Title: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: johnrm on October 18, 2016, 08:07:16 PM
Post by: johnrm on October 18, 2016, 08:07:16 PM
Up for a meet?
Abbotts was good fun, snug but they managed us well.
Bierhaus and FranWell are festivaling - Could meetr in Abbotts then head for one of these.
we seem to be running out of month here...
Thoughts?
Abbotts was good fun, snug but they managed us well.
Bierhaus and FranWell are festivaling - Could meetr in Abbotts then head for one of these.
we seem to be running out of month here...
Thoughts?
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: Dr Horrible on October 19, 2016, 02:56:56 PM
Post by: Dr Horrible on October 19, 2016, 02:56:56 PM
I was going to head to the Fran Well fest anyway so Id be up for a meet ok. Earlyish on the Friday?
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Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: mr hoppy on October 20, 2016, 09:03:13 PM
Post by: mr hoppy on October 20, 2016, 09:03:13 PM
bump
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: tommy on October 20, 2016, 11:09:40 PM
Post by: tommy on October 20, 2016, 11:09:40 PM
Friday the 25th?
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 21, 2016, 05:21:07 PM
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 21, 2016, 05:21:07 PM
Fri 25th in the Abbott sounds good.
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: Dr Horrible on October 21, 2016, 05:36:51 PM
Post by: Dr Horrible on October 21, 2016, 05:36:51 PM
I thought we were talking about October?
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Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: tommy on October 21, 2016, 06:25:02 PM
Post by: tommy on October 21, 2016, 06:25:02 PM
Meant to say the 28th of October, looked at the wrong month on the calender
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: Dr Horrible on October 22, 2016, 06:47:14 PM
Post by: Dr Horrible on October 22, 2016, 06:47:14 PM
Good stuff, see you then.
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Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: johnrm on October 24, 2016, 09:18:25 PM
Post by: johnrm on October 24, 2016, 09:18:25 PM
I may have to travel with work so cannot commit.
The long weekend is this weekend.
Start a list and pick a time...
The long weekend is this weekend.
Start a list and pick a time...
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: leahyed on October 26, 2016, 08:57:07 PM
Post by: leahyed on October 26, 2016, 08:57:07 PM
Is this meet going ahead? If yes, where and what date/time. The thread is a bit confusing (or is it just me !!!).
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: johnrm on October 26, 2016, 11:16:36 PM
Post by: johnrm on October 26, 2016, 11:16:36 PM
Not sure, I can't commit much as don't have lots of time these days, and nobody at the helm here, so anyone is welcome to step up.
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Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: dcalnan on October 27, 2016, 10:42:04 AM
Post by: dcalnan on October 27, 2016, 10:42:04 AM
Sorry I'm busy all weekend.
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: johnrm on October 27, 2016, 11:16:57 PM
Post by: johnrm on October 27, 2016, 11:16:57 PM
Coming from work. Can be there anytime, I'll Cinderella off for the last train.
Friday
1. Johnrm - beerless
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Friday
1. Johnrm - beerless
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Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 28, 2016, 12:06:52 PM
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 28, 2016, 12:06:52 PM
Friday
1. Johnrm - beerless
2. SkiBeagle - Calibration Blonde
1. Johnrm - beerless
2. SkiBeagle - Calibration Blonde
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 28, 2016, 05:22:48 PM
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 28, 2016, 05:22:48 PM
Should we defer to next Friday, given the low expected turnout?
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: johnrm on October 28, 2016, 06:25:46 PM
Post by: johnrm on October 28, 2016, 06:25:46 PM
2 more bods coming along...
Friday
1. Johnrm - random beers
2. SkiBeagle - Calibration Blonde
3. Justin
4. Sara
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Friday
1. Johnrm - random beers
2. SkiBeagle - Calibration Blonde
3. Justin
4. Sara
Sent from my Samsung Note Sev... Fire! Fire!
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: johnrm on October 28, 2016, 10:12:50 PM
Post by: johnrm on October 28, 2016, 10:12:50 PM
Plus a few more.
Great night had by all.
A cunny bunch of funts!
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Great night had by all.
A cunny bunch of funts!
Sent from my Samsung Note Sev... Fire! Fire!
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: johnrm on October 29, 2016, 10:00:17 AM
Post by: johnrm on October 29, 2016, 10:00:17 AM
Skibeagle had an interesting lager.
Employing yeast and sugar in the liquor to deoxygenate.
And links Ski?
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Employing yeast and sugar in the liquor to deoxygenate.
And links Ski?
Sent from my Samsung Note Sev... Fire! Fire!
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 30, 2016, 12:08:23 PM
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 30, 2016, 12:08:23 PM
Yeah - some great controversy being stirred up on HBT about this. Religious Flame Wars and the Nuke Gay Whales for Jesus crowd in full flow.
HBT thread: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=580532
There's a very active website and forum dedicated to this:
germanbrewing.net
The keystone paper is at: http://www.germanbrewing.net/docs/Brewing-Bavarian-Helles.pdf
Some HBT people felt miffed by the attitude of the GBF crew, but I found them very helpful. They've put a phenomenal amount of time and effort into this, and I think it's worth exploring. It's a work in progress, with a lot of careful research and experimentation behind it. I'd be very interested in what people think of it. They recommend an experiment called the mini-mash which is easy and quick to do, to test the hypothesis. Well worth the time. You only need some Sodium Metabisulphite or Campden tabs to do it.
You'll find reports of the yeast deoxygenation technique in the forum at:
http://forum.germanbrewing.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=355
I'm planning a write-up on changes I'm making in my process to reduce O2 ingress.
HBT thread: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=580532
There's a very active website and forum dedicated to this:
germanbrewing.net
The keystone paper is at: http://www.germanbrewing.net/docs/Brewing-Bavarian-Helles.pdf
Some HBT people felt miffed by the attitude of the GBF crew, but I found them very helpful. They've put a phenomenal amount of time and effort into this, and I think it's worth exploring. It's a work in progress, with a lot of careful research and experimentation behind it. I'd be very interested in what people think of it. They recommend an experiment called the mini-mash which is easy and quick to do, to test the hypothesis. Well worth the time. You only need some Sodium Metabisulphite or Campden tabs to do it.
You'll find reports of the yeast deoxygenation technique in the forum at:
http://forum.germanbrewing.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=355
I'm planning a write-up on changes I'm making in my process to reduce O2 ingress.
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: mr hoppy on October 30, 2016, 02:50:10 PM
Post by: mr hoppy on October 30, 2016, 02:50:10 PM
In a similar vein
http://hoptripper.com/the-real-quality-issue-oxidation/
http://hoptripper.com/the-real-quality-issue-oxidation/
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: Leann ull on October 30, 2016, 04:20:25 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 30, 2016, 04:20:25 PM
Interesting, one thing is raising an eyebrow, oxygenating after pitching.
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: Dr Horrible on October 30, 2016, 10:29:43 PM
Post by: Dr Horrible on October 30, 2016, 10:29:43 PM
Oxygenating wort (or aerating) isnt that unusual, listen to a lot of the TBN podcasts and its common enough, done it myself for a few high gravity brews and its worked out well. In the yeast growth phase oxygen is necessary, it only becomes detrimental at high krausen and after.
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Title: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: Leann ull on October 31, 2016, 04:56:36 AM
Post by: Leann ull on October 31, 2016, 04:56:36 AM
Yep I gave a squirt to a RIS 12 hours in before, but I thought pure 02 killed yeast, bloody Palmer
Here's an interesting article which debunks role of 02 in fermentation and you don't need o2 at all, stick with it
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/oxygen_in_fermentation
Here's an interesting article which debunks role of 02 in fermentation and you don't need o2 at all, stick with it
https://www.morebeer.com/articles/oxygen_in_fermentation
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 31, 2016, 01:02:28 PM
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 31, 2016, 01:02:28 PM
Very interesting articles, thanks CH and MrHoppy. I'd come across the crabtree effect before, but never seen it explained so clearly for homebrewers. Some of the GBF guys avoid the need for O2 by pitching the slurry from the previous brew - effectively the yeast is doubling or tripling in size, so not much need for O2 at all. Now I understand how that could work. And of course, when I use a dry yeast like Notty, there's no need to aerate if the right amount is pitched, because it has all the nutrients it needs to grow.
In this hobby, every day is a schoolday!
In this hobby, every day is a schoolday!
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: Leann ull on October 31, 2016, 03:52:45 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 31, 2016, 03:52:45 PM
I was hung up on a need for 02 rather than the quality and quantity of yeast 
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: mr hoppy on October 31, 2016, 03:54:10 PM
Post by: mr hoppy on October 31, 2016, 03:54:10 PM
How was your beer ski beagle. Did you observe a noticeable effect?
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: Leann ull on October 31, 2016, 04:00:04 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 31, 2016, 04:00:04 PM
Ooh yeah be very interested in process/result if you've tried it?
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 31, 2016, 05:23:30 PM
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 31, 2016, 05:23:30 PM
I should ask our very own fully qualified beer judge to comment!
I was very pleased with the colour - very pale gold and very clear, all a good sign that it hasn't suffered much oxidation. Taste is very clean (recipe is just Lager Malt, Hallertauer Tradition hops, Notty yeast fermented around 15ºC). Downside is a very strong sulphur aroma from the remaining sodium metabisulphite. This is down to three things: ale yeasts are not as good at clearing up sulphur as lager yeasts; I probably could reduce the SMB dose down from 50mg/litre to something smaller; and I did a closed pressurised fermentation, and it probably would have been better if I let it breathe during the active ferment. The aroma is getting better as time passes - this beer is only 4 weeks old. I've had this before with T-58 yeast, and that cleared up after a few weeks.
I've done 4 brews now trying to progressively incorporate low O2 techniques, and I think the beers are definitely better. One thing I notice is that mash-smell is gone - not filling the house any more, which means it's staying in the pot. This is the first one that has a sulphur aroma. But this is a calibration beer, very light flavour, very light colour, IBU ~20, no crystal malts whatsoever, no finings, no dry-hops. Think of the heavenly delight that is Coors. The idea is to make a beer that has nowhere to hide - it very evident if O2 is getting in, or if any off-flavours are developing. The other 3 brews were with ale malt, some crystal/vienna and more hops - easier to hide flaws. They tasted great. I do this calibration beer every few months to see how my process is doing.
I think low O2 beers with SMB will need longer lagering to let the sulphur dissipate, or else maybe a better choice of yeast that can clean up sulphur better. T-58 might be worth another go, because it produces sulphur like a lager yeast and can clean it up given time. If you have any suggestions for yeasts to try, I'd be very interested.
I was very pleased with the colour - very pale gold and very clear, all a good sign that it hasn't suffered much oxidation. Taste is very clean (recipe is just Lager Malt, Hallertauer Tradition hops, Notty yeast fermented around 15ºC). Downside is a very strong sulphur aroma from the remaining sodium metabisulphite. This is down to three things: ale yeasts are not as good at clearing up sulphur as lager yeasts; I probably could reduce the SMB dose down from 50mg/litre to something smaller; and I did a closed pressurised fermentation, and it probably would have been better if I let it breathe during the active ferment. The aroma is getting better as time passes - this beer is only 4 weeks old. I've had this before with T-58 yeast, and that cleared up after a few weeks.
I've done 4 brews now trying to progressively incorporate low O2 techniques, and I think the beers are definitely better. One thing I notice is that mash-smell is gone - not filling the house any more, which means it's staying in the pot. This is the first one that has a sulphur aroma. But this is a calibration beer, very light flavour, very light colour, IBU ~20, no crystal malts whatsoever, no finings, no dry-hops. Think of the heavenly delight that is Coors. The idea is to make a beer that has nowhere to hide - it very evident if O2 is getting in, or if any off-flavours are developing. The other 3 brews were with ale malt, some crystal/vienna and more hops - easier to hide flaws. They tasted great. I do this calibration beer every few months to see how my process is doing.
I think low O2 beers with SMB will need longer lagering to let the sulphur dissipate, or else maybe a better choice of yeast that can clean up sulphur better. T-58 might be worth another go, because it produces sulphur like a lager yeast and can clean it up given time. If you have any suggestions for yeasts to try, I'd be very interested.
Title: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: Leann ull on October 31, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
Post by: Leann ull on October 31, 2016, 05:49:33 PM
Sounds interesting enough to give it a go but campden has me
Title: Re: Rebel Oct Meet
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 31, 2016, 06:10:32 PM
Post by: SkiBeagle on October 31, 2016, 06:10:32 PM
Yeah - it's strange chucking 2 or 3 tablets into 20L of strike water. About 440mg apparently per tab. The main idea of it is that 15 ppm of SMB can scavenge 1 ppm of dissolved O2. You have to get rid of the DO first either by preboiling and chilling fast down to strike temps or else use the yeast method to clean up the liquor. Then say 50mg/L SMB to handle up to 3ppm O2 introduced by dough-in and the hour of mashing. Boiling is fine - no DO in boiling wort. Chilling then needs to be fast as possible to get down to pitch temps, where you have the protection of yeast again. The residual amount of sulfites left should be around 10ppm in the beer, which is comparable to commercial beers, where some is added for flavour stability and longevity, or in the case of German beers, is produced by the yeast.
They're testing using a mix of SMB, ascorbic acid and possibly Brewtan-B, to reduce the amount of SMB for ales, and that's looking very promising. Lager yeasts handle the SMB better, and the long lagering time sorts it out. Ales are more of a problem, but it may turn out to be finding the right yeast.
Defo try the mini-mash. Just a bit of malt, some campden, and you can see and taste the difference. Be very interested to get your opinion.
They're testing using a mix of SMB, ascorbic acid and possibly Brewtan-B, to reduce the amount of SMB for ales, and that's looking very promising. Lager yeasts handle the SMB better, and the long lagering time sorts it out. Ales are more of a problem, but it may turn out to be finding the right yeast.
Defo try the mini-mash. Just a bit of malt, some campden, and you can see and taste the difference. Be very interested to get your opinion.