Had a Bass XXXX Mild recipe done up on BS to my own spec but unfortunately HBC does not have some of the stuff i am looking for but they have the Mild Ale Malt,HBW has the other bits but not the Mild Ale Malt.HBW does have Best Red X malt though and i will be using Dark LME in this brew so i figure with the Red X that would work ? Basically fermentables would be Red X Malt + Dark LME. :o
Yeast will be M79 Burton Union Ale Yeast. Below is a screenshot of the recipe as it stands atm but open to minor changes. ;D
Red X?!?! Nooooooo!
Quote from: Tom on January 17, 2016, 12:19:47 AM
Red X?!?! Nooooooo!
I had a funny feeling i was going to get that response lol ;D The recipe specifically calls for mild ale malt and i want to stick with that basically because i want to see what it is like as i intend brewing more milds and bitters going forward.However only HBC stock mild ale malt,but they don't have the dark LME i am after hence the conundrum(in my head anyway).
So Tom can you suggest a suitable sub for mild ale malt other than normal pale ale because i have loads of that but i don't want to use it on this brew. ;D
Forgot about the guys in Norn Iron,they have everything i need so crisis averted, aye surely. ;D
Lamberts did a couple of lovely beers with RedX
Yeah, but they have some kind of witchcraft going on down there. Red X for us Fuggles (non-wizard brewers) didn't live up to hype. For me.
I love mild ale malt. The English pale malts seem to be paler than the Irish, from what I've seen so far. No substitute for mild ale malt if you're making a mild. Lovely beer. Mild malt, some torrified wheat or barley, and a couple of percent chocolate malt. Ferment with anything British EXCEPT NOTTY!
Are you making a mild?
Quote from: Tom on January 17, 2016, 11:03:18 AM
Yeah, but they have some kind of witchcraft going on down there. Red X for us Fuggles (non-wizard brewers) didn't live up to hype. For me.
I love mild ale malt. The English pale malts seem to be paler than the Irish, from what I've seen so far. No substitute for mild ale malt if you're making a mild. Lovely beer. Mild malt, some torrified wheat or barley, and a couple of percent chocolate malt. Ferment with anything British EXCEPT NOTTY!
Are you making a mild?
Yes Tom i am making a Bass XXXX Mild, i have a recipe someone gave me from a GW book i think,and i have tweaked it while trying to still maintain the mild malt grain. 8)
I also have to figure out how to do a 40 litre batch on a 23 litre setup. ???
Parallel brew day. Two mashes, one done while the other is boiling. It only adds a little bit to a brew day by all accounts, though I've never needed enough beer to consider it.
Quote from: Tom on January 17, 2016, 11:03:18 AM
Yeah, but they have some kind of witchcraft going on down there. Red X for us Fuggles (non-wizard brewers) didn't live up to hype. For me.
I love mild ale malt. The English pale malts seem to be paler than the Irish, from what I've seen so far. No substitute for mild ale malt if you're making a mild. Lovely beer. Mild malt, some torrified wheat or barley, and a couple of percent chocolate malt. Ferment with anything British EXCEPT NOTTY!
Are you making a mild?
Whoh Tom! What's your beef with notty? Very attenuative, almost too much, I'll give ya.. But decent English flavour when you're dealing with higher OGs... No...? :)
Quote from: molc on January 17, 2016, 02:23:04 PM
Parallel brew day. Two mashes, one done while the other is boiling. It only adds a little bit to a brew day by all accounts, though I've never needed enough beer to consider it.
It's a double batch to be split between me and a m8,parallel sounds good but i would worry about lack of homoginization. ;D
Was worried you'd got hold of a Firkin there, looking to do a 40 litre batch!
My beef with Notty is, as you mention, its excellent attenuation. I made a beautiful mild ale wort that was ruined by Notty. Stripped it bare! I have the GW book (though I don't know which edition), and I regularly do a mild or a bitter out of them. Always nice beers, but always a little samey. They are all excellent versions of English bitters or milds, like the ones you'd get in a classic boozer, but then it makes you realise just how dull a standard bitter can be (and I really like English bitters). I think some interesting White Labs wet yeasts or the MJs are in order to add a little variety from the usual S04 or Notty (if that's what you do). I saw a good review of the Muntons standard yeast there recently, as well.
Anyway, off topic, really sorry! I'm just bitchin' about your ingredients here.
Quote from: Tom on January 17, 2016, 11:20:38 PM
Was worried you'd got hold of a Firkin there, looking to do a 40 litre batch!
My beef with Notty is, as you mention, its excellent attenuation. I made a beautiful mild ale wort that was ruined by Notty. Stripped it bare! I have the GW book (though I don't know which edition), and I regularly do a mild or a bitter out of them. Always nice beers, but always a little samey. They are all excellent versions of English bitters or milds, like the ones you'd get in a classic boozer, but then it makes you realise just how dull a standard bitter can be (and I really like English bitters). I think some interesting White Labs wet yeasts or the MJs are in order to add a little variety from the usual S04 or Notty (if that's what you do). I saw a good review of the Muntons standard yeast there recently, as well.
Anyway, off topic, really sorry! I'm just bitchin' about your ingredients here.
No such look on the Firkin :D
I have done a double batch of another Mild recipe last year(recipe is up here somewhere) , i used Mangrove Jacks Burton Union Ale Yeast M79 on half which i gave to my friend and he loved it,my half didn't turn out so good as i used reclaimed Belfast Ale yeast(never again). This time however i am sticking with the M79(two packs) and will be brewing the 40 litres together for splitting at bottling stage. ;D
I will stick up the original and revised final recipe soon as i get it done. ;D
Quote from: Tom on January 17, 2016, 11:20:38 PMMy beef with Notty is, as you mention, its excellent attenuation. I made a beautiful mild ale wort that was ruined by Notty. Stripped it bare! I have the GW book (though I don't know which edition), and I regularly do a mild or a bitter out of them. Always nice beers, but always a little samey. They are all excellent versions of English bitters or milds, like the ones you'd get in a classic boozer, but then it makes you realise just how dull a standard bitter can be (and I really like English bitters). I think some interesting White Labs wet yeasts or the MJs are in order to add a little variety from the usual S04 or Notty (if that's what you do). I saw a good review of the Muntons standard yeast there recently, as well.
Aye, it's a bad choice for a mild alright. It's a pretty aggressive yeast, almost as aggressive as Cal Ale. WLP007 is often reported to be its liquid equivalent, and I've had many similar experiences with that too. You have to be careful about which beers you use it in - I find it good in big stouts, dry pale ales/IPAs etc. Great flocculator too, and very easy to deal with. Probably why several Irish micros use it - I understand Metalman and O'Haras both use Notty for a lot of their beers.
Don't get me started on Wheeler's book! :-X
(Greg, sorry for dragging OT! It's an interesting side discussion though.)
Quote from: Bubbles on January 18, 2016, 09:59:47 AM
Quote from: Tom on January 17, 2016, 11:20:38 PMMy beef with Notty is, as you mention, its excellent attenuation. I made a beautiful mild ale wort that was ruined by Notty. Stripped it bare!
Aye, it's a bad choice for a mild alright. It's a pretty aggressive yeast, almost as aggressive as Cal Ale.
I find Cal ale has heaps of character. Ferments out really clean, slightly fruity, while keeping the malt character. I'm a massive fan actually.
Well, for me, this statement
Quote from: molc on January 18, 2016, 10:09:10 AM
I find Cal ale has heaps of character
would contradict the following:
Quote from: molc on January 18, 2016, 10:09:10 AM
Ferments out really clean
But no point in discussing semantics.. :)
Its "cleanness" is also what I like about it. It doesn't get in the way of malt and hop flavours. It is slightly fruity, but that's ale yeast for you. Try fermenting it on the cold side if you want to reduce or even eliminate those esters. Sierra Nevada make lagers with the Cal ale strain! All dependent on temperature.
Notty definitely has its place, but you can't beat the MJs for variety of dried yeasts. I've really enjoyed using them.
So, um... Graham Wheeler. What did he do to you?
And Greg, why dark malt extract? Just to colour or something else? (I know little about extracts).
Keep the side discussion on yeast going guys i find it very informative and interrsting. :)
Tom the dark extract was to take place of the speciality grains the recipe called for. In a little bit i will post up the original recipe and the revised version i am thinking of doing to make things clearer. :)
Quote from: Bubbles on January 18, 2016, 10:54:14 AM
Well, for me, this statement Quote from: molc on January 18, 2016, 10:09:10 AM
I find Cal ale has heaps of character
would contradict the following:
Quote from: molc on January 18, 2016, 10:09:10 AM
Ferments out really clean
But no point in discussing semantics.. :)
No your technically correct, the best kind of correct. :) I sometimes find some of the "clean" fermenters, while not producing many esters, also seem to strip out all the malt flavours and just leave you with something a little lifeless. Cal ale on the other hand brings the malt character to the fore, at least in my mind.
I normally do it around 17C, as I actually really like it's ester profile, though recently been reading of people going at 10C for 3-4 days, then ramping upto 21C to finish off, basically like a lager.
I'll have a fresh bottle with me at the next meet which I only kegged 2 weeks ago.
Quote from: Tom on January 18, 2016, 11:04:46 AM
So, um... Graham Wheeler. What did he do to you?
Well, he did nothing to me personally.. :)
But.. I don't like the way that book deals with the whole subject of yeast. The recipes make no mention of yeast at all, whereas any decent home brewer knows that yeast strain is one of the most important decisions you make in order to produce a worthy clone. Especially a clone of a English bitter.. He's also scornful of just about anything American, including US liquid yeast cultures which he claims are shipped and stored under less than ideal conditions. This is just a silly assumption, and contrary to the experiences of countless home brewers outside of the US who successfully use these products.
He also freely admits to not having tested all of the recipes in his own book, which totally blew my mind. ???
Quote from: molc on January 18, 2016, 11:55:55 AM
I normally do it around 17C, as I actually really like it's ester profile, though recently been reading of people going at 10C for 3-4 days, then ramping upto 21C to finish off, basically like a lager.
I'll have a fresh bottle with me at the next meet which I only kegged 2 weeks ago.
Great. I'll bring along a cream ale which I fermented with WLP001. It's got little in the way of hops and is a good example of what you said about letting the malt shine.
Wading in here :)gonna make the case for Windsor yeast. Has loads of character and brings flavour especially to porters and milds. It starts off fermentation great but stops high and that can be too high making it too sweet so following a discussion with others around the world ;) I was told that the way to get the best from Windsor is to pitch it and 48 hours later pitch Nottingham. That's apparently what the yeast producer recommends to the commercial brewers that use it.
I think he has Jim's Beer Kit as his beta testers, to be honest! I agree with you on his lack of info on yeast. If I want to do a brew from the book now I would tend to google the brewery, see if there's any info on the yeast used (if it's a ringwood or Timothy Taylor, Fullers etc, there is the correct yeast knocking about in Whitelabs somewhere), or if it's a more obscure brewery I'd use a yeast appropriate to the area. Make a note of it in the book.
QuoteWell, he did nothing to me personally..
I heard he called your beer watery and tasteless, so... :P
I think we have to remember when that GW books were written also,probably 80's-90's ? Very old school thinking, i have one of his books here also(Home Brewing) and it does leave a lot of figuring out as it makes no mention of yeast in any of the recipes,tbh if i didn't have a little experience in home brewing myself i would be pretty lost just trying to go from that book. ;D
That said coming at the book from the point of a home brewer with some previous experience i do find it useful as a rudimentary recipe guide to build from,i do find it very old school mentality in it's approach to recipe formulation but still a useful tool to put your own spin to. ;D
Newb question but Windsor yeast ? ??? ??? ???
I have used Notty in the past and i quite like it for English style ales,it takes off and flocculates like a sob but on lighter beers it will strip almost all flavour from the malt profile,at least in my experience. :D
PS: The one thing i have to give Home Brewing by GW credit for is it has loads of English style ale and beer recipes,i hate to use the term but "real ale" recipes,milds/bitters/stouts/porters etc done with the malts in mind, recipes that are getting pushed into oblivion in favour of American "lets put 5 pounds of hops in this" style beers. :P
Got a GW book and was very disappointed. The recipes give no more detail than crystal, rather than the srm values. There's a world of difference between crystal 40 and 120. Same with each hop addition.
There's a lot to be said for empowering you to explore and create your own recipe, but Gordon Stong does this a lot better, with good base recipes the give alternatives and tips for making it your own.
Quote from: molc on January 18, 2016, 01:14:10 PM
Got a GW book and was very disappointed. The recipes give no more detail than crystal, rather than the srm values. There's a world of difference between crystal 40 and 120. Same with each hop addition.
There's a lot to be said for empowering you to explore and create your own recipe, but Gordon Stong does this a lot better, with good base recipes the give alternatives and tips for making it your own.
Good point,aside from the lack of yeast info this would be my biggest peeve with Home Brewing,like when he mentions crystal it would be handy to know which one he meant.Again i think this is due to the way the books were written ie. old school almost kit and kilo of table sugar mentality,probably back when he was writing them there were not so many different malt variables also. ;D
Crystal malts: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=54623 (http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=54623)
If you know roughly the colour of the beer, or have tasted it (or have accurate tasting notes from the Almanac), then you could guess at which crystal to use. I've notes here on Old Thumper. WLP005 is Ringwood, and the brewery is remarkably close to Warminster Maltings, so I'd imagine the malts used come from up the road.
But yes, good book, could do with more information. I mean, since most of the recipes are variations on 90% pale, 5 - 10 % crystal and perhaps an adjunct, there's not really a lot to tell each beer apart. Like you say, Molc, a good springboard for doing your own thing. The Gordon Strong book is excellent, but I've yet to make a beer from it!
Quote from: DEMPSEY on January 18, 2016, 12:14:04 PM
Wading in here :)gonna make the case for Windsor yeast. Has loads of character and brings flavour especially to porters and milds. It starts off fermentation great but stops high and that can be too high making it too sweet so following a discussion with others around the world ;) I was told that the way to get the best from Windsor is to pitch it and 48 hours later pitch Nottingham. That's apparently what the yeast producer recommends to the commercial brewers that use it.
I've heard the Windsor has a nice flavour alright, but the big problem with this strategy is the cost. 4 quid a throw for those sachets - I'd be more inclined to pick up a vial of Whitelabs tbh. Reusing the yeast cake is also problematic, as you don't have your pure single strain anymore.
Quote from: Tom on January 18, 2016, 12:21:08 PMMake a note of it in the book.
Yep, that's my main problem with that book. For the price of admission, I'd expect him to have done that simple research for me already. At the risk of repeating myself, there's few beer styles that rely on the nuances of the yeast strain
more than English bitter. Yet Graham glosses over it entirely and tells his readers to use whatever sachet of dried yeast they have to hand. Doesn't make sense.
Quote from: Tom on January 18, 2016, 12:21:08 PM
I heard he called your beer watery and tasteless, so... :P
And I still haven't forgiven him for that.. 8)
Quote from: Greg2013 on January 18, 2016, 01:08:31 PM
I think we have to remember when that GW books were written also,probably 80's-90's ? Very old school thinking
Well, I think the specific book we're talking about here is "Brew your own British Real Ale", which is in its 3rd edition and is fully up to date with modern methods and ingredients.
Quote from: Tom on January 18, 2016, 01:32:27 PM
Crystal malts: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=54623 (http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=54623)
If you know roughly the colour of the beer, or have tasted it (or have accurate tasting notes from the Almanac), then you could guess at which crystal to use. I've notes here on Old Thumper. WLP005 is Ringwood, and the brewery is remarkably close to Warminster Maltings, so I'd imagine the malts used come from up the road.
But yes, good book, could do with more information. I mean, since most of the recipes are variations on 90% pale, 5 - 10 % crystal and perhaps an adjunct, there's not really a lot to tell each beer apart. Like you say, Molc, a good springboard for doing your own thing. The Gordon Strong book is excellent, but I've yet to make a beer from it!
While i might berate the simplicity of the Home Brewing book it is also the reason i quite like it,if i can picture the beer in my mind i reckon i can make a pretty good guess as to what srm crystal to use etc,or what i have done in past is take a recipe from the GW book and reference Greg Hughes book for a similar beer style recipe and go from that. ;D
Quote from: Bubbles on January 18, 2016, 01:50:43 PM
Quote from: Greg2013 on January 18, 2016, 01:08:31 PM
I think we have to remember when that GW books were written also,probably 80's-90's ? Very old school thinking
Well, I think the specific book we're talking about here is "Brew your own British Real Ale", which is in its 3rd edition and is fully up to date with modern methods and ingredients.
Haven't seen that one yet but fair point. ;D
Actually I was told that the company sells 500 gr packs of blended yeast to brewery's