National Homebrew Club Ireland

As the heading states, I have been looking to upgrade to a 30 litre ss conical fermenter but the prices are crazy. Has anyone picked one up at a reasonable price from anywhere?

Malt Miller or Homebrew builder are your best bet
let me know how you get on I'm in the market for 1 as well.

Quote from: CH on February 24, 2016, 11:52:06 AM
Malt Miller or Homebrew builder are your best bet
let me know how you get on I'm in the market for 1 as well.

How much shiny stuff do you have now??  ;)

The exchange rate has made the SS Brewtech conicals less affordable from Malt Miller but they're still decent value when compared to the other options. If I were you I'd strongly consider a 14 gallon conical. The smaller SS Brewtech conicals only take 26 litres.   

Quote from: Dr Jacoby on February 24, 2016, 01:38:50 PM
The exchange rate has made the SS Brewtech conicals less affordable from Malt Miller but they're still decent value when compared to the other options. If I were you I'd strongly consider a 14 gallon conical. The smaller SS Brewtech conicals only take 26 litres.

What is the compelling reason(s) for upgrading to a conical? Do they really make life that much easier?

In a commercial environment, where you have jacketed conical fermenters, I understand that it's beneficial to be able to dump yeast before cold crashing and filtration. But on a home brew level, what does a €1K steel conical give you that racking to a secondary bucket/carboy doesn't?

I use the fast ferment conical and find it great. everything drops clear and no oxygen pickup. Dry hop with pellets as well.

Quote from: nigel_c on February 24, 2016, 02:07:54 PMDry hop with pellets as well.

This.

That's a good reason for me to get one. I'd rather dry hop with pellets, and I'd rather go "bareback" (no hop bags).

I dry hop with loose pellets. Fine with Gelatin and drop them all out for the last 3 days, then siphon off the beer and leave the trub. One issue is you can't repitch that yeast though, since it's covered in hop matter. There has been talk that it strips the aroma when you gelatin a dry hop, but I don't notice it myself.

I like shiny SS, but I still can't bring myself to spend that much on a fermenter, especially when the PET bottles gives all the advantages of carboys but are light and easy to clean.

Quote from: Bubbles on February 24, 2016, 02:04:31 PMWhat is the compelling reason(s) for upgrading to a conical? Do they really make life that much easier?

In a commercial environment, where you have jacketed conical fermenters, I understand that it's beneficial to be able to dump yeast before cold crashing and filtration. But on a home brew level, what does a €1K steel conical give you that racking to a secondary bucket/carboy doesn't?

It's an interesting issue. I wouldn't say that there are any compelling reasons, but there are some advantages (I don't own a conical by the way but I have borrowed one and brewed maybe 5 or 6 beers in it):

First, it allows for oxygen free transfers. This includes taking samples without having to lift a lid etc. and racking the beer away using low pressure transfers. Taking samples is a joy.

Second, harvesting yeast from the bottom port is quite straightforward (though not as easy as some people claim - yeast and crud can sometimes form a block that is difficult to drain or push out).

Third, they're very easy to clean and maintain.

Fourth, I like using them for dry hopping. You can just throw the hops directly in without a bag and wait for them to settle so they can be dumped from the bottom port. You can also hook the bottom port up to a gas line to bubble the hops back into solution.


There are also some disadvantages:

First, they are expensive - but not 1K expensive!

Second, they are a little unwieldy in terms of moving them around.

Third, you'll need a fridge big enough to contain them if you want proper temp control. There are other temp control options but they can be expensive.

Fourth, you will need to buy a few bits and pieces for transfers etc. that fit the outlets.

   

Quote from: molc on February 24, 2016, 02:35:01 PM
One issue is you can't repitch that yeast though, since it's covered in hop matter.

I might be misunderstanding you but can't you just rinse the yeast?

Quote from: Dr Jacoby on February 24, 2016, 02:37:30 PM

Quote from: molc on February 24, 2016, 02:35:01 PM
One issue is you can't repitch that yeast though, since it's covered in hop matter.

I might be misunderstanding you but can't you just rinse the yeast?

In the back of my head, there is more chance of the yeast mutating due to the high hopping rate, but maybe that only applies to the active fermentation? Also, wouldn't you get more hop flavour carryover, even after rinsing?

Still working on the my goto method for yeast reuse, so feel free to enlighten me. Upto now, I've just been overbuilding starters to have a clean sample each time, but since starting lagers, I'm experimenting with reusing the slurry. If I'm repitching, I just use the slurry and don't rinse it with any water.

Over building starters is my favourite way to do it too. But when I was using the conical I did harvest yeast for a series of lagers I did.

I found it difficult to get the yeast out while the beer was still in the conical (primary fermentation is longer for lagers and the temps are colder so the yeast had packed fairly tightly). What I did was transfer the beer out into cornies for lagering and then I put the lid back on the conical and did a pressure transfer to force the yeast out the bottom port. I then had to wash it with some cooled boiled water and decant away from the crud. It was fairly easy and I got a shed load of yeast from it (which came in especially handy for a bock I did).   

[quote ]
The exchange rate has made the SS Brewtech conicals less affordable from Malt Miller but they're still decent value when compared to the other options. If I were you I'd strongly consider a 14 gallon conical. The smaller SS Brewtech conicals only take 26 litres.
[/quote]

The exchange rate is the best it has been in an awful long time €1=79p

That's exactly the kind of information my wife hopes I never find out

The best I have seen in terms of price is about 200 for a 26l brewtech but stock levels are shit in Europe so you could be hit for customs. 26l is ok for me as I like to end up with about 20l batches.

Bought 10 gallon conical few years back from MyBeer&Wine.
It came at great price of €very very few hundred.
It's great piece of equipment for oxygen free beer transfer, taking samples, collecting yeast from the bottom valve and force carbing even (thats correct force carbonation).
Getting yeast out from the bottom valve is not a prob with some co2 over 1bar pressure.
In general it is good fun as long as it comes at the right price :)
But cleaning two of those two piece valve.. pita!

Lovely Alex, they are 400 quid on mybeerandwine. Good price for what ya get but I don't have that spare change lying around

Ok is malt miler the best value for money option?

What about mr lard https://www.brewbuilder.co.uk/7gal-std-conical-fermenter.html

332euro+freight

Not the best choice of name.....STD fermenter 😱

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=141910262752&alt=web

Problem with above is customs

Not a fan of the buckets to be honest, birthday coming in March gonna give Mr Lard a shout, anybody else interested send me a pm

Came across these on Done Deal, may be configured for purpose
https://www.donedeal.ie/feedingequipment-for-sale/300-litre-stainless-bulk-tanks-on-wheels/11515771

The one from brewbuilder is fine fermenter but lid wouldn't stand much pressure or enough for racking. With small bottom valve expect fun trying to get yeast out not mentioning force carbing.

I like the look of the Brew Bucket Mini, but stock seems to be an option.

I'm gonna do a bit more research Alex as there are 2 valves a dump and a beer I'm sure you can pressurise as well

Galway bay got two of the 14gallon ones from Mr lard, I remember seeing a photo on Twitter.

Ah here I'm a lazy sod and don't like cleaning ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=155&v=1rp2Yeywcio

Jaysus the cleaning of the cronical would be nearly as long as the brewday  :o

Ah screw that! I soak my carboy in W5, come back a few days later and rince. I don't care how shiny it is!

This might be the answer http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=245722

Not conical though :(

I did that last year with Cider, 40kgs plus keg weight is heavy

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160227/e6a31eec48a2f73bd5b8c7616d64ff5d.jpg)

Weight is one of the reasons why you should be able to transfer beer under co2 pressure  :-\

CH, that clear panel, is it how you access to the keg? Do you recommend using it as a fermenter?

I've an old heino keg that I've been keeping for just the right project...bbq, smoker..etc etc maybe a stainless conical is the answer.

Circular plastic acrylic disc sitting on silicone tubing that has been glued down with silicone

Quote from: CH on February 28, 2016, 02:06:12 AM
Circular plastic acrylic disc sitting on silicone tubing that has been glued down with silicone

Why bother cutting the top off? I use one with very large bung rammed into the spear at the top of the keg in to which I fit the bubbler. Granted it's harder to clean but a two day soak in caustic & hot water does the trick.Granted it consumes a lot of water but it works well. Only thing is that 50 litres is too big for most people's beer batch (I use this for the group buy cider). I am always on the lookout for a 30 litre keg.

Shanna

I cut the top off for easy access to clean having seen some of the crap in older kegs and to watch  the state of fermentation.

Quote from: CH on February 28, 2016, 09:51:11 AM
I cut the top off for easy access to clean having seen some of the crap in older kegs and to watch  the state of fermentation.

Definitely see the benefit for cleaning alright as you also can be sure there is nothing lurking. Granted caustic is also pretty aggressive for frequent use not to mention pricier. Are using bungy chords to hold that plastic lid on? I wonder how easy it would be to cut a corny lid sized hole & fit a corny lid with a bubbler.

Shanna

I tried that on a few kegs the rim on the top of the keg wasn't conducive to putting on one of the lids which is a pity as I have a few of them

This arrived today from Homebrew Builder

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160321/01aa159986cd053ac36aadf100231700.jpg)

He is laser etching his own logo on them

Build quality is good and robust and I like the handles on the side and the snap fit clips for the lid
The thermowell and double holed silicone bung are my own

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160321/4aa3aa9287b8a19ee94d8d483dd09784.jpg)

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160321/80249f470c57b5081553ec1cb187d660.jpg)

Nice big open one inch dump valve and I went for an optional cam and groove to allow me pump straight in from boiler

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160321/2ad3469f5c7d23e9832bad0d7daa4b3c.jpg)

And fits like a glove into my fermenting larder fridge

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160321/5a484e78044f1b54b1f55e37199f168d.jpg)


Only downside is I don't like fecky triclamps but I'm sure I'll get used to them

Not jealous at all...

:|

A lovely bit of Brew Porn to see me through the afternoon! Drool!!

I knew this forum was full of doirty old men in trench coats

What pressure is that conical rated to take John? Do you transfer under pressure or just use gravity?

Which size did you get and are those prices inc Vat?

Are you thinking pushing or fermenting?

I don't believe it's officially rated to anything but I am tempted to put a gas line on and let her blow.

There is a whole different technology in fermenting under pressure like the big boys  and I dabbled with mixed results using Corneys and pressure thumbscrew valves with gauges, it didn't bring enough to the table for me to consider changing.

All those 6 clamps on the top snap down like something engineered from the old USSR and not something you want to get your finger trapped in, I'm sure I'd get 10psi into her to push out into a corny no problem, even though in my case gravity feed is just about achievable.

I'll give it a go at the weekend and let you know

They are all published on his site Will, plus his delivery cost to Ireland of 15 as he uses dpd
https://www.brewbuilder.co.uk/7gal-std-conical-fermenter.html
I went for the 7 gallon one which has a working volume of 31l more than enough even if I am brewing lively monsters.
I won't be throwing my glassware away anytime soon as picture tells a thousand words just thought it'd be nice to try one out.
All I need now is a drone sub to relay pictures  from the inside

http://youtu.be/VcMwNSiQ8Jk

Quote from: CH on March 21, 2016, 08:43:43 PM
Are you thinking pushing or fermenting?

I don't believe it's officially rated to anything but I am tempted to put a gas line on and let her blow.

There is a whole different technology in fermenting under pressure like the big boys  and I dabbled with mixed results using Corneys and pressure thumbscrew valves with gauges, it didn't bring enough to the table for me to consider changing.

All those 6 clamps on the top snap down like something engineered from the old USSR and not something you want to get your finger trapped in, I'm sure I'd get 10psi into her to push out into a corny no problem, even though in my case gravity feed is just about achievable.

I'll give it a go at the weekend and let you know

Cool, cheers. I guess I'm most interested in comparing the results to the SS Brewtech conicals. They can handle about 3 or 4 psi before the lid starts to hiss under the pressure. You only need about 1.5 to 2psi to push the beer out in my experience.

I don't know of any homebrew conicals designed for fermentation under pressure. That's another ball game altogether. I've done it with cornies myself too using a bleeder valve. Can't say the beer was much better than batches I've brewed using my normal set up

Will set up a pressure rig and post pics

I put a bung in with a co2 line it went up to 0.5bar consistently before it started to leak through the silicone gasket on the top, enough to push out for transfer but not enough for fermenting under pressure. I guess I could of improved that with keg lube.

Sounds about right. Cornies seem like the only real option for fermenting under pressure at the mo. Cheers for getting back

Anyone remember these,

You were telling me about those at the nationals I think. Would love to give one a go

Just out of interest, what does fermentation under pressure achieve?

Quote from: auralabuse on March 29, 2016, 09:20:24 PM
Just out of interest, what does fermentation under pressure achieve?

Not enough at our level with pilsner for me in any case unless you are doing 2KL

Quote from: auralabuse on March 29, 2016, 09:20:24 PM
Just out of interest, what does fermentation under pressure achieve?

Some info here: http://brulosophy.com/2015/04/27/under-pressure-the-impact-of-higher-psi-fermentations-exbeeriment-results-2/

Bullet points taken from above article:
– The ability to ferment beer at warmer temps without increasing off flavors.
– Overall reduction in yeast ester and fusel production.
– Less vigorous fermentation with reduced krausen, meaning less headspace is necessary.
– Due to the closed fermentation, aroma compounds remain in the beer and aren't blown off.
– CO2 generated from fermentation can be used to naturally carbonate the finished beer.

Might try it though on a split batch, half pressured, half not. Would be very interested in the results

Quote from: DEMPSEY on March 29, 2016, 05:21:27 PM
Anyone remember these,

thats just wrong Dempsey just wrong!

Quote from: auralabuse on March 29, 2016, 09:27:52 PM
Might try it though on a split batch, half pressured, half not. Would be very interested in the results

I'm all about trying something for yourself, if I ever suffered from those issues I probably would have done more, maybe containment of aroma hops could be an interesting thing to messing with but nothing dry hopping couldn't sort.

Very true, when I started all grain not too long ago I suffered fusel problems but it was down to poor fermentation temperature control. Either way, it's all for scientific research 😝

So I've done a 3 month Pilsner in one now.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160815/548e70ad191c49e0d63c13dfe71c7bb3.jpg)

Massive advantages conicals have is the ability to take a sample without tubing and drain slurry and trub off the beer. I can see why folks would use them to harvest.
I over filled to start with 30 odd litres and so when I open valves I really crank them open to bring it all out quickly before I take a sample which could b 250ml. I'm probably down to 27l now

My only issue now is finding €300 for another one

What height is the conical that fits in the fridge ? I'd love to get a 50l one that'd fit in my fermentation controller...

Just ask him by email allow a few days for a response, they have a 63l version
https://www.brewbuilder.co.uk/14gal-std-conical-fermenter.html
I know its fits in a larder fridge you would just need bloody good support for the base

I think thats a brilliant idea and only 40 bucks.

You can even get a neoprene sleeve for it.  ;D

I'd like to see the dimensions on it. It might just if in my fridge with the Fastferment. Be great for little experimental beers.