop somewhere between 3-7 days. Take this with a grain of salt, but there might be reason to believe that less time can be beneficial when it comes to dry hopping - http://brulosophy.com/2015/10/26/dry-hop-length-long-vs-short-exbeeriment-results/
Quote from: craiclad on December 21, 2015, 10:22:53 AM
Why do you recommend muslin bags out of interest? I always thought they were a pain to remove from the carboy, and sanitising them adds an extra step to the dry hopping process.
I use pellets, so I want to remove any chance of them clogging up my siphon and prevent me from packaging the full amount of beer.
Also, it gives me a level of control where I can easily pull the bag of hops out of the fermenter if I think they've been in there long enough, or if I see that I'm not going to get a chance to bottle for a few days and don't want to leave the beer on the hops any longer. I don't use carboys, so I can easily do that.
I tried with bags and just found it too fiddly. Now I cold crash to drop the yeast, throw in the hops and let it free rise for 3 days, then cold crash again for 1 - 2 days and then keg/bottle. If anything does get through, some gelatin fines the beer if I'm really worried about the haze.
I see, so precise control and autosiphon issues are important factors to consider.
I used a bag before I started cold crashing, at which point I started tossing the loose pellets in the carboy. I'm thinking of switching back to bagging though, as I always end up throwing out my hop laden yeast cake at the end of every batch.
Have you noticed any reduction in aroma/hop character since you started bagging? How much do you usually hop with for say a pale ale or an IPA?
Bags have pros and cons for sure. On the plus side they allow for easy removal of hop matter. On the down side they are an infection risk and encourage the hops to form into a ball which can reduce the contact with the beer.
Throwing the hops in loose is great for maximam contact, at least initially, but the bulk of the hops tend to fall out of suspension fairly quickly - this is less of a problem in wider bottomed vessels where the large surface area keeps at least a decent portion of the hops in contact with the liquid.
The best method in my experience (which I stole from Markc who makes the best hoppy beers I've ever tried) is to use a stainless steal hop filter that can be gently agitated every day to keep the hops in constant contact with the beer. It's not a cheap option but does give amazing results - assuming you use fresh hops :P
Anything like the bags are a risky thing to use again and again as the risk of contamination is there :(. What about the paint strainer bags and only use them once then throw away.
Quote from: craiclad on December 21, 2015, 11:22:52 AM... as I always end up throwing out my hop laden yeast cake at the end of every batch.
I can't believe I forgot to mention this.. yeast recovery is very important too. I typically try to get 3 or 4 brews out of every vial/sachet of yeast I use.
Quote from: craiclad on December 21, 2015, 11:22:52 AM
Have you noticed any reduction in aroma/hop character since you started bagging? How much do you usually hop with for say a pale ale or an IPA?
Sorry, forgot to address this..
I've always bagged, so to speak.. Typically around 50g for a 5 gal batch. I prefer lots of late kettle hops to dry-hopping.
Quote from: DEMPSEY on December 21, 2015, 12:07:04 PM
Anything like the bags are a risky thing to use again and again as the risk of contamination is there :(. What about the paint strainer bags and only use them once then throw away.
It's probably a good idea to replace the bags regularly alright, but I can't say I've ever had an issue with the extended use of them.
Bacteria don't have a hope after 10 mins in boiling water, and a quick soak in StarSan for good measure.
I'm going to do an ipa for the nationals with only late kettle hopping to see how it compares. Also I just won't have enough time to dry hop properly while packaging.
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on December 21, 2015, 11:23:17 AMencourage the hops to form into a ball which can reduce the contact with the beer.
You do need a good sized bag, depending on how much hops you're using, to encourage full exposure of the hops. In the past I've put too big an amount of hops into too small a bag and probably didn't get the full effect.
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on December 21, 2015, 11:23:17 AMuse a stainless steal hop filter that can be gently agitated every day to keep the hops in constant c - assuming you use fresh hops :P
Have you got a link to one of these doo-dads?
Quote from: molc on December 21, 2015, 12:19:02 PM
I'm going to do an ipa for the nationals with only late kettle hopping to see how it compares.
jeez man, you're cutting it fine. Mine's bottled..
;) :D Just kidding! I'm not even entering an IPA this year!)
Quote from: Bubbles on December 21, 2015, 12:21:39 PMHave you got a link to one of these doo-dads?
I do (https://utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper) ;D
And here's another option (http://www.homebrewing.org/300-Micron-Hop-Filter-w-Lid_p_3470.html).
Quote from: molc on December 21, 2015, 12:19:02 PM
I'm going to do an ipa for the nationals with only late kettle hopping to see how it compares. Also I just won't have enough time to dry hop properly while packaging.
Have you ever considered dry hopping during active fermentation? I've heard it's used by commercial brewers frequently, and helps reduce oxygenation.
Quote from: Bubbles on December 21, 2015, 12:22:38 PM
Quote from: molc on December 21, 2015, 12:19:02 PM
I'm going to do an ipa for the nationals with only late kettle hopping to see how it compares.
jeez man, you're cutting it fine. Mine's bottled..
;) :D Just kidding! I'm not even entering an IPA this year!)
Well they say it should be fresh; hopefully it won't be still fermenting when I submit :D
Kind of cocked up my entries for this year as I wasn't happy with anything I made, so doing last minute rebrews trying to get something that I think will be up to standard.
Next year I'm just going to have pick a style and brew it again and again and...
Quote from: craiclad on December 21, 2015, 12:53:47 PM
Quote from: molc on December 21, 2015, 12:19:02 PM
I'm going to do an ipa for the nationals with only late kettle hopping to see how it compares. Also I just won't have enough time to dry hop properly while packaging.
Have you ever considered dry hopping during active fermentation? I've heard it's used by commercial brewers frequently, and helps reduce oxygenation.
Yeah I've read about it, but never tried tbh. Then again, I've only ever brewed maybe 3 ipas in my life, so haven't had enough time to really experiment.
One good approach if you want to try multiple dry hop additions is to add some dry hops to primary when fermentation slows down and then transfer to a corny (or secondary vessel if bottling) for a second or third dry hop addition.
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on December 21, 2015, 12:38:42 PM
Quote from: Bubbles on December 21, 2015, 12:21:39 PMHave you got a link to one of these doo-dads?
I do (https://utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#cornydryhopper) ;D
And here's another option (http://www.homebrewing.org/300-Micron-Hop-Filter-w-Lid_p_3470.html).
Thank you, sir!
(have the "Thank" links been removed, mods??)
Quote from: craiclad on December 21, 2015, 12:53:47 PM
Quote from: molc on December 21, 2015, 12:19:02 PM
I'm going to do an ipa for the nationals with only late kettle hopping to see how it compares. Also I just won't have enough time to dry hop properly while packaging.
Have you ever considered dry hopping during active fermentation? I've heard it's used by commercial brewers frequently, and helps reduce oxygenation.
It is used by commercial brewers to some extent. But commercial brewers are more concerned with shelf-life than a home brewer would be. We have the ability to make hoppy beers and drink them when they're really fresh, and know exactly how fresh they are and how they're being stored and served.
Dry-hopping in secondary will introduce minimal oxygen, so don't be worried about that. If you are dry hopping in primary, do so after 3 or 4 days when the bulk of fermentation has been done, so as not to scrub out some of the volatile aromas. Of course, you can always compensate for this by simply adding more hops. Hth.
Quote from: Bubbles on December 21, 2015, 02:18:57 PM
(have the "Thank" links been removed, mods??)
Well spotted. It was turned off on some boards for some reason. Fixed now.
Okay time for a case study...
23 litres of 1.042 OG and 50g mix of pellet and leaf for dry hopping. I have a 5 gallon carboy for secondary and no available muslin bags. I would like to save the yeast cake.
My original plan was to rack after a week and then 2 weeks in secondary with the last 4 days bagless dry hopping.
My main concern is giving the yeast enough time to eat up those off-flavours.
Quote from: banjobrew on December 21, 2015, 08:46:14 PM
Okay time for a case study...
23 litres of 1.042 OG and 50g mix of pellet and leaf for dry hopping. I have a 5 gallon carboy for secondary and no available muslin bags. I would like to save the yeast cake.
My original plan was to rack after a week and then 2 weeks in secondary with the last 4 days bagless dry hopping.
My main concern is giving the yeast enough time to eat up those off-flavours.
Pale ale I'm assuming? I would say your plan is spot on - rack to secondary after initial fermentation, harvest the yeast cake, and then dry hop with loose hops for however long you want.
Quote from: craiclad on December 21, 2015, 08:58:03 PM
Quote from: banjobrew on December 21, 2015, 08:46:14 PM
Okay time for a case study...
23 litres of 1.042 OG and 50g mix of pellet and leaf for dry hopping. I have a 5 gallon carboy for secondary and no available muslin bags. I would like to save the yeast cake.
My original plan was to rack after a week and then 2 weeks in secondary with the last 4 days bagless dry hopping.
My main concern is giving the yeast enough time to eat up those off-flavours.
Pale ale I'm assuming? I would say your plan is spot on - rack to secondary after initial fermentation, harvest the yeast cake, and then dry hop with loose hops for however long you want.
Well that's good enough for me! Yeah a session IPA. I'm working on my 'house' IPA so the idea is that this will be tweaked brew by brew.
Just on harvesting yeast, maybe look into overbuilding your starters instead? There's a lot less faffing needed and I find it more predictible. Also means I can throw the hops in and not worry about the yeast cake.
Quote from: molc on December 22, 2015, 08:56:47 AM
Just on harvesting yeast, maybe look into overbuilding your starters instead? There's a lot less faffing needed and I find it more predictible. Also means I can throw the hops in and not worry about the yeast cake.
+1
It also means that your yeast is purer and will not contain any potential off flavours from the fermentation process of your beer hops or adjuncts.
Quote from: banjobrew on December 21, 2015, 08:46:14 PM
My original plan was to rack after a week and then 2 weeks in secondary with the last 4 days bagless dry hopping.
I'd recommend you don't do this. By removing the beer from the yeast cake you're eliminating the yeast's ability to clean up the by-products of fermentation. Also, racking will encourage more yeast to flocc out. You need to leave your beer on the yeast and let it do its job. No point in rushing things.
Quote from: Bubbles on December 22, 2015, 10:16:51 AM
Quote from: banjobrew on December 21, 2015, 08:46:14 PM
My original plan was to rack after a week and then 2 weeks in secondary with the last 4 days bagless dry hopping.
I'd recommend you don't do this. By removing the beer from the yeast cake you're eliminating the yeast's ability to clean up the by-products of fermentation. Also, racking will encourage more yeast to flocc out. You need to leave your beer on the yeast and let it do its job. No point in rushing things.
+1
Maybe leave the beer in primary for two weeks and dry hop in the same vessel for 4 days. If you have the ability to control the temperature you can then cold crash to as close to 0C as possible to encourage everything to settle out and bottle or keg from there.
Quote from: Dr Jacoby on December 22, 2015, 10:29:52 AM
Quote from: Bubbles on December 22, 2015, 10:16:51 AM
Quote from: banjobrew on December 21, 2015, 08:46:14 PM
My original plan was to rack after a week and then 2 weeks in secondary with the last 4 days bagless dry hopping.
I'd recommend you don't do this. By removing the beer from the yeast cake you're eliminating the yeast's ability to clean up the by-products of fermentation. Also, racking will encourage more yeast to flocc out. You need to leave your beer on the yeast and let it do its job. No point in rushing things.
+1
Maybe leave the beer in primary for two weeks and dry hop in the same vessel for 4 days. If you have the ability to control the temperature you can then cold crash to as close to 0C as possible to encourage everything to settle out and bottle or keg from there.
Rushing is definitely not something I plan on doing. I want to do what's best for the beer so all this is gold. John Palmer always recommends single stage fermentation and it's something I'd like to go back to but I just assumed if dry hopping that a secondary is needed. Don't know why now that I think of it. Might just pop the lid on the FV on day 17, throw in my hops and keg/bottle on day 21.
Fair points on the yeast harvesting. I just don't have a flask for making a yeast starter and thought this would've been the best alternative.
Quote from: molc on December 22, 2015, 08:56:47 AM
Just on harvesting yeast, maybe look into overbuilding your starters instead? There's a lot less faffing needed and I find it more predictible. Also means I can throw the hops in and not worry about the yeast cake.
I always wanted to do this, but I don't have a stirplate so I have a hard time hitting recommended pitching rates as is with a 2L flask... Always worried about how much yeast being removed with high flocculant strains as well. What's your technique?
Quote from: craiclad on December 23, 2015, 07:04:35 PM
Quote from: molc on December 22, 2015, 08:56:47 AM
Just on harvesting yeast, maybe look into overbuilding your starters instead? There's a lot less faffing needed and I find it more predictible. Also means I can throw the hops in and not worry about the yeast cake.
I always wanted to do this, but I don't have a stirplate so I have a hard time hitting recommended pitching rates as is with a 2L flask... Always worried about how much yeast being removed with high flocculant strains as well. What's your technique?
Stirplate and overbuild by 100B cells using a calculator. There's a good one that shows you how much liquid to hold back. Then mix well and pitch, keeping back the recommended a mount, which I then decant into a vial.
Other times, I just crash the starter in the fridge, remove most of the liquid and pour into a flask first, with the rest going into my beer.
Most yeasts fallout within 3-4 hours with exception of lagers, lie Molc I pour off nearly all wort so as not to dilute the beer.
If you crash cool you need to bring back to pitch temp to avoid thermal shock