National Homebrew Club Ireland

So I've just bought the Bulldog brewer from Homebrewest with 25kg free wheat malt for €100.
Amazing offer, I couldn't pass it up. However, I've always found GEBs recipe builder very handy, and they mill the day grain is dispatched.

Looking at the freshness of crushed grain, it seems a few weeks will result in no issues regards freshly milled, with Briess saying up to 6 months is OK (we'll take that with a grain of salt...).
The only dissenting voices seem to be from homebrewer's who prefer milling the day of but that seems to be a preference rather than a fact that grain noticeably degrades over say 2 weeks. Possibly some confirmation bias going on there

So long story short, people who've moved to milling at home, what are the benefits compared to buying precrushed?
Personally I like the thought of buying ingredients in bulk and being able to understand the crush better with regards to efficiency.

I'm just brewing up my first ever all crushed my self beer right now. So I'll let you know in 3-4 weeks  :P

Personally I think the most important point of getting whole grain is that you can choose your own crush size. It really depends on your system and just getting it all smashed to one universal size in the HBS isn't always the best.

I also like the flexibility of having whole grain. Instead of waiting for a mash kit to arrive you can crush your own grain and get going (requires a stash of grain though!)

It's also cheaper!

It's freshness, plus you can see exactly what you are adding in and the exact quantities.
Fast Food vs Hand Prepared, which tastes best?

You can taste test and check if the grain is crisp when you mill yourself as well. I check all my grain before I mill with a quick chew as sometimes a bag will be stale.

Buy 3 Kg of crushed and use 2 K of it. Then look at the last bit and you find more flour left in the bag. Can effect efficiency as well.

Quote from: CH on January 18, 2017, 01:16:30 PM
It's freshness, plus you can see exactly what you are adding in and the exact quantities.
Fast Food vs Hand Prepared, which tastes best?

From what I've read I just don't think that stands up to the actual rate at which grains degrade once crushed and stored in airtight containers.

Quote from: DEMPSEY on January 18, 2017, 01:38:38 PM
Buy 3 Kg of crushed and use 2 K of it. Then look at the last bit and you find more flour left in the bag. Can effect efficiency as well.

That's a good point though I always order the exact amount I need so the bottom bits always get dumped into the mash tun as well so I wouldn't presume it affected efficiency.

Quote from: cunnol on January 18, 2017, 01:41:08 PM

Quote from: CH on January 18, 2017, 01:16:30 PM
It's freshness, plus you can see exactly what you are adding in and the exact quantities.
Fast Food vs Hand Prepared, which tastes best?

From what I've read I just don't think that stands up to the actual rate at which grains degrade once crushed and stored in airtight containers.

You are reading the wrong stuff
General consensus with crushed is 2-3 months in optimal storage conditions, they oxidise absorb moisture and are light sensitive so cool room in dark or fridge and vac packed.
http://beersmith.com/blog/2014/02/08/storing-your-beer-brewing-hops-grains-and-yeast/
If I haven't used my base whole in 6-8 months I chuck it now same with speciality.

Quote from: CH on January 18, 2017, 02:27:41 PM

Quote from: cunnol on January 18, 2017, 01:41:08 PM

Quote from: CH on January 18, 2017, 01:16:30 PM
It's freshness, plus you can see exactly what you are adding in and the exact quantities.
Fast Food vs Hand Prepared, which tastes best?

From what I've read I just don't think that stands up to the actual rate at which grains degrade once crushed and stored in airtight containers.

You are reading the wrong stuff
General consensus with crushed is 2-3 months in optimal storage conditions, they oxidise absorb moisture and are light sensitive so cool room in dark or fridge and vac packed.
http://beersmith.com/blog/2014/02/08/storing-your-beer-brewing-hops-grains-and-yeast/
If I haven't used my base whole in 6-8 months I chuck it now same with speciality.

2-3 months? Ah sure I was only taking about brewing with them say two weeks post crush and the fact some home brewers look down on this saying there's a definite drop in quality of the final product.

Would you measure your crush width or just go by the look of the grains? Don't currently have anything to measure terribly well with and am loathe to spend yet more money

Ah two weeks is nothing, I've seen fellas use 6 month old and it's stale and made shit beer
credit card is a rough gauge
You just want to husk to remain intact and not shredded and the Kernal to have popped out, a very very small amount of water (not damp your mill will clog and rust)15 mins beforehand will help the process and don't whizz your drill as it will shred everything
Variable drills are best

I did the credit card thing with mine yesterday and it'd crushed up nicely, good crush but with plenty of husk left. Seemed similar to HBCs crush I thought.

Nice idea, thanks for the advice lads

I use a variable drill with a clamp start it and then introduce grains, I get more consistent crush as I'm not revving
I also give the specialty grain a good mix through so I don't have pockets of it in the mash

https://vimeo.com/159336600

That's a cracking homemade setup, fair play. Do you condition your grains before milling? Think I'll do that, seems to be a pre requisite for a lot of ppl.

I have a 3 roller so not much escapes, when I remember I do but the way I do it is rinse out the builders bucket I use and just pour off the excess water, so it's only the water on the sides and a tiny tiny pool in the bottom,  a really good mix and leave it there 15-20 mins.
Sides and base are dry when I pour as water absorbed onto surface of grain

CH, what's the model of the drill?

Dewalt, 18v from b&q I think it was 180 when I bought it couple of years ago but cheaper now, most modern drills have variable trigger speeds now

Doing a brew later tonight and I thought I'd share pics of cracked grain as I know there have been loads of efficiency and mill setting questions recently.
In my book the the objective is to pop the kernel out of the husk and still have to husk intact to form a filter bed. Getting the setting right can be tricky especially if you are using different grains. I didn't moisten this one like previous ones, even though I get a good result, as It gunks up the mill and I am also wary of moisture. I have a 3 roller mill and here's where I'm at with pilsner malt in these pics.

Sorry about size of image Will but needed to illustrate the detail.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170317/6cf9b858d7609eebf2ec7738a09692ee.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170317/32016e73c841d9a70a4e526b4246cc3d.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170317/6281f77c7e90650ac5bcdda37961b43a.jpg)

Good crush allows lovely grain bed for Herms and nice clear wort, this was mashing out

https://vimeo.com/208927771

CH, Is that the cip head submerged I the mash

Quote from: CH on March 18, 2017, 01:56:58 AM
Good crush allows lovely grain bed for Herms and nice clear wort, this was mashing out

Aha, I was wondering why it was taking longer to clear my beer lately, bet thats it.

Quote from: darren996 on March 18, 2017, 07:25:31 PM
CH, Is that the cip head submerged I the mash

It's set at that level to disperse across the top, even though I know HSA is a myth for homebrewing!

Quote from: Qs on March 18, 2017, 08:07:36 PM

Quote from: CH on March 18, 2017, 01:56:58 AM
Good crush allows lovely grain bed for Herms and nice clear wort, this was mashing out

Aha, I was wondering why it was taking longer to clear my beer lately, bet thats it.

I'm using rice hulls also all the time now where there is a significant portion of wheat in the recipe.

Cheers,  I finally got of me ass and bought one

Sorry mine is a design I got from a guy off Jim's and resembles a wort aerator rather than cip.
I'd recommend you block some of the holes on a cip to allow wort to travel across the top of the surface of your grain

Plansifter Analysis is an important aspect of professional milling. It uses a series of different sieves stacked in a tower. The tower is shaken by a motor for generally two minutes. The top sieve is the most coarse and retains the husk material. The sieves become finer as you move towards the bottom. These collect coarse grits, fine grits and flour. The original sample of grist is weighed, and then it is possible to calculate the percentage of each component by weighing the contents of each relative sieve separately. The volume of the top sieve is also recorded. With these results it is possible to predict issues with run off time and extract efficiencies.
Here's a link to save me some typing
http://beerandwinejournal.com/malt-sieves/

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Quote from: CH on March 18, 2017, 11:01:23 PM

Quote from: Qs on March 18, 2017, 08:07:36 PM

Quote from: CH on March 18, 2017, 01:56:58 AM
Good crush allows lovely grain bed for Herms and nice clear wort, this was mashing out

Aha, I was wondering why it was taking longer to clear my beer lately, bet thats it.

I'm using rice hulls also all the time now where there is a significant portion of wheat in the recipe.

When I was only milling my speciality grains even wheat didn't prove a problem. Fining with gelatin was turning out super bright beer as quick as I could carb it, even with a tin of oats in it was still bright going into the keg. Now its taking more than a week. Problem started exactly when I started crushing all my own grain (previously I just did speciality in a corona mill). I think I'll throw some hulls in rather than adjust my crush and see if that works. I have my efficiency dialled in and don't want to change it again.

I think people have already mostly covered the benefits: cost savings from buying whole sacks of grain, freshness, and control over the crush. 

For me, the other benefit is being able to "malt condition" (spray 2% water by weight over the husks and let it soak in for a few hours) -this lets me set the crush tight while still keeping the husks intact to avoid tannin extraction.  -Particularly important for light styles like Kolsch, Helles, etc...   -There's no way a home brew store is going to let you wet a bunch of grain and run it through their mill.


Now that my mill has been motorized and installed into a permanent cart (Ikea kitchen cart hacked a bit), it's the most reliable and simple thing to use, too; really doesn't add any extra time to my brew day and doesn't introduce dust, either with my gamma seal bucket solution for catching the crushed grain.

https://www.facebook.com/adamindublin/videos/10154148839526929/?l=3068610855969354772 (https://www.facebook.com/adamindublin/videos/10154148839526929/?l=3068610855969354772)


Adam