National Homebrew Club Ireland

Hi All,

I need a bit of help. This is my first post here so excuse the amateurish explanation of my problem!

I made two batches a few months ago, one a Winter Ale and another a coconut stout. Both used the base malt of a Pale Minch Barley and both were bottle carbonated (lazily) with one coopers carbonation drop per bottle of 500ml swing tops.

Now that its time for drinking, (both taste really good, although the coconut one could be more coconutty!) , somehow the stout gushes like crazy when opened, wasting 1/3 of beer and disturbing the settled yeast at the bottom of the bottle. The carbonation in the left over beer itself is mild and smooth.
The winter ale, no porblems at all, perfect for my standards.

My questions are:
Should I vent all my bottles by slightly opening then closing before foam or does that risk contamination?
As the beer was definitely finished fermenting when bottled, could this have happened due to some of the specialty grains used in the stout?

I was hoping to throw this into the home brew comp so I'm pretty peeved at this outcome even though it tastes great!!


Any help at all would be great, thanks all...
 

Could be an infection as well, especcially if it just keeps bubbling away after opening.

Hi Deemon, welcome aboard

Are you by any chance opening the bottles at room temperature? If so that might be the problem, try chilling a few bottles as cold as you can get them. Might help keep the CO2 in solution.

Thanks for replies guys,

Not at room temperature, 1st one i tried after being in the fridge for 2 days, the 2nd one i tried after a week being chilled.

:( oh don't say infection ! - but the taste is still very good? unless I'm missing a hint of off flavour. The gushing occurs for about a third of the bottle so it does .....eventually stop.

Would ye think venting would be beneficial or do more harm than good?

I would venture one or 2, then leave them for a week. No harm done

Quote from: auralabuse on December 21, 2015, 01:34:08 PM
I would venture one or 2, then leave them for a week. No harm done

If definitely no harm to them I will test this out, maybe with a 1/3 of the batch though as Id like a few over the holiday season.

Really want to know how this occurred though. never had it happen in 5 years of homebrewing before! - I'm hoping its the type/harvest of grain I purchased producing some type of oxalates?

Before we go shouting INFECTION let's try a few things. Get says bottles and vent and reseal them to see if it is an over carbonation issue. Leave them a day or 2 and then cracking open one.

Any issues with dodgy bottles not fully clean :-\

 :o .... I'm usually over enthusiastic (weird I know, the biggest chore of all) about cleaning the bottles so doubting that one. especially if they is a consistent amount of gushing.

But thanks , will do the vent and reseal and report back  to you all. I needed the assurance that I wouldn't risk infections/tioo much CO2 loss from doing it.

Venting will insure nothing gets in so is OK :)

Mouldy grain can cause gushing, was your grain fresh?

Isn't 1 carb drop per 500 ml too much?

Yeah, I think it's just a case of too much fermentables in the bottle. Maybe look at batch priming next time

How long was primary and or secondary fermentation and temp before you bottled?
What was og and fg?

OP I had the same issue when I made a coconut stout myself.  All the bottles gushed no matter how they were treated. 
It definitely wasn't an infection as there were no off flavours and no bottle bombs, could it be a feature of the coconut addition?

really interesting? I was thinking was it the coconuts could be an issue-  I carved the coconut meat out myself and roasted so they were natural and not carvings from a bag. Maybe the oils from them have an effect?

Primary 2 weeks, secondary in bottles has been 6 weeks.
OG: 1.052
FG:  1.010

Oils would suppress head height. If there are hard particles of coconut in the beer they may form nucleonic points (this can cause the gas to break out of solution, similar to if you put a grain of rice or a couple of grains of sugar in beer) which could also be a factor.

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on December 22, 2015, 09:36:49 AM
Oils would suppress head height. If there are hard particles of coconut in the beer they may form nucleonic points (this can cause the gas to break out of solution, similar to if you put a grain of rice or a couple of grains of sugar in beer) which could also be a factor.

Interesting, I'm learning every day :D . Ill check closer for particles when i test the vented ones to verify it!

Like mentos in coke 😨

Gotta love chemistry  :D

Could residual oxi cleaner cause this?

I would have thought that the beer at ph 4 would have neutralised any Oxi cleaner?

Does the beer left over in the bottle have much Co2 left in it? If you pour the beer in to a glass does it go flat or stay carbed?  I had a stout that I bottled previously that gushed like crazy & it was down to bottles that were infected with a wild yeast. I had cleaned them with chemical cleaners but some still had a small amount of crud in them. I eventually ended up chucking the bottles & now individually clean my bottles with hot water & oxy.

Shanna

And not in the dishwasher which is less than useless

Quote from: CH on December 23, 2015, 05:10:59 PM
And not in the dishwasher which is less than useless

Guilty as charged on that approach also ;-)

Shanna

I have done loads of stuff which has been BS brewing and made some shit beer, Smithwicks comp was the last one and went into it half heartedly and rushed, what did I expect!, happy to take solace in the porter I did after it.
Others have taught me well, just here to share and learn... 

All,

Thanks for the replies and interest.

Over the Christmas I sampled many of these and I was quite surprised with the outcome as they all tasted great. Gushing was still a big issue though even after  venting 3-4 times. I found getting the bottles to 2/3 degrees slowed it down a lot.

@ Sorcerers Apprentice - there was in fact a good amount of particles visible in the beer and the beer itself was left with sufficient carbonation after the gushing subsided. Although I cannot confirm how much of particles could have been yeast residue, I was fairly sure I minimised particles using muslin bags for the coconut.

Have given one of the bottles to an established brewer to get his opinion also.....(warning label included!)

For anyone who is interested, brewer came back to me and all positive on the beer apart from the gushing of course.

He said definitely that the overflow is down to nucleation from the coconut particles and in next batch to try filter more of these out. Who would have known that coconut was bad for your head!

Science rocks!..... O0

Good stuff. Did he give you any ideas on how to filter the particles better?

You could use something like this
http://mountainhomebrew.com/browseproducts/Vinamat-Pressure-Filter-Kit.HTML

Alternatively you could use a cheap cone/funnel and coffee filter paper

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on January 08, 2016, 01:08:14 PM
Alternatively you could use a cheap cone/funnel and coffee filter paper

For bottling? Would that not filter out the yeast before it carbonates? Could also see it oxidising the hell out of the beer.

I use gelatin for clarifying and it's excellent. It's very cheap too so could be worth a go.

Quote from: BrewDorg on January 08, 2016, 02:59:35 PM

I use gelatin for clarifying and it's excellent. It's very cheap too so could be worth a go.

Brewdorg where are you getting cheap gelatin as a matter of interest?

Tesco :)

If you are bottle conditioning then the yeast will mop up any dissolved O2, as you suggest fining should catch most of the particles, if you were worried about yeast being filtered you could always add a little from the fermenter to the bottling bucket after filtration.

Mild filtering will not remove all the yeast so you will still have plenty to bottle condition and any oxygen will be eaten by the yeast in the bottle conditioning. 

Snap ;D

Great minds and all that Brian!!
Anyone considering bottling beer to be stored for a long time, should consider adding a little gypsum to the mash liquor it binds to the calcium oxylate and removes it in the kettle during the Boil.  Left to its own devices the calcium oxylate can form crystals in the beer over time, which causes gushing issues

Quote from: cruiscinlan on January 08, 2016, 05:01:22 PM

Quote from: BrewDorg on January 08, 2016, 02:59:35 PM

I use gelatin for clarifying and it's excellent. It's very cheap too so could be worth a go.

Brewdorg where are you getting cheap gelatin as a matter of interest?

Just looking at it now, it's not crazy cheap. Got it from The Homebrew Company. Around a 5er for 100g which will last me ages, so worth the 5er.

Just wondering lads, if the yeast is going to eat up all the oxygen during conditioning, why are people usually so anal about preventing the introduction of oxygen after fermentation? Genuinely curious as this goes against anything I've heard before. Also, would you really call a coffee filter 'mild filtering'?

Coffee filters are rated around 10-20 micron and generally yeast cells are around 2-3 micron
Regarding dissolved oxygen post fermentation, bottle/cask conditioning mops this up but force carbonating eg corny Kegging doesn't and beer will deteriorate quicker

Also oxygen will stale the beer quickly and give that cardboard taste if there is too much introduced during bottling.

The yeast will eat up most of it during its lag phase, so when you bottle with sugar or when your begin fermentation and the yeast builds up reserves in the cells.