National Homebrew Club Ireland

[Update 15/11/16]
[Update 16/11/16]
[Update 17/11/16 - second batch stats]
[Update 18/11/16 - second batch blend info]

So as not to keep updating the GB/problems/Wish list threads:

The Mix we got from Davy is:
30% Dabinette, 30% Michelin, Balance is  Laxton , Golden Delicious , Jonagold and Falstaff.
It has a wonderful flavour, hint of tannin but may be a bit low on acidity - time will tell

My analysis:

1.050 (Hydrometer)
1.046 ( Refractometer)

ph 3.5 so its 2 campdens per gallon if you want to.

So this morning (15/11/16) all the juices were just starting to show signs of fermentation in the drums.

So far I have two fermenters going (both are outside):

#1: A 23 Litre keeve in glass (No CTs, just added the PME), 36 hours later awill dd the Calcium Chloride and hope! [update]   So CaCl2 added this morning, gentle natural fermentation. looking good.

#2: 45 litres with 10 CTs (ok 1/2 the amount) with nutrients and wine yeast.

The 3 more batches with No yeast(No CTs), S-05(plus CTs), and Notty(plus CTs).

All are outside.

All now bubbling slowly!


Ok, Second batch stats:

Og: 1.0050 (H), 1.050 (R)
pH 3.7

So its 3 CTs per gallon - say 16 to each drum.

Variety's Used:
Dabinett 60% Tipperary Pippin 20% and Elstar 20%

Tasting Notes:

Very sweet and full bodied, Very Low acidity (as pH says), Low to no tannins.

Not sure of apple mix yet but will update OP!

Hi Will,

Cheers for the info. What's PME? Pasteurised Malt Extract?

I have 25L that I'm going to let go au natural this year, my first time for wild cider yeast. Any tips? I have it sitting in a fridge at 20C. It hasn't really kicked off yet, will there be a krausen? How long should I leave it on the yeast (lees?) before transferring to another vessel. Some have said months, others have said treat it like beer yeast.

I have 5L going au natural and the rest is dosed with Campden, ready for a pitch of notty tonight. There was a tiny bit of airlock activity from the natural this morning.

Quote from: Johnnycheech on November 15, 2016, 07:29:31 AM
I have it sitting in a fridge at 20C.

Outside temps seem to be just fine given long enough. Somebody posted a video of a 2L bottle actively fermenting in their kitchen fridge last year.
My container was very swollen when I got it last year. I just needed to let off some pressure every day until it stopped happening. I left mine outside.
If it isn't fermenting so furiously this year then just letting it do its own thing might not work out so well.

Apart from last 48 hours it's been cold and Juice came out of cold storage 
Last year it was warm like today
It's forecast to get cold again tomorrow thank god!

Is the notty, the notty beer yeast???

Should I add campden only tonight with the yeast & nutrient going in tomorrow night - otherwise the campden will kill off both the natural and added yeast?

I think that's the order I did it last year.

Quote from: Will_D on November 14, 2016, 10:23:54 PM
[Update 15/11/16]
It has a wonderful flavour, hint of tannin but may be a bit low on acidity - time will tell

My analysis:

1.050 (Hydrometer)
1.046 ( Refractometer)

ph 3.5 so its 2 campdens per gallon if you want to.

I liked the taste of the juice. My memory might be playing tricks on me but it seemed different to Con's ones (which I also liked a lot).

I checked with refractometer and ph meter (yay new toy!) and got 1.044 and 3.48 so fairly much in line with you. Just wondering if you had any thoughts on why the hydrometer is higher? I assume it's more reliable given that it's based on a larger volume of juice?

Will be sticking with cultured yeast on the balanced, based on what CH said Davy does, and glad of it after the decanting!

Quote from: rje66 on November 15, 2016, 08:14:44 PM
Is the notty, the notty beer yeast???

Sssh, it'll be fine. So Nigel says :) Too late now anyway! :)

In some cider/yeast trials a couple of years ago Nottingham Ale yeast was voted as one of the best yeasts to use.

don't remember that one?, http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/cider#experiments

Damo did one using Pilsner yeast and it was uber clean and lovely

Pitched 2 packs of dried yeast last night in 46 litres after dosing it with 24 Camden tablets. Waiting on some additional yeast to up the cell count as I have only 2 packs for the other juice from Tipperary. Wasn't counting on 20 litres being 23 or accounting for their being extra juice :) Going to be loads of cider next year so fingers crossed it goes well.

Shanna

Just pitched a packet of Belle Saison at lunch. For my 1 drum my process was: Yesterday 1pm add 8 crushed campdens, midnight add 2 tsp pectolase, today 1pm add 3 tsp yeast nutrient along with 1 packet Belle Saison. Hopefully it turns into something tasty in the coming year..

Just started to Keeve
http://cidersupply.com/Wild-Horton%20Keeving%20Page.html
Lets see how this works out, never done it before and I am dubious as it looks tricky

ive a half drum of apple juice outside that started fermenting by itself, will i leave it off on its own or can i add more AP to it and than add some campden tablets and go from there ?

AP?
I'd let it go now but bring it somewhere warmer ambient will be 4-8 Degrees next couple of days you are looking for somewhere between 13-16 not over 18!! Assuming you are using champagne cider or wine yeast

Apple Juice, thanks for the info. 8)

Hi Lads,

My first time making cider so have a few questions. I'm going to use white labs california ale yeast (recommended in byo magazine). Do I need a yeast starter as I would with beer or can I pitch direct?  had considered making a starter with 2 litres of un campdened juice and adding campden tabs to the rest of it. Do I need to add pectolase and if so when?  Does the recommended fermentation temp still apply when using beer yeast or do I need to go lower? 

Cheers in advance. Getting the Traas juice tomorrow.

Eer your leaving this very late  ;D
Yeast Starter mixed apple and dme starter 50:50 any pasteurised juice will do
subject to aj juice ph, 10-12 campden into 1/4 pint and into microwave until fully clear and dissolved, do not sniff it it will knock you out. into drum gentle swirl. leave min 24 hours to kill any natural fermentation then pitch.
All of above is in wills Cider 101
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/index.php/topic,4308.msg52996.html#msg52996
ferment at low end of rec yeast temp so 18 for Cal Ale Yeast yeah?

Anybody have a PH reading yet for the second batch of Apple Juice? 

How long can I leave the aj after adding campden tablets before I add cider yeast? If I add the campden tonight could I pitch yeast tomorrow morning? Or could I wait til Sunday?

Ok, Second batch stats:

Og: 1.0050 (H), 1.050 (R)
pH 3.7

So its 3 CTs per gallon - say 16 to each drum.

Tasting Notes:

Very sweet and full bodied, Low acidity (as pH says), Low tannins.

Not sure of apple mix yet but will update OP!

Hi Will thanks for that on the pH did you factor in temp? Seems high?

Quote from: Will_D on November 17, 2016, 07:28:21 PM
Ok, Second batch stats:

Og: 1.0050 (H), 1.050 (R)
pH 3.7

So its 3 CTs per gallon - say 16 to each drum.

Tasting Notes:

Very sweet and full bodied, Low acidity (as pH says), Low tannins.

Not sure of apple mix yet but will update OP!

Thanks John I'll follow your advice. Got the juice this evening it tastes fantastic. Sweeter and darker than I would have expected.

Watch the amount of crap that drops of it in next couple of weeks

Cons formulation  Dabinett 60% Tipperary Pippin 20% and Elstar 20%

Just checked again at 20 C and its still pH 3.7

What do the other pH meters say - there should be a few around after the  last GB!

Two drums outside still have ice on top. Temp in drums 2.1C Outside air temp 2.2C Brrrr

Quote from: beernut on November 17, 2016, 08:59:36 PMSweeter and darker than I would have expected.

Definitely. I was surprised by how drinkable the juice was, not at all what I was expecting.

I quite liked it as juice but it needed a bit of acid to balance it out!

Is there any reason I cant ferment in the container the juice came in?

No I do
Open cap barely to the point that it's not loose but just open, positive head of pressure will blow off the lid as she begins to ferment
Make sure you dilute campden well in warm water, a gentle tip of drum, not shook 02 is not or friend for cider, to mix.
Outside temps are too cold to ferment, pick a spot 13-16 degrees in the house to ferment on cider wine champagne cider or Pilsner yeast
You might consider drawing a bit off and drinking it today to make room for krausen, you don't need as much headspace as beer

Quote from: CH on November 18, 2016, 04:56:56 PM
Open cap barely to the point that it's not loose but just open, positive head of pressure will blow off the lid

That reminds me, I need to have a frank discussion with the chisellers tonight about not messing with Daddy's new beer buckets..

Quote from: CH on November 18, 2016, 04:56:56 PM
a gentle tip of drum, not shook 02 is not or friend for cider, to mix.

This was news to me, after I had a conversation with CH yesterday evening. When I got juice in 2014 and 2015, I aerated the hell out of it.. :-/

Another tip if you want to bump your gravity if to use brown sugar for a more complex profile instead of white.

Wonder could we add the brown sugar when transferring to secondary. It'll referment but  means I can try it in a small 5L sample...

So how long before you move to secondary?

Cider is long and slow and can drop to 0.995 so keep the hydrometer sanitised :)

My yeast is away! Youngs cider yeast. What's everyone else using?

Mangrove Jacks Cider yeast

Just letting them go with their natural yeast. I have them in a fridge that's at around 19C and there is noticeable activity in the demo-john, interesting smell emanating from the fermenter at the moment too. I have read that the natural yeast can vary between absolutely amazing and much better than any packet yeast to badger's arse.

The year before last I made a batch with just plain white packet yeast. I used a decent dose of campden to kill off the natural yeast initially and I was left with a hefty bang of sulphur that never faded, i want to avoid that this time.

I think in the spring I'll transfer it to demi-johns with the following additions: strawberries, raspberries and blackberries in various ratios and quantities. Roll on the spring. Cheers CH!   O0

Used Danstar Belle Saison. Fermenting away nicely now.

EC118, Bulldog, Uvaferm(commercial wine yeast) and yeast I like most, Gervin

Anyone know where the supplier got the drums, would be handy for storeing beer.

So without Campden or yeast this is what it should look like now
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161119/087685fc9fa11674dc0deff44ea4f7fd.jpg)

With Campden it kills or suppresses the natural yeasties and so here is one with campden, and I have just pitched the yeast

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161119/e4b076dc52afd504cbee349cb3fa2ea3.jpg)

Its very interesting as to how the 2 juices are fermenting:

The Monday juice bubbles away without much foam.

The Thursday juice is very foamy!

I think it's because the Thursday juice went straight into drums will with all the goodies whereas the Monday juice went into ibcs first and then into drums

Me and cider just don't get along, it seems..

I've got two drums of the same juice (dry), both campden and then yeast pitched 24 hours later. Both drums stored in the same place. One is now fermenting away the last 2 days, and the other has barely taken off, it at all.  ???

same yeast?

Same yeast..  :(

Would storing the aj in the shed have killed the yeast I added? Brought it inside and barely any activity

Shed! It's 5-6 degrees out there you want 12-16 min or higher if using beer yeast

Have you a bubbler on it how are you qualifying fermentation? one closer to a rad or on a cold spot by window?

No bubbler. Just looking at the foam, or lack thereof, on the two containers.

No difference in location, no rads, or differences in temperature to speak of. It's a mystery..

I'll take another look at the non performer tonight, and pitch more yeast if it's not doing much.

Screw it tight for an hour
Don't forget to open!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjrR_SX4aBg&sns=em

Quote from: CH on November 22, 2016, 11:15:50 AM
Shed! It's 5-6 degrees out there you want 12-16 min or higher if using beer yeast

Mangrove jack cider yeast is what I'm using

Still too cold outside at the moment

Quote from: delzep on November 22, 2016, 01:56:04 PM

Quote from: CH on November 22, 2016, 11:15:50 AM
Shed! It's 5-6 degrees out there you want 12-16 min or higher if using beer yeast

Mangrove jack cider yeast is what I'm using

I have two batches from last week (1 balanced, 1 dry) on Bulldog cider yeast and they took off in no time. 

One other batch is with MJ cider yeast and that doesn't seem to have taken off at all, pitched 6 days ago and no bubbling. All in the same room, all with same process.

No experience with MJ cider yeast what does it say about volume it can be used for and temp?

Ok just checked, another black mark for MJ yeasts from me.
I don't know what the hell it is but it ain't traditional cider yeast if it's required to ferment at those sorts of temps.

Anybody using this yeast please bring to room temp ASAP

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161122/bc58ff4575d1adfb8696ebf1d9328373.png)

In contrast, Gervin is the same.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161122/6b18fd2f67d7838ec919836f2020ed2b.png)

Where did you get that info on the MJ yeast? The package says ferment anywhere from 12 C to 28 C

I've got it at 17C in my ferm fridge. It had a krausen on it yesterday but its gone now. I have to move it to make way for beer tomorrow. Might just keep it in the house for another week or two before going to the shed. I've a spare lagging jacket I might throw around it in the shed.

Off their website
http://mangrovejacks.com/products/craft-series-cider-yeast

Why do so many of the yeast companies have contradictory info on their packets and their sites. Really annoying.

If it's a champagne strain yer grand but I'd be afraid it wasn't and then you'd have wasted your money and be dependant on natural yeast.

I dunno sure we'll have to wait and see. Might have a look online and see how other people got on with it.

The MJ craft series booklet (I think we got it at brewcon) says the recommended temperature range for the M02 cider yeast is from 12-28 degrees!

Just to be clear for everyone and I have said it on several occasions now allowing AJ to ferment naturally has an element of risk. I know you big boys and girls and can make up your own minds.
I even do 10% all natural but don't cry if it's goes wallop.
All the commercial guys use commercial wine or champagne yeast or some will risk it depending on the weather and if they believe there is enough  yeast left on the fruit.

Sorry, I see I'm just after repeating Qs' post

Quote from: CH on November 22, 2016, 07:53:58 PM
I even do 10% all natural but don't cry if it's goes wallop.
All the commercial guys use commercial wine or champagne yeast or some will risk it depending on the weather and if they believe there is enough yeast left on the fruit.

When you say wallop do you mean the yeast packs it in too early and FG is too high? Or that it might taste like cider vinegar?

Also do you know what affects the amount of yeast on the fruit? Cold weather?

rain washes it off, not all natural yeasts are right for fermentation

Mj cider yeast is bubbling away nicely now

Pitched rehydrated MJ M02 into each of my ciders last night, on top of the Notty that was already in there, just to see if I get something a bit more interesting... Sure what could go wrong ;)

My house smells like Clonmel.

Quote from: Qs on November 23, 2016, 11:21:39 AM
My house smells like Clonmel.

;D

Farty?

Stop shit talking my hometown boys ;)

Really? That explains loads

Quote from: Qs on November 23, 2016, 11:21:39 AM
My house smells like Clonmel.

Did you add any nutrients?

Quote from: Will_D on November 23, 2016, 10:20:15 PM

Quote from: Qs on November 23, 2016, 11:21:39 AM
My house smells like Clonmel.

Did you add any nutrients?

I added yeast nutrients in to both my fermenters at the start and the room where the fermenters are smells of a very acidic sulphur aroma. Thank god it finally started to ferment or otherwise my wife would have divorced me due to the strength of the smell :-(

Shanna

I added yeast nutrients in to both my fermenters at the start and the room where the fermenters are smells of a very acidic sulphur aroma.
[/quote]

Is this not from the Campden tabs? That's the smell I get after I open the box of Campden tabs anyway

No the apple juice, once it gets going, makes plenty of sulphur. My garage has an interesting mix of juicy apple and sulphur at the moment. It's not unpleasant, but not great either :)

I find it quite pleasant until I get too near to it.

ahahaha in states they call it rhino farts :)
found out i will get that without nutrients and with them. only thing with nutrients it is goes away more quickly .

I love the drum this came in.  Fits in the bottom of my fermentation fridge.

Quote from: Johnnycheech on November 24, 2016, 06:50:14 AM

I added yeast nutrients in to both my fermenters at the start and the room where the fermenters are smells of a very acidic sulphur aroma.

Is this not from the Campden tabs? That's the smell I get after I open the box of Campden tabs anyway
[/quote]
Probably given that it contains a sulphur compound however if you read my comment it was in response to what Will_D said about adding nutrients? I thought he meant that adding nutrients would help counteract the smell.

Shanna

Was cycling past Booterstown today and realised that the smell of the sea/marsh was exactly like the smell from. The fermenting aj  ;D

Nice message from my daughter tonight
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161125/a11002feebcf20b4fe14a6c31dfa984c.png)

How inadvisable is it to age the cider in the bucket it came in? I have no glass fermenters and this bucket of farts is going in the shed this weekend

3-4 months max and then into glass to the top top some pros will put olive oil in the neck.
I use Cornys for long term storage.
You can get away with storage longer off the fermented crap but will oxidise.
Last year I left 1 full drum in shed which even in summer is cool, untouched no campden nothing, it will be used for marinating/cooking, its drinkable but not my best work

Quote from: BrewDorg on November 25, 2016, 09:46:47 AM
How inadvisable is it to age the cider in the bucket it came in? I have no glass fermenters and this bucket of farts is going in the shed this weekend

Think it's ok for fermentation but plastic is oxygen permeable, so the cider will oxidise in the barrel it came in. Can you pop it into a keg for secondary?
I stick most of the barrel into a keg and then the remaining ~5L goes into a glass demi this year, along with some fruits, before being bottled.

Quote from: CH on November 25, 2016, 09:57:12 AM
3-4 months max and then into glass to the top top some pros will put olive oil in the neck.
I use Cornys for long term storage.

How long do you usually leave it on the lees before transferring to the keg for storage? I've been transferring in January, but want to make sure I'm doing it right this year...

The garage is starting to smell good now. The sulphur has died down, strangely enough at the same time as I added the M02 yeast to the fermenting batches. Now it's getting nice and appely in there. Fairly constant 14C, so it's taking it's time.

Quote from: CH on November 25, 2016, 09:57:12 AM
3-4 months max and then into glass to the top top some pros will put olive oil in the neck.
I use Cornys for long term storage.
You can get away with storage longer off the fermented crap but will oxidise.
Last year I left 1 full drum in shed which even in summer is cool, untouched no campden nothing, it will be used for marinating/cooking, its drinkable but not my best work

What is the olive oil for?

Preservation,oxygen barrier
Never tried it to be honest I'm guessing it floats

Worth a try!

Think I'll go with a keg on that advice. It'll be tough having a keg wrapped up for so long though hmmm

Quote from: BrewDorg on November 25, 2016, 12:19:25 PM
Think I'll go with a keg on that advice. It'll be tough having a keg wrapped up for so long though hmmm

That's why you get more kegs >:) I just keg from the fermenter and worry about what I'm going to do with it later :D

I have two at the moment, with another two on the way. Can't see it stopping there though, especially now that one'll be full of cider until Summer :D

Quote from: CH on November 25, 2016, 12:43:40 AM
Nice message from my daughter tonight
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161125/a11002feebcf20b4fe14a6c31dfa984c.png)

Oh the stink from 15 drums

I've only got 2 and they STINK!! I can't even imagine 15!!

Apart from the MJ Saisson experiment (indoors ar 22C) all mine are outsideand are bubbling away slowly when it 6C or above (berr yeasts/wine yeasts/natural)

No bad smells either!

And yes I do sniff the bubblers!!

Quote from: Keg on November 25, 2016, 10:10:28 AM

Quote from: CH on November 25, 2016, 09:57:12 AM
3-4 months max and then into glass to the top top some pros will put olive oil in the neck.
I use Cornys for long term storage.
You can get away with storage longer off the fermented crap but will oxidise.
Last year I left 1 full drum in shed which even in summer is cool, untouched no campden nothing, it will be used for marinating/cooking, its drinkable but not my best work

What is the olive oil for?

Its standard practice for Italian home wine makers. No need for an airlock - just fill to the neck of the Demi John and then a few mms of olive oil.

Now bear in mind that this is usually red wine and the wine will be drunk with Bread, Cheeses, MEats and olive oil so a hint of olive in the wine is not a problem.

However it may taint the cider somewhat!

Ah I see, thanks. So I guess we'd want to be very sure that fermentation is finished so there's no further bubbling to break the surface!

Just an update on my ciders. All are outside and fermenting nice and slow:

Its about 9C at moment. Anything over 6C is enough for the yeasts to show a little bubbling (Natural/beer/wine are all fermenting).

The big Siebel on the left is 30 L of Davys juice and its already down to 1.040

The other Siebel one is my MRFC juice (started a month earlier) and is down to 1.002

You can tell Will used to work on spaceships, I'm feeling a bit sick looking at that pic

Chapeau Brun anyone? It looks like I need a big blob of cream with this Black Forest gateaux, although my kids are calling it turd juice now

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161126/7b55b8c3929db6a10ec0f1ee85467bdb.jpg)

Think you've got a good Chapeau Brun there big fella!

Yep but if needs to floc in reverse as it's 1/4 of the drum at the moment!

Quote from: CH on November 25, 2016, 05:11:58 PM

Quote from: CH on November 25, 2016, 12:43:40 AM
Nice message from my daughter tonight
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161125/a11002feebcf20b4fe14a6c31dfa984c.png)

Oh the stink from 15 drums y
Are you fermenting for the entire county of Wicklow there CH? Count yourself lucky re the smell, my youngest thought that the toilet had started to back up :) Thank god the yeast eventually kicked off so I could move the fermenters to the conservatory.

Shanna

Yep some serious moaning this morning, the worst will be over in another week and this isn't even touching the sides(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161127/d4f2e3054a0b5277ea3ecc0d5a6dabb3.jpg)

Not much of a honk off mine so far anyways, with the wild yeast.

Are you sure it's fermenting?

Yup. Never had any issues with smell from the wild yeast, and I used to keep the drums in me bedroom.

I better not comment :D

How long are people waiting until moving off the lees?
The first cider is at 1.000 now, should I wait until closer to .995?

Like all things Homebrewing
https://youtu.be/iDVuQi4gdtk

Quote from: Keg on December 02, 2016, 08:07:29 PM
How long are people waiting until moving off the lees?
The first cider is at 1.000 now, should I wait until closer to .995?

I'd say leave it there until Jan (or later). Transfer to keg & leave until summer, then bottle or pour.
It'll really only be ready this time next year.

Davy reckons you could drink his in April, not sure tbh

Noticeing some white bloom on the surface of wild yeast fermentation, took a sample and it tastes allright , nice aroma.
i assume this is ok

Not really. Film yeast is an infection and not desirable. Cider is more prone to infection than beer as it's not hopped. The trick is to minimise exposure to air / oxygen by minimising headspace and keeping the FV closed. Also, the longer you leave it the worse it will get.

If there's limited headspace already you can float the film off the top by adding cooled boiled water.

You could also rack the cider out from under neath the infection, being careful to avoid shaking it up and sinking it into the body of the cider. This might be a good option as it should be nearly ready to rack to secondary anyway. For secondary you want something oxygen impermeable. Kegs or carbons are good options. You'll want to purge kegs with CO2 and fill carboys right to the top. No headspace is good. With car boys stored in cold places be careful of suck back through air locks. CH mentioned that some of the pros put a layer of oil on top to block O2 and I've put sanitised tinfoil tied on with string. You do need to keep an eye on carboys as film yeast infection is common in secondary but can be easily floated off if caught in time.

More Campden might also be an idea but overdoing it won't make for a tasty cider either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just wondering when is a good time to rack cider to corny, I did one last week but it was at 1.000 I had added yeast to that batch, my other batch has no yeast added, its down to 1.006 today so definately getting there, should I let it ferment out fully. I can be patient for another week I guess if that's best.

  4 posts up ^

'... for another week ...', couple of months to go yet.

Patience Grasshopper

Quote from: Keg on November 22, 2016, 05:41:39 PM

Quote from: delzep on November 22, 2016, 01:56:04 PM

Quote from: CH on November 22, 2016, 11:15:50 AM
Shed! It's 5-6 degrees out there you want 12-16 min or higher if using beer yeast

Mangrove jack cider yeast is what I'm using

I have two batches from last week (1 balanced, 1 dry) on Bulldog cider yeast and they took off in no time. 

One other batch is with MJ cider yeast and that doesn't seem to have taken off at all, pitched 6 days ago and no bubbling. All in the same room, all with same process.

OK so the two ciders (dry/balanced) that used bulldog yeast turned out fine.  The one with MJ yeast seems to be infected.  I sterilised and sanitised all buckets together, used campden tablets etc but this one seems to have went a bit off track. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170211/f8fb2e43791504174bddc750836ccd20.jpg)

Cripes
Do you have another bucket and leave that behind
What does it tastes like underneath?

I had an infection with my batch too. I didn't let it get that far though, moved it corny and cold crashed a couple of weeks ago.

The weird thing is that the infection only formed in the 20L drum, whereas the 5L that was siphoned into a demi was fine. Strange considering it was all the same batch coming from the same place. Maybe the infection was present in the drum? 

I'm thinking of testing it and if it's sour/vinegary moving it onto some sort of sweet fruit and hoping for the best.

Quote from: CH on February 11, 2017, 07:29:39 PM
Cripes
Do you have another bucket and leave that behind
What does it tastes like underneath?

I haven't actually tasted it, don't have a tap on that bucket and if it's a dodgy infection I'm wary of siphoning it into another bucket... What do you think, dump or maybe siphon from under the top to investigate further?!

Actually before you do anything let me check with Davy as to what it may be

In the meantime while I am waiting for a response
http://www.cider.org.uk/part5.htm



Siphon from under top leave that and 2-3 inches behind .

You could also dissolve campdens in hot water and pour it in new vessel, saw cockagee rec 50ppm (1 per gal) on twitter but that seems a bit much to me?
Above article recs 2

Pour balance of nasty stuff into bottle or demijohn to see what develops and taste in a month.
Sterilise the fuck out of everything that's been in contact with bucket.

How's everybody else's mixed cider getting on?

Mixed cider? The balanced has come out pretty clean already with the dry needing a lot if time to clean up. Did some of the balanced natural and it has a lovely flavour profile young, though I suspect there's some Brett in there as well. Time will tell...

Dry will always be a long haul always was historically as well,  Pobs you tried at SCD was 2 years old, but it was spectacular.

Yeah Pobs was a great example of some good aging and a delicious drop.  No issue with the aging on the dry, as traditionally it's turned out to be a great cider after 12-18 months. I'm really interested in the natural vs. the Mj yeast. The pitched yeast is Def. lacking a lot of character that's in the natural ferment, just it'll take a while to see if it's just funky flavours I like or an infection that goes to vinegar.

Ok Davy has come back to me, he says it's a film yeast, rack off gently and leave skin behind adding some campden.

Having read this, decided to check the cornies, I ve a film yeast infection in the balanced also. I don't have another corny so thinking of maybe bottling that batch as I m about to move house so moving a corny with the infection is only going to mix it into it. The other thing I thought about was using cool boiled water to try and float the infection off the top. There is a bit of a gap, I m guessing I d probably need about 5 litres which will reduce the abv though as its coming out at about 6 % , I reckon it could probably take it? Any thoughts

Davy confirmed its contact with air. Odd since yours was in a corny though.
Take off into bucket with campden and bottle it or into another corny you need to be very very careful in moving and leave an inch it 2 behind

Quote from: CH on February 20, 2017, 09:49:23 PM
Davy confirmed its contact with air. Odd since yours was in a corny though.
Take off into bucket with campden and bottle it or into another corny you need to be very very careful in moving and leave an inch it 2 behind

I did two drums this year, both fermented in the container the juice the came in. Both drums from the same source (Con Traas). I racked one drum to a secondary FV and left the other one out of pure laziness. The juice in the secondary developed a light film yeast. So the problem definitely seems to be related to contact with the air.

I racked into a corny from under the film yeast, and left the remainder in the drum. I didn't use campden though. Fingers crossed.

Strange, on that logic my 5L that was transferred to a demi should have gotten the film yeast, but it was the juice in the white drum that showed it. Pretty sure no O2 was getting into the container, it was actively fermenting. Maybe there is some O2 permeability in those drums?

Out of the drums in 2-3 months and into glass or stainless filled right to neck, use Lidl apple juice if required and purge with co2 or olive oil head to keep bugs out
Fill yeast shouldn't taint but not great to have in there