National Homebrew Club Ireland

Hi All,

I clean all my equipment with W3 OXI from lidl, ive also used pbw, and its a great product, but expensive.

Has anyone made their own pbw? Ive looked around and came across a mix of
65% Oxiclean with 30% TSP and 5%  EDTA by weight.

The w5 stuff in purple tub yellow cap yeah? Shifts everything out of my carboys, masssjve rinse and then SS

Yup thats the stuff, i use loads of it too, but its short a chelating agent
This is why PBW doesn't cause scale on your equipment, even with hard water. Oxi unfortunately does not contain a chelating agent.
EDTA (Ethylenediaminetetraacetic Acid, try saying that after a few pints) is a commonly used industrial chelator.

I'm on very soft water so not really a problem can you use SS afterwards to remove the scale?

thanks for that CH

If you have hard water in your area, collect rain water for using with oxi.

Massive rinse using domestic water after using rainwater though

Differently massive rinse with domestic water after and then ss

Quote from: aweisse on December 14, 2016, 07:14:01 PM
65% Oxiclean with 30% TSP and 5%  EDTA by weight.

TSP?

These lads have EDTA, free shipping too by the looks of it:

https://mistralni.co.uk/products/edta-ethylenediaminetetraacetic-acid-dissolvine-z

TSP is trisodium phosphate, a cleaning agent.

same company has it https://mistralni.co.uk/products/chlorinated-trisodium-phosphate-tsp

Vermelho and myself were making up our own "PBW" there. Mixing oxyclean with sodium metasilicate. 70:30 ratio. Really does the trick!

Highly recommend MistralNi for some of my more esoteric needs  >:D

Jaysus lads be careful with the bucket chemistry on cleaning products, I've seen what farmers mixes can do to plastic

Just rereading some of the stuff online there and noticed the homebrew pbw recipe on HBT and brutus brewery mentions using tsp/90 which is an American product that is sodium metasilicate and not actual TSP

https://youtu.be/z0kktJJSBQE

best being careful with mistral

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17554173

Fooking hell Will!

Quote from: armedcor on December 14, 2016, 10:15:00 PM
Vermelho and myself were making up our own "PBW" there. Mixing oxyclean with sodium metasilicate. 70:30 ratio. Really does the trick!

Ill give that a go in the new year.

Chemicals and me have decided it's best we stay apart :) I'll stick with W5 oxi :D

Quote from: aweisse on December 14, 2016, 11:26:51 PM

Quote from: armedcor on December 14, 2016, 10:15:00 PM
Vermelho and myself were making up our own "PBW" there. Mixing oxyclean with sodium metasilicate. 70:30 ratio. Really does the trick!

Ill give that a go in the new year.

Easiest way I found is buy the 1kg tubs of oxy pour out 300g then top back up to 1kg with sodium meta and give it a good mix. Works great definitely better than just W5

And eh where should one find sodium metasilicate should one be interested in such a thing, for eh experimental research as it looks potentially nasty stuff if not handled properly?
http://www.finishing.com/155/96.shtml

Pretty sure I bought it on ebay but mistral have it as well. AFAIK pbw contains it in about the same ration as well. We're talking 300g in a kg of mix. I use quite a small amount in a gallon of water.

I also wear gloves when cleaning... Which I think everyone should... Even with standard pbw.

How big are the bags of pbw that the brewery's buy and any idea how much.

Quote from: armedcor on December 15, 2016, 09:56:30 AM
...
I also wear gloves when cleaning... Which I think everyone should... Even with standard pbw.

I love these things!
http://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/blichmann-brewing-gloves-medium-p-2998.html

Quote from: Ryan on December 14, 2016, 10:41:16 PM
best being careful with mistral

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17554173

Thats 2012 though and they're still trading so they must have cleaned up their act.  Where were you getting the sodium metasilicate?

Armedcor I assume it was W5 you were mixing with the above?

Quote from: molc on December 15, 2016, 10:42:53 AM
I love these things!
http://www.thehomebrewcompany.ie/blichmann-brewing-gloves-medium-p-2998.html

These are fluffy on the inside aaaaaaahhhhhh
http://beesupplies.ie/product/rubber-gloves/

Quote from: cruiscinlan on December 15, 2016, 11:02:51 AM

Quote from: Ryan on December 14, 2016, 10:41:16 PM
best being careful with mistral

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17554173

Thats 2012 though and they're still trading so they must have cleaned up their act.  Where were you getting the sodium metasilicate?

Armedcor I assume it was W5 you were mixing with the above?

Yep plain ole w5. I've heard people adding in some citric acid as well but I've always just stuck with the w5 and sodium meta

I must give this a lash so. PBW works while cool as well doesn't it?  I've never used it myself but would be interested in trying a better/quicker cleaning agent.

Quote from: cruiscinlan on December 15, 2016, 11:02:51 AM

Quote from: Ryan on December 14, 2016, 10:41:16 PM
best being careful with mistral

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17554173

Thats 2012 though and they're still trading so they must have cleaned up their act.  Where were you getting the sodium metasilicate?

Armedcor I assume it was W5 you were mixing with the above?

You would hope so lol.  don't know what its like inside but the outside looks like a right shithole

Quote from: DEMPSEY on December 15, 2016, 10:27:11 AM
How big are the bags of pbw that the brewery's buy and any idea how much.

Ive seen large 25KG  buckets of pbw in the states for sale up to 50 gallon drums ,dont think we will see any of it over here due the transport cost.
Brewerys that i know of use liquid cleaners, Biocel is a big supplier in the Irish market http://www.biocel.ie/brewery-detergent
Smallest they have is 25L drums, for hombrewing ide prefer to be handeling a powder detergent than anything liquid just for safety.

Is pbw really that expensive for the amount we use? It's a bit like milk in the garage I never look at the price
I'd still like to give the knock off version a go

it's miles cheaper than PBW!  :P

PBW is 13.50 for 450g on the HBC. Pretty sure you'd make around 2kg of the homemade stuff for around the same price...maybe more. Can't remember how much W5 costs off the top of my head :P

W5 is like €3 a tub. I pass through the stuff though, as I use it to clean anything stubborn in the house, brewing or otherwise.

Quote from: armedcor on December 15, 2016, 09:56:30 AM
Pretty sure I bought it on ebay but mistral have it as well. AFAIK pbw contains it in about the same ration as well. We're talking 300g in a kg of mix. I use quite a small amount in a gallon of water.

I also wear gloves when cleaning... Which I think everyone should... Even with standard pbw.

What source did you have for it at all? Mistral at £16.99 for 1kg delivered aren't the Mae West.

Quote from: cruiscinlan on January 10, 2017, 11:42:03 PM

Quote from: armedcor on December 15, 2016, 09:56:30 AM
Pretty sure I bought it on ebay but mistral have it as well. AFAIK pbw contains it in about the same ration as well. We're talking 300g in a kg of mix. I use quite a small amount in a gallon of water.

I also wear gloves when cleaning... Which I think everyone should... Even with standard pbw.

What source did you have for it at all? Mistral at £16.99 for 1kg delivered aren't the Mae West.

Tbh I can't actually remember and I can't find it on my ebay account. I remember it wasn't very expensive. I got a kg and split it with vermelho. That was 2 years ago and I still have enough for one more batch.

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The best deal re price and delivery is 5kg from Mistral for £19.99.

Is anyone interested in getting some as well?

ide plan on getting a bag myself. if someone else in cork wants to go halfes on a bag of sodium metasilicate.

Hi aweisse, I'd take half off you if you decide to go ahead.

thats grand ill order a bag next week

Excellent!

The 5kg has arrived.

I tried out the homemade PBW  today, and it did a fantastic job indeed. I  mixed it with hot water (about 60 C ). It really brightened up the stainless steel.
I used Two W5 scoops to about 30 L  of water.

I mixed 30% sodium metasilicate and 70% W5 by weight.

Glad it worked out for you. Really does the trick!

Quote from: aweisse on February 04, 2017, 05:22:15 PM
I tried out the homemade PBW  today, and it did a fantastic job indeed. I  mixed it with hot water (about 60 C ). It really brightened up the stainless steel.
I used Two W5 scoops to about 30 L  of water.

I mixed 30% sodium metasilicate and 70% W5 by weight.

A success yes?
Did you use it hot/warm/cold? Through pumps etc

When cleaning my old system with the chugger or my grainfather I heat it to about 60 and recirculate. Does the job real well. I think a small addition of citric acid to the mix would be even better. Going to try that next time I make a batch

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Quote from: armedcor on February 07, 2017, 05:15:24 PM
When cleaning my old system with the chugger or my grainfather I heat it to about 60 and recirculate. Does the job real well. I think a small addition of citric acid to the mix would be even better. Going to try that next time I make a batch
Cool...what % citric would you add? I ask cause I'm going to make up a 7kg batch

I remember reading it somewhere but I don't have it off hand I'm afraid. I think It's something minimal like 5% so like 65% 30% 5%

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