National Homebrew Club Ireland

This is a brilliant article regarding trub making its way across your processes. Some surprising results.

http://brulosophy.com/2014/06/02/the-great-trub-exbeeriment-results-are-in/

Interesting stuff

I got sick of avoiding the trub and now just feck it all into the FV and I've not noticed any adverse results.
The brewday is long enough without worrying about break making it in.

I've always added everything into my fermentor, whirlpools take too long!

This and not bothering with a secondary (unless aging for months) are two habits I gave up a while back

The same author carried out a follow-up to that trial, attempting to account for appearance and clarity as variables. Worth a look  ;)

http://brulosophy.com/2015/03/22/the-impact-of-kettle-trub-part-2-exbeeriment-results/ (http://brulosophy.com/2015/03/22/the-impact-of-kettle-trub-part-2-exbeeriment-results/)

My own approach is to keep whatever kettle trub I can out of the FV, especially if there were a lot of hop additions in the kettle.

my hops are confined to a bag anyway, so any extras that make it in are from the grain

Quote from: LordEoin on January 29, 2016, 02:27:22 PM
my hops are confined to a bag anyway, so any extras that make it in are from the grain

+1

Yeah same here, I have no finger prints anymore from roasting hot hops bag.

I use pellets only. I whirlpool and rest before draining. I get a bit in but have never had any problem with clarity of wort or the final product.
For me time is the key. Letting the cooled boil sit and drop before transfer and proper conditioning in 2nd for me are key.

I strain it all back through the mash bag. Figure it'll all drop out towards the end of the ferment anyway.

I keep ended up at this guys site when researching stuff. I forgot to put a whirlfloc tablet into one of my competition entries this year. According to this it should be grand: http://brulosophy.com/2015/03/16/the-irish-moss-effect-exbeeriment-results/#more-3115

The more and more I read this guys site the more it's starting to sound like a horoscope. I know he is the mythbusters of the Homebrew world but I yet to see any conclusive debunking of the myths he investigates. I suppose at least he is trying.

Maybe we should conduct our own anybody have any myths or Homebrew practices that they would like to see debunked?

The great oxygenation debate for example?
Dry v's Liquid etc?
Whirlpool v hop bag?

If we got 4 or 5 Brewers to do the same process and at least then there would be an element of scale which should all give the same or similar answers

I haven't used whirlfloc in a long time. Long boil and a rest after chilling works for me.

I have done a pilsner recently which I wanted clear. I used whirlfloc, racked to secondary, crash cooled and added gelatine... .it still has a haze 😨

3 months conditioning at 5 degrees?

Quote from: CH on January 30, 2016, 10:18:29 AM
The more and more I read this guys site the more it's starting to sound like a horoscope. I know he is the mythbusters of the Homebrew world but I yet to see any conclusive debunking of the myths he investigates. I suppose at least he is trying.

Maybe we should conduct our own anybody have any myths or Homebrew practices that they would like to see debunked?

The great oxygenation debate for example?
Dry v's Liquid etc?
Whirlpool v hop bag?

If we got 4 or 5 Brewers to do the same process and at least then there would be an element of scale which should all give the same or similar answers

My last few beers I've been oxygenating the s##t out of them. haha

I use my boil kettle as hlt and boil so i catch my 1st and 2nd runnings in buckets and just let it splash in from the mash tun. So far no adverse effects. I just moved a Barley wine to secondary last weekend so it'll be interesting to see if that develops any stale taste over the coming months/years in bottles.

Getting oxygen from mash tun is not a problem as you boil a lot of it off.
its sloshing around in transfer from primary to keg or bottles than causes problems and cardboard flavours.
Here's the mashtun in Delerium, hot side aeration my arse ;)
https://vimeo.com/153611018 (https://vimeo.com/153611018)

Jesus nothing as intense as that video! :P  I'm generally far more careful when doing transfers etc.

Quote from: CH on January 30, 2016, 02:39:50 PM
3 months conditioning at 5 degrees?

Actually it's only about that now

Quote from: auralabuse on January 30, 2016, 06:19:50 PM

Quote from: CH on January 30, 2016, 02:39:50 PM
3 months conditioning at 5 degrees?

Actually it's only about that now

And at 2 degrees

Quote from: CH on January 30, 2016, 10:18:29 AM
The more and more I read this guys site the more it's starting to sound like a horoscope. I know he is the mythbusters of the Homebrew world but I yet to see any conclusive debunking of the myths he investigates. I suppose at least he is trying.

Maybe we should conduct our own anybody have any myths or Homebrew practices that they would like to see debunked?

The great oxygenation debate for example?
Dry v's Liquid etc?
Whirlpool v hop bag?

If we got 4 or 5 Brewers to do the same process and at least then there would be an element of scale which should all give the same or similar answers

Could be worth a thread - Brewing techniques and questions tested.

The issue that I'd have with his experiments are the credibility of his test panel. Despite what everyone wants to think about themselves, not everyone has the taste sensitivity to be a member of a taste panel. Many are called few are chosen. It also involves a serious amount of training and testing and calibration of testers, because they are basically part of the brewing instrumentation and accordingly need to be calibrated and retrained regularly. So for him to assume by randomly selecting from a group of his mates and then publishing the results as fact is an enormous leap of faith.
That having been said, this is a hobby and people can take all sorts of shortcuts to shorten their day and if they or their family and friends don't notice the difference, then what's the problem?
In a professional world you can't be as easy going, there is brand reputation, sometimes built up over hundreds of years, and just because you don't notice a difference yourself doesn't mean that for example a beer blogger or some of your clients/fans won't. There have been lots of examples of recipe changes having disastrous effects on brand integrity down the years eg Coke Cola and more recently Mc Vities Digestives
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119996/The-great-British-Digestive-disaster-Dunkers-revolt-low-fat-recipe-change-thats-left-biscuits-brittle-tasty.html

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on February 04, 2016, 02:39:06 PM
In a professional world you can't be as easy going, there is brand reputation, sometimes built up over hundreds of years, and just because you don't notice a difference yourself doesn't mean that for example a beer blogger or some of your clients/fans won't.

Interesting & costly example of what & why it's so important:

From The New Sotheby's Wine Encyclopedia, Tom Stevenson on a latent quality issue with top winery, MARQUÉS DE RISCAL

"When the first edition of this book came out, Riscal's Swiss importer faxed Francisco Hurtado de Amexaga a copy of this page claiming "the red wines from Rioja's most famous bodega have an unpleasant musty mushroom character," upon receipt of which Hurtado de Amexaga recalled his top winemaker from Riscal's Rueda outpost to investigate.

These wines had gradually acquired a musty character since the 1960s, prior to which they were always among the top three Riojas produced, but since they had the oldest and greatest reputation in Rioja, no one had dared mention this until this book was published in 1988. Every one of Riscal's 20,000 barrels was tasted and 2,000 were immediately destroyed, with the equivalent of 600,000 bottles of wine poured away. Another 2,000 borderline barrels were earmarked for replacement the next year and a program instigated to renew all 20,000 over 10 years.

In turning around the situation so quickly and with no expense spared, Hurtado de Amexaga ensured that Riscal would regain its position among the world's finest wines."

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on February 04, 2016, 02:39:06 PM
The issue that I'd have with his experiments are the credibility of his test panel. Despite what everyone wants to think about themselves, not everyone has the taste sensitivity to be a member of a taste panel. Many are called few are chosen. It also involves a serious amount of training and testing and calibration of testers, because they are basically part of the brewing instrumentation and accordingly need to be calibrated and retrained regularly. So for him to assume by randomly selecting from a group of his mates and then publishing the results as fact is an enormous leap of faith.
That having been said, this is a hobby and people can take all sorts of shortcuts to shorten their day and if they or their family and friends don't notice the difference, then what's the problem?
In a professional world you can't be as easy going, there is brand reputation, sometimes built up over hundreds of years, and just because you don't notice a difference yourself doesn't mean that for example a beer blogger or some of your clients/fans won't. There have been lots of examples of recipe changes having disastrous effects on brand integrity down the years eg Coke Cola and more recently Mc Vities Digestives
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2119996/The-great-British-Digestive-disaster-Dunkers-revolt-low-fat-recipe-change-thats-left-biscuits-brittle-tasty.html

He actually addresses part of that concern in this article.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/01/21/investigating-the-bad-palates-argument-a-graphical-look-at-xbmt-performance-based-on-experience-level/