I was out the weekend for a friends birthday. I was in a pub that is known for pretty average Guinness but it was worse than ever. It has to be one of most inconsistent commercial beverages available.
This got me thinking what causes it to be so inconsistent. Some people say it's the distance from the keg to the tap, but one of the best places I know for Guinness has their kegs at least 20 yards away. So is this a complete myth? Is it down to the cleanliness of the lines?
There's a few reasons often cited;
Distance from line
How busy the line is
The gas is wrong
The line isn't clean
Whether the pub serves food or not
How the pint is poured
The last has no bearing on the taste. Food will apparently leave traces of fats in the glasses which in turn causes a bad pint. However plenty of people will swear that you can get a good pint in lots of establishments that serve food. Distance from the line can be a factor for any beer but if the beer is flowing regularly this shouldn't be an issue. Despite what some people will argue, gas and line cleaning are all managed by Diageo so are the exact same in every pub.
One thing which is hard to appraise is the psychological effect. Your brain will make certain assumptions if you're in an old man pub, with a fire lit and a load of fella supping pints versus when you're in a sterile looking nightclub. I worked in an old man type, fire lit place that served food and had the kegs in the cellar with just over half a pint in the lines. The Guinness was said to be fantastic. The pints in the function room were pulled from a keg directly below the tap yet people would leave the function room to go and get a pint upstairs. Likewise, if the barman does the whole 2 part pour a lot of drinkers will assume the pint will somehow taste better than if it's poured in one go. It's part and parcel with the "magic" of Guinness, in the same way people claim Guinness "doesn't travel".
I have drank pints that tasted like they were watered down in some parts of the country. I'd swear that it was their mid-strength being served as regular >:(
Quote from: DEMPSEY on September 14, 2016, 10:44:07 AM
I have drank pints that tasted like they were watered down in some parts of the country. I'd swear that it was their mid-strength being served as regular >:(
Can't see that happening, the rep would blow a gasket if he came in and found the wrong kegs tapped up. Plus I don't think there's any saving for the pub to do that and very few pubs even stock the mid-strength. Guinness
is watery as well.
Well the pint today is as thin as water. Take the head off and then you can see :-X
Thanks for the replies guys.
Haven't heard the one about food before. Not the issue in this pub as they don't do food. This is a busy pub so it is def flowing. I found a slight smell off it (my brother didn't), like dirty water, maybe that's from the lines being dirty? It annoys me that the bar aren't aware of the issue and that diagio don't care a bit more.
I don't think it is psychological for me in this case as it is my local, even though I am a bit pissed off that they got rid of their craft tap, as I have heard Guinness only drinkers also complain about the quality of it. Also, prob the best pint of Guinness was in one of the roughest bars I was ever in. But I do get/agree with what Irish Goat was saying about old man pubs or sterile nightclubs etc.
I agree with Dempsey about it being watery. A few times I have found that the first half of a pint to be fine then the rest of it is pure piss, wtf like.
Quote from: BigDanny84 on September 14, 2016, 11:41:26 AM
Haven't heard the one about food before. Not the issue in this pub as they don't do food. This is a busy pub so it is def flowing. I found a slight smell off it (my brother didn't), like dirty water, maybe that's from the lines being dirty? It annoys me that the bar aren't aware of the issue and that diagio don't care a bit more.
Food can be an issue if the same dishwasher is used with the glasses. If you look behind a bar as well you can normally see large stickers reminding staff not to use dishwasher tablets etc. as residue will affect head retention/lacing.
If the lines are dirty/unused what will happen is the beer will sour in the lines, or if there is a load of line cleaner left in it and its not 'blown' or rinsed out properly it will leave a chemical taint.
From the list of common causes put up by irish_goat there the only one that could affect mouthfeel is the gas. Part of the reason macros use nitro is to improve mouthfeel and appearance (the cascade effect in the glass).
Anything other than that is the bull or mythos that Diageo have spent so much on over the years.
Look at it from a production standpoint, all macro should taste the same everywhere, anything else means their processes are shoddy. No one ever makes the same complaints about all the other swill churned out by James' Gate so that leads one to believe this complaint subjective.
Any explanation why Guinness in some places is just bitter and sharp, whereas others it's smooth and creamy? Def notice a difference in some pubs.
Quote from: irish_goat on September 14, 2016, 10:23:15 AM
One thing which is hard to appraise is the psychological effect. Your brain will make certain assumptions if you're in an old man pub, with a fire lit and a load of fella supping pints versus when you're in a sterile looking nightclub. I worked in an old man type, fire lit place that served food and had the kegs in the cellar with just over half a pint in the lines. The Guinness was said to be fantastic. The pints in the function room were pulled from a keg directly below the tap yet people would leave the function room to go and get a pint upstairs. Likewise, if the barman does the whole 2 part pour a lot of drinkers will assume the pint will somehow taste better than if it's poured in one go. It's part and parcel with the "magic" of Guinness, in the same way people claim Guinness "doesn't travel".
I was talking to a fella in London who used to work for Guinness and he said people always complained about the Guinness there not being as good as Dublin Guinness but when they swapped over to all Dublin Guinness the same guys never noticed. I think an awful lot of it is psychological. Like you say with Diageo now managing all the lines the days of good and bad Guinness are not nearly as common or as significant as they were years ago.
They clean the lines anywhere between 2 weeks and 60 days, I've seen full kegs in yards in sunshine not cellars. Depends on whether they are using a Nitrogenator and if it's calibrated, ditto with mixed regs, some just use 50:50 for Guinness.
Lots and lots of variables.
Yep I've heard loads of nasty stories and some really positive ones as to how vendors handle their product, if you are getting poor quality product let the vendor know, if he/she dismisses you let Diageo know.
I'd usually drink Guinness when I'm out and had some of the nicest pints ever from a bar in America.Used to believe the Guinness doesn't travel myth before that.
Talking to my local friendly barman here in Dublin, and he says it's all down to how long the kegs are left to settle in the cold store before being hooked up. He reckons you need at least a couple of weeks settling before you get good Guinness out of the tap. I think he has a point (all other things being equal).
It is very subjective though.
Quote from: SkiBeagle on September 14, 2016, 08:36:36 PM
Talking to my local friendly barman here in Dublin, and he says it's all down to how long the kegs are left to settle in the cold store before being hooked up. He reckons you need at least a couple of weeks settling before you get good Guinness out of the tap. I think he has a point (all other things being equal).
It is very subjective though.
I have an Aunt that used to run a pub in Kerry & I worked there for a summer. I drove them to distraction by using the pint glasses for drinking milk. Fat in the milk left a residue it so they claimed would not come off in the dishwasher. She was insistent that it impacted on the head retention.
Shanna
Quote from: irish_goat on September 14, 2016, 10:23:15 AM
It's part and parcel with the "magic" of Guinness, in the same way people claim Guinness "doesn't travel".
That used be true, sure wasn't IPA made extra strong for transport and then served undiluted in the officers mess and diluted for foot soldiers?
Heard loads of reasons why Guinness is great in some pubs and horrible in others over the years, my local is a pretty manky place, fellas there used to say the Guinness was so good because the lines were never cleaned! Worked in a hotel where the bar manager would go so far as throwing out a pint glass if he seen ya drinking milk out of it. Personally though I do think (as someone said) it's down to perception, if you're in a pub and all the old lads are supping pints then you automatically assume the pint is good, or, maybe it does have something to do with pints not sitting in the lines? Cause and effect? As my granda used to say, a good draw or pull on the pint.
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Don't enjoy a pint that's too cold. I find the slightly warm thick creamy ones the best.
Quote from: SkiBeagle on September 14, 2016, 08:36:36 PM
Talking to my local friendly barman here in Dublin, and he says it's all down to how long the kegs are left to settle in the cold store before being hooked up. He reckons you need at least a couple of weeks settling before you get good Guinness out of the tap.
That'd make some sense if it was a live beer, but for a pasteurised beer? There should be no change in the product when kegged or bottled.
Heineken or AB Inbev products taste pretty much the same everywhere and their processes wouldn't be any different.
My take on it is that what people talk about re Diageo products is a mix of the remnants of people's memories of real ale techniques ie short lines, kegs coming into condition, the two part pour from when old and new beer was mixed, this is then mixed in with marketing guff.
Eoin that info about IPA isn't true afaik, the Ron Pattison blog shutupaboutbarclayperkins is a great source for accurate information on historic brewing. Some ales were sent overseas, of varying strengths where everyone drank it.
Well the best Beamish I've had by far was in Callanans bar in Cork City which have the keg directly under the bar. Was so good
Quote from: Eoin on September 15, 2016, 09:20:13 AM
That used be true, sure wasn't IPA made extra strong for transport and then served undiluted in the officers mess and diluted for foot soldiers?
No.