National Homebrew Club Ireland

Brewing Discussions => Equipment & Chemicals => Topic started by: Leann ull on January 05, 2016, 07:35:14 PM

Title: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on January 05, 2016, 07:35:14 PM
So wanted some hot water to clean out kegs and threw on my 70l boiler rcd tripped 3 mins later

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/05/8bcd40937197666a84c6b00e261bd486.jpg)


Pin of the element

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/05/c9c4a4de617fd447c1eb0526a36acc58.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/05/98aa7be76599e8e52bda221110364330.jpg)

The element had done at least 10-12 boils before now.
I'm not sure it's because I didn't push the connector on fully and it arced or whether the element hadn't been cleaned properly underneath and went cruddy.
Connector worked perfectly on other element.

Either way
1. make sure if you are using kettle elements push on connector properly
2. Always give your elements a good scrub after use, I need to go back to the toothbrush to get underneath

Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Greg2013 on January 05, 2016, 07:39:02 PM
If ya need a spare element drop by and pick it up. ;D
Title: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on January 05, 2016, 09:15:29 PM
Cheers Greg but this is a 13amp jobbie, I wouldn't mind but just because it's a beast I didn't have a spare, 2 enroute this ave now though to match my other redundancy standards
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: auralabuse on January 05, 2016, 09:31:03 PM
I would say there was a gap and it arced, looks that way
Title: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on January 22, 2016, 10:49:47 PM
2.75kw replacement arrived installed and leak tested no probs
Turned both upside down to give me more space off the bottom for better whirlpool and easier access with a toothbrush to clean into nooks and crannies

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160122/0da7f7e16dc4aa334ac96e7942ec315e.jpg)

And a spare(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160122/3c3c197cec7f84dc3e68ee9f0f583eb7.jpg)
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: alealex on January 23, 2016, 11:52:07 AM
Where did you get those elements John? They're not ss or are they? 5/4 inch thread?
Title: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on January 23, 2016, 12:00:07 PM
Standard thread 39mm I think
Are all kettle elements galvanised I don't know tbh I'm sure they are stainless they don't rust
If I wasn't replacing a failed unit I would drill for 3kw lwd  long version from home brew builder although you would need something else if you were boiling more than 40 like me
Having 2 elements is always handy in case 1 craps out
They came from the backer site direct in the uk don't forget the female round pin part which is on eBay for a tenner
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: alealex on January 23, 2016, 12:15:57 PM
Lwd are great job. I'm actually looking for copper element to fit 5/4 ferule welded to the tank (hard to get!)
Elements are not always s/s.
There's some reaction going between element and ss tank while boiling. First element I had lost its galvanised or chrome coating after about 20 boils.
Ss one seems much better now.
But I trust copper better.
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on January 23, 2016, 01:29:15 PM
I'm sure it's stainless just feels rough on bend the sister has done over 20 60 and 90 min boils now of a lot of high gravity stuff no rust and I'm sure it failed because of my negligence rather than unit

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160123/797d00841bc285c3d84e9b2706ffc833.jpg)
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on January 23, 2016, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: CH on January 23, 2016, 12:00:07 PM
Standard thread 39mm I think
Are all kettle elements galvanised I don't know tbh I'm sure they are stainless they don't rust
If I wasn't replacing a failed unit I would drill for 3kw lwd  long version from home brew builder although you would need something else if you were boiling more than 40 like me
Having 2 elements is always handy in case 1 craps out
They came from the backer site direct in the uk don't forget the female round pin part which is on eBay for a tenner
Is the site ?
http://www.backerelectric.com/products/kettle_elements.asp

Shanna
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: alealex on January 23, 2016, 02:42:07 PM
Checked this site myself and I think this must be their site. Not much in it only heating elements and thermostats btw. At least solid elements!
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: molc on April 04, 2016, 12:58:13 PM
Managed to run both my kettles dry at the weekend through stupidity. Thankfully only lost one of the elements - the ULWD glowed but kept working after through some miracle. The high density one is toast.

Got two of these to replace: http://www.amazon.co.uk/First4Spares-Universal-Heating-Element-Connector-x/dp/B00E4L4MFA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_79_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=41tRilh8ajL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1YTT9BQV8K5B8R88FVP7

Really hope they're 2.75kW - there's nothing on the page :/
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on April 04, 2016, 01:10:46 PM
I'm not even going to ask
to prolong the life of the elements in the hlt I always leave them covered to avoid excessive thermal shock.

Ones with circular pins are 2.7
See also questions asked in the description.

Do you have stainless nuts for the back?

Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: DEMPSEY on April 04, 2016, 01:13:53 PM
Check all valves are closed. I should have put that on a repeating timer.
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: molc on April 04, 2016, 02:14:36 PM
Quote from: CH on April 04, 2016, 01:10:46 PM
I'm not even going to ask
Ones with circular pins are 2.7
See also questions asked in the description.

Do you have stainless nuts for the back?
Late night brew and some stupidity. Going to change process to stop it happening in the future, as I managed to empty both the BK and HLT while the elements were running.

Circular pins is a great hint - thanks!

No, I don't have any lock nuts. I've been using the plastic one that came with the THBC elements up to now and it works with judicious use of PDFE tape. Will hunt down lock nuts on ebay though for these.

Quote from: DEMPSEY on April 04, 2016, 01:13:53 PM
Check all valves are closed. I should have put that on a repeating timer.
Been there, done that. Now I have a bucket under each tap, just in case :D
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on April 04, 2016, 02:21:12 PM
Kev from Roundwood posted the link recently for KM8's, they are expensive but quality ones won't rust.
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Kevin O'Roundwood on April 04, 2016, 03:16:53 PM
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/BEARING-OPTIONS-KM-SERIES-STAINLESS-STEEL-LOCKNUTS-LOCK-WASHER-TYPE-/200845936093?var=500121950447&hash=item2ec359c5dd:m:mUUeVupwjns1MIYQMm0OpuQ

Here's the ones I got. Not cheap but the cheapest I could find and they seem to be top quality
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Motorbikeman on April 04, 2016, 05:02:05 PM
Molc.   SHanna  and I got caught out buying elements of spares to go.  i think others also.   

They are 1500w from that company.

I think their is a link in my keggle build thread to take you to the 2750w and 2400w type.

 
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: molc on April 04, 2016, 08:49:33 PM
That's what I get for not asking in here first! Ah well, it's the second booster element, so not a big deal. It's replacing a 2kw so not going to lose a lot. Thanks for the link Kevin, I ordered 2 of those as well.

Now, can I please stop breaking bits!
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on April 05, 2016, 07:48:39 PM
Quote from: molc on April 04, 2016, 08:49:33 PM
That's what I get for not asking in here first! Ah well, it's the second booster element, so not a big deal. It's replacing a 2kw so not going to lose a lot. Thanks for the link Kevin, I ordered 2 of those as well.

Now, can I please stop breaking bits!
Will you use those on the outside to secure the element? I would have thought that you need to protect the copper prongs of the element?

Shanna
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on April 05, 2016, 08:23:46 PM
You mean like these that I have on my hlt and boiler
https://www.brewbuilder.co.uk/shroud-for-2-4kw-kettle.html
Only really use them as I have double skin and they just finish it off the single nuts are fine
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on April 05, 2016, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: CH on April 05, 2016, 08:23:46 PM
You mean like these that I have on my hlt and boiler
https://www.brewbuilder.co.uk/shroud-for-2-4kw-kettle.html
Only really use them as I have double skin and they just finish it off the single nuts are fine
The elements I have come with a plastic shroud that is threaded. It's screwed on to the thread of the element. I would not have thought that there is enough thread to screw both the lockout & the shroud on to?

Shanna
Title: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on April 05, 2016, 08:52:07 PM
The shroud is threaded and acts like a nut
Duck tape and a plumbers wrench to make it tight.
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: molc on April 05, 2016, 09:56:58 PM
From what I saw on Jim's forums, there's enough thread for both. We will see as they say :)
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on April 05, 2016, 10:06:52 PM
Probably is tbh
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on April 05, 2016, 11:05:30 PM
I assume that the ss shroud has enough space to allow the round fitting of the kettle lead to pass in to the contacts of the element? Definitely see the benefit of using the stainless as the bakelite plastic is flaky and breaks easily. Would be interested to see what it all looks like when you have it hooked up. If either Molc or yourself would post pictures that would be appreciated.

Shanna
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: molc on April 05, 2016, 11:16:47 PM
Quote from: Shanna on April 05, 2016, 11:05:30 PMIf either Molc or yourself would post pictures that would be appreciated.
Shanna

Yeah hope to install in a week or two, so will post once I do.
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on April 05, 2016, 11:36:31 PM
Quote from: molc on April 05, 2016, 11:16:47 PM
Quote from: Shanna on April 05, 2016, 11:05:30 PMIf either Molc or yourself would post pictures that would be appreciated.
Shanna

Yeah hope to install in a week or two, so will post once I do.
As always appreciated. Molc you must be bankrupt from the amount of stainless that you have invested in :) Speaking of stainless, got my hop spider and its a fine piece of engineering. No more paint strainer bags :) Wonder if bridge water would do a hop strainer for dry hopping?

Shanna
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: molc on April 06, 2016, 08:51:04 AM
Hehe, I really have finished getting all the bits at this stage. This wasn't a fun mistake though... working out to be a costly repair.
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on April 10, 2016, 07:05:27 PM
Quote from: Kevin O'Roundwood on April 04, 2016, 03:16:53 PM
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/BEARING-OPTIONS-KM-SERIES-STAINLESS-STEEL-LOCKNUTS-LOCK-WASHER-TYPE-/200845936093?var=500121950447&hash=item2ec359c5dd:m:mUUeVupwjns1MIYQMm0OpuQ

Here's the ones I got. Not cheap but the cheapest I could find and they seem to be top quality


Here's the reason to buy the expensive ones mentioned above

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160410/202a7664f4a9fc1b758f3e3d903c3754.jpg)
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Beerbuddha on April 10, 2016, 08:30:47 PM
I discovered this after I welded them onto my keg !  >:(
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: molc on April 11, 2016, 06:30:37 PM
Just arrived today and tried it out when I got home. They're a perfect fit but you'll need to box clever with the shroud as there's no thread left. Thinking a dab of superglue on the connecting lead will do it.

Even passed the wet test first time!
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on April 11, 2016, 06:35:42 PM
When connecting make sure they are fully located to prevent short, also street lights will dim and guards will be sniffing through your letterbox to make sure you ain't growing something you shouldn't be
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on April 11, 2016, 08:51:16 PM
Quote from: CH on April 11, 2016, 06:35:42 PM
When connecting make sure they are fully located to prevent short, also street lights will dim and guards will be sniffing through your letterbox to make sure you ain't growing something you shouldn't be
Did you mean earthed rather than located? If so how?

Shanna
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on April 11, 2016, 08:55:35 PM
Quote from: molc on April 11, 2016, 06:30:37 PM
Just arrived today and tried it out when I got home. They're a perfect fit but you'll need to box clever with the shroud as there's no thread left. Thinking a dab of superglue on the connecting lead will do it.

Even passed the wet test first time!
As I thought the ss nut consumed all of the thread on the element. Did you have to put anything between the nut & the outside of the kettle?

Shanna
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: molc on April 11, 2016, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: Shanna on April 11, 2016, 08:55:35 PM
Quote from: molc on April 11, 2016, 06:30:37 PM
Just arrived today and tried it out when I got home. They're a perfect fit but you'll need to box clever with the shroud as there's no thread left. Thinking a dab of superglue on the connecting lead will do it.

Even passed the wet test first time!
As I thought the ss nut consumed all of the thread on the element. Did you have to put anything between the nut & the outside of the kettle?

Shanna
Yeah it's a very big locknut. Nothing between them except ptfe tape to seal the threads. There's a silicon washer on the inside.
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on April 11, 2016, 11:06:25 PM
Quote from: molc on April 11, 2016, 08:57:41 PM
Quote from: Shanna on April 11, 2016, 08:55:35 PM
Quote from: molc on April 11, 2016, 06:30:37 PM
Just arrived today and tried it out when I got home. They're a perfect fit but you'll need to box clever with the shroud as there's no thread left. Thinking a dab of superglue on the connecting lead will do it.

Even passed the wet test first time!
As I thought the ss nut consumed all of the thread on the element. Did you have to put anything between the nut & the outside of the kettle?

Shanna
Yeah it's a very big locknut. Nothing between them except ptfe tape to seal the threads. There's a silicon washer on the inside.
Ah the magic of ptfe tape :) Will invest in them eventually but watching the price of sterling like a hawk. Its dropped 10p in nearly a month. If the current instability with the Brexit keeps going in a months time it will be near parity.

Shanna
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Motorbikeman on April 12, 2016, 07:06:58 PM
The PTFE tape would insulate the locknut from earthing the kettle surly. 

Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: molc on April 12, 2016, 07:22:42 PM
I was thinking about that, but you do cut through it  when threading the nut. The PTFE fills the cracks more than anything I find.

Regardless, the keg has a primary element which has a very solid metal to metal connection running to earth, so it is always grounded when running.
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on April 13, 2016, 08:10:41 AM
I earthed my keggle using banana plugs and sockets, I looped an earth connection from each of the kettle connectors to the Banana plugs. This works for keggles as you can connect the banana socket through the skirt
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,15387.0.html
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on April 13, 2016, 08:47:42 PM
Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on April 13, 2016, 08:10:41 AM
I earthed my keggle using banana plugs and sockets, I looped an earth connection from each of the kettle connectors to the Banana plugs. This works for keggles as you can connect the banana socket through the skirt
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,15387.0.html
In that post it looks like your splicing an earth connection off the earth from the wiring from the wiring of the element. Not sure how that would work where one is using a pee covered connector without having to cut through the preformed cabling to tap the earth.

Shanna
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: molc on April 13, 2016, 10:21:50 PM
Quote from: Shanna on April 13, 2016, 08:47:42 PMa pee covered connector
Shanna
I think we found the source of the infection in that batch before Christmas :D
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Motorbikeman on April 13, 2016, 10:34:18 PM
Apparently pee is sterile. 

Good to go
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: molc on April 14, 2016, 07:43:17 AM
Quote from: Motorbikeman on April 13, 2016, 10:34:18 PM
Apparently pee is sterile. 

Good to go
Who needs Starsan :)
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on April 14, 2016, 07:53:52 AM
Quote from: Shanna on April 13, 2016, 08:47:42 PM
Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on April 13, 2016, 08:10:41 AM
I earthed my keggle using banana plugs and sockets, I looped an earth connection from each of the kettle connectors to the Banana plugs. This works for keggles as you can connect the banana socket through the skirt
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,15387.0.html
In that post it looks like your splicing an earth connection off the earth from the wiring from the wiring of the element. Not sure how that would work where one is using a pee covered connector without having to cut through the preformed cabling to tap the earth.

Shanna
From memory they may be pre assembled but the connector can be opened by removing a screw in the front face of the connector. It may be a security/anti tamper screw which needs a special screw driver though.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on April 14, 2016, 07:13:27 PM
Quote from: Shanna on April 13, 2016, 08:47:42 PM
Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on April 13, 2016, 08:10:41 AM
I earthed my keggle using banana plugs and sockets, I looped an earth connection from each of the kettle connectors to the Banana plugs. This works for keggles as you can connect the banana socket through the skirt
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,15387.0.html
In that post it looks like your splicing an earth connection off the earth from the wiring from the wiring of the element. Not sure how that would work where one is using a pee covered connector without having to cut through the preformed cabling to tap the earth.

Shanna
Read pre instead of pee, bloody auto correct ;-)

Shanna
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: pob on April 14, 2016, 07:19:08 PM
Freudian slip there, ironically probably still a valid sentence though.

Wouldn't recommend using pee covered cables, could effect the pee-H of the wort.

I'll get my coat
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on April 15, 2016, 01:43:44 PM
Quote from: pob on April 14, 2016, 07:19:08 PM
Freudian slip there, ironically probably still a valid sentence though.

Wouldn't recommend using pee covered cables, could effect the pee-H of the wort.

I'll get my coat
Get up the yard with ye :)

Shanna
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Shanna on May 02, 2016, 08:00:34 PM
Quote from: CH on April 10, 2016, 07:05:27 PM
Quote from: Kevin O'Roundwood on April 04, 2016, 03:16:53 PM
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/BEARING-OPTIONS-KM-SERIES-STAINLESS-STEEL-LOCKNUTS-LOCK-WASHER-TYPE-/200845936093?var=500121950447&hash=item2ec359c5dd:m:mUUeVupwjns1MIYQMm0OpuQ

Here's the ones I got. Not cheap but the cheapest I could find and they seem to be top quality


Here's the reason to buy the expensive ones mentioned above

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160410/202a7664f4a9fc1b758f3e3d903c3754.jpg)
Looking at the link on ebay
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/BEARING-OPTIONS-KM-SERIES-STAINLESS-STEEL-LOCKNUTS-LOCK-WASHER-TYPE-/200845936093?var=500121950447&hash=item2ec359c5dd:m:mUUeVupwjns1MIYQMm0OpuQ

Would somebody who has purchased these nuts previously confirm that they will fit on an element with a diameter of approx 38mm diameter?  Which of these nuts would one buy for a 38mm heating element?

Shanna
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on May 02, 2016, 08:13:58 PM
Km8 are 40mm I've checked my element and it measures 38 on the part which is not threaded if that makes sense and the nuts fit perfectly
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160502/f92885888be106325deb0e2c9ee026f6.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Sorcerers Apprentice on May 02, 2016, 08:16:58 PM
So KM 8 is the size for kettle elements

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on May 02, 2016, 09:00:55 PM
post #8  ;D
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: giacomo on June 16, 2016, 03:24:24 PM
Hey guys

got two of these elements too, for my new kettle, but got the version with no connector from the UK...
Anyone has suggestions on where to source a connector/cable that fits them?
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on June 16, 2016, 03:47:55 PM
Quote from: giacomorizzo on June 16, 2016, 03:24:24 PM
Hey guys

got two of these elements too, for my new kettle, but got the version with no connector from the UK...
Anyone has suggestions on where to source a connector/cable that fits them?

Have you a pic?
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: giacomo on June 16, 2016, 03:58:51 PM
Not of mine, but it's one of those: http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/msxw9XaM1smi4ahK9CGzovQ.jpg
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on June 16, 2016, 04:01:34 PM
amazon or ebay
use high quality wire  capable of 16 amps if you can get it.
They are made of bakelite like the old brown light switches and may crack if you are rough with them and why with 4 elements I have a spare.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Spares2go-Round-Element-Connector-Kettle/dp/B00TFU8VT8/ref=sr_1_34?ie=UTF8&qid=1466089466&sr=8-34&keywords=kettle+connector

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SWAN-Catering-Kettle-Plug-Socket-Connector-Cable-Lead-13-Amp-Round-3-Pin-/191508394853?hash=item2c96ca3365:g:KHYAAOSw6EhUOAEE

Just as a reminder as I forgot I started this thread ;D I always check the connector is fully located onto the element before I turn on the juice.
On 90 min boils they get hot and I let them cool before pulling them off the element.

Probably done 6 brews and no problems since. I do like the look of the LWD ones though  ;D ;D, methinks it would interfere too much with whirlpool.
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Motorbikeman on June 16, 2016, 10:49:38 PM
Its also a good idea to bend the connectors in to make them tighter.   As well as a wee rub of emery paper to keep a good connection on both pins and plug..

My plugs started to arc one day.    Caught it before it did real damage.     
Title: Re: Important lesson learnt
Post by: Leann ull on June 17, 2016, 05:40:59 AM
Emery paper is a good idea but if you bend them you may snap the connection between the pin and and the element inside and then there will be  :'(