Just throwing this out there for any thoughts anyone would have...
What about a paid membership whereby you get something like discounts on group buys and discounts from various homebrew and/or beer retailers?
+1
I'm all up for discounts, me !
Quote
What about a paid membership whereby you get something like discounts on group buys and discounts from various homebrew and/or beer retailers?
Paid membership is long overdue to pay for the electrons that run the forum :D
Small enough that you more than make up for it by being a member, after all we're all skinflints making stuff ourselves rather than paying for it!
How much is the Beoir membership? Being the CAMRA snob that I am, I am more than positive about the benefits that a paid membership could bring to the NHC, and its members of course. Beer festivals, beer discount tokens, yearly (or monthly) printed magazines etc etc etc
QuoteWhat sort of figure so?
So about 140 members at €100 a year would give us about a 14k budget for shinny SS boilers/HLTs/fermenters/mash tuns and the like that could be leased back to the members.
Alternatively, what about a €10'er a year
Will
How about a €5. Max €10. I suppose local clubs may also charge if they need to for rent etc. You'd make that back in no time from discounts elsewhere.
€5 to €10 is what I feel should be the cost of this. It's not alot of money but some people can get worked up with even paying anything,so being able to show that you are getting more than a fuzzy feeling for paying it is necessary. Without any income,we will not be able to do things.
I think paying makes it more serious, anyone can join a free club, as a result they don't get taken seriously. The same argument that was made for Beoir payments, you need paid memberships to have a voice and be taken seriously.
To get something would be a bonus, I'm not that pushed, if meetings were only at weekends, I'd be happy with that.
Yeah, I did get a PM, but it appears that the event is when the money is no longer there for play....that's my other issue.
Second child on the way, one income, there are other priorities for the cash and we already caned it last weekend with a meal in the Bull & Castle and a stay in Juries for the weekend. :(
Quote€5 to €10 is what I feel should be the cost of this. It's not alot of money but some people can get worked up with even paying anything,so being able to show that you are getting more than a fuzzy feeling for paying it is necessary. Without any income,we will not be able to do things.
Another UK forum (Not Beer related) I am on has voluntary contributions and a tag line showing of 60stg every month how far they have progressed, amazing thing is they hit the target fairly early on every month and today they are at 30 of 60 today. Big numbers on the site though.
They also have a little status bar or tags beside user profile statement saying "I support this forum". They refresh them every year. They have a policy of not receiving monies from suppliers or promotion of any of their wares to keep themselves independent.
Personally for smaller forums I think this is very hard and direct membership contributions in NHC case for say €10 are best.
I think membership is something the club should charge.
After all not everything comes for free.
As long as everything is transparent I dont think anyone would expect NOT to pay a small membership.
You save it back on one bag of malt.
With a few quid in the bank it makes it a lot easier to organise things like competitions - with out having to worry if buying a promotional banner and a few posters is going to put us in th red :P
I'd be a little coy about membership - my experience is that when things are free - everyones interested - when it costs a tenner - you can expect a 90% drop rate.
I'd let the membership (free) build up for about a year and then consider it.
But on the more positive side - I love the idea of getting something for the membership - like vouchers or additional group buy discounts.
Just my opinion
Eoin, really sorry but I clicked Modify instead of reply and accidentally deleted your post. Does anyone have Eoin's post on their screen so I can paste it back? - Tube
No worries, it was more that I was just thinking of why there can't be a paid section and a non-paid section, let the payment show it's value and then see who joins up, that simple.
I'm thinking the architects section is more like a mod or admin area, not the same really.
just put some perks with payment, I see it working on other forums where there is zero to no real life interaction so it could surely work here with real meetings and events etc from which non-payers would in some cases be excluded.
Maybe if people want to get involved in the buys they should pay the fee. Having said that most Ntaional clubs have a fee system. ....AHA is $38, CBA in the Uk is £15. They do come with a magazine and are much bigger but we are only beginning. Perhaps a fiver is right but a tenner would mean we could nearly have enough to run a national competition every year without a huge sponsor ...if everyone paid up. It is a tricky one. Anyone a member of a Gaa club or rugby club? How much are they paying there?
QuoteQuoteI'm thinking the architects section is more like a mod or admin area, not the same really.
Oops, that's not the message meant to be conveyed. The Architects are really the steering Committee. There is no mod or admin discussion there.
Otoh the mods are known as Master Brewers, but we're not organised labour :)
No oops, I've not paid much attention so more down to me I'd imagine.
fair enough but I think there should be some benefits of being a paid up member, as said anyone can join a free club, there is no commitment.
My 2 Cents worth.... I have no problem throwing a tenner into a pot - I did the same on the other site, really not for any actual return - but I figured I was (and still am) getting a lot from it, and to throw in the tenner to help support it was in my mind a good investment, likewise here, I know it's free but if an optional members fee of a tenner was put out there with or without members discounts/incentives - I'd probably have no issue with joining, of course things like the discounts and what not are an added incentive - but at the same time if you were to restrict access to members only and this 90% drop rate occurred - it would be to the detriment of everyone and the site/club itself
I reckon for every group buy - you could have a members - non members price and the same for the merchandise and what not and that in itself gives visibility
I would also think that if the price of membership was to go above a tenner - then I would have to give real consideration to the incentives and perks that came with it before I signed up ( I mean to say that would be eating into my monthly brewing budget then !!)
QuoteQuoteI would also think that if the price of membership was to go above a tenner - then I would have to give real consideration to the incentives and perks
What if it was €20, but entitled you to €5 discount per bag of malt in the group buys, and a discount on basically everything else brewing-related you bought?
How would you work the discounts, I think you complicate the group buys massively by giving seperate discount levels, it'll become an administrative nightmare, and the fee would subsidise the difference or what? I think that's a hard one you're considering, hard to admin and hard for it to be fair.
What if we got a few sponsors on board with banner ads at the top and charge less for membership and those who are members pay one price and those who are not pay a euro or two more per group buy item...or something along those lines...
QuoteWhat if it was €20, but entitled you to €5 discount per bag of malt in the group buys, and a discount on basically everything else brewing-related you bought
probably - yeah - I mean at that point it is the discounts that are the reason for subscribing - based against the cost of membership - - the tenner in my mind would have been just viewed as something like a voluntary donation to help keep things running. but like Eoin said:
Quotethe fee would subsidise the difference ?
would you really pull in that much money to subsidise a fiver for each group buy for members
there seems to have been an explosion of Group Buys since the launch of the site !!!!
Anyway - I should probably not be sticking my nose in here - one of the reasons I haven't signed up for Architects Role is I'm not a very organized,driven,imaginative or financially minded person that and I don't always have the time !
I do know that in my job the S&S club always have a members & non members price for any events they put on and subsidize the members price, but they have volume on their side if you get my meaning
anyway - I guess even having this out in the open for discussion is quiet a positive step !!!
* edit * not pushing for the tenner price - at 20 quid with the higher discount than the tenner would get its not a bad offer I guess - I suppose going over the score- then for me it's getting into pricey territory
Also - how are you getting the name & time into your quotes from posts??)
QuoteQuoteWhat if we got a few sponsors on board with banner ads at the top and charge less for membership and those who are members pay one price and those who are not pay a euro or two more per group buy item...or something along those lines...
This sounds good to me.
We already have Another 9's logo at the bottom of the Wordpress site (and we'd have it on the forum too if it were that simple), and in exchange for that we get world class hosting. There's a cost that the members don't have to pay.
Time to hit Diageo for some € :P
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat if we got a few sponsors on board with banner ads at the top and charge less for membership and those who are members pay one price and those who are not pay a euro or two more per group buy item...or something along those lines...
This sounds good to me.
We already have Another 9's logo at the bottom of the Wordpress site (and we'd have it on the forum too if it were that simple), and in exchange for that we get world class hosting. There's a cost that the members don't have to pay.
Time to hit Diageo for some € :P
You reckon they'd pay us to stop?
QuoteQuote
Also - how are you getting the name & time into your quotes from posts??)
Press the quote button. The bit after Quote from: and before is important.
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ahh that bloody quote button !!!!!! Ive been using the little one on the Reply box !!!
QuoteQuoteAnyone a member of a Gaa club or rugby club?
Local GAA club is €40 basic membership.
That will cover insurance for the year as well .
Talks of €20 are frighting me. You would really have to see what you were getting for it. I paid Beoir a tenner with a nod and a wink to the "benefits" to be had, I wont be doing it next year.
This could be dangerous territory for something so new
I've had more value out of my NHC free membership than out of my Beoir paid membership.
No problem with a NHC paid membership.
Like the idea of both free and paid, with the latter getting a few more benefits.
QuoteIt is a tricky one. Anyone a member of a Gaa club or rugby club? How much are they paying there?
Not being elitist here but the Malahide Rugby Club is reckonned to be the MOST expensive club in .ie
Social membership €80 !! Full member €300 :'(
I think a tenner is about right
Will
QuoteShould we do a family membership rate? ;)
That'll set you back €330 in MRFC
No effin wonder we are struggling for members!
Will
I like newToBrew's idea of a group-buy price for members and non-members or a discount off merchandise. Shows something tangeable for your money I think.
Same thing works in my work social club. When something good like paintballing or go-karting comes up loads of people sign up for their fiver a month and don't go to anything for another year or 2. They spent more than they saved with the member/non-member price but feel like they got a good deal.
Not sure how practical that is with group buys though as sometimes the price is fluid depending on the up-take & splitting delivery costs....but I'd be fine with contributing to the NHC. Like some people have already said I reckon I got more from here for free than my tenner elsewhere.
With regard to group buys, rather than having one price for members and another for non members, which IMO, could lead to confusion, charge a flat rate of a euro or two for non members for all group buys. (call it a "club development fee")
what about adding a % on group buys as a revenue raising action to keep fees low.
I don't mind paying a "reasonable" membership subscription for NHC, but believe that membership should have it's benefits... in another club i'm in, a tenner a year gets discounts more than a tenner's worth, and that's the hook to get new members signed up.
I also feel we should try keep onboard those already signed-up here on the free NHC, especially newbie and born-again kit brewers like myself, who probably are undecided what direction their hobby will go in, and who are holding off making the big equipment buys to move on to extract and AG until they see the merits...
What about percentage discounts on group buy's etc. to members, would that be easier than a specific cash discount, although I thought every price on group buys is cut to the bone already?
Great to see a debate on this BTW
Is Mise
Quotealthough I thought every price on group buys is cut to the bone already?
Is Mise
I reckon it would be a case of sticking on a few bob to none members, rather than making it cheaper for members, like you say the prices on the group buys are super as it is
The way the club is going we will eventually need some form of structure and executive positions.
With the upcomming NHC competition then I can see the need for a financial controller to oversee the moneys involved and produce a balance sheet for the competition.
So we will need a treasurer. Its also normal to have a chair and a secretary. So as we are a democratic organisation then we have to have elections ( these have to held under the rules of a constitution ).
In order to be eligible to vote you would have to be paid up member of NHC.
Sorry to bring this pedantic stuff up but if we don't think this through we will be in a mess later on
Will
I'm another single income household here, the reason I got into homebrewing was the idea of saving money (lol - waiting for that to pay off, but enjoying the ride!). Like many other contributors I'm sure, my monthly finances are worked out to the cent.
I have paid the €10 membership to Beoir, I was happy with all of the advice I got when I was starting out. I'd be happy to pay the tenner here too considering the support, the benefits and the comradery that is provided. If its any higher, I think it would become one of those "I'll do that next month" charges which unfortunately could be put off indefinitely. Particularly when oil, esb etc keep going up.
As for adding it to the group buy, its an idea but again it would restrict my purchases. I like the idea of this site being a cooperative of sorts - we are putting our euros together to get more power. That being said, overheads are overheads.
I see a ten euro per annum charge being fair - but that figure should be reviewed at the AGM next year when we weigh out the pros and cons of the previous 12 months.
Finally - for those of you still reading - with the emergence of craft beer bars all around the city, would it be an idea to approach one or two bars with the idea of a reduced pint rate for NHBC members? For instance, Messers Maguires sells pints for €4, they must have a workable margin on that. If we were to produce a NHBC membership card at the bar, we could get a pint for €3.50. My brother has a Cafe En Sienne membership card, we often end up going there purely for the fact that with this card, pints are dirt cheap.
QuoteQuote
QuoteWith the upcomming NHC competition then I can see the need for a financial controller to oversee the moneys involved and produce a balance sheet for the competition.
This we definitely will. I'm hoping Padraic, who will soon be ACCA, might volunteer! :)
I don't think he'd do a very good job!
QuoteQuoteQuote
QuoteWith the upcomming NHC competition then I can see the need for a financial controller to oversee the moneys involved and produce a balance sheet for the competition.
This we definitely will. I'm hoping Padraic, who will soon be ACCA, might volunteer! :)
I don't think he'd do a very good job!
I thought he volunteered already :o In fact I think I took the liberty of recording that conversation [smiley=evil.gif]
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I too would like to see some deal done with retailers (i.e. pubs) where we send customers their way and those customers get a small discount.
Who do you think is most likely to go for this? I'm speculating here but wouldn't the pubs with their own brands be most likely to do it? Would it be worth trying the Porter House?
Or would Bull and Castle try it for a while?
I know it's a completely different kettle of fish over there but alot of the real ale pubs back where i was in England would offer 20p off a pint of real ale/cider to card carrying CAMRA members and the local branch magazine would list said pubs. (we need a magazine or print out *cough* *cough*)
QuoteQuote(we need a magazine or print out *cough* *cough*)
I think this is a great idea (then again I usually do!). Can you put one together yourself? If you need help with stuff just ask.
I look forward to seeing it too Cara! :)
I'd be more interested in discounts on homebrewing supplies rather than drinks but I'd have no problems with any drinks discounts that come our way.
QuoteQuoteQuote(we need a magazine or print out *cough* *cough*)
I think this is a great idea (then again I usually do!). Can you put one together yourself? If you need help with stuff just ask.
I look forward to seeing it too Cara! :)
I'd be more interested in discounts on homebrewing supplies rather than drinks but I'd have no problems with any drinks discounts that come our way.
+1 on the supplies, that allows us non dubs avail of any benifits as well
yeah - I'm more into the fact that the focus here is mostly on the hombrew side of things , supplies - savings info sharing & whatnot - don't see myself headin to the pale anytime soon for a cheap pint !!!
..... will we need referendums to change the constitution ??
Careful or Tube will appoint you referendum's officer.
Come up with an idea here and suddenly it's your job ;D
QuoteCareful or Tube will appoint you referendum's officer.
Come up with an idea here and suddenly it's your job ;D
It's not idea's we need it's solutions! (yes he has indoctrinated me :))
dunno - I wouldn't trust me !! - I'm renowned for my bad constitution !!!
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote(we need a magazine or print out *cough* *cough*)
I think this is a great idea (then again I usually do!). Can you put one together yourself? If you need help with stuff just ask.
I look forward to seeing it too Cara! :)
I'd be more interested in discounts on homebrewing supplies rather than drinks but I'd have no problems with any drinks discounts that come our way.
+1 on the supplies, that allows us non dubs avail of any benifits as well
Yeah i'm sure I could rustle something together, it would be very very rough though but it would be a base to go off of at least, I'm off to Tullamore Distillery on Tues but im off on Wednesday so will chuck something together.
With regards "non-dubs" availing of discounts etc, we are the 'National' Homebrew Club so the idea would be to approach publicans/suppliers country wide.
Quotewe are the 'National' Homebrew Club so the idea would be to approach publicans/suppliers country wide.
I can just see it
"Willie, if you give me cheep pints I'll come to your pub, theres another lad that lives 20 miles away, he'll be in at least once a year for cheap beer too"
It's a win win.
ah come on we're only chattin a few cent off a pint like a'la the 20p a pint CAMRA yoke. Its more to do with supporting the promotion of craft by offering incentives for both the publican and the consumer hence the mentions in club publications of pubs which are offering said incentives. Small steps etc
QuoteQuotealthough I thought every price on group buys is cut to the bone already?
Is Mise
I reckon it would be a case of sticking on a few bob to none members, rather than making it cheaper for members, like you say the prices on the group buys are super as it is
Let me add my vote to this way of doing it. The inducement is that members get group buys at the cheapest possible price and nonmembers get it at the cheapest possible plus a couple of euro. We can work up to magazines and deals with pubs etc in time. It's early days yet.
Quoteah come on we're only chattin a few cent off a pint like a'la the 20p a pint CAMRA yoke. Its more to do with supporting the promotion of craft by offering incentives for both the publican and the consumer hence the mentions in club publications of pubs which are offering said incentives. Small steps etc
I'm failing to see why something like this should be in the remit of the NHC. Sure, we all support craft beer, but NHC is all about brewing, right? Group buy benefits on the other hand directly benefit homebrewers.
Quote
I'm failing to see why something like this should be in the remit of the NHC. Sure, we all support craft beer, but NHC is all about brewing, right? Group buy benefits on the other hand directly benefit homebrewers.
I'd have to + 1 on on this comment - I like that fact that on this site ( in this club) the focus is really on the home brewing and not so much the whole pub/craft beer movement do-da - not dissing that but, i guess for me my interest is in brewing more so than pestering publicans to get in some new beers, or gimmie a discount the odd time I get to go out these days
Don't get me wrong - I've been pestering publicans for years but it's more along the lines of - you know - let me back in I'll be good this time I swear, Or just one more drink - go on - no-ones lookin - i'll go home after this one I promise...... Or it wasn't me this time !!
QuoteQuote
I'm failing to see why something like this should be in the remit of the NHC. Sure, we all support craft beer, but NHC is all about brewing, right? Group buy benefits on the other hand directly benefit homebrewers.
I'd have to + 1 on on this comment - I like that fact that on this site ( in this club) the focus is really on the home brewing and not so much the whole pub/craft beer movement do-da - not dissing that but, i guess for me my interest is in brewing more so than pestering publicans to get in some new beers, or gimmie a discount the odd time I get to go out these days
Don't get me wrong - I've been pestering publicans for years but it's more along the lines of - you know - let me back in I'll be good this time I swear, Or just one more drink - go on - no-ones lookin - i'll go home after this one I promise...... Or it wasn't me this time !!
I quite agree this club is about home brewing good beers.
There is already a Irish craft beer appreciation group that is more akin to Camera than we are.
Does Camera have a home brewing section??
Will
I don't think asking for discounts from pubs is a route we should go down. It has caused a fair bit of bad feeling towards CAMRA in the UK where some publicans have complained of members flashing their cards demanding a discount. I am not suggesting it would happen but we have just started out we don't need a bad image off the bat.
It could be interpreted as "give us a discount or we drink in your competitors pub". What do you do if the publican takes the suggestion badly? How comfortable would you be going to the B&C if Geoff saw it that way?
Discounts like this should be offered rather than sought.
That should be worth about 2c ;D
I am not really interest in pub discount's. I think it's best to focus on homebrew matters and related stuff. If a pub wants to reach out to us as a club with offers than I would say "Hi,my name is Brian,Brian Dempsey". :)
QuoteI am not really interest in pub discount's. I think it's best to focus on homebrew matters and related stuff. If a pub wants to reach out to us as a club with offers than I would say "Hi,my name is Brian,Brian Dempsey". :)
Agreed.
We are a home brewing club there should be no need to drink in pubs!!
Howeve we all need to pop in to the pub on the odd days just to check on what our brewing gods are making.
I am happy to do this but would not like to pressure pubs into a HBC discount scheme. Most craft beer pubs are probably not flush with spare cash at the moment.
They know we are home brewers and are not going to spend all our cash with them.
Will
QuoteOk, I had just negotiated a deal with a chain of pubs and a nationwide chain of hardware shops.
Shall I tell them we're not interested as neither are homebrew related?
Surely we all go to hardware shops for our bits and pieces
Who runs a chain of pubs?
Will
For what its worth, I personally support the craft brew scene in Ireland and the real-ale scene in UK. I believe the work that camra and the likes of the porterhouse has done to promote real beer and tackle the shit Diagio and Heineken have been poisoning us with deserves a lot of respect.
I say take the discount and give them some business; they are still making their mark up and glad of the business.
All that keeping in mind that most people are brewing style and flavours produced by the hard work of the craft brewers large and small in Ireland and beyond. On this basis networking between homebrewers and craft pubs is a good marketing tool for all involved.
Quote
And we all go to pubs for our pints too... but if you don't want any sort of discount that's fine. :P
Errmm, where's the back-pedal?
Being Welsh we never ever say no to a gift-horse.
Bring them on I say
As you all know the Eskimoes have 30 different words for snow, well the Welsh have about 30 for "freebees"
Will
I'm all for discounts as well.I think we will do better if we can get discounts from Hardware Stores and maybe Homebrew Shops.Discount from pubs will only benefit some.I'm not going to drive 20 miles to get a pint on discount.
Flanagan:
Silken Thomas, Cunninghams, Browns Barn, and a few Others, their house staple is Tom Creans from Dingle brewing
And dosnt Porterhouse own Lilies bordello as well, dont be surprised who owns what, hotels included.
QuoteThere are several pub chains... but they just operate under different names. The B&C, the Brew Dock, L. Mulligan, the Lucan County, are all part of multi-pub companies.
And we all go to pubs for our pints too... but if you don't want any sort of discount that's fine. :P
My point was that it's not a priority but any discounts we can get are very welcome!
Quote
I am happy to do this but would not like to pressure pubs into a HBC discount scheme. Most craft beer pubs are probably not flush with spare cash at the moment.
They know we are home brewers and are not going to spend all our cash with them.
I would disagree that most of them aren't making money, all the figures say that the craft beer sector is where the money is at.
Just because one brews their own does not mean that they don't spend money on research. I'm sure I spend more money on craft beer than on homebrewing.
RE frugality:
If you were trying to bring in new customers who hated parting with their hard earned cash what better way than a small discount?
I feel pretty strongly about this and would never ask for discount in a pub.
I dont see what it has to do with homebrewing and would be disapointed to see the NHC go ahead with this
Woodie's or the like?
I dont deal with them anyway as I find them very overpriced, I support local plumber's merchants and ebay ;)
A voucher scheme would be better than flashing a card, but it's something that doesnt really sit right with me.
I wouldnt be one to go redeaming vouchers in supermarkets either.
Maybe if it was to become a reality I might get used to it, but I dont know
QuoteHow would you feel about a chain of hardware shops?
they're alright - but I wouldn't eat a full one !!
QuoteYou've no objection?
So suppose you were coming up to the big smoke for a night, you'd not be keen on having a few "50c off a pint" vouchers in your pocket?
I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been in Love/Hateland for a pint in the last decade, so I am still failing to see the relevance of this for a "National" "Homebrew" Club
Never said object..... fail to see the relevance (to anything non-hombrew related).
Sound idea Shane
Will
QuoteHad an idea today as regards membership pricing:
€10 membership gets you "discounts" (i.e. club margin is very small) on group buys and most other benefits.
€15 gets you Executive membership which will give you all of the above and voting rights and a place on the committee.
If in the previous 12 months you have: e.g. organised a group buy, written an article, organised a meet, done a demo, or anything that helps progress the club you get Executive membership for free for the following 12 months as a thank you.
Thoughts?
I think we need to be real careful about membership - I'd cool the jets until after the competition - money will scare people away.
The discounts in pubs is a little cheap / not homebrew related - however discounts on group buys is different -thats the tree i'd be barking up.
Its something we do have to address for sure - and I'd dont disagree with you at all - but I (like yourself) want to maximise the membership and the interest.
For what it's worth, I think that pubs that already serve the kind of beer we'd be looking to purchase, i.e. craft beer, already do enough.
I think the whole idea of buying a craft beer is that you know where your money is going. You know that even though it sometimes might be more expensive, your going to enjoy it that bit more (a)because it tastes better and (b)because you know you have helped the brewer first of all, and the publican who chose to go out on a limb and sell the beer in the first place.
Would have no objections to a nominal membership fee though.
QuoteHad an idea today as regards membership pricing:
€10 membership gets you "discounts" (i.e. club margin is very small) on group buys and most other benefits.
€15 gets you Executive membership which will give you all of the above and voting rights and a place on the committee.
If in the previous 12 months you have: e.g. organised a group buy, written an article, organised a meet, done a demo, or anything that helps progress the club you get Executive membership for free for the following 12 months as a thank you.
Thoughts?
How about €0.00 to become a member, view and contribute to posts -that way you get more people signed up
€10 membership gets you access to NHC express, Group Buys, any of the Regional Communities plus what Tube said.
€15 gets you all of the above plus Executive membership