National Homebrew Club Ireland

I ve been drinking the craft beers now for last 5 years or so, very happily like everyone enjoying the different flavours and offerings from the different breweries. I have however in the past 6 months or so noticed a bit of a decline in quality. Tonight I poured 2 beers down the sink, I did the same a few months back after getting some gushers. I m not sure if its a move to bigger premises and an expansion of production with a lot (not all) of breweries that seems to me to be producing poorer beer. I m not sure if its supermarkets not storing them at correct temps or I m not even sure if its my taste buds not working too well. We have a decent range of craft beer here though it tends to be the more recognizable breweries, anybody notice the same.

Couple of things at play here

Yep there is an issue with quality of Irish produced beer I guesstimate there is 30% crap out there which originates from the following problem areas;
1 Poor Formulation or a brewery or brewer that has no clue as to what they are doing doesn't use tasting panels or listen to feedback
2 Poor or odd Ingredients, where they are purchased, how they are handled, and or stored and their freshness
3 Sanitation in general
4 Process in general
5 Bottling and Contract bottling   
6 Ageing BBD and or Retail handling/storage at ambient temperatures

Seems simple doesn't it and yet   >:(

I am delighted to say that I have yet to come across a brewery out there making crap where the head brewer was previously a good homebrewer.

Let the brewery know your disappointment, help them try and identify the problem.

I did the last time it happened and they seemed happy to know. I LL do so again after tonight. I guess its only inevitable that not all Irish craft beer will be sensational but would be a real shame if peoples experience of craft beer was not what it could be. Maybe we need to ensure breweries are actually 'doing it for the love of it' unlike some of their distant cousins

I don't think loyalty comes into it.. if a brewery, or any company for that matter, makes a bad product, you're not disloyal because you vote with your feet. Bad beer is bad beer and market forces will hopefully sort those producers out in good time.

I get the impression that a lot of breweries that have been set up in the last couple of years were done so by accountants or entrepreneurs with little clue about beer. Some of it is just so bland. This is not doing the industry any favours as some people will taste craft and wonder what all the fuss is about.

Other problem is as homebrewers we can outbrew any of the pros as we have no budget constraints and in a lot of instances fresher ingredients.

This stuff is being charged for at a premium rate and the least you should expect is that the producers have tasted each batch prior to sending it to market. If there's an issue with packaging then this should be resolved, but how many even test the DO level before and after packaging? The market is flooded at the moment and the sooner the poorer producers are removed, then the more confidence customers/consumers will have for it, and hopefully sales will increase for those remaining. The poor producers are giving everyone else a bad name and thereby restricting sales of the better producers.
In many supermarkets there's a bewildering choice for the uninitiated and if the first beer they try is crap, then they won't be back.
If their beer is good then they deserve loyalty but if it isnt and they haven't bothered testing it properly before selling it then they deserve the same loyalty that they are showing to their consumers.....none

I have to confess I buy very little Irish craft for the same reasons, along with the hugely inflated prices in bars. These days, I'll more likely get a Belgian bottle if I'm out, as I know where I stand and quite a few times it's been cheaper!

I think you can tell when a brewery expands how serious they are. Good brewers get better with expansion and bad brewers get worse.

I think packaging and handling is the biggest issue though. Doesn't matter how well you brew if its not bottled/canned with care and then its left out on a shelf for a couple of weeks its not going to taste great. Thats one of the best things about homebrewing, you have full control over the beer from start to finish. Soon as we keg a beer it can straight in the fridge.

I've also cut back on the amount of bottles Irish stuff for much the same reason. I hate when you hear about a new beer release on twitter or facebook and you hunt it down only to have to dump it because it either tastes old or has a major off flavor. I find its happening a lot more often these days. There are breweries I love but unfortunately avoid their bottles because they are hit or miss most of the time.

Quote from: Sorcerers Apprentice on December 10, 2016, 11:58:41 AM
This stuff is being charged for at a premium rate

Nail. Head.

Unfortunately you pay that premium solely because small producers don't have economies of scale.

Guinness FES and Francis Big Banging are first class and cost a lot less than the output of smaller operations.

I also suspect people are getting more sophisticated / less easily impressed.



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Same here with myself. I still will buy some Irish brewers beers but some of the brewery's I ignore now as I have had just too many dodgy beers from them. Some of them want feedback but others don't as they think they know best and the person complaining is wrong or just doesn't understand ???.

If their own organisation that's their to represent them doesn't deal with it then some of them are doomed to eventually go the road of the Dodo  :(

Yes, price is another sore point for a lot of craft drinkers now. Myself and molc both ordered a pint of Althea from a GBB bar recently and we both looked in bewilderment at the lack of small change thrust into our hands by the barman. If memory serves, it was 6.50 for a pint.. this is a sub 4.5% beer folks.... I don't care how much hops are in it, or how hipster it is.. that's fucking gouging, pure and simple. And as nice as it is, I won't be ordering any more of it.

I think it's about time individual breweries, bars and beers are named when we see bad product or simply bad value. Twitter seems to be awash with fanboys and fangirls who self combust with praise every time an Irish craft brewer so much as farts in a glass. I think more honest critique is needed.

I couldn't believe the glowing reviews of this year's RDS fest on social media. I thought a lot of the beers I had were dreadful, but maybe I just chose badly. I had a sour that no other dimension than acid, a grapefruit ipa that didn't actually taste like beer, a pale ale that tasted like plastic. I sometimes wonder what a GABF or IndyMan regular would think of the quality here. Some home brewers simply can't taste serious faults in their own beers; you'd expect the pros to be able to do so, but it isn't happening in some cases.

Credit where it's due though, there are a few breweries that are doing a good consistent job. O'Haras and 8 Degrees have a really consistent level of quality (due to size maybe?) and Metalman pale ale and Galway Hooker is still always a welcome sight on the bar to me. Simple beers done well. And Kinnegar beers are always great.

Very similar discussion on Beoir at the moment - http://www.beoir.org/community/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11404

Quote from: Bubbles on December 10, 2016, 04:30:51 PM
Yes, price is another sore point for a lot of craft drinkers now. Myself and molc both ordered a pint of Althea from a GBB bar recently and we both looked in bewilderment at the lack of small change thrust into our hands by the barman. If memory serves, it was 6.50 for a pint.. this is a sub 4.5% beer folks.... I don't care how much hops are in it, or how hipster it is.. that's fucking gouging, pure and simple.

Yup the month before I got a fresh bottle of Le Chouffe for less at the meet. Beautiful beer that was worth the less money.

Quote from: mr hoppy on December 10, 2016, 02:40:45 PMI also suspect people are getting more sophisticated / less easily impressed

Definitely. I remember being happy when the first craft tap in the town hit our local and I was delighted with it but now I wont drink beer from that brewery unless I have to.

Quote from: Bubbles on December 10, 2016, 04:30:51 PMCredit where it's due though, there are a few breweries that are doing a good consistent job. O'Haras and 8 Degrees have a really consistent level of quality (due to size maybe?) and Metalman pale ale and Galway Hooker is still always a welcome sight on the bar to me. Simple beers done well. And Kinnegar beers are always great.

I think Metalman is a brewery thats gone downhill. I used to love that pale ale but I think its changed too much.

Quote from: molc on December 10, 2016, 05:11:04 PM

Quote from: Bubbles on December 10, 2016, 04:30:51 PM
Yes, price is another sore point for a lot of craft drinkers now. Myself and molc both ordered a pint of Althea from a GBB bar recently and we both looked in bewilderment at the lack of small change thrust into our hands by the barman. If memory serves, it was 6.50 for a pint.. this is a sub 4.5% beer folks.... I don't care how much hops are in it, or how hipster it is.. that's fucking gouging, pure and simple.

Yup the month before I got a fresh bottle of Le Chouffe for less at the meet. Beautiful beer that was worth the less money.

And crucially also.. it's brewed and bottled by gbb and served directly in their own pubs! The markup must be huge, I don't get it.. must be plenty of eejits like myself that are willing to buy it.

Quote from: Qs on December 10, 2016, 05:17:19 PM

Quote from: mr hoppy on December 10, 2016, 02:40:45 PMI also suspect people are getting more sophisticated / less easily impressed

Definitely. I remember being happy when the first craft tap in the town hit our local and I was delighted with it but now I wont drink beer from that brewery unless I have to.

Quote from: Bubbles on December 10, 2016, 04:30:51 PMCredit where it's due though, there are a few breweries that are doing a good consistent job. O'Haras and 8 Degrees have a really consistent level of quality (due to size maybe?) and Metalman pale ale and Galway Hooker is still always a welcome sight on the bar to me. Simple beers done well. And Kinnegar beers are always great.

I think Metalman is a brewery thats gone downhill. I used to love that pale ale but I think its changed too much.

That would be a pity.

I wasn't that impressed with the cans of MM that I bought a few months ago, but I figured they might be a bit old.

I get a little frustrated as a member of Beoir sometimes as an Irish craft beer consumer group, I know they do a few bits but could do so much more to educate the public and the Brewers btw!
I know a lot of that revolves around who wants to do it.
Anyway listening to the sentiment here why don't we say here who makes good and bad beer maybe in the members area
Not sure info should be in full open public domain as it's a Breweries livelihood but it's our members money that is being wasted in drainpour beers.
Maybe what we could do is for everybody to get a specified bottle and we do live tasting sessions on say a Weds, if it's nasty our less experienced members could learn off flavours?
Any thoughts?

At Brewcon 2 years ago uniquely the female panelist I believe she was from Metalman stated that they don't experiment with pilot brews but go straight for full production on new recipes. From memory I think she said that they knew instinctively what would work, that has to be a recipe for disaster.

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Sorry ch we were typing at the same time. I think your suggestion is already happening on WhatsApp in guys rating beer 👍 or 👎or maybe that's just Liffey Brewers?

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Live tastings is a great idea CH

I think that's a great idea CH! Would get people trying more interesting beers as well - part if what the club is about!

A good excuse to drink midweek too.

Ok just posted a few thoughts there in members area, probably best to keep it fluid to start and see what works best as long as we all share our taste thoughts and experiences.

I recently had 2 beers which were a bit "off", one was just yeast debris which hadn't dropped out so beer was drinkable. Other was an infection so down the sink.  I sent both a message on Facebook. The brewery with the yeast couriered out a 4 pack of beer as an apology the next day. Amazing customer service. The other apologized and said they would look into it, never heard anything after that.

Drinking a pint of Rebel Red in a pub in Kildare. God, this beer is a pale imitation of its former self.  Thin, tasteless, dull. Will be avoiding in future.

Had it in fowlers couple of months back with NCB lads it was piss

Maybe they're trying to tempt the Smithwicks drinkers with something resembling dishwater..?

Sorry I should have put that first statement in context, I was privileged to taste it in Fran Well in my early craft beer drinking days.

As much as I enjoyed it back in the day, I never thought it was much of an Irish Red, at least not as far as the BJCP definition is concerned. It was more like a caramelly bitter. Not much of the dry roasty finish that the BJCP mention as being typical of the style. I also remember it being a lot paler than it is currently. Maybe the recipe is being changed by Molson to be more in line with the American perception of an Irish Red? Just a thought..

It's being changed to be shite, that's all I care :)

I commented on twitter about my disappointment of the beer one brewery produced and I got a nasty response back from them even their fan boys went to town on me. All because I didn't like their beer.

This response didn't sit too well with me at the time and I responded poorly.

Personally i would prefer to get honest feedback and engage the consumer rather than berating them.

The whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth (no pun intended)

What was the problem? What did you say? Curious as to how they responded

I said that I was disappointed in their beer after hearing so much about them. It really was rather benign. I'd rather not open a can of worms but let's just say their reply was far from professional. What bothered me was the amount of abuse I got from their fans and some of their staff. I had to block some users and make my account private eventually because of the backlash

Care to link to the tweet? I'm very interested to know which brewery it was..

Craft beer in Ireland tends to be a bit cultish. Personally I don't share my feedback unless I know the brewer in question as most treat it as a pr assault rather than constructive feedback.

To be fair, feedback is probably better in a private functions rather than twitter, simply due to visibility and "optics"

People take to social media all the time to highlight a bad meal in a restaurant, an overpriced cup of coffee, bad service in a shop etc. Good or bad, that's the world we live in now. I don't see why the craft beer industry in Ireland should be immune to criticism.

I think go with your gut.
@Mick02, always good to note the batch and where purchased to back up any claim.
That is bad form from any brewer and a poor reflection of them as business people and as beer lovers.

As I said, it all got a little out of hand and was built up to be more than it was by both sides.

It was over 6 months ago so plenty of water under the bridge.

It will make me think twice about posting an opinion on a public forum again (which is a little sad but there you go). In fact I was asked to give some honest feedback about a beer lately and it made me feel pretty uncomfortable.

Personally i want to know what is wrong with my beer not what's right. If you only ever get positive feedback then how are you meant to improve?

Even if the beer was perfect you need to accept not everyone is going to like your beer.  Fan boys coming after you is one thing but the brewery should be above it.

I gave a local beer a bad review on untappd a while ago and said I'd had better service than not of the same beer and got a PM from one of the lads at the brewery asking where I had it, what was off,  etc Then he thanked me for my feedback. That's much more like what I expect.

You can guess which of these breweries are most likely to be successful. The quicker breweries realise that their beer is judged in comparison with its own taste and reputation rather than others, the better it will be for them. At the end of the day our philosophy when homebrewing is usually to brew the best tasting beer we can each time and to keep improving it, not to brew something that's just ok and survive on the fact that once upon a time people realised this was better than macro beer.

Exactly. The Irish market is growing up, people are much more discerning now and rightly so, we have a lot more options.